I am putting in a small cloakroom style toilet room with WC and basin.
Extractor fan via kitchen to outside. Purge ventilation via hallway
and front door.
But, how can you provide trickle ventilation in this situation ?
I guess an ensuite is similar, but I dont know if the same rules
apply.
Thanks,
Simon.

sm_jamieson coughed up some electrons that declared:

I am putting in a small cloakroom style toilet room with WC and basin.
Extractor fan via kitchen to outside. Purge ventilation via hallway
and front door.
But, how can you provide trickle ventilation in this situation ?
I guess an ensuite is similar, but I dont know if the same rules
apply.
Thanks,
Simon.

Do you need to?

Tim S wrote:
sm_jamieson coughed up some electrons that declared:

I am putting in a small cloakroom style toilet room with WC and basin.
Extractor fan via kitchen to outside. Purge ventilation via hallway
and front door.
But, how can you provide trickle ventilation in this situation ?
I guess an ensuite is similar, but I dont know if the same rules
apply.
Thanks,
Simon.

Do you need to?


Yes. But its catered for simply by having a a 'leaky' door There is some
building regs figure for vents in doors and suchlike that covers this case.

On 1 June, 23:40, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Tim S wrote:
sm_jamieson coughed up some electrons that declared:

I am putting in a small cloakroom style toilet room with WC and basin.
Extractor fan via kitchen to outside. Purge ventilation via hallway
and front door.
But, how can you provide trickle ventilation in this situation ?
I guess an ensuite is similar, but I dont know if the same rules
apply.
Thanks,
Simon.

Do you need to?

Yes. But its catered for simply by having a a 'leaky' door There is some
building regs figure for vents in doors and suchlike that covers this case.

OK thanks.
Only trying to cover all bases on the spec, since BCO was fussy last
time about missing info.

Cheers,
Simon.

The Natural Philosopher coughed up some electrons that declared:

Yes. But its catered for simply by having a a 'leaky' door There is some
building regs figure for vents in doors and suchlike that covers this
case.

Vents as opposed to the natural gap under the door? Personally I wasn't
going to bother - the doors on mine will be leaky enough without any extra
help.

Cheers

Tim

On 2 June, 09:08, Tim S wrote:
The Natural Philosopher coughed up some electrons that declared:

Yes. But its catered for simply by having a a 'leaky' door There is some
building regs figure for vents in doors and suchlike that covers this
case.

Vents as opposed to the natural gap under the door? Personally I wasn't
going to bother - the doors on mine will be leaky enough without any extra
help.

Cheers

Tim

I had assumed gaps under doors would be sufficient. Its a bit weird
with a toilet, as noise insulation regs and trickle vent regs are in
conflict.
I'll put some general statement on the spec as "blah blah will be
provided", and then do nothing and see if BCO says anything. I wonder
it trickle vent could be supplied via the extractor fan route. I
reckon there would be some leakage there anyway, surely ?
Simon.

Tim S wrote:
The Natural Philosopher coughed up some electrons that declared:

Yes. But its catered for simply by having a a 'leaky' door There is some
building regs figure for vents in doors and suchlike that covers this
case.

Vents as opposed to the natural gap under the door? Personally I wasn't
going to bother - the doors on mine will be leaky enough without any extra
help.


Probably good enough then. I think the 'vents must be high' bollox
doesn't apply to internal ventilation.

Cheers

Tim

wrote:
On 2 June, 09:08, Tim S wrote:
The Natural Philosopher coughed up some electrons that declared:

Yes. But its catered for simply by having a a 'leaky' door There is some
building regs figure for vents in doors and suchlike that covers this
case.
Vents as opposed to the natural gap under the door? Personally I wasn't
going to bother - the doors on mine will be leaky enough without any extra
help.

Cheers

Tim

I had assumed gaps under doors would be sufficient. Its a bit weird
with a toilet, as noise insulation regs and trickle vent regs are in
conflict.

No!

lets have a cometition for how many building resg are in conflict..

'lighst switches must be accessible to people in wheel chairs'
'light switches must be well out of reach of someone with a hand on a tap'
'Insulation must be to a U value well below the effecctive U value of te
required air change ventilation'.

I'll put some general statement on the spec as "blah blah will be
provided", and then do nothing and see if BCO says anything. I wonder
it trickle vent could be supplied via the extractor fan route. I
reckon there would be some leakage there anyway, surely ?
Simon.

TBH leave a gap under the door, or punch a vent to outside.

coughed up some electrons that declared:


I had assumed gaps under doors would be sufficient. Its a bit weird
with a toilet, as noise insulation regs and trickle vent regs are in
conflict.
I'll put some general statement on the spec as "blah blah will be
provided", and then do nothing and see if BCO says anything. I wonder
it trickle vent could be supplied via the extractor fan route. I
reckon there would be some leakage there anyway, surely ?
Simon.

It's all getting rather gay.

