We have been pondering on how to tackle the problem of keeping the
barn dry (to make it habitable) The back wall is built into the
hillside, a small road runs behind it about 1.5m above floor level.
The hillside is clay and during the winter or in wet periods water
seeps through the walls and spreads over the barn floor. We have
discounted digging a deep trench behind the wall, as the road is in
constant use and it might cause a collapse. Latest idea is to dig a
channel around the inside base of the walls, erect an inner wall and
fill the space between with gravel to allow the water to seep through
and then flow along the channel and we'll drill a hole for a pipe
through the wall each down hill end of the barn, and lay a pipe to a
soakaway. Would this work?

It happens that Catherine Davis formulated :
We have been pondering on how to tackle the problem of keeping the
barn dry (to make it habitable) The back wall is built into the
hillside, a small road runs behind it about 1.5m above floor level.
The hillside is clay and during the winter or in wet periods water
seeps through the walls and spreads over the barn floor. We have
discounted digging a deep trench behind the wall, as the road is in
constant use and it might cause a collapse. Latest idea is to dig a
channel around the inside base of the walls, erect an inner wall and
fill the space between with gravel to allow the water to seep through
and then flow along the channel and we'll drill a hole for a pipe
through the wall each down hill end of the barn, and lay a pipe to a
soakaway. Would this work?

Something similar....

Floor was good solid concrete and some 3x3 galv angle iron was bolted
down to a sealant on the the floor, all the way around the wall edges
leaving a gap between angle and wall. The water ran to a sump, from
where it was pumped out. Filling a channel with gravel, could mean the
gravel might tend to choke up with sediment.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On 13 Nov, 17:22, Catherine Davis wrote:

Latest idea is to dig a
channel around the inside base of the walls, erect an inner wall and
fill the space between with gravel to allow the water to seep through
and then flow along the channel and we'll drill a hole for a pipe
through the wall each down hill end of the barn, and lay a pipe to a
soakaway. Would this work?

Should do - sounds exactly like my house... are you thinking of making
an offer :)))

ours has a block interior wall creating a large cavity wall if you
will (you can get in it at a squeeze) at GF level.
At it's base is a formed concrete channel (below the "working"
concrete floor (& DPM) level in the rest of the GF)
Excess water that permeates thru is collected and drains away along
the channel into a convenient drain thence out to a soakaway.

One possible snag is how to effectively "tank" the exterior face of
the new interior block wall (if you see what I mean) - If space is
tight (how big is the barn and can you spare the space for blockwall
and cavity?) how will you tank it effectively? Suppose a "curtain" of
thick polythene dangling from the top of the new inner wall could
direct any more severe water penetration down into the channel but in
say a narrow cavity how will you ensure it is straight /gets to the
vertcial level where it will be needed......

In any case I wouldn't fill such a cavity with anything otherwise you
may find it bungs up in the future....or bridges damp across from day
one...

Cheers
JimK

I would have thought tanking is better.

Apply tanking sheet to the wall & floor.
Tanking sheet is a thick plastic sheet with deep dimples which raise
the sheet off the wall. It is fixed by plastic plugs with integral
seals so as to not create a point of weakness re damp penetration.

Pump is fitted.
Pump is fitted at the lowest point with a float switch which pumps
away water as necessary.

I'm not sure how you fit them to rough wall surfaces.


I assume this is not living (sleeping) accommodation because BR apply
and they can be onerous - like is the barn wall that backs onto the
road properly supported, re foundations and capable of withstanding
the road. Underpinning is an exercise in mixing a lot of bags of
concrete to fill a block a few feet wide at a time (some builders
prefer to dig the trench in one go - and promptly fill it with the
original building... just imagine if programmers did Civ Eng... Now
why did it do that... :-)

On 13 Nov, 19:25, "js.b1" wrote:
I would have thought tanking is better.

