"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .

Taking much more difficult positions over nitwits who think a
religion allows them to breed like bugs is never going to happen.

This one need tagging. What a pervo!

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"John Rumm" wrote in message
news
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"js.b1" wrote in message
...
On Nov 11, 2:56 pm, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:
I would tend to go for double-pole RCBOs on all circuits.

Good way of ending with a mile-long CU & higher cost.


And greater protection and the lot not tripping out only that
circuit.

Single pole RCBO devices would offer the same level of fault
protection

That is total drivel.

I can only assume

Some device that isolates the L & N when it activates must offer a
higher level of safety.

No, this is an area where you can't generalise without knowing the
specifics. Firstly you are confusing fault protection with some nebulous
concept of "safety".

I am not. If the device activates and cuts out all electricity conductors
(L&N) it must by definition be safer. In fact if the earth is isolated
even better, then all electrical conductors are isolated from the
appliance or circuit.

No.

Only the live and neutral are the electrical (phase) conductors. The earth
is a circuit protective conductor. The earth connection does it's job
properly by not having it's circuit broken.

You would not want for example a lump of metal such as a combi boiler and
it's copper pipework to have all it's live, neutral and earth connections
isolated when you turn the power off to it.

That would mean that a fault elsewhere, such as a live cable from another
circuit touching a copper pipe would make the combi and it's pipework rise
up to 230V.

Adam

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"Owain" wrote in message
...
On 12 Nov, 22:37, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
A radial with only 8 sockets on it, maximum, and rated to 16A is safer
when
abused.

But absolutely useless for practical purposes. We'd end up like the
Americans, having to work out which combinations of sockets and
appliances don't trip anything.

When a wire becomes loose in a ring it is difficult to trace. As it is fed
from two ends. It could mean one section of cable in the ring is cooking
as the other section is isolated because of a wire coming loose.

It is not that difficult to trace if you have the experience and equipment.

If daisy chained sockets on a radial, and one has loose wire those
downstream will not operate. On a ring all appears fine until a high
current appliance is connected.

What happens if it is the earth terminal that is loose?

I didn't think ring abuse was that widespread so as to be a problem.

Ring abuse is widespread.

It is in the Catholic church.

Adam

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"Owain" wrote in message
...
On 12 Nov, 22:37, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
A radial with only 8 sockets on it, maximum, and rated to 16A is safer
when
abused.

But absolutely useless for practical purposes. We'd end up like the
Americans, having to work out which combinations of sockets and
appliances don't trip anything.

When a wire becomes loose in a ring it is difficult to trace. As it is
fed from two ends. It could mean one section of cable in the ring is
cooking as the other section is isolated because of a wire coming loose.

It is not that difficult to trace if you have the experience and
equipment.

Missed the point. It can be there undetected and home owner thinks all is
fine, switches on a few the 3kW fires and the cable is cooked.and then a
fire. On radial if a socket does not work then the alarm bell rings.

If daisy chained sockets on a radial, and one has loose wire those
downstream will not operate. On a ring all appears fine until a high
current appliance is connected.

What happens if it is the earth terminal that is loose?

Safety is impaired. You can use 4 core cable and have an earth returning
from the last socket. Or an earth wire back from the end socket.

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
. ..

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"John Rumm" wrote in message
news
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"js.b1" wrote in message
...
On Nov 11, 2:56 pm, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:
I would tend to go for double-pole RCBOs on all circuits.

Good way of ending with a mile-long CU & higher cost.


And greater protection and the lot not tripping out only that
circuit.

Single pole RCBO devices would offer the same level of fault
protection

That is total drivel.

I can only assume

Some device that isolates the L & N when it activates must offer a
higher level of safety.

No, this is an area where you can't generalise without knowing the
specifics. Firstly you are confusing fault protection with some nebulous
concept of "safety".

I am not. If the device activates and cuts out all electricity conductors
(L&N) it must by definition be safer. In fact if the earth is isolated
even better, then all electrical conductors are isolated from the
appliance or circuit.

No.

