So, you are driving along at night and you reach traffic lights which
are red for you. Nobody else has been through the intersection for 10
minutes or more.
Why do traffic engineers make you wait at the red light for 10 or more
seconds before the green light for the cross road changes to orange?
I've spoken to a traffic light engineer and he has no good reason for
the delay, which can easily be set to 0 seconds. But they don't do
that, just because they have always had a delay. Are they stupid, or
is there a good reason for the delay?
I'm not actually that impatient, but there is a situation where public
transport has a tight schedule to keep, and the extra 10 or 20 seconds
on every trip does make a difference, and is a waste of time anyway.

Matty F wrote:
So, you are driving along at night and you reach traffic lights which
are red for you. Nobody else has been through the intersection for 10
minutes or more.
Why do traffic engineers make you wait at the red light for 10 or more
seconds before the green light for the cross road changes to orange?
I've spoken to a traffic light engineer and he has no good reason for
the delay, which can easily be set to 0 seconds. But they don't do
that, just because they have always had a delay. Are they stupid, or
is there a good reason for the delay?

The whole point of traffic lights is to introduce delays, so that
congestion builds up enough to justify turning the town into a
congestion charged or cyclist and pedestrians only zone.

I'm not actually that impatient, but there is a situation where public
transport has a tight schedule to keep, and the extra 10 or 20 seconds
on every trip does make a difference, and is a waste of time anyway.

I have on bored trips counted the amount of time spend waiting at empty
clear traffic lights. In light traffic in a major town, it tends to 50%
of the time.

Owain wrote:
On 20 Oct, 10:56, Matty F wrote:
So, you are driving along at night and you reach traffic lights which
are red for you. Nobody else has been through the intersection for 10
minutes or more.
Why do traffic engineers make you wait at the red light for 10 or more
seconds before the green light for the cross road changes to orange?
I've spoken to a traffic light engineer and he has no good reason for
the delay, which can easily be set to 0 seconds. But they don't do
that, just because they have always had a delay. Are they stupid, or
is there a good reason for the delay?

I guess it's so that people get accustomed to stopping at the red
light and not running through it on the expectation that it will
change to green as they approach.

I'm not actually that impatient, but there is a situation where public
transport has a tight schedule to keep, and the extra 10 or 20 seconds
on every trip does make a difference, and is a waste of time anyway.

Public transport vehicles can be fitted with transponders so they get
priority at lights.

Owain

I find this strange, I often go through lights where in quiet times both
ways are red, then as soon as a car triggers the sensors it goes green
for that vehicle. No delays.

--
Please reply to group,emails to designated
address are never read.

On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 02:56:32 -0700 (PDT), Matty F wrote:

So, you are driving along at night and you reach traffic lights which
are red for you. Nobody else has been through the intersection for 10
minutes or more.

'Cause they have old dumb timed only lights, not ones that sense
traffic and change to let that traffic flow (if safe/possible to do
so). The ones on the narrow bridges here are timed (they cycle the
direction of flow not just sit in one state) but also sense the
traffic. I've approached them and had them started to change to red
to instantly reverse that change and let me through, only having to
slow a little. If there is something waiting the other side they let
that go first, only fair.

Why do traffic engineers make you wait at the red light for 10 or more
seconds before the green light for the cross road changes to orange?

I'm not sure I understand that. A lot of the delay is down to letting
slow traffic clear the junction (horse 'n cart, cyclists, tractors
etc) and letting stuff that tries to beat the red light clear as
well. On a fast road the you need quite a few seconds to let some who
has decided to race the forth coming red light to blat through the
junction at 60mph...

--
Cheers
Dave.

My guess would be that traffic flow sensors don't pick up cyclists
very well, that junctions need some time to clear of slower cyclists,
and at night and side on, some cyclists may not be that visible.