Apply tanking sheet to the wall & floor.
Tanking sheet is a thick plastic sheet with deep dimples which raise
the sheet off the wall. It is fixed by plastic plugs with integral
seals so as to not create a point of weakness re damp penetration.

Pump is fitted.
Pump is fitted at the lowest point with a float switch which pumps
away water as necessary.

I'm not sure how you fit them to rough wall surfaces.

yes another possible method - should be lots on uk.diy if messrs
Google's search is operational....

http://www.sovchem.co.uk/ has some stuff but I've never used it and
can't recommend.


I assume this is not living (sleeping) accommodation because BR apply
and they can be onerous - like is the barn wall that backs onto the
road properly supported, re foundations and capable of withstanding
the road. Underpinning is an exercise in mixing a lot of bags of
concrete to fill a block a few feet wide at a time (some builders
prefer to dig the trench in one go - and promptly fill it with the
original building... just imagine if programmers did Civ Eng... Now
why did it do that... :-)


how far can BCOs "insist" -after all it's existant i.e. it *is*
already potentially holding the road up and we are talking of creating
a drier area inside of it without necessarily touching it..??

JimK

On 13 Nov, 19:44, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:
It happens that Catherine Davis formulated :

We have been pondering on how to tackle the problem of keeping the
barn dry (to make it habitable) The back wall is built into the
hillside, a small road runs behind it about 1.5m above floor level.
The hillside is clay and during the winter or in wet periods water
seeps through the walls and spreads over the barn floor. We have
discounted digging a deep trench behind the wall, as the road is in
constant use and it might cause a collapse. Latest idea is to dig a
channel around the inside base of the walls, erect an inner wall and
fill the space between with gravel to allow the water to seep through
and then flow along the channel and we'll drill a hole for a pipe
through the wall each down hill end of the barn, and lay a pipe to a
soakaway. Would this work?

Something similar....

Floor was good solid concrete and some 3x3 galv angle iron was bolted
down to a sealant on the the floor, all the way around the wall edges
leaving a gap between angle and wall. The water ran to a sump, from
where it was pumped out. Filling a channel with gravel, could mean the
gravel might tend to choke up with sediment.

--
Regards,
* * * * Harry (M1BYT) (L)http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

thanks, I realise now I don't need gravel in the cavity.

On 13 Nov, 20:12, JimK wrote:
On 13 Nov, 17:22, Catherine Davis wrote:

Latest idea is to dig a
channel around the inside base of the walls, erect an inner wall and
fill the space between with gravel to allow the water to seep through
and then flow along the channel and we'll drill a hole for a pipe
through the wall each down hill end of the barn, and lay a pipe to a
soakaway. Would this work?

Should do - sounds exactly like my house... are you thinking of making
an offer :)))

ours has a block interior wall creating a large cavity wall if you
will (you can get in it at a squeeze) at GF level.
At it's base is a formed concrete channel (below the "working"
concrete floor (& DPM) level in the rest of the GF)
Excess water that permeates thru is collected and drains away along
the channel into a convenient drain thence out to a soakaway.

One possible snag is how to effectively "tank" the exterior face of
the new interior block wall (if you see what I mean) - If space is
tight (how big is the barn and can you spare the space for *blockwall
and cavity?) how will you tank it effectively? Suppose a "curtain" of
thick polythene dangling from the top of the new inner wall could
direct any more severe water penetration down into the channel but in
say a narrow cavity how will you ensure it is straight /gets to the
vertcial level where it will be needed......

In any case I wouldn't fill such a cavity with anything otherwise you
may find it bungs up in the future....or bridges damp across from day
one...

Cheers
JimK

Thanks for the reply. what gap would you recommend? I don't think I'd
need to waterproof the exterior of the inner wall, it is a very slow
trickle even on the wettest days, hopefully the water would run down
the inside of the exterior wall, into the channel and through the wall
via a pipe to the soakaway

Thanks for the reply. what gap would you recommend? I don't think I'd
need to waterproof the exterior of the inner wall, it is a very slow
trickle even on the wettest days, hopefully the water would run down
the inside of the exterior wall, into the channel and through the wall
via a pipe to the soakaway

how would you clear it if a dead rat blocked it?
a jet of water?

