Have any other businesses on here been bombarded over the past months by
the PRS to get them to fork out for a licence ?


--
geoff

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:46:37 +0000, geoff wrote:

Have any other businesses on here been bombarded over the past months by
the PRS to get them to fork out for a licence ?

Doesn't affect me but I do remember reading about this in the Times :-

http://entertainment.timesonline.co....cle5581353.ece

HTH.
--
Regards,

Hugh Jampton

geoff wrote:


Have any other businesses on here been bombarded over the past months by
the PRS to get them to fork out for a licence ?


Hop on over to uk.legal.moderated and check out this thread:

Kwik-Fit and PRS case (Performing Rights Society)

.... and maybe others.

(Not an answer to your question, but hopefully relevant.)

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On 25 Feb, 20:38, Rod wrote:
geoff wrote:

Have any other businesses on here been bombarded over the past months by
the PRS to get them to fork out for a licence ?

Hop on over to uk.legal.moderated and check out this thread:

Kwik-Fit and PRS case (Performing Rights Society)

... and maybe others.

(Not an answer to your question, but hopefully relevant.)

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

My brother is a one man cabinet maker and he is always moaning about
them pestering him.

Rob

On 25 Feb, 21:12, Rob G wrote:
On 25 Feb, 20:38, Rod wrote:



geoff wrote:

Have any other businesses on here been bombarded over the past months by
the PRS to get them to fork out for a licence ?

Hop on over to uk.legal.moderated and check out this thread:

Kwik-Fit and PRS case (Performing Rights Society)

... and maybe others.

(Not an answer to your question, but hopefully relevant.)

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

My brother is a one man cabinet maker and he is always moaning about
them pestering him.

He could branch out in to two man cabinets, I believe life's much
quieter.

"geoff" wrote in message
...


Have any other businesses on here been bombarded over the past months by
the PRS to get them to fork out for a licence ?

No. They send me just one reminder each year and I pay the licence fee.
Under The Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, there are very few
businesses that are not liable to obtain a licence. Essentially they are
one-man businesses not open to the public and those that use no copyright
music at all in any form, including playing a radio in the workplace and
music on hold telephones..

Colin Bignell.

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 21:33:43 -0000, "nightjar" cpb@insert my surname
here.me.uk wrote:

Under The Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, there are very few
businesses that are not liable to obtain a licence. Essentially they are
one-man businesses not open to the public and those that use no copyright
music at all in any form, including playing a radio in the workplace and
music on hold telephones..

There are many copyright free "music on hold" discs available for
purchase for telephone use and many similar audible wallpaper discs.

In article , geoff
scribeth thus


Have any other businesses on here been bombarded over the past months by
the PRS to get them to fork out for a licence ?



Yes they seem to be on a mission!..

We told 'em to sod off as we don't have the public in here anyway!..
--
Tony Sayer

In article ,
Peter Parry wrote:
On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 21:33:43 -0000, "nightjar" cpb@insert my surname
here.me.uk wrote:

Under The Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, there are very few
businesses that are not liable to obtain a licence. Essentially they are
one-man businesses not open to the public and those that use no copyright
music at all in any form, including playing a radio in the workplace and
music on hold telephones..

I did some reseach recently on music on hold for phone systems - just
after Tony Hart died I got a few requests for left bank two (I make phone
systems)... { See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7837849.stm }

You need to buy the music (one off fee - eg. buy it on CD, mp3 format,
etc.)

Then you need an MCPS license - Mechanical Copyright Protection
Society. This is a one-off for each *device* you install it on and is
£35 per 30 seconds of music.

Finally you needs the PRS license and that's variable depending on the
numbe of lines you have. (Number of external lines, not internal as you
don't put your own staff on hold, I guess!)

It's not hard to do, but I gave up in the end.

There are many copyright free "music on hold" discs available for
purchase for telephone use and many similar audible wallpaper discs.

Make sure it's royalty free too. If a band records out of copyright
music the publisher may still have the ability to collect royalties on it.

Personally, I'd not think too bad of it all if I thought the money raised
actually went back to the artists...

Gordon

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , geoff
scribeth thus


Have any other businesses on here been bombarded over the past months by
the PRS to get them to fork out for a licence ?



Yes they seem to be on a mission!..

We told 'em to sod off as we don't have the public in here anyway!..

'We' means that there's more than one of you, so you need a PRS licence.

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:25:38 +0000 (UTC), Gordon Henderson
wrote:

In article ,
Peter Parry wrote:

I did some reseach recently on music on hold for phone systems - just
after Tony Hart died I got a few requests for left bank two (I make phone
systems)... { See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7837849.stm }

You need to buy the music (one off fee - eg. buy it on CD, mp3 format,
etc.)

Both charges you mention and the licence apply only to
performances/music covered by copyright. There are many disks of
classical music available which are copyright free.

Personally, I'd not think too bad of it all if I thought the money raised
actually went back to the artists...

Someone has to pay for the MCPS Directors Bentley :-)

You will be pleased to know that the PRS for Music (MCPS) has kindly
decided not to make a charge for functions of a purely domestic or
family nature, such as wedding receptions, christening parties or
domestic birthday parties.

If there was an award for pompous gittery they would be well placed to
win.

OG coughed up some electrons that declared:


"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , geoff
scribeth thus


Have any other businesses on here been bombarded over the past months by
the PRS to get them to fork out for a licence ?



Yes they seem to be on a mission!..

We told 'em to sod off as we don't have the public in here anyway!..

'We' means that there's more than one of you, so you need a PRS licence.

According to the PRS.

I fail to see how a few people listening to a common radio constitutes
a "performance", especially given the radio station has already paid to
broadcast the music.

Could do with a few more people telling them to sod off - it is a completely
ridiculous notion.

geoff wrote:
Have any other businesses on here been bombarded over the past months
by the PRS to get them to fork out for a licence ?


Just out of curiosity, would the PRS be entitled to copyright fees from the
hairy arsed, sole trader builder/plasterer/carpenter/bricklayer/handyman et
al who whilst working on your property in a row of terraced houses next to a
busy public highway, has his portable DeWalt (or any other for that matter)
radio