I bought a second hand woodworking lathe some months ago which came
with an ABB contactor switch (type A12-30-10). I didn't consider it
necessary to have a contactor and an 2kw electronic controller for the
lathe, so re-directed the starter for driving my circular saw. This
had a contactor in a home made box so there was an attraction in
having a pukka device.

I'd checked the new contactor's operation sometime back and was a bit
suspicious that it was a bit sluggish in pulling in. This is now
confirmed when connected to the 2kw motor for the saw. Sometimes it
will operate OK and the saw starts up fine, otherwise there is a lot
of chattering, sparking, chuntering from the saw motor and nothing
happens.

I jury rigged the original contactor to see if it is something to do
with the change of site and it operates fine - pulls in perfectly each
time.

This is a 240v single phase system.

Anyone any ideas before I go the the bother of fitting the old, and
operating, contactor into the 'new' starter box, and dumping the 'new'
one.

Thanks
Rob

robgraham wrote:
I bought a second hand woodworking lathe some months ago which came
with an ABB contactor switch (type A12-30-10). I didn't consider it
necessary to have a contactor and an 2kw electronic controller for the
lathe, so re-directed the starter for driving my circular saw. This
had a contactor in a home made box so there was an attraction in
having a pukka device.

I'd checked the new contactor's operation sometime back and was a bit
suspicious that it was a bit sluggish in pulling in. This is now
confirmed when connected to the 2kw motor for the saw. Sometimes it
will operate OK and the saw starts up fine, otherwise there is a lot
of chattering, sparking, chuntering from the saw motor and nothing
happens.

I jury rigged the original contactor to see if it is something to do
with the change of site and it operates fine - pulls in perfectly each
time.

This is a 240v single phase system.

Anyone any ideas before I go the the bother of fitting the old, and
operating, contactor into the 'new' starter box, and dumping the 'new'
one.

Thanks
Rob


Have you checked that the coil voltage is actually 240Vac / dc and not 24Vac
/ dc?

Is this contactor dual 1ph and 3ph operable? (3pole - 4pole construction)

Did you mark and copy the exact wiring plan / configuration before you
transfered the contactor?

So many questions, so little knowledge of this particular peice of
equipment. :-)

"BigWallop" wrote in message
om...
robgraham wrote:
I bought a second hand woodworking lathe some months ago which
came
with an ABB contactor switch (type A12-30-10). I didn't consider
it
necessary to have a contactor and an 2kw electronic controller for
the
lathe, so re-directed the starter for driving my circular saw.
This
had a contactor in a home made box so there was an attraction in
having a pukka device.

I'd checked the new contactor's operation sometime back and was a
bit
suspicious that it was a bit sluggish in pulling in. This is now
confirmed when connected to the 2kw motor for the saw. Sometimes
it
will operate OK and the saw starts up fine, otherwise there is a
lot
of chattering, sparking, chuntering from the saw motor and nothing
happens.

I jury rigged the original contactor to see if it is something to
do
with the change of site and it operates fine - pulls in perfectly
each
time.

This is a 240v single phase system.

Anyone any ideas before I go the the bother of fitting the old,
and
operating, contactor into the 'new' starter box, and dumping the
'new'
one.

Thanks
Rob


Have you checked that the coil voltage is actually 240Vac / dc and
not 24Vac
/ dc?

Is this contactor dual 1ph and 3ph operable? (3pole - 4pole
construction)

Did you mark and copy the exact wiring plan / configuration before
you
transfered the contactor?

So many questions, so little knowledge of this particular peice of
equipment. :-)


If the coil was 24v it would be toast now - possibly though it is
415v?????

AWEM

On 13 Aug, 08:02, "Andrew Mawson"
wrote:
"BigWallop" wrote in message

om...



robgraham wrote:
I bought a second hand woodworking lathe some months ago which
came
with an ABB contactor switch (type A12-30-10). *I didn't consider
it
necessary to have a contactor and an 2kw electronic controller for
the
lathe, so re-directed the starter for driving my circular saw.
This
had a contactor in a home made box so there was an attraction in
having a pukka device.

I'd checked the new contactor's operation sometime back and was a
bit
suspicious that it was a bit sluggish in pulling in. *This is now
confirmed when connected to the 2kw motor for the saw. *Sometimes
it
will operate OK and the saw starts up fine, otherwise there is a
lot
of chattering, sparking, chuntering from the saw motor and nothing
happens.

I jury rigged the original contactor to see if it is something to
do
with the change of site and it operates fine - pulls in perfectly
each
time.

This is a 240v single phase system.

Anyone any ideas before I go the the bother of fitting the old,
and
operating, contactor into the 'new' starter box, and dumping the
'new'
one.

Thanks
Rob

Have you checked that the coil voltage is actually 240Vac / dc and
not 24Vac
/ dc?

Is this contactor dual 1ph and 3ph operable? *(3pole - 4pole
construction)

Did you mark and copy the exact wiring plan / configuration before
you
transfered the contactor?