(It was certainly my most scary accident when a driver ploughed into
the side of my bike from a side-street in Cambridge, despite me being
loaded up with all the visibility stuff)

"Matty F" wrote in message
...
So, you are driving along at night and you reach traffic lights which
are red for you. Nobody else has been through the intersection for 10
minutes or more.
Why do traffic engineers make you wait at the red light for 10 or more
seconds before the green light for the cross road changes to orange?
I've spoken to a traffic light engineer and he has no good reason for
the delay, which can easily be set to 0 seconds. But they don't do
that, just because they have always had a delay. Are they stupid, or
is there a good reason for the delay?
I'm not actually that impatient, but there is a situation where public
transport has a tight schedule to keep, and the extra 10 or 20 seconds
on every trip does make a difference, and is a waste of time anyway.

Similarily here, some years ago on a main route out of town, at an
intersection with a minor road, late at night and in the absence of traffic
the lights defaulted to red for the main route.

At the time I formed the conspiracy theory that this was quite intentional
at the behest of police. The idea being that any suspect driver being
'followed' would be stopped at the lights, and then more easily questioned
without the neccesity of a blue light job that might otherwise take a
dramtic turn, or jump the lights which would create a sufficiently serious
offence for the police to have good case against the driver even if their
other suspicions turned out to be unfounded.

Now I am inclined to think the reason was more simple, as has been
mentioned, that traffic engineers have a built in philosophy of delay and
congestion, and simply thought 'that'l slow them down'.

Roger R

On 20 Oct, 10:56, Matty F wrote:
So, you are driving along at night and you reach traffic lights which
are red for you. Nobody else has been through the intersection for 10
minutes or more.
Why do traffic engineers make you wait at the red light for 10 or more
seconds before the green light for the cross road changes to orange?
I've spoken to a traffic light engineer and he has no good reason for
the delay, which can easily be set to 0 seconds. But they don't do
that, just because they have always had a delay. Are they stupid, or
is there a good reason for the delay?
I'm not actually that impatient, but there is a situation where public
transport has a tight schedule to keep, and the extra 10 or 20 seconds
on every trip does make a difference, and is a waste of time anyway.

For the amber gamblers - AKA people not in charge of their vehicle.
Of whom there are many.

"Owain" wrote in message
...
On 20 Oct, 10:56, Matty F wrote:
So, you are driving along at night and you reach traffic lights which
are red for you. Nobody else has been through the intersection for 10
minutes or more.
Why do traffic engineers make you wait at the red light for 10 or more
seconds before the green light for the cross road changes to orange?
I've spoken to a traffic light engineer and he has no good reason for
the delay, which can easily be set to 0 seconds. But they don't do
that, just because they have always had a delay. Are they stupid, or
is there a good reason for the delay?

I guess it's so that people get accustomed to stopping at the red
light and not running through it on the expectation that it will
change to green as they approach.


More than that, it avoids the racing the lights senario, where, if the
normal expectation is green, and the driver will keep up speed expecting
nothing to change. If unexpectedly, a vehicle on the side road causes the
lights to change, because the driver did not expect to stop, driver then
increases speed to race the lights. Sometimes this senario has fatal
consequences.

Roger R

Roger R wrote:
"Owain" wrote in message
...
On 20 Oct, 10:56, Matty F wrote:
So, you are driving along at night and you reach traffic lights which
are red for you. Nobody else has been through the intersection for 10
minutes or more.
Why do traffic engineers make you wait at the red light for 10 or more
seconds before the green light for the cross road changes to orange?
I've spoken to a traffic light engineer and he has no good reason for
the delay, which can easily be set to 0 seconds. But they don't do
that, just because they have always had a delay. Are they stupid, or
is there a good reason for the delay?
I guess it's so that people get accustomed to stopping at the red
light and not running through it on the expectation that it will
change to green as they approach.


More than that, it avoids the racing the lights senario, where, if the
normal expectation is green, and the driver will keep up speed expecting
nothing to change. If unexpectedly, a vehicle on the side road causes the
lights to change, because the driver did not expect to stop, driver then
increases speed to race the lights. Sometimes this senario has fatal
consequences.

Traffic lights in Bulgaria (and probably elsewhere, Russia?[*]) have
countdown red/green digital displays in seconds that show how much is
left on the the green, and how much wait is left on the red. This is for
road users, not pedestrians as in the US.