[g]

On 13 Nov, 20:22, Catherine Davis wrote:
On 13 Nov, 20:12, JimK wrote:



On 13 Nov, 17:22, Catherine Davis wrote:

Latest idea is to dig a
channel around the inside base of the walls, erect an inner wall and
fill the space between with gravel to allow the water to seep through
and then flow along the channel and we'll drill a hole for a pipe
through the wall each down hill end of the barn, and lay a pipe to a
soakaway. Would this work?

Should do - sounds exactly like my house... are you thinking of making
an offer :)))

ours has a block interior wall creating a large cavity wall if you
will (you can get in it at a squeeze) at GF level.
At it's base is a formed concrete channel (below the "working"
concrete floor (& DPM) level in the rest of the GF)
Excess water that permeates thru is collected and drains away along
the channel into a convenient drain thence out to a soakaway.

One possible snag is how to effectively "tank" the exterior face of
the new interior block wall (if you see what I mean) - If space is
tight (how big is the barn and can you spare the space for blockwall
and cavity?) how will you tank it effectively? Suppose a "curtain" of
thick polythene dangling from the top of the new inner wall could
direct any more severe water penetration down into the channel but in
say a narrow cavity how will you ensure it is straight /gets to the
vertcial level where it will be needed......

In any case I wouldn't fill such a cavity with anything otherwise you
may find it bungs up in the future....or bridges damp across from day
one...

Cheers
JimK

Thanks for the reply. what gap would you recommend? I don't think I'd
need to waterproof the exterior of the inner wall, it is a very slow
trickle even on the wettest days, hopefully the water would run down
the inside of the exterior wall, into the channel and through the wall
via a pipe to the soakaway

10,000,000 Euro question... do youmake it big enough to squeeze into
if the worst should happen or as small as poss to save interior space
(a la membrane tanking described earlier)?

NB we've never had a dead rat in ours - why would they be interested?
no food, no warm habitat? nah you'll be alright in that regard I
reckon- make the drain a big 4" interceptor "U bend" jobby and it'll
take a lot to bung it up, access to the drain would be an advantage
for worst case scenarios tho... you don;t want to be ripping whole
(wet) walls down to unblock drains.....

JimK

What condition is the barn in, and size?

Existing:
- You have a rear wall which is leaking, tight against road,
supporting said road to 1.5m into the ground.

Solution-1:
- You tank, drain, line whatever the barn

Solution-2:
- Abandon the rear wall as a road-supporting wet wall
- Remove 1m of the sides against that rear wall
- Remove the roof
- Rebuild 1m of new sides at the front wall
- Refit the roof

By remove & rebuild I mean just that - you re-use everything except
new mortar & new roofing nails n sarking felt.

It depends on what condition the barn is in re roof, walls,
foundations etc. Some barns as you probably know are built directly
onto the ground - any concrete being a poured floor within that area
for cows, or whatever :-) Some barns are little better than random
pile of rubble with corrugated iron roof complete with more
ventilation holes than the night sky has stars.

Just consider every option - even the seeming most extreme.

Catherine Davis wrote:
We have been pondering on how to tackle the problem of keeping the
barn dry (to make it habitable) The back wall is built into the
hillside, a small road runs behind it about 1.5m above floor level.
The hillside is clay and during the winter or in wet periods water
seeps through the walls and spreads over the barn floor. We have
discounted digging a deep trench behind the wall, as the road is in
constant use and it might cause a collapse. Latest idea is to dig a
channel around the inside base of the walls, erect an inner wall and
fill the space between with gravel to allow the water to seep through
and then flow along the channel and we'll drill a hole for a pipe
through the wall each down hill end of the barn, and lay a pipe to a
soakaway. Would this work?

Probably not.