So many questions, so little knowledge of this particular peice of
equipment. *:-)

If the coil was 24v it would be toast now - possibly though it is
415v?????

AWEM

It looks like my mistake !! Everything pointed to this being a 240v
set up, but I've now noticed a '440v' which I hadn't spotted before
and didn't in all truth look for ! Doubly confirmed by checking the
coil resistances - 1770R and 800R.

I bought the whole lathe and controller package at quite a good price
from a guy who was a metal working enthusiast who had gone into wood
turning. He didn't actually say so but I think he gave up in disgust
as there were so many things wrong with the electrical/electronics
that I wonder if he ever actually got the lathe working properly - and
this contactor is another anomaly !

My apologies for having bothered you. A case of jumping in with
'phone a friend' before thinking it out yourself !

Now to find a solution !

Rob

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 02:26:24 -0700 (PDT), Rob G wrote:

If the coil was 24v it would be toast now - possibly though it is
415v?????

AWEM

It looks like my mistake !! Everything pointed to this being a 240v
set up, but I've now noticed a '440v' which I hadn't spotted before
and didn't in all truth look for ! Doubly confirmed by checking the
coil resistances - 1770R and 800R.

I bought the whole lathe and controller package at quite a good price
from a guy who was a metal working enthusiast who had gone into wood
turning. He didn't actually say so but I think he gave up in disgust
as there were so many things wrong with the electrical/electronics
that I wonder if he ever actually got the lathe working properly - and
this contactor is another anomaly !

Sure the lathe isn't 3 phase? :-)
--
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.

Rob G wrote:
On 13 Aug, 08:02, "Andrew Mawson"
wrote:
"BigWallop" wrote in message

om...



robgraham wrote:
I bought a second hand woodworking lathe some months ago which came
with an ABB contactor switch (type A12-30-10). I didn't consider it
necessary to have a contactor and an 2kw electronic controller for
the lathe, so re-directed the starter for driving my circular saw.
This had a contactor in a home made box so there was an attraction
in having a pukka device.

I'd checked the new contactor's operation sometime back and was a
bit suspicious that it was a bit sluggish in pulling in. This is
now confirmed when connected to the 2kw motor for the saw.
Sometimes it will operate OK and the saw starts up fine, otherwise
there is a lot of chattering, sparking, chuntering from the saw
motor and nothing happens.

I jury rigged the original contactor to see if it is something to
do with the change of site and it operates fine - pulls in
perfectly each time.

This is a 240v single phase system.

Anyone any ideas before I go the the bother of fitting the old, and
operating, contactor into the 'new' starter box, and dumping the
'new' one.

Thanks
Rob

Have you checked that the coil voltage is actually 240Vac / dc and
not 24Vac / dc?

Is this contactor dual 1ph and 3ph operable? (3pole - 4pole
construction)

Did you mark and copy the exact wiring plan / configuration before
you transfered the contactor?

So many questions, so little knowledge of this particular peice of
equipment. :-)

If the coil was 24v it would be toast now - possibly though it is
415v?????

AWEM

It looks like my mistake !! Everything pointed to this being a 240v
set up, but I've now noticed a '440v' which I hadn't spotted before
and didn't in all truth look for ! Doubly confirmed by checking the
coil resistances - 1770R and 800R.

I bought the whole lathe and controller package at quite a good price
from a guy who was a metal working enthusiast who had gone into wood
turning. He didn't actually say so but I think he gave up in disgust
as there were so many things wrong with the electrical/electronics
that I wonder if he ever actually got the lathe working properly - and
this contactor is another anomaly !

My apologies for having bothered you. A case of jumping in with
'phone a friend' before thinking it out yourself !

Now to find a solution !

Rob


The only thing I can think of is this
http://www.isomatic.co.uk/3phConverter.htm But it's very expensive. :-(

On 13 Aug, 13:41, PeterC wrote:
On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 02:26:24 -0700 (PDT), Rob G wrote:
If the coil was 24v it would be toast now - possibly though it is
415v?????

AWEM

It looks like my mistake !! *Everything pointed to this being a 240v
set up, but I've now noticed a '440v' which I hadn't spotted before
and didn't in all truth look for ! *Doubly confirmed by checking the
coil resistances - 1770R and 800R.

I bought the whole lathe and controller package at quite a good price
from a guy who was a metal working enthusiast who had gone into wood
turning. *He didn't actually say so but I think he gave up in disgust
as there were so many things wrong with the electrical/electronics
that I wonder if he ever actually got the lathe working properly - and
this contactor is another anomaly !

Sure the lathe isn't 3 phase? :-)
--
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.

Yes it is - 240v 3ph from a 1 to 3ph inverter. As I said I really
don't understand how the seller ever got this system working - the
starter switch fed the inverter with the emergency switch killing the
starter: crude when the inverter has all these facilities in it.

Thoroughly recommend these inverters - once you've gone up the
required learning curve they really are great for running a 3 ph motor
at variable speed.