Great excuse for accelerating up to junctions.
[*] - underpants moment, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO2rW1alVv8

--
Adrian C

On Oct 20, 11:36 pm, Owain wrote:
On 20 Oct, 10:56, Matty F wrote:

So, you are driving along at night and you reach traffic lights which
are red for you. Nobody else has been through the intersection for 10
minutes or more.
Why do traffic engineers make you wait at the red light for 10 or more
seconds before the green light for the cross road changes to orange?
I've spoken to a traffic light engineer and he has no good reason for
the delay, which can easily be set to 0 seconds. But they don't do
that, just because they have always had a delay. Are they stupid, or
is there a good reason for the delay?

I guess it's so that people get accustomed to stopping at the red
light and not running through it on the expectation that it will
change to green as they approach.

In the case I'm concerned about, the main road has a green light most
of the time. The side road is only for buses who have well-trained
drivers. There's no way they would run a red light. There are lots of
passengers who would notice and complain.

I'm not actually that impatient, but there is a situation where public
transport has a tight schedule to keep, and the extra 10 or 20 seconds
on every trip does make a difference, and is a waste of time anyway.

Public transport vehicles can be fitted with transponders so they get
priority at lights.

In this case the bus company has paid for the traffic lights to be
installed. The traffic light controller knows perfectly well when a
bus has arrived. The traffic light engineer simply refuses to program
the lights correctly.
Let's say that there is supposed to be a bus exactly every 10 minutes,
and the trip actually takes nearly 10 minutes. An extra 10 or 20
seconds of wasted time on each trip can make the buses late all day.

In article ,
Matty F writes:

The traffic light engineer simply refuses to program
the lights correctly.

There was a set of lights I used to go through daily, about 10 years
ago. One day, the time sequencing on the lights was adjusted, and this
resulted in massive tailbacks. After 3 or 4 days of this, I got to the
lights, and someone had painted a sign under every traffic light
which read:
"Any complaints? Call head of traffic planning on 077....."
They were fixed when I went through again at lunchtime;-)
I don't suppose his mobile stopped ringing until they were.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 02:56:32 -0700 (PDT), Matty F wrote:

So, you are driving along at night and you reach traffic lights which
are red for you. Nobody else has been through the intersection for 10
minutes or more.
Why do traffic engineers make you wait at the red light for 10 or more
seconds before the green light for the cross road changes to orange?
I've spoken to a traffic light engineer and he has no good reason for
the delay, which can easily be set to 0 seconds. But they don't do
that, just because they have always had a delay. Are they stupid, or
is there a good reason for the delay?
I'm not actually that impatient, but there is a situation where public
transport has a tight schedule to keep, and the extra 10 or 20 seconds
on every trip does make a difference, and is a waste of time anyway.

Personally I've generally thought that at night, in many locations, it
would make a lot of sense to have a green light permanently on for the main
road, with a flashing red on the side road meaning Stop and procede when
safe. A bit like France's flashing amber, but there you still have to slow
on the main road, as the side road can also be flashing amber and traffic
may emerge without stopping.

SteveW

On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 02:56:32 -0700, Matty F wrote:
Why do traffic engineers make you wait at the red light for 10 or more
seconds before the green light for the cross road changes to orange?

I think it varies by country and region, TBH - there doesn't seem to be
much consistency. Maybe you're just in an area where they happen to like
long delays; I've seen some setups where it really is 0.

One possibility is that it's just to give time for anyone already within
the junction (e.g. a slow cyclist) to clear it without seeing that the
lights are about to change and worrying that they'll get flattened.

Maybe it's also a delay to allow any emergency services vehicles chance
to muscle through for setups that don't give automatic priority to
transponder-fitted emergency vehicles (not sure if they have those in NZ?)

There's also the chance that approaching traffic will run the orange / red
light, so the planners want as much delay as possible before a change
to green just in case (I remember one set of lights on a fast road coming
into Wellington where the change from green to red was *extremely* quick -
there were probably quite a few incidents of vehicles sailing through on
a red/orange at that particular junction)

cheers

Jules

On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:00:23 +0100, Adrian C wrote:
Traffic lights in Bulgaria (and probably elsewhere, Russia?[*]) have
countdown red/green digital displays in seconds that show how much is
left on the the green, and how much wait is left on the red. This is for
road users, not pedestrians as in the US.