Only the live and neutral are the electrical (phase) conductors. The earth
is a circuit protective conductor. The earth connection does it's job
properly by not having it's circuit broken.

I know what the earth is for. If in a safety situation a device trips and
E,N & L are isolate it is the ultimate safety. Why because the earth could
be live from a fault elsewhere. isolating all three is the ultimate..

You would not want for example a lump of metal such as a combi boiler and
it's copper pipework to have all it's live, neutral and earth connections
isolated when you turn the power off to it.

Why not? If all three are isolated there is no problem.

That would mean that a fault elsewhere, such as a live cable from another
circuit touching a copper pipe would make the combi and it's pipework rise
up to 230V.

Being to earth, via pipes, the combi protects itself.

Doctor Drivel
wibbled on Friday 13 November 2009 12:58


You lack common sense. I woudl let you near my house. There again I do all
my own.

I thought your "house" had wall to wall cushions?

;-

--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

Doctor Drivel
wibbled on Friday 13 November 2009 13:10


Ring abuse is widespread. I have noticed square 3-pin plugs with no fuses
being sold (prob illegally).

Definitely illegally.

It's hardly much safer on a 20A or 16A radial - or are you proposing every
table lamp and wall wart has its own radial? You'd need the whole wall for
your breaker panel...

--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

ARWadsworth
wibbled on Friday 13 November 2009 13:35

Ring abuse is widespread.
It is in the Catholic church.

Adam

*splat*

I'll have to make more coffee now. It's all over the keyboard!

--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

Doctor Drivel
wibbled on Friday 13 November 2009 13:18


And this is lecturing people on electricity. Amazing. The man is a
walking fire hazard.

Not really - we have enough braincells in this house to cope with a sub
optimal system for a couple of weeks.

The only real hazard is tripping over leads. That's why you have fusing
designed to suit the characteristics of the cables, exactly so you cannot
overheat them dangerously in the event of overload. Unless you've been
rewiring your fuse carriers with old hacksaw blades...

--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

Doctor Drivel
wibbled on Friday 13 November 2009 13:45


I know what the earth is for.

The only earth you should concern yourself with is the stuff in your
plantpots...

--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

I am following this thread with some interest (and amusement).

I am now confused.

I understood that a radial circuit to have a single outlet, fused
appropriately for the job.

I then understood that there was no need for a fuse in the appliance
plug.

Now that I have seen mention of a 32A radial circuit with daisy-chain
sockets, how can it be considered safe to use un-fused plugs?

If such a daisy-chain is in fact used in real life, I do not see how it
differs from a ring - other than it will need heavier cable.
--
Les Desser
(The Reply-to address IS valid)

Les Desser
wibbled on Friday 13 November 2009 15:33

I am following this thread with some interest (and amusement).

I am now confused.

I understood that a radial circuit to have a single outlet, fused
appropriately for the job.

It could, but it might be clearer to refer to that as a dedicated circuit
rather than a radial. This would commonly be the circuit feeding a storage
heater or immersion heater for example.

A standard radial 13A socket circuit (ie IEE definition of standard) may
include:

20A radial with many sockets;
32A radial with many sockets amongst other options.

I then understood that there was no need for a fuse in the appliance
plug.

That could be the case. eg I will be using a 45A RCBO to feed my heating
system (mostly gas when it exists). This will feed a panel consisting of:

6A MCB for boiler and pumps and control. I might drop that to 3A if I think
I can, then, without argument, I can dispense with the 3A fuse on the
boiler.

Then, 3 lots of:

16A MCB for each back up 3kW immersion heater. These will then not have a
switch or a fuse in the flex connection unit as there is no point. I hate
having random fuses in odd places. There are times it's necessary, like an
FCU feeding some bit of equipment from a ring, but for a properly designed
system like a heating system I'd rather dispense with them and bring all
protection into a single panel.

Now that I have seen mention of a 32A radial circuit with daisy-chain
sockets, how can it be considered safe to use un-fused plugs?