What you need to do is simple. Build an inner shell that IS
waterproofed, and insulated against the earth soil and water.

So you might tank the wall and floor with waterproof mortar or DPM, or
probably both , and then build an inner leaf wall BEHIND the DPM and
fill the gap with insulation. And lay down insulation and build a new floor.

JimK wrote:
On 13 Nov, 19:25, "js.b1" wrote:
I would have thought tanking is better.

Apply tanking sheet to the wall & floor.
Tanking sheet is a thick plastic sheet with deep dimples which raise
the sheet off the wall. It is fixed by plastic plugs with integral
seals so as to not create a point of weakness re damp penetration.

Pump is fitted.
Pump is fitted at the lowest point with a float switch which pumps
away water as necessary.

I'm not sure how you fit them to rough wall surfaces.

yes another possible method - should be lots on uk.diy if messrs
Google's search is operational....

http://www.sovchem.co.uk/ has some stuff but I've never used it and
can't recommend.

I assume this is not living (sleeping) accommodation because BR apply
and they can be onerous - like is the barn wall that backs onto the
road properly supported, re foundations and capable of withstanding
the road. Underpinning is an exercise in mixing a lot of bags of
concrete to fill a block a few feet wide at a time (some builders
prefer to dig the trench in one go - and promptly fill it with the
original building... just imagine if programmers did Civ Eng... Now
why did it do that... :-)


how far can BCOs "insist" -after all it's existant i.e. it *is*
already potentially holding the road up and we are talking of creating
a drier area inside of it without necessarily touching it..??


I think they can, in the ultimate analsyis , declare it as unfit, or
unsafe for human habitation. Or Elfin safety can.

Wasnt there a case of a cottage lived in for years, with water fed from
a stream and no electricity and no mains drainage? then something
triggered the authorities, and they told the occupant that they couldn't
live there as it wasnt fit for inhabitation, despite it having been that
way for 35 years or something?



JimK

On 13 Nov, 23:16, JimK wrote:
On 13 Nov, 20:22, Catherine Davis wrote:





On 13 Nov, 20:12, JimK wrote:

On 13 Nov, 17:22, Catherine Davis wrote:

Latest idea is to dig a
channel around the inside base of the walls, erect an inner wall and
fill the space between with gravel to allow the water to seep through
and then flow along the channel and we'll drill a hole for a pipe
through the wall each down hill end of the barn, and lay a pipe to a
soakaway. Would this work?

Should do - sounds exactly like my house... are you thinking of making
an offer :)))

ours has a block interior wall creating a large cavity wall if you
will (you can get in it at a squeeze) at GF level.
At it's base is a formed concrete channel (below the "working"
concrete floor (& DPM) level in the rest of the GF)
Excess water that permeates thru is collected and drains away along
the channel into a convenient drain thence out to a soakaway.

One possible snag is how to effectively "tank" the exterior face of
the new interior block wall (if you see what I mean) - If space is
tight (how big is the barn and can you spare the space for *blockwall
and cavity?) how will you tank it effectively? Suppose a "curtain" of
thick polythene dangling from the top of the new inner wall could
direct any more severe water penetration down into the channel but in
say a narrow cavity how will you ensure it is straight /gets to the
vertcial level where it will be needed......

In any case I wouldn't fill such a cavity with anything otherwise you
may find it bungs up in the future....or bridges damp across from day
one...

Cheers
JimK

Thanks *for the reply. what gap would you recommend? I don't think I'd
need to waterproof the exterior of the inner wall, it is a very slow
trickle even on the wettest days, hopefully the water would run down
the inside of the exterior wall, into the channel and through the wall
via a pipe to the soakaway

10,000,000 Euro question... do youmake it big enough to squeeze into
if the worst should happen or as small as poss to save interior space
(a la membrane tanking described earlier)?