Rob

robgraham wrote:
I bought a second hand woodworking lathe some months ago which came
with an ABB contactor switch (type A12-30-10). I didn't consider it
necessary to have a contactor and an 2kw electronic controller for the
lathe, so re-directed the starter for driving my circular saw. This
had a contactor in a home made box so there was an attraction in
having a pukka device.

The reason it has a contactor, may be for safety reasons - as in a no
volt release, so it doesn't start up when power is restored.

Check the coil voltage is the correct voltage and ac or dc. Check it
actually on the mains supply rather than fed from an inverter. I also
once came across a sluggish contactor which was sluggish because it was
choked up with oily wood shavings.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On 13 Aug, 17:58, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:
robgraham wrote:
I bought a second hand woodworking lathe some months ago which came
with an ABB contactor switch (type A12-30-10). *I didn't consider it
necessary to have a contactor and an 2kw electronic controller for the
lathe, so re-directed the starter for driving my circular saw. *This
had a contactor in a home made box so there was an attraction in
having a pukka device.

The reason it has a contactor, may be for safety reasons - as in a no
volt release, so it doesn't start up when power is restored.

Check the coil voltage is the correct voltage and ac or dc. Check it
actually on the mains supply rather than fed from an inverter. I also
once came across a sluggish contactor which was sluggish because it was
choked up with oily wood shavings.

--
Regards,
* * * * Harry (M1BYT) (L)http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Interesting point, Harry. I will check the power failure handling
tomorrow.

I would like to think that the electronics is programmed to not
restart the motor after a power failure. On the other hand it may
well be a user programmable option - fan drives might for instance be
better if they restarted automatically whereas machines like lathes
would not.

Rob

I bought a second hand woodworking lathe some months ago which came
with an ABB contactor switch (type A12-30-10). I didn't consider it
necessary to have a contactor and an 2kw electronic controller for the
lathe, so re-directed the starter for driving my circular saw. This
had a contactor in a home made box so there was an attraction in having
a pukka device.

I'd checked the new contactor's operation sometime back and was a bit
suspicious that it was a bit sluggish in pulling in. This is now
confirmed when connected to the 2kw motor for the saw. Sometimes it
will operate OK and the saw starts up fine, otherwise there is a lot of
chattering, sparking, chuntering from the saw motor and nothing
happens.

I jury rigged the original contactor to see if it is something to do
with the change of site and it operates fine - pulls in perfectly each
time.

This is a 240v single phase system.

Anyone any ideas before I go the the bother of fitting the old, and
operating, contactor into the 'new' starter box, and dumping the 'new'
one.

snip


One of the common arrangements in 3-phase "boxed" contactors, with
buttons on them, is to use a coil with a voltage around 400v, operated
across the incoming phases. Trying to use one of those on 230v would give
symptoms similar to those that you are getting. There is insufficient
magnetism to completely close the contacts and they burn up!

The A12-30-10 has 3 main poles and one normally open auxiliary. IIRC the
main poles are 1-2 3-4 5-6, the coil is A1-A2 and the auxiliary is 13-14
(although I may be wrong on some of those - the catalogue is at work).
They are sold in a range of coil voltages, and the voltage/frequency is
marked on the coil, visible through a window on one side of the contactor
IIRC. The A12 bit is the contactor rating. In this case it's 11A AC3
(motors inching & plugging). If you are tracing the wiring note that
there are A2 terminals at both top and bottom (internally linked) to make
wiring easier.

You have to have a means of disconnection (i.e. a contactor) with an
electronic controller because they don't isolate the motor so can't be
used with an emergency stop system safely. Some of the controllers
actually include their own contactor inside the housing.

--
Mick (Working in a M$-free zone!)
Web: http://www.nascom.info
Filtering everything posted from googlegroups to kill spam.

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 06:55:36 -0700, Rob G wrote:

Thoroughly recommend these inverters - once you've gone up the required
learning curve they really are great for running a 3 ph motor at
variable speed.

On a related note I've just got into electric radio control planes again
after a long break - they now use 3ph AC brushless motors instead of the
old brushed DC jobs. The on-topic bit is that they now have tiny
electronic speed controllers which don't have the problems DC controllers
had - since they are only effectively PWM switching three sets of DC to
get the 'phases' the controller itself needs no heatsinking and uses very
little power.

If anyone needs a small motor with very high power/weight (150W from a
1.5" diameter 1" end to end motor, up to 1KW or so if you want) with a
simple speed controller then they are well worth a look.

The electronic speed controller (ESC) takes RC servo control signals, but
that's basically a variable length pulse train - you can get 'servo
testers' which would just give you a knob to twist. And any number of
microcontroller boards will drive them directly...

The ESC is programmable as well - several levels of soft starting, motor
braking, low battery protection etc etc. And no end of gearboxes, toothed
belt drive pulleys etc. available if you need them.

I'll shut up now. ;-)