It isn't. You would never install (eg) a 15A round pin socket on a circuit
other than one fused at =16A. You can daisy chain 16A commandos (unfused)
on a 20A circuit which is a slight exception, but 20/16A isn't
disasterously out of sorts.

If such a daisy-chain is in fact used in real life, I do not see how it
differs from a ring - other than it will need heavier cable.

It does. That's why a 32A radial is usually impractical. In many real life
installations you might need 6mm2 cable due to derating. And the max
terminal capacity of a 13A socket is generally 1 x 6mm2, 2x 4mm2 or 3+ x
2.5mm2 (slightly manufacturer dependent, unless you use the BS as the
lowest denominator). So a 32A radial would be hard without using junction
boxes.

I will be using one 32A radial: I have a dedicated cooker circuit, 32A.
However, I will be using gas (but it would be stupid not to put conduit in
for an electric cooker). So I decided, after a little conflab, to stick a
13A socket in the 47mm backbox behind the cooker. This is good because:

a) The cooker is logically isolated by using the cooker switch, whether gas
or electric;

b) Don't need to install another socket behind the cooker and fused switched
spur point above -or- have the gas cooker plugging into a socket at worktop
height;

c) The gas cooker will have an electric fan oven, so that sheds some fixed
load from the ring;

d) Installing an electric cooker - change the 13A socket to a cooker outlet.
Job done...

cheers

--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

wrote in message ...
On 13 Nov,
"ARWadsworth" wrote:

When a wire becomes loose in a ring it is difficult to trace. As it is
fed from two ends. It could mean one section of cable in the ring is
cooking as the other section is isolated because of a wire coming
loose.

It is not that difficult to trace if you have the experience and
equipment.

I had puzzler last year, an old (single) ring in a semi serving upstairs
and
downstairs with all wiring between floors and mainly glued down carpets.
None
of the conductors appeared to be in a ring. Eventually I found a plastered
over back box on the landing, with two cables neatly rolled up inside, as
left by the first fixers.

No way.

An electrician who leaves his first fix cables neatly rolled up!

I blame the plasterers for messing with the electricians work:-)


Obviously no testing had been done when the house was constructed!

Obviously. And it only takes basic equipment to show that the ring is
complete.

I also had problems with the lighting circuits, an upstairs and
downstairs
circuit, with the live shared to the landing light from both circuits, due
to
a miswire in the light switch downstairs. Made interesting results to
pulling
one of the fuses.

Literally shocking

If I'd found the original leccy
I'd have used a bt of wire to.......

I think that you would be justified to do so.

Adam

Owain
wibbled on Friday 13 November 2009 21:27

On 13 Nov, 19:03, Tim W wrote:
I will be using one 32A radial: I have a dedicated cooker circuit, 32A.
However, I will be using gas (but it would be stupid not to put conduit
in for an electric cooker). So I decided, after a little conflab, to
stick a 13A socket in the 47mm backbox behind the cooker. This is good
because: d) Installing an electric cooker - change the 13A socket to a
cooker outlet. Job done...

... provided you remember to provide a DP isolating switch,
accessible, within 2m of the cooker location, as well as the outlet
behind the cooker.

Owain

Yes - that's why I mentioned:

"a) The cooker is logically isolated by using the cooker switch, whether gas
or electric;"

:-)

But, yes, it is a general requirement that fixed appliances with concealed
sockets or hard wired in must have an accessible DP isolator nearby.

What I was trying to do is avoid having two different isolators for a high
power electric cooker and a low power gas cooker.

Cheers

Tim
--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 10:56:57 -0800 (PST), Owain wrote:

On 13 Nov, 13:40, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
What happens if it is the earth terminal that is loose?
Safety is impaired. *You can use 4 core cable and have an earth returning
from the last socket. *Or an earth wire back from the end socket.

So a ring, then.

Owain

That'd be 6 wires! Oh, OK though as Dr. D can count those on the fingers of
1 hand.
--
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.

In article ,
PeterC wrote:
On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 10:56:57 -0800 (PST), Owain wrote:

On 13 Nov, 13:40, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
What happens if it is the earth terminal that is loose?
Safety is impaired. You can use 4 core cable and have an earth
returning from the last socket. Or an earth wire back from the end
socket.