Where I am in the US some of the major intersections have flashing amber
warning lights before the junction so that drivers know the light's
likely to have changed to red by the time they get to it; it's really
handy to have given how US traffic planners often prefer traffic
lights to slip-roads, so you do a lot of 65 - 0 - 65 driving...

In article ,
Steve Walker writes:

Personally I've generally thought that at night, in many locations, it
would make a lot of sense to have a green light permanently on for the main
road, with a flashing red on the side road meaning Stop and procede when
safe. A bit like France's flashing amber, but there you still have to slow
on the main road, as the side road can also be flashing amber and traffic
may emerge without stopping.

US version has flashing amber on main road with priority, and
flashing red on side road, basically meaning give way.
Switches to this mode when traffic congestion level no longer
requires controlling by lights (or on a timer with older sets).

We could definately do with something like that, or more
traffic lights which were peak hours only. There's a series of
about 6 lights I go through driving back from my parents, and
when it's 11pm or later, I get stopped at usually 4 or 5 of
them for a couple of minutes each, and there's not another
vehicle to be seen anywhere!

I've had several US colleagues complain to me about UK traffic
lights being confusing. This caused me to think about them more
critically and compare with the US traffic lights, and on reflection,
the US traffic light control is very much better. Not something
I noticed being familiar with the UK scheme until it was drawn
to my attention though.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"Roger R" wrote in message
...

"Matty F" wrote in message
...
So, you are driving along at night and you reach traffic lights which
are red for you. Nobody else has been through the intersection for 10
minutes or more.
Why do traffic engineers make you wait at the red light for 10 or more
seconds before the green light for the cross road changes to orange?
I've spoken to a traffic light engineer and he has no good reason for
the delay, which can easily be set to 0 seconds. But they don't do
that, just because they have always had a delay. Are they stupid, or
is there a good reason for the delay?
I'm not actually that impatient, but there is a situation where public
transport has a tight schedule to keep, and the extra 10 or 20 seconds
on every trip does make a difference, and is a waste of time anyway.

Similarily here, some years ago on a main route out of town, at an
intersection with a minor road, late at night and in the absence of
traffic
the lights defaulted to red for the main route.

At the time I formed the conspiracy theory that this was quite intentional
at the behest of police. The idea being that any suspect driver being
'followed' would be stopped at the lights, and then more easily questioned
without the neccesity of a blue light job that might otherwise take a
dramtic turn, or jump the lights which would create a sufficiently serious
offence for the police to have good case against the driver even if their
other suspicions turned out to be unfounded.

Now I am inclined to think the reason was more simple, as has been
mentioned, that traffic engineers have a built in philosophy of delay and
congestion, and simply thought 'that'l slow them down'.

Roger R



There is also an issue of petrol wasted in stopping and then re-starting for
10 seconds.

Near me is a bridge controlled by lights and they are excellent. If nothing
is coming the other way they always change as you approach - unless you are
going fast!

On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:18:34 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ,
Steve Walker writes:

Personally I've generally thought that at night, in many locations, it
would make a lot of sense to have a green light permanently on for the main
road, with a flashing red on the side road meaning Stop and procede when
safe. A bit like France's flashing amber, but there you still have to slow
on the main road, as the side road can also be flashing amber and traffic
may emerge without stopping.

US version has flashing amber on main road with priority, and
flashing red on side road, basically meaning give way.

Depends where you are - the US can be quite variable in junction setups.
I've never seen those up here, just flashing amber on all routes
(for "proceed with caution") for major roads with crossing minor ones, or
on some freeways they have the flashing red on the on-ramp (but no
flashing amber on the freeway side). At busy times the freeway ramp ones
continously cycle green-red and only one vehicle is supposed to go through
on green if they can (but they still have to give way to freeway traffic
once past the light)

We could definately do with something like that, or more traffic lights
which were peak hours only.

Thankfully just about all of them here have sensors to detect vehicles,
so change nicely late at night.

I've had several US colleagues complain to me about UK traffic lights
being confusing. This caused me to think about them more critically and
compare with the US traffic lights, and on reflection, the US traffic
light control is very much better.

