As per my previous post I am having some problems with a failed circulating
pump (fully pumped system).
Problem now diagnosed as a failed pump.
So drain system.
Shut supply to expansion tank. Stopcock seized (will replace with 1/4 turn
lever arm ball valve). Drop of oil round shaft and gently back & forth,
done.
3 drain points. All very inaccessible but working. Ok & done.
4th drain cock on a ground floor rad, the hose outlet is touching the wall
and the valve is touching a very nice parquet floor.
Gentle prying has let me fit a hose and unscrew the valve.
Valve does not release water although the rad is full as are 3 storeys
above, valve mechanism appears to be seized solid.
Have tried mole grips on the valve stem and gentle tap. Result, weep from
feed to rad.

I think tomorrow I will clear the immediate area, put down plenty of
polythene sheet, find suitable containers to gather and release the pipe
fitting to the rad valve.
When empty I will remake the fitting to the rad valve with a ballofix type
fitting tee'd off.

Any suggestions please, particularly to avoid the water spillage expected.

Many thanks,
Francis.

"Francis" wrote in message
...
As per my previous post I am having some problems with a failed
circulating
pump (fully pumped system).
Problem now diagnosed as a failed pump.
So drain system.

Is there not shut off valves either side of the pump?

Shut supply to expansion tank. Stopcock seized (will replace with 1/4 turn
lever arm ball valve). Drop of oil round shaft and gently back & forth,
done.
3 drain points. All very inaccessible but working. Ok & done.
4th drain cock on a ground floor rad, the hose outlet is touching the wall
and the valve is touching a very nice parquet floor.
Gentle prying has let me fit a hose and unscrew the valve.


Valve does not release water although the rad is full as are 3 storeys
above, valve mechanism appears to be seized solid.
Have tried mole grips on the valve stem and gentle tap. Result, weep from
feed to rad.

I think tomorrow I will clear the immediate area, put down plenty of
polythene sheet, find suitable containers to gather and release the pipe
fitting to the rad valve.
When empty I will remake the fitting to the rad valve with a ballofix type
fitting tee'd off.

Any suggestions please, particularly to avoid the water spillage expected.

Many thanks,
Francis.

Any suggestions please, particularly to avoid the water spillage expected.

Many thanks,
Francis.

Wet and dry vac.. Put something like a tupperware box or even a plastic tray
under the radiator connection so that it catches the water, use the vac to
keep the container from overflowing. You can adjust the flow from the union
by loosening or tightening by hand. Wet and dry vac, the single most useful
tool for plumbing. (My teenager blocked the waste disposal unit the other
day, and trying to be helpful (or stop me finding out) disconnected the trap
below, flooding the cupboard. What he *should* have done is emptied the sink
and waste disposer with the wet and dry vac before going further).

Newshound wrote:
Any suggestions please, particularly to avoid the water spillage
expected. Many thanks,
Francis.

Wet and dry vac.. Put something like a tupperware box or even a
plastic tray under the radiator connection so that it catches the
water, use the vac to keep the container from overflowing. You can
adjust the flow from the union by loosening or tightening by hand.
Wet and dry vac, the single most useful tool for plumbing.

Agreed 110%. Mine is always on the van. Rads, cisterns, drains etc. Don't
leave home without one.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om...
Newshound wrote:
Any suggestions please, particularly to avoid the water spillage
expected. Many thanks,
Francis.

Wet and dry vac.. Put something like a tupperware box or even a
plastic tray under the radiator connection so that it catches the
water, use the vac to keep the container from overflowing. You can
adjust the flow from the union by loosening or tightening by hand.
Wet and dry vac, the single most useful tool for plumbing.

Agreed 110%. Mine is always on the van. Rads, cisterns, drains etc.
Don't leave home without one.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk



If I was designing a C/H system I would want a fixed drain pipe going
outside - with a isolating valve inside. It is plain daft that we put up
with poor drain cocks inside our rooms.

Francis wrote:
tale of woe

Actually I think you should count your blessings that you have CH
draincocks at all... I've lived in several places where unbelievably the
installers have scrimped on the cost of fitting them, and I've had to do
the whole drain-down through disconnected rads. Try doing that with no
mess...

David

John wrote:

If I was designing a C/H system I would want a fixed drain pipe going
outside - with a isolating valve inside. It is plain daft that we put up
with poor drain cocks inside our rooms.

For some reason I can remember a piece by the 'inventor' Bob Symes on
Tomorrow's World circa 1985, demonstrating his "house of the future" -
among other things, he has just such a system, with the CH draining into
a gully outside. I can remember at the time thinking what a totally
simple but sensible idea.

David

On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 09:28:42 +0100, Lobster
wrote:

For some reason I can remember a piece by the 'inventor' Bob Symes on
Tomorrow's World circa 1985, demonstrating his "house of the future" -
among other things, he has just such a system, with the CH draining into
a gully outside. I can remember at the time thinking what a totally
simple but sensible idea.

David

The couple of times I've drained down my hot water storage tank, just recently
because it was gradually slipping through the floor, I've drilled a hole in the
kitchen ceiling and run the hose down and out the back door ! Crazy system.