So a ring, then.

Owain

That'd be 6 wires! Oh, OK though as Dr. D can count those on the fingers
of 1 hand.

Ouch. ;-)

--
*Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
. ..

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"John Rumm" wrote in message
news Doctor Drivel wrote:

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"js.b1" wrote in message
...
On Nov 11, 2:56 pm, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:
I would tend to go for double-pole RCBOs on all circuits.

Good way of ending with a mile-long CU & higher cost.


And greater protection and the lot not tripping out only that
circuit.

Single pole RCBO devices would offer the same level of fault
protection

That is total drivel.

I can only assume

Some device that isolates the L & N when it activates must offer a
higher level of safety.

No, this is an area where you can't generalise without knowing the
specifics. Firstly you are confusing fault protection with some
nebulous concept of "safety".

I am not. If the device activates and cuts out all electricity
conductors (L&N) it must by definition be safer. In fact if the earth
is isolated even better, then all electrical conductors are isolated
from the appliance or circuit.

No.

Only the live and neutral are the electrical (phase) conductors. The
earth is a circuit protective conductor. The earth connection does it's
job properly by not having it's circuit broken.

I know what the earth is for. If in a safety situation a device trips and
E,N & L are isolate it is the ultimate safety. Why because the earth
could be live from a fault elsewhere. isolating all three is the
ultimate..

You would not want for example a lump of metal such as a combi boiler
and it's copper pipework to have all it's live, neutral and earth
connections isolated when you turn the power off to it.

Why not? If all three are isolated there is no problem.

That would mean that a fault elsewhere, such as a live cable from
another circuit touching a copper pipe would make the combi and it's
pipework rise up to 230V.

Being to earth, via pipes, the combi protects itself.

Why are you suggesting that the pipes are earthed?

In most cases they as they are attached to the cold mains. Plastic pipe
negates the natural earthing via a metal pipe.

"Tim W" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel
wibbled on Friday 13 November 2009 13:45

I know what the earth is for.

The only earth you should concern yourself with is the stuff in your
plantpots...

If that were you bury your earth?

"Tim W" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel
wibbled on Friday 13 November 2009 12:58


You lack common sense. I wouldn't let you near my house. There again I do
all
my own.

I thought your "house" had wall to wall cushions?

How 1960s. Do you wear Chelsea boots?

"Tim W" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel
wibbled on Friday 13 November 2009 13:18


And this is lecturing people on electricity. Amazing. The man is a
walking fire hazard.

Not really - we have enough braincells

You not have any braincells at all. Sad but true.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Tim W" wrote in message
...
Owain
wibbled on Friday 13 November 2009 10:11

On 12 Nov, 22:37, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
A radial with only 8 sockets on it, maximum, and rated to 16A is safer
when abused.

But absolutely useless for practical purposes. We'd end up like the
Americans, having to work out which combinations of sockets and
appliances don't trip anything.

I didn't think ring abuse was that widespread so as to be a problem.

Owain

I'm doing that at the moment, running my entire house (bar water heater)
off
1 32A temp ring and a rather unhealthy assortment of extension leads.

SWMBO's been "instructed" as to which fan heater to turn off to run, say
the
washing machine...

And this is lecturing people on electricity. Amazing. The man is a
walking fire hazard.

It seems every time you open your mouth, it is only to stick your foot
further in.

Yes, further into the mouth of idiot.

"Owain" wrote in message
...
On 13 Nov, 13:40, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
What happens if it is the earth terminal that is loose?
Safety is impaired. You can use 4 core cable and have an earth returning
from the last socket. Or an earth wire back from the end socket.

So a ring, then.


An earth ring

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
Les Desser wrote:

I am following this thread with some interest (and amusement).

It does tend to get a bit surreal

This tattooed man is for Essex you know.

Doctor Drivel
wibbled on Saturday 14 November 2009 14:23


"Tim W" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel
wibbled on Friday 13 November 2009 12:58


You lack common sense. I wouldn't let you near my house. There again I
do all
my own.