I agree; I was surprised at how good it is when I first moved here. Being
able* to run a red light when turning without crossing traffic is
awesome for keeping things moving, and the US lights failsafe to flashing
red if there's a problem (rather than just cocking up as I've seen UK ones
do), and I particularly like the way they give priority to emergency
services vehicles (although maybe they do that in the UK now too?)

* although I think that's another variable thing, and some states don't
allow it.

'course they make up for it in the US by having some of the most ****ty
road markings and lighting that I've ever seen in any country :-) Knowing
where to place yourself on the road can be quite an art, particularly
when it's dark / wet / snowy.

cheers

Jules

On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:18:34 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Gabriel wrote:

A bit like France's flashing amber, but there you still have to
slow
on the main road, as the side road can also be flashing amber and
traffic may emerge without stopping.

Do the French still have the "priority to traffic joining a road"
rule?

I've had several US colleagues complain to me about UK traffic
lights being confusing. This caused me to think about them more
critically and compare with the US traffic lights, and on reflection,
the US traffic light control is very much better.

How much is that down to most of their junctions being simple cross
roads, with generally fairly equal traffic on all 4 ways, rather than
our fairly common 5 or more ways with very different traffic levels
on each way?

They do have nice things though like "turn right on red" I didn't see
any flashing versions but I do like the french flashing system, I
think that is better than our "peak time only" set ups.

The fun thing is the states is a round about or "traffic circle" the
number of warning signs and instructions on how to negociate it are
quite a sight to behold. Wonder how they'd cope with a "magic round
about" like those in Swindon or Hemel(?)... B-)

--
Cheers
Dave.

Andrew Gabriel
wibbled on Tuesday 20 October 2009 14:18

In article
, Matty
F writes:

The traffic light engineer simply refuses to program
the lights correctly.

There was a set of lights I used to go through daily, about 10 years
ago. One day, the time sequencing on the lights was adjusted, and this
resulted in massive tailbacks. After 3 or 4 days of this, I got to the
lights, and someone had painted a sign under every traffic light
which read:
"Any complaints? Call head of traffic planning on 077....."
They were fixed when I went through again at lunchtime;-)
I don't suppose his mobile stopped ringing until they were.


Sounds like a classic case of lights-adjusting bloke being *told* to do
something he knew wouldn't work... And then being "helpful" :_)

--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

Steve Walker
wibbled on Tuesday 20 October 2009 14:26


Personally I've generally thought that at night, in many locations, it
would make a lot of sense to have a green light permanently on for the
main road, with a flashing red on the side road meaning Stop and procede
when safe. A bit like France's flashing amber, but there you still have to
slow on the main road, as the side road can also be flashing amber and
traffic may emerge without stopping.

SteveW

They'd probably have to use flashing amber as flashing red means "absolutely
do not proceed" (cf level crossings)

--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

Dave Liquorice
wibbled on Tuesday 20 October 2009 16:23

On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:18:34 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Gabriel wrote:

A bit like France's flashing amber, but there you still have to
slow
on the main road, as the side road can also be flashing amber and
traffic may emerge without stopping.

Do the French still have the "priority to traffic joining a road"
rule?

I think so. Last time I drove in Boulougne (sp?) there was a woman in a
little French car on the right who looked determined that she was about to
leap out in front of me (on the main road).

The fact she decided not to was probably due to me being in

a) A big car

b) On the right side of the car driving, therefore not French

c) Looking even more determined than she

It's a stupid rule. It should have been junked years ago - if nothing else,
it confuses everyone else in Europe who might happen to drive through
France.

--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Adrian C
saying something like:

Great excuse for accelerating up to junctions.

[*] - underpants moment, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO2rW1alVv8

Quaint local expressions, number 146.
"Supposed failure of the braking system ....
The man across the road, apparently born in a shirt!"

On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 16:40:51 +0100, Tim W wrote:

Dave Liquorice
wibbled on Tuesday 20 October 2009 16:23

On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:18:34 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Gabriel wrote:

A bit like France's flashing amber, but there you still have to
slow
on the main road, as the side road can also be flashing amber and
traffic may emerge without stopping.