Unless you and I manage to build hermetically sealed bulkhead doors and go
to sleep on the bog for mumble hours thus running out of oxygen, it seems
like total nonsense.

As a matter of course I'm ignoring anything to do with noise reduction and
most of the ventilation stuff, save for basic extraction in bathrooms and
of course (gas/wood) burner related ventilation - that stuff *is* actually
important.

Fortunately I don't think my BCO gives a stuff about that so I won;t bring
it up and I doubt he'll ask.

Cheers

Tim

On 2 June, 18:04, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
wrote:
On 2 June, 09:08, Tim S wrote:
The Natural Philosopher coughed up some electrons that declared:

Yes. But its catered for simply by having a a 'leaky' door There is some
building regs figure for vents in doors and suchlike that covers this
case.
Vents as opposed to the natural gap under the door? Personally I wasn't
going to bother - the doors on mine will be leaky enough without any extra
help.

Cheers

Tim

I had assumed gaps under doors would be sufficient. Its a bit weird
with a toilet, as noise insulation regs and trickle vent regs are in
conflict.

No!

lets have a cometition for how many building resg are in conflict..

'lighst switches must be accessible to people in wheel chairs'
* 'light switches must be well out of reach of someone with a hand on a tap'
'Insulation must be to a U value well below the effecctive U value of te
required air change ventilation'.

I'll put some general statement on the spec as "blah blah will be
provided", and then do nothing and see if BCO says anything. I wonder
it trickle vent could be supplied via the extractor fan route. I
reckon there would be some leakage there anyway, surely ?
Simon.

TBH leave a gap under the door, or punch a vent to outside.
Judging my my door hanging skills, there will be a gap around the door
anyway ;-
Simon.

On 2 June, 23:12, Tim S wrote:
coughed up some electrons that declared:



I had assumed gaps under doors would be sufficient. Its a bit weird
with a toilet, as noise insulation regs and trickle vent regs are in
conflict.
I'll put some general statement on the spec as "blah blah will be
provided", and then do nothing and see if BCO says anything. I wonder
it trickle vent could be supplied via the extractor fan route. I
reckon there would be some leakage there anyway, surely ?
Simon.

It's all getting rather gay.

Unless you and I manage to build hermetically sealed bulkhead doors and go
to sleep on the bog for mumble hours thus running out of oxygen, it seems
like total nonsense.

As a matter of course I'm ignoring anything to do with noise reduction and
most of the ventilation stuff, save for basic extraction in bathrooms and
of course (gas/wood) burner related ventilation - that stuff *is* actually
important.

Fortunately I don't think my BCO gives a stuff about that so I won;t bring
it up and I doubt he'll ask.

Cheers

Tim

Hah !
I had to do written calculations for purge ventilation and U values
for my full plans.
Thats the problem with full plans. I'm sure more is let slip on a
building notice.
Simon.

On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 12:04:17 -0700 (PDT), a certain chimpanzee,
sm_jamieson randomly hit a keyboard and
produced:

I am putting in a small cloakroom style toilet room with WC and basin.
Extractor fan via kitchen to outside. Purge ventilation via hallway
and front door.
But, how can you provide trickle ventilation in this situation ?

When you say, "extractor fan via kitchen", you do mean through a duct
to the outside I hope? Similarly, purge ventilation has to be directly
to the outside, not via a hall.

If you have a windowless WC, you need a 6 litres/sec fan to the
outside with a 15 minute over-run.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no one on the Internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed?"

Hugo Nebula wrote:
On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 12:04:17 -0700 (PDT), a certain chimpanzee,
sm_jamieson randomly hit a keyboard and
produced:

I am putting in a small cloakroom style toilet room with WC and basin.
Extractor fan via kitchen to outside. Purge ventilation via hallway
and front door.
But, how can you provide trickle ventilation in this situation ?

When you say, "extractor fan via kitchen", you do mean through a duct
to the outside I hope? Similarly, purge ventilation has to be directly
to the outside, not via a hall.


Er no, that bit doesnt.
If it means what I think it does.

If you have a windowless WC, you need a 6 litres/sec fan to the
outside with a 15 minute over-run.

Something along those lines, and that's just to meet regulations. Now
when the cats crap in it...

On Tue, 02 Jun 2009 18:04:45 +0100, a certain chimpanzee, The Natural
Philosopher randomly hit a keyboard and
produced:

lets have a cometition for how many building resg are in conflict..

'lighst switches must be accessible to people in wheel chairs'
'light switches must be well out of reach of someone with a hand on a tap'

The only 'requirement' for light switches being out of reach of
someone with their hand on a tap is in bathrooms. That gives a 'zone'
of nn.nn metres in an arc around the tap. It's perfectly possible to
have a light switch between 450mm-1200mm above the floor provided it's
outside the 'zone'.

'Insulation must be to a U value well below the effecctive U value of te
required air change ventilation'.

Eh? I presume you're refering to... Sorry, no, your sentence doesn't
work in English.