NB we've never had a dead rat in ours - why would they be interested?
no food, no warm habitat? nah you'll be alright in that regard I
reckon- make the drain a big 4" interceptor "U bend" jobby and it'll
take a lot to bung it up, access to the drain would be an advantage
for worst case scenarios tho... you don;t want to be ripping whole
(wet) walls down to unblock drains.....

JimK

Thanks Jim I think I understand a bit better about the membrane, ie
it's structured so water flows down behind it. I would need a block
wall though, because I need it to support a mezzanine floor and the
joists running the width of the barn might be too long. I could
perhaps put a hatch in somewhere in the interior wall to enable
inspection, for rats, collapse etc

On 14 Nov, 08:56, Owain wrote:
On 14 Nov, 01:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I think they can, in the ultimate analsyis , declare it as unfit, or
unsafe for human habitation. Or Elfin safety can.

Environmental Health can condemn as unfit for habitation
Building Control can condemn as structurally unsafe

(AIAUI)

Wasnt there a case of a cottage lived in for years, with water fed from
a stream and no electricity and no mains drainage? then something
triggered the authorities, and they told the occupant that they couldn't
live there as it wasnt fit for inhabitation, despite it having been that
way for 35 years or something?

private water - okay if tested and shown to be potable
private drains - okay if meets environment regulations
no electricity - private supply or gas lighting okay. Current building
regs require fixed lighting and heating installation, but AIUI plumbed-
in gas lighting still meets that requirement.

Owain

but current Bregs apply in the main to *new* dwellings? they couldn;t
seriously retrospectively force some old hermit in a croft on shetland
(or local equivalent) to "as of now" install all that instead of a
peat fire and tilly lanterns - could they? on what basis?

JimK

On 14 Nov, 17:40, Catherine Davis wrote:
On 13 Nov, 23:16, JimK wrote:



On 13 Nov, 20:22, Catherine Davis wrote:

On 13 Nov, 20:12, JimK wrote:

On 13 Nov, 17:22, Catherine Davis wrote:

Latest idea is to dig a
channel around the inside base of the walls, erect an inner wall and
fill the space between with gravel to allow the water to seep through
and then flow along the channel and we'll drill a hole for a pipe
through the wall each down hill end of the barn, and lay a pipe to a
soakaway. Would this work?

Should do - sounds exactly like my house... are you thinking of making
an offer :)))

ours has a block interior wall creating a large cavity wall if you
will (you can get in it at a squeeze) at GF level.
At it's base is a formed concrete channel (below the "working"
concrete floor (& DPM) level in the rest of the GF)
Excess water that permeates thru is collected and drains away along
the channel into a convenient drain thence out to a soakaway.

One possible snag is how to effectively "tank" the exterior face of
the new interior block wall (if you see what I mean) - If space is
tight (how big is the barn and can you spare the space for blockwall
and cavity?) how will you tank it effectively? Suppose a "curtain" of
thick polythene dangling from the top of the new inner wall could
direct any more severe water penetration down into the channel but in
say a narrow cavity how will you ensure it is straight /gets to the
vertcial level where it will be needed......

In any case I wouldn't fill such a cavity with anything otherwise you
may find it bungs up in the future....or bridges damp across from day
one...

Cheers
JimK

Thanks for the reply. what gap would you recommend? I don't think I'd
need to waterproof the exterior of the inner wall, it is a very slow
trickle even on the wettest days, hopefully the water would run down
the inside of the exterior wall, into the channel and through the wall
via a pipe to the soakaway

10,000,000 Euro question... do youmake it big enough to squeeze into
if the worst should happen or as small as poss to save interior space
(a la membrane tanking described earlier)?

NB we've never had a dead rat in ours - why would they be interested?
no food, no warm habitat? nah you'll be alright in that regard I
reckon- make the drain a big 4" interceptor "U bend" jobby and it'll
take a lot to bung it up, access to the drain would be an advantage
for worst case scenarios tho... you don;t want to be ripping whole
(wet) walls down to unblock drains.....