I thought your "house" had wall to wall cushions?

How 1960s. Do you wear Chelsea boots?

John Steed is my hero...

--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

Doctor Drivel
wibbled on Saturday 14 November 2009 14:23


"Tim W" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel
wibbled on Friday 13 November 2009 13:18


And this is lecturing people on electricity. Amazing. The man is a
walking fire hazard.

Not really - we have enough braincells

You not have any braincells at all. Sad but true.

At least mine are playing as an orchestra. Yours are more like a bucket of
instruments lobbed into a nursery group.

--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Tim W" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel
wibbled on Friday 13 November 2009 13:45

I know what the earth is for.

The only earth you should concern yourself with is the stuff in your
plantpots...

If that were you bury your earth?

Wonder what his first language is? WeedSpeak?

--
*Speak softly and carry a cellular phone *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , John
Rumm Fri, 13 Nov 2009 17:47:14 writes

I understood that a radial circuit to have a single outlet, fused
appropriately for the job.

Not necessarily. Radials can be used with just a single load - this
would be typical for dedicated circuits feeding fixed equipment like
immersion heaters, cookers, storage heaters etc. i.e. high long term
loads.

You can also use a radial for provision of general power purpose
sockets. You can have as many sockets as you like on the circuit, but
the circuit should not serve more than 50m^2 of floor area.

[....]

Thank you John. I have a much clearer picture now.
--
Les Desser
(The Reply-to address IS valid)

In article , Tim W
Fri, 13 Nov 2009 19:03:11 writes

A standard radial 13A socket circuit (ie IEE definition of standard)
may include:

20A radial with many sockets;

You have just answered a problem that has been nagging at the back of my
mind.

Recently one of my rings developed a short under a concrete slab so I
had to create a break in the ring.

I was wondering how to make it legal but then forgot about it.

So if I fuse each leg at 20A it should be OK.

In fact if I fuse both combined at 20A that should also be legal. (Not
sure if I still have a spare way in my old box)

Just got to go and find some of the old large brown Crabtree MCBs.
Anyone know off hand what I need to Google for?
--
Les Desser
(The Reply-to address IS valid)

Doctor Drivel wrote:

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Tim W" wrote in message
...
Owain
wibbled on Friday 13 November 2009 10:11

On 12 Nov, 22:37, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
A radial with only 8 sockets on it, maximum, and rated to 16A is
safer
when abused.

But absolutely useless for practical purposes. We'd end up like the
Americans, having to work out which combinations of sockets and
appliances don't trip anything.

I didn't think ring abuse was that widespread so as to be a problem.

Owain

I'm doing that at the moment, running my entire house (bar water
heater) off
1 32A temp ring and a rather unhealthy assortment of extension leads.

SWMBO's been "instructed" as to which fan heater to turn off to run,
say the
washing machine...

And this is lecturing people on electricity. Amazing. The man is a
walking fire hazard.

It seems every time you open your mouth, it is only to stick your foot
further in.

Yes, further into the mouth of idiot.

At last we are in agreement.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Doctor Drivel wrote:

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
Les Desser wrote:

I am following this thread with some interest (and amusement).

It does tend to get a bit surreal

This tattooed man is for Essex you know.

I saw the royal tattoo in Earls Court once, does that count?



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Les Desser wrote:
In article , Tim W
Fri, 13 Nov 2009 19:03:11 writes

A standard radial 13A socket circuit (ie IEE definition of standard)
may include:

20A radial with many sockets;

You have just answered a problem that has been nagging at the back of my
mind.

Recently one of my rings developed a short under a concrete slab so I
had to create a break in the ring.

I was wondering how to make it legal but then forgot about it.

So if I fuse each leg at 20A it should be OK.

Yup.

In fact if I fuse both combined at 20A that should also be legal. (Not
sure if I still have a spare way in my old box)

Also ok, assuming that 20A total is enough capacity for your requirement

Just got to go and find some of the old large brown Crabtree MCBs.
Anyone know off hand what I need to Google for?

eBay might also help

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Tim W" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel
wibbled on Friday 13 November 2009 13:45

I know what the earth is for.