I suspect you're disparaging what is referred to as, "build tight,
ventilate right". The 'old' way of building meant that ventilation was
provided by windows leaking, gaps between bricks & blocks, cracks in
walls, floors and ceilings allowing air and heat through. None of this
mattered as occupants needed to burn so much coal or gas to heat their
thin solid walls that the small extra amount of energy needed to heat
all the air leaking out was small by comparison.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no one on the Internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed?"

On 3 June, 20:17, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Hugo Nebula wrote:
On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 12:04:17 -0700 (PDT), a certain chimpanzee,
sm_jamieson randomly hit a keyboard and
produced:

I am putting in a small cloakroom style toilet room with WC and basin.
Extractor fan via kitchen to outside. Purge ventilation via hallway
and front door.
But, how can you provide trickle ventilation in this situation ?

When you say, "extractor fan via kitchen", you do mean through a duct
to the outside I hope? Similarly, purge ventilation has to be directly
to the outside, not via a hall.

Er no, that bit *doesnt.
If it means what I think it does.

Extractor via duct through kitchen, yes. Although I heard of an
extractor fan through the kitchen window, into the conservatory ! Of
course fan there before the conny was.
2 rooms can be taken together for purge ventilation if one does not
have windows (just checked in the approved doc)
So I can purge vent the toilet through the hall but perhaps not via 2
other rooms.


If you have a windowless WC, you need a 6 litres/sec fan to the
outside with a 15 minute over-run.

Something along those lines, and that's just to meet regulations. Now
when the cats crap in it...

Some fan with overrun yes. Don't think a tiny bog needs 15 min over-
run in reality. How many air changes is that ?
Simon.

On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 15:48:00 -0700 (PDT), a certain chimpanzee,
randomly hit a keyboard and produced:

2 rooms can be taken together for purge ventilation if one does not
have windows (just checked in the approved doc)
So I can purge vent the toilet through the hall but perhaps not via 2
other rooms.

And no door between the two. How exhibitionist are you?

Some fan with overrun yes. Don't think a tiny bog needs 15 min over-
run in reality. How many air changes is that ?

That's what it says in the AD, and if you want your plans passing,
it's best to say that.

Most fans come with a variable timer, usually from one or two minutes
to 20. Set it to 15 until the BCO signs off your work, then set it to
whatever is needed to get rid of the smells.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no one on the Internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed?"

On 4 June, 20:44, Hugo Nebula abuse@localhost wrote:
On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 15:48:00 -0700 (PDT), a certain chimpanzee,
randomly hit a keyboard and produced:

2 rooms can be taken together for purge ventilation if one does not
have windows (just checked in the approved doc)
So *I can purge vent the toilet through the hall but perhaps not via 2
other rooms.

And no door between the two. How exhibitionist are you?


Ha ha.
I had thought of a single door that is a toilet door in one position
and a kitchen door in the other !



Some fan with overrun yes. Don't think a tiny bog needs 15 min over-
run in reality. How many air changes is that ?

That's what it says in the AD, and if you want your plans passing,
it's best to say that.

Most fans come with a variable timer, usually from one or two minutes
to 20. Set it to 15 until the BCO signs off your work, then set it to
whatever is needed to get rid of the smells.
--
Yep, I'll put that in the spec.

Cheers,
Simon.

On Fri, 5 Jun 2009 01:31:36 -0700 (PDT), had
this to say:

On 4 June, 20:44, Hugo Nebula abuse@localhost wrote:
On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 15:48:00 -0700 (PDT), a certain chimpanzee,
randomly hit a keyboard and produced:

2 rooms can be taken together for purge ventilation if one does not
have windows (just checked in the approved doc)
So *I can purge vent the toilet through the hall but perhaps not via 2
other rooms.

And no door between the two. How exhibitionist are you?


Ha ha.
I had thought of a single door that is a toilet door in one position
and a kitchen door in the other !

Like a 2-way switch sort of thing?

:-)
--
Frank Erskine

On 5 June, 11:42, Frank Erskine wrote:
On Fri, 5 Jun 2009 01:31:36 -0700 (PDT), had
this to say:

On 4 June, 20:44, Hugo Nebula abuse@localhost wrote:
On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 15:48:00 -0700 (PDT), a certain chimpanzee,
randomly hit a keyboard and produced:

2 rooms can be taken together for purge ventilation if one does not
have windows (just checked in the approved doc)
So *I can purge vent the toilet through the hall but perhaps not via 2
other rooms.

And no door between the two. How exhibitionist are you?

Ha ha.
I had thought of a single door that is a toilet door in one position
and a kitchen door in the other !

Like a 2-way switch sort of thing?

Yep !
Also I'd like a revolving door that fires you into one of 8 rooms
surrounding it.

I just noticed in part F, purge vent is only required for habitable
rooms, not including kitchens and bathrooms (for which extract
provisions are sufficient).
I think the overrun timer is the vital factor.
Simon.