JimK

Thanks Jim I think I understand a bit better about the membrane, ie
it's structured so water flows down behind it. I would need a block
wall though, because I need it to support a mezzanine floor and the
joists running the width of the barn might be too long. I could
perhaps put a hatch in somewhere in the interior wall to enable
inspection, for rats, collapse etc

yes we have a "hatch" affair to get in our "cavity" near the exit
drain (that also takes the kitchen sink, dishwasher, wash machine etc)
Never had an issue with it yet apart from woodworm in the hatch! (all
this built before my time here)....

Suppose you could look at the best of both worlds - membrane idea for
most of the width of the wall leading ingress down to a (below DPC
level) gully with a fall across to a drain. Where the drain is
located, make the cavity bigger so you could get in with a rod or two
if the worst happens??

JimK

On 14 Nov, 01:22, "js.b1" wrote:
What condition is the barn in, and size?

Existing:
- You have a rear wall which is leaking, tight against road,
supporting said road to 1.5m into the ground.

Solution-1:
- You tank, drain, line whatever the barn

Solution-2:
- Abandon the rear wall as a road-supporting wet wall
- Remove 1m of the sides against that rear wall
- Remove the roof
- Rebuild 1m of new sides at the front wall
- Refit the roof

By remove & rebuild I mean just that - you re-use everything except
new mortar & new roofing nails n sarking felt.

It depends on what condition the barn is in re roof, walls,
foundations etc. Some barns as you probably know are built directly
onto the ground - any concrete being a poured floor within that area
for cows, or whatever :-) Some barns are little better than random
pile of rubble with corrugated iron roof complete with more
ventilation holes than the night sky has stars.

Just consider every option - even the seeming most extreme.

Barn is 7m * 5m. It is 200 years old. There is a 2m wall above road
level, supported by the clay hillside. We have replaced the roof tiles
and rotten rafters added gutters and the roof is now watertight. I
want to keep as much floor area as possible. Need an inner block wall
to support a mezzanine. My father is helping with the engineering and
plans, but he is nearly 90 and not very up to date with new methods,
but has a vested interest as he will live in it. I think the concrete
is laid on the ground..our nearby house has no foundations and floor
tiles laid on the ground with very little in between, but apart from
the glaze coming off the newer tiles it isn't a problem. I will put
the block interior wall on the existing concrete floor. Is this
sensible? It will support the joists holding up the mezzanine. It is a
barn worth doing something with as unlike most of the barns in the
area which are constructed of sun baked mud bricks, and half
collapsed, the lateral walls of this one are 60m and have a high
proportion of stone, which is why, like the house, it is still
standing.

On 14 Nov, 09:56, Owain wrote:
On 14 Nov, 01:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I think they can, in the ultimate analsyis , declare it as unfit, or
unsafe for human habitation. Or Elfin safety can.

Environmental Health can condemn as unfit for habitation
Building Control can condemn as structurally unsafe

(AIAUI)

Wasnt there a case of a cottage lived in for years, with water fed from
a stream and no electricity and no mains drainage? then something
triggered the authorities, and they told the occupant that they couldn't
live there as it wasnt fit for inhabitation, despite it having been that
way for 35 years or something?

private water - okay if tested and shown to be potable
private drains - okay if meets environment regulations
no electricity - private supply or gas lighting okay. Current building
regs require fixed lighting and heating installation, but AIUI plumbed-
in gas lighting still meets that requirement.

Owain

Here in France the rules are very strict for new work done, all
building works done by a registered builder carry a 10 year guarantee,
but there is no interest taken in living conditions in old houses,
there is still no legal requirement to have a septic tank!... (but we
have one)

On Nov 14, 6:27*pm, Catherine Davis wrote:
Here in France the rules are very strict for new work done, all
building works done by a registered builder carry a 10 year guarantee,
but there is no interest taken in living conditions in old houses,
there is still no legal requirement to have a septic tank!... (but we
have one)

Ah, it is France?

Self-build is not subject to regulations surely in France?