The only earth you should concern yourself with is the stuff in your
plantpots...

If that were you bury your earth?

Wonder

Eff off you are a plantpot.

"Tim W" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel
wibbled on Saturday 14 November 2009 14:23


"Tim W" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel
wibbled on Friday 13 November 2009 12:58


You lack common sense. I wouldn't let you near my house. There again I
do all
my own.

I thought your "house" had wall to wall cushions?

How 1960s. Do you wear Chelsea boots?

John Steed is my hero...

Cor! This plantpot walks around in a bowler hat.

"Tim W" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel
wibbled on Saturday 14 November 2009 14:23


"Tim W" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel
wibbled on Friday 13 November 2009 13:18


And this is lecturing people on electricity. Amazing. The man is a
walking fire hazard.

Not really - we have enough braincells

You not have any braincells at all. Sad but true.

At least mine are playing as an orchestra.

How about the voices as well.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Tim W" wrote in message
...
Owain
wibbled on Friday 13 November 2009 10:11

On 12 Nov, 22:37, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
A radial with only 8 sockets on it, maximum, and rated to 16A is
safer
when abused.

But absolutely useless for practical purposes. We'd end up like the
Americans, having to work out which combinations of sockets and
appliances don't trip anything.

I didn't think ring abuse was that widespread so as to be a problem.

Owain

I'm doing that at the moment, running my entire house (bar water
heater) off
1 32A temp ring and a rather unhealthy assortment of extension leads.

SWMBO's been "instructed" as to which fan heater to turn off to run,
say the
washing machine...

And this is lecturing people on electricity. Amazing. The man is a
walking fire hazard.

It seems every time you open your mouth, it is only to stick your foot
further in.

Yes, further into the mouth of idiot.

At last we are in agreement.

Yep. What north and south.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Owain" wrote in message
...
On 12 Nov, 22:37, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
A radial with only 8 sockets on it, maximum, and rated to 16A is safer
when
abused.

But absolutely useless for practical purposes. We'd end up like the
Americans, having to work out which combinations of sockets and
appliances don't trip anything.

When a wire becomes loose in a ring it is difficult to trace. As it is
fed from two ends. It could mean one section of cable in the ring is
cooking as the other section is isolated because of a wire coming loose.

As I said before they are pros and cons for both circuit topologies.
However for general power distribution socket circuits, rings usually have
a slight advantage.

They do not.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
Les Desser wrote:

I am following this thread with some interest (and amusement).

It does tend to get a bit surreal

This tattooed man is for Essex you know.

I saw the royal tattoo in Earls Court once, does that count?

as well as the one on your bum.

In message , Doctor Drivel
writes

"Tim W" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel
wibbled on Saturday 14 November 2009 14:23


"Tim W" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel
wibbled on Friday 13 November 2009 13:18


And this is lecturing people on electricity. Amazing. The man is a
walking fire hazard.

Not really - we have enough braincells

You not have any braincells at all. Sad but true.

At least mine are playing as an orchestra.

How about the voices as well.

I thought that they were giving you tablets to stop those

--
geoff

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , Doctor Drivel
writes

"Tim W" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel
wibbled on Saturday 14 November 2009 14:23


"Tim W" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel
wibbled on Friday 13 November 2009 13:18


And this is lecturing people on electricity. Amazing. The man is a
walking fire hazard.

Not really - we have enough braincells

You not have any braincells at all. Sad but true.

At least mine are playing as an orchestra.

How about the voices as well.

I thought that they were giving you tablets to stop those

Maxie, have you been out on the town in Watford tonight? A great
achievement! You never go roped in. The police never caught you mooning
eh?

In article , John
Rumm Sat, 14 Nov 2009 23:58:10 writes

eBay might also help

That is where I got one a couple of years ago, but I no longer remember
the Crabtree name/type. I suppose I can call Crabtree or whoever owns
them now.

Its a dark brown unit about 4" high.
--
Les Desser
(The Reply-to address IS valid)