Andy C

On Jul 24, 10:05*am, Andy Cap wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 09:28:42 +0100, Lobster
wrote:

For some reason I can remember a piece by the 'inventor' Bob Symes on
Tomorrow's World circa 1985, demonstrating his "house of the future" -
among other things, he has just such a system, with the CH draining into
a gully outside. *I can remember at the time thinking what a totally
simple but sensible idea.

David

The couple of times I've drained down my hot water storage tank, just recently
because it was gradually slipping through the floor, I've drilled a hole in the
kitchen ceiling and run the hose down and out the back door ! Crazy system.

Andy C

Each to their own. I do it by opening the hot taps!

MBQ

"Francis" wrote in message
...
As per my previous post I am having some problems with a failed
circulating pump (fully pumped system).
Problem now diagnosed as a failed pump.
So drain system.
Shut supply to expansion tank. Stopcock seized (will replace with 1/4 turn
lever arm ball valve). Drop of oil round shaft and gently back & forth,
done.
3 drain points. All very inaccessible but working. Ok & done.
4th drain cock on a ground floor rad, the hose outlet is touching the wall
and the valve is touching a very nice parquet floor.
Gentle prying has let me fit a hose and unscrew the valve.
Valve does not release water although the rad is full as are 3 storeys
above, valve mechanism appears to be seized solid.
Have tried mole grips on the valve stem and gentle tap. Result, weep from
feed to rad.

I think tomorrow I will clear the immediate area, put down plenty of
polythene sheet, find suitable containers to gather and release the pipe
fitting to the rad valve.
When empty I will remake the fitting to the rad valve with a ballofix type
fitting tee'd off.

Any suggestions please, particularly to avoid the water spillage expected.

Many thanks,
Francis.


Bung the system and replace the seized rad valve with a better drain off
valve. Then drain as normal.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Man at B&Q wrote:

On Jul 24, 10:05 am, Andy Cap wrote:

The couple of times I've drained down my hot water storage tank,
just recently because it was gradually slipping through the floor,
I've drilled a hole in the kitchen ceiling and run the hose down and
out the back door ! Crazy system.

Andy C

Each to their own. I do it by opening the hot taps!

MBQ


.. . . except that that doesn't actually empty the hot cylinder - only the
cold header tank!
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 02:35:35 -0700 (PDT), "Man at B&Q"
wrote:


Each to their own. I do it by opening the hot taps!

MBQ

You'd be there all day then ! ;-)

Andy C

"Francis" wrote
snip................

I think tomorrow I will clear the immediate area, put down plenty of
polythene sheet, find suitable containers to gather and release the pipe
fitting to the rad valve.
When empty I will remake the fitting to the rad valve with a ballofix type
fitting tee'd off.

Any suggestions please, particularly to avoid the water spillage expected.

Many thanks,
Francis.

One "blue peter" style accessory I find useful for radiator draining is a
strip of lino!
Cut a piece approx 3" wide x 10" long.
Cut a slot in the middle of one end 16mm wide x 75mm long (yes I know, mixed
units!).
When you come to loosen the rad valve connecting union, push the lino up
under the valve so that the slot rests above the valve tail pipe compression
nut IYSWIM. Direct the bottom end of the lino strip into a bowl.
The lino then catches water as it falls from the rad connecting union and
directs it into the bowl below.

Phil

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Francis"
saying something like:

Any suggestions please,

As to the "why put them in such damn stupid places" query, it's because,
as in so much else, the installer doesn't think about subsequent ease of
use.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Francis wrote:

As per my previous post I am having some problems with a failed
circulating pump (fully pumped system).
Problem now diagnosed as a failed pump.
So drain system.
Shut supply to expansion tank. Stopcock seized (will replace with 1/4
turn lever arm ball valve). Drop of oil round shaft and gently back &
forth, done.
3 drain points. All very inaccessible but working. Ok & done.
4th drain cock on a ground floor rad, the hose outlet is touching the
wall and the valve is touching a very nice parquet floor.
Gentle prying has let me fit a hose and unscrew the valve.
Valve does not release water although the rad is full as are 3 storeys
above, valve mechanism appears to be seized solid.
Have tried mole grips on the valve stem and gentle tap. Result, weep
from feed to rad.

I think tomorrow I will clear the immediate area, put down plenty of
polythene sheet, find suitable containers to gather and release the
pipe fitting to the rad valve.
When empty I will remake the fitting to the rad valve with a ballofix
type fitting tee'd off.

Any suggestions please, particularly to avoid the water spillage
expected.
Many thanks,
Francis.

As others have said, you should have isolation valves either side of the
pump. If so, you don't need to drain *anything* - just shut them and remove
the pump.

Even if you don't have isolation valves, you don't need to drain very much -
and certainly nothing that's *below* pump level. Where is the pump -
presumably in an airing cupboard on the first(?) floor?