On 14 Nov, 19:39, "js.b1" wrote:
On Nov 14, 6:27*pm, Catherine Davis wrote:

Here in France the rules are very strict for new work done, all
building works done by a registered builder carry a 10 year guarantee,
but there is no interest taken in living conditions in old houses,
there is still no legal requirement to have a septic tank!... (but we
have one)

Ah, it is France?

Self-build is not subject to regulations surely in France?

we are not changing the outside structure, and the barn is less than
75m2 so do not have to submit plans for approval, but I will check
with my builder to see if he can do a stress test. He is doing the
block walls and we will do everything else.

On 14 Nov, 18:51, Catherine Davis wrote:
On 14 Nov, 19:39, "js.b1" wrote:

On Nov 14, 6:27 pm, Catherine Davis wrote:

Here in France the rules are very strict for new work done, all
building works done by a registered builder carry a 10 year guarantee,
but there is no interest taken in living conditions in old houses,
there is still no legal requirement to have a septic tank!... (but we
have one)

Ah, it is France?

Self-build is not subject to regulations surely in France?

we are not changing the outside structure, and the barn is less than
75m2 so do not have to submit plans for approval, but I will check
with my builder to see if he can do a stress test. He is doing the
block walls and we will do everything else.

Spose only real way forward is to sample dig that concrete floor to
see whether it is worth building off or whether it's just a "smear" of
concrete to make "la merde de vache" easier to shovel.....

Bonne Chance _ now we know where we are!!

JimK

On 14 Nov, 20:11, JimK wrote:
On 14 Nov, 18:51, Catherine Davis wrote:





On 14 Nov, 19:39, "js.b1" wrote:

On Nov 14, 6:27 pm, Catherine Davis wrote:

Here in France the rules are very strict for new work done, all
building works done by a registered builder carry a 10 year guarantee,
but there is no interest taken in living conditions in old houses,
there is still no legal requirement to have a septic tank!... (but we
have one)

Ah, it is France?

Self-build is not subject to regulations surely in France?

we are not changing the outside structure, and the barn is less than
75m2 so do not have to submit plans for approval, but I will check
with my builder to see if he can do a stress test. He is doing the
block walls and we will do everything else.

Spose only real way forward is to sample dig that concrete floor to
see whether it is worth building off or whether it's just a "smear" of
concrete to make "la merde de vache" easier to shovel.....

Bonne Chance _ now we know where we are!!

JimK

thanks to everyone for their suggestions, I feel better equipped to
tackle it now.

[Default] On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:35:35 -0800 (PST), a certain
chimpanzee, JimK , randomly hit the keyboard
and wrote:

how far can BCOs "insist" -after all it's existant i.e. it *is*
already potentially holding the road up and we are talking of creating
a drier area inside of it without necessarily touching it..??

BCOs can't insist at all (unless it's a conversion to a public
building). For a change of use to a dwelling, Part A (Structure) only
applies to the actual work you carry out, and making sure that what
you do doesn't make the building less compliant than before you
started.

To the OP; either a tanking membrane (such as a Newton membrane), or a
cementicious waterproof render (such as Vandex) will be required for
any formal conversion.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have I strayed"?

On 19 Nov, 20:32, Hugo Nebula abuse@localhost wrote:
[Default] On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:35:35 -0800 (PST), a certain
chimpanzee, JimK , randomly hit the keyboard

and wrote:
how far can BCOs "insist" -after all it's existant i.e. it *is*
already potentially holding the road up and we are talking of creating
a drier area inside of it without necessarily touching it..??

BCOs can't insist at all (unless it's a conversion to a public
building). For a change of use to a dwelling, Part A (Structure) only
applies to the actual work you carry out, and making sure that what
you do doesn't make the building less compliant than before you
started.

To the OP; either a tanking membrane (such as a Newton membrane), or a
cementicious waterproof render (such as Vandex) will be required for
any formal conversion.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have I strayed"?

thanks for clarifying Hugo - much appreciated.
JimK