Do the French still have the "priority to traffic joining a road"
rule?

I think so. Last time I drove in Boulougne (sp?) there was a woman in a
little French car on the right who looked determined that she was about to
leap out in front of me (on the main road).

The fact she decided not to was probably due to me being in

a) A big car

b) On the right side of the car driving, therefore not French

c) Looking even more determined than she

It's a stupid rule. It should have been junked years ago - if nothing else,
it confuses everyone else in Europe who might happen to drive through
France.

They've partially got rid of it. Most roundabouts have signs telling you
that you haven't got priority on the approach, most major roads are marked
as having priority over the sideroads. So it's now even worse, as you have
to be sure that both you and the driver about to pull out are sure of who's
got priority!

SteveW

On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 16:37:39 +0100, Tim W wrote:

Steve Walker
wibbled on Tuesday 20 October 2009 14:26


Personally I've generally thought that at night, in many locations, it
would make a lot of sense to have a green light permanently on for the
main road, with a flashing red on the side road meaning Stop and procede
when safe. A bit like France's flashing amber, but there you still have to
slow on the main road, as the side road can also be flashing amber and
traffic may emerge without stopping.

SteveW

They'd probably have to use flashing amber as flashing red means "absolutely
do not proceed" (cf level crossings)

True, but I was trying to avoid the flashing amber, as my idea was to turn
it into the temporary equivalent of a stop sign, hence staying with red
rather than being similar to other countries' flashing ambers, which could
be confused as cautions.

SteveW

On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 17:04:41 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Adrian C
saying something like:

Great excuse for accelerating up to junctions.

[*] - underpants moment, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO2rW1alVv8

Quaint local expressions, number 146.
"Supposed failure of the braking system ....

I was trying to work out if it had been sped up to make it more dramatic
(the car seems to remain remarkably unsquished for such a big impact), bu
the pedestrian on the far left seems to be walking at a reasonably normal
pace, so maybe not...

"Matty F" wrote in message
...
So, you are driving along at night and you reach traffic lights which
are red for you. Nobody else has been through the intersection for 10
minutes or more.
Why do traffic engineers make you wait at the red light for 10 or more
seconds before the green light for the cross road changes to orange?
I've spoken to a traffic light engineer and he has no good reason for
the delay, which can easily be set to 0 seconds. But they don't do
that, just because they have always had a delay. Are they stupid, or
is there a good reason for the delay?

AAIUI If the lights turn to green as you approach, they also turn red
against the cross traffic. If someone decides to jump the light that has
just changed red against them, the risk of collission is higher than if you
had been brought to a stop and need to accelerate away from the line..

Colin Bignell

In this case the bus company has paid for the traffic lights to be
installed. The traffic light controller knows perfectly well when a
bus has arrived. The traffic light engineer simply refuses to program
the lights correctly.
Let's say that there is supposed to be a bus exactly every 10 minutes,
and the trip actually takes nearly 10 minutes. An extra 10 or 20
seconds of wasted time on each trip can make the buses late all day.

I think I would have to suggest that, given all the variables that might
impede a bus's journey - old ladies with walking sticks and shopping bags
trying to clamber on, mothers with kids and push chairs, local authority /
gas board / water board etc digging up the road, weather conditions, people
with no change and so on - if a ten second delay at a set of lights could
screw up the timetable for the day, then the person that determined the
scheduling, got it wrong ...

Arfa

"Tim W" wrote in message
...
Dave Liquorice
wibbled on Tuesday 20 October 2009 16:23

On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:18:34 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Gabriel wrote:

A bit like France's flashing amber, but there you still have to
slow
on the main road, as the side road can also be flashing amber and
traffic may emerge without stopping.

Do the French still have the "priority to traffic joining a road"
rule?

I think so. Last time I drove in Boulougne (sp?) there was a woman in a
little French car on the right who looked determined that she was about to
leap out in front of me (on the main road).

The fact she decided not to was probably due to me being in

a) A big car

b) On the right side of the car driving, therefore not French

c) Looking even more determined than she

It's a stupid rule. It should have been junked years ago - if nothing
else,
it confuses everyone else in Europe who might happen to drive through
France.