It sounds like you've already turned off the feed to the fill & expansion
tank - which is a good start. [If the tap doesn't work, you can always tie
the ballvalve up.] The F&E tank will have a pipe going out of the bottom to
feed the system, and an expansion pipe looping over the top. Block both of
these off with corks. Every radiator in the house should have two valves -
one with a knob you can turn and the other (lockshield) which needs a
spanner to adjust. Turn off *all* of the valves, noting how many turns each
lockshield valve takes, so that you can restore them to the same position.
This will keep all the radiators full of water, and avoid any need to drain
them.

Now, if you break a joint near the pump you will get very little water
coming out - only that contained by the immediate pipework. When it stops
running, you can remove the pump. While you're at it, fit islation valves to
make it easier next time.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

"Man at B&Q" wrote in message
...


The couple of times I've drained down my hot water storage tank, just
recently
because it was gradually slipping through the floor, I've drilled a hole
in the
kitchen ceiling and run the hose down and out the back door ! Crazy
system.

Andy C

Each to their own. I do it by opening the hot taps!

Don't try and do anything on the tank then as it is still full.

MBQ

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
TheScullster wrote:


One "blue peter" style accessory I find useful for radiator draining
is a strip of lino!
Cut a piece approx 3" wide x 10" long.
Cut a slot in the middle of one end 16mm wide x 75mm long (yes I
know, mixed units!).
When you come to loosen the rad valve connecting union, push the lino
up under the valve so that the slot rests above the valve tail pipe
compression nut IYSWIM. Direct the bottom end of the lino strip into
a bowl. The lino then catches water as it falls from the rad connecting
union
and directs it into the bowl below.

Phil

Sounds like the sort of thing which allows women to pee into urinals. g
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

"Roger Mills" wrote


Sounds like the sort of thing which allows women to pee into urinals. g
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Sounds like someone's spending too much time with their head buried in
"water sports weekly"

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Francis"
saying something like:

Any suggestions please,

As to the "why put them in such damn stupid places" query, it's
because, as in so much else, the installer doesn't think about
subsequent ease of use.

I find houses are rarely built with future maintenance in mind.

My folks CH system didn't have a drain plug in the existing single pipe
system at all and the easiest way to drain it all down before putting a
drain valve on a rad was to drill a hole in an existing rad and drain off
through the hole, replacing with a new rad. A bit extreme I know, but saved
getting filthy water all over the carpet.

Lobster wrote:
For some reason I can remember a piece by the 'inventor' Bob Symes on
Tomorrow's World circa 1985, demonstrating his "house of the future" -
among other things, he has just such a system, with the CH draining into
a gully outside. I can remember at the time thinking what a totally
simple but sensible idea.

A tap with a hoselock fitting would work quite well.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "TheScullster"
saying something like:

One "blue peter" style accessory I find useful for radiator draining is a
strip of lino!
Cut a piece approx 3" wide x 10" long.
Cut a slot in the middle of one end 16mm wide x 75mm long (yes I know, mixed
units!).
When you come to loosen the rad valve connecting union, push the lino up
under the valve so that the slot rests above the valve tail pipe compression
nut IYSWIM. Direct the bottom end of the lino strip into a bowl.
The lino then catches water as it falls from the rad connecting union and
directs it into the bowl below.

Or you can always find a bit of cardboard if no lino is around.
Used the above method many times.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "TheScullster"
saying something like:

One "blue peter" style accessory I find useful for radiator draining
is a strip of lino!
Cut a piece approx 3" wide x 10" long.
Cut a slot in the middle of one end 16mm wide x 75mm long (yes I
know, mixed units!).
When you come to loosen the rad valve connecting union, push the
lino up under the valve so that the slot rests above the valve tail
pipe compression nut IYSWIM. Direct the bottom end of the lino
strip into a bowl.
The lino then catches water as it falls from the rad connecting
union and directs it into the bowl below.

Or you can always find a bit of cardboard if no lino is around.
Used the above method many times.


I prefer a suitably re-styled aluminium foil Chinese food container.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

On Jul 24, 12:01*am, "Francis" wrote:
Any suggestions please, particularly
to avoid the water spillage expected.

Pipe Freezer Spray.
--
Jason.

On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 09:05:06 +0100, "John" wrote:


If I was designing a C/H system I would want a fixed drain pipe going
outside - with a isolating valve inside.

I had to drain two separate loops (CH and DHW) so have a couple of valves under
a trap door in the ground floor:-
http://www.diy.110mb.com/drains.jpg

--
Geo

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Geo wrote:

On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 09:05:06 +0100, "John"
wrote:


If I was designing a C/H system I would want a fixed drain pipe
going outside - with a isolating valve inside.

I had to drain two separate loops (CH and DHW) so have a couple of
valves under a trap door in the ground floor:-
http://www.diy.110mb.com/drains.jpg

That's fine if you've got a suspended floor downstairs, but not so good with
solid floors.

I've got solid floors, with the CH being distributed between the floors, and
pipes dropping down to each rad. There's no way that I can drain the whole
system from a single point. I've got drain-off lockshields fitted to each
rad, so it's easy enough to drain each leg - but not practical to take
permanently installed drain pipes to the outside world.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!