They have it, but nearly every junction has the "no, it doesn't apply here"
sign applied to it, which means in practice they don't have it.

I've never had a problem. I wouldn't trust a junction in a town anyway, and
they're the ones likely to still be p.a.d. Outside town, it's generally
pretty sane.

"Tim W" wrote in message
...
Steve Walker
wibbled on Tuesday 20 October 2009 14:26


Personally I've generally thought that at night, in many locations, it
would make a lot of sense to have a green light permanently on for the
main road, with a flashing red on the side road meaning Stop and procede
when safe. A bit like France's flashing amber, but there you still have
to
slow on the main road, as the side road can also be flashing amber and
traffic may emerge without stopping.

SteveW

They'd probably have to use flashing amber as flashing red means
"absolutely
do not proceed" (cf level crossings)

--
Tim Watts



When I used to drive around Eastern Europe the traffic lights used to all
flas amber at night and you had to look for the priority sign (yellow
diamond) or no priority sign (yellow diamond with a black line through it)
as you approached the junction.

Adam

"Jules" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 17:04:41 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Adrian C
saying something like:

Great excuse for accelerating up to junctions.

[*] - underpants moment, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO2rW1alVv8

Quaint local expressions, number 146.
"Supposed failure of the braking system ....

I was trying to work out if it had been sped up to make it more dramatic
(the car seems to remain remarkably unsquished for such a big impact), bu
the pedestrian on the far left seems to be walking at a reasonably normal
pace, so maybe not...


The timer on the bottom left of the CCTV suggests that it is not sped up.

Adam

On 20 Oct, 11:36, Owain wrote:
On 20 Oct, 10:56, Matty F wrote:

So, you are driving along at night and you reach traffic lights which
are red for you. Nobody else has been through the intersection for 10
minutes or more.
Why do traffic engineers make you wait at the red light for 10 or more
seconds before the green light for the cross road changes to orange?
I've spoken to a traffic light engineer and he has no good reason for
the delay, which can easily be set to 0 seconds. But they don't do
that, just because they have always had a delay. Are they stupid, or
is there a good reason for the delay?

I guess it's so that people get accustomed to stopping at the red
light and not running through it on the expectation that it will
change to green as they approach.

I'm not actually that impatient, but there is a situation where public
transport has a tight schedule to keep, and the extra 10 or 20 seconds
on every trip does make a difference, and is a waste of time anyway.

Public transport vehicles can be fitted with transponders so they get
priority at lights.

Owain

Can you quote some specification details for these transponders?

On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 17:44:16 +0000, ARWadsworth wrote:
I was trying to work out if it had been sped up to make it more dramatic
(the car seems to remain remarkably unsquished for such a big impact), bu
the pedestrian on the far left seems to be walking at a reasonably normal
pace, so maybe not...

The timer on the bottom left of the CCTV suggests that it is not sped up.

Indeed, although it had crossed my mind that someone could had added it to
the sped-up video frames after the fact. Effort for not much gain, though!

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Jules
saying something like:

The timer on the bottom left of the CCTV suggests that it is not sped up.

Indeed, although it had crossed my mind that someone could had added it to
the sped-up video frames after the fact. Effort for not much gain, though!

Nah, the guy just had good observation, and bloody good reactions. That
he was already loping along saved him from a bit of grief.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The whole point of traffic lights is to introduce delays

....specifically aimed at you.

so that
congestion builds up enough to justify turning the town into a
congestion charged or cyclist and pedestrians only zone.


No, that's not true. It's to study the effect on your paranoia levels.
Sometimes we dig up whole sections of motorway just so we can watch you
fulminate on usenet.

We have a padded cell with your name on it in the basement of the DVLA.

On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:26:32 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 02:56:32 -0700 (PDT), Matty F wrote:

So, you are driving along at night and you reach traffic lights which
are red for you. Nobody else has been through the intersection for 10
minutes or more.
Why do traffic engineers make you wait at the red light for 10 or more
seconds before the green light for the cross road changes to orange?
I've spoken to a traffic light engineer and he has no good reason for
the delay, which can easily be set to 0 seconds. But they don't do
that, just because they have always had a delay. Are they stupid, or
is there a good reason for the delay?
I'm not actually that impatient, but there is a situation where public
transport has a tight schedule to keep, and the extra 10 or 20 seconds
on every trip does make a difference, and is a waste of time anyway.

Personally I've generally thought that at night, in many locations, it
would make a lot of sense to have a green light permanently on for the main
road, with a flashing red on the side road meaning Stop and procede when
safe. A bit like France's flashing amber, but there you still have to slow
on the main road, as the side road can also be flashing amber and traffic
may emerge without stopping.

Or just switch the traffic lights off? Save a few pennies in
electrickery too ;-)

There's one junction that actually changes to red against me
sometimes, even when there is no other traffic around :-(
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
[Reply-to address valid until it is spammed.]

"Tim W" wrote in message
...


They'd probably have to use flashing amber as flashing red means
"absolutely
do not proceed" (cf level crossings)

The same as steady red then.
Steady red also means do not proceed.

"nightjar.me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...



AAIUI If the lights turn to green as you approach, they also turn red
against the cross traffic. If someone decides to jump the light that has
just changed red against them, the risk of collission is higher than if
you had been brought to a stop and need to accelerate away from the line..

Around Brum there isn't much delay between the red and green the other way.
We don't get many jumping red lights but it is getting worse with the bad
habits from visitors spreading.
On the junctions where people frequently jump the red they extend the gap
and fit cameras.
Its the idiot drivers that make the long overlap necessary and they are
growing in numbers.
More cameras and stiffer fines is the easiest solution.

Matty F gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

So, you are driving along at night and you reach traffic lights which
are red for you. Nobody else has been through the intersection for 10
minutes or more.
Why do traffic engineers make you wait at the red light for 10 or more
seconds before the green light for the cross road changes to orange?

I've never seen a set of traffic lights with a red period anywhere
_close_ to that.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"nightjar.me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...



AAIUI If the lights turn to green as you approach, they also turn red
against the cross traffic. If someone decides to jump the light that has
just changed red against them, the risk of collission is higher than if
you had been brought to a stop and need to accelerate away from the
line..

Around Brum there isn't much delay between the red and green the other
way.
We don't get many jumping red lights but it is getting worse with the bad
habits from visitors spreading.
On the junctions where people frequently jump the red they extend the gap
and fit cameras.
Its the idiot drivers that make the long overlap necessary and they are
growing in numbers.
More cameras and stiffer fines is the easiest solution.

While cameras may reduce the number who jump the lights, unlike the delay,
they do nothing to reduce the risk of a collision when someone does jump the
lights..

Colin Bignell

"Matty F" wrote in message
...
So, you are driving along at night and you reach traffic lights which
are red for you. Nobody else has been through the intersection for 10
minutes or more.
Why do traffic engineers make you wait at the red light for 10 or more
seconds before the green light for the cross road changes to orange?
I've spoken to a traffic light engineer and he has no good reason for
the delay, which can easily be set to 0 seconds. But they don't do
that, just because they have always had a delay. Are they stupid, or
is there a good reason for the delay?
I'm not actually that impatient, but there is a situation where public
transport has a tight schedule to keep, and the extra 10 or 20 seconds
on every trip does make a difference, and is a waste of time anyway.

The waiting time for the lights to change that you describe is the period
between green ending one way and green appearing the other is known as the
intergreen period.

The length of the intergreen is determined by the particular circumstances.
Probabably the junction you mention has a high record of red light runners
or some other factor.

Have a look at these four papers which provide a useful introduction and
explanations of the intergreen and other periods in the cycle (second paper
in list):

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tpm/...fficco4102.pdf
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tpm/...fficco4103.pdf
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tpm/...fficco4104.pdf
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tpm/...fficco4105.pdf

The above papers are all on this page:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tpm/...signals/tcbls/


Other computer control programmes have been developed for more complex
situations such as linking several sets of lights on the same road or for
co-ordinating control of lights in urban areas to prevent gridlock.

Explore the other papers he
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tpm/...gnsandsignals/

This page on American traffic lights is fairly interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_lights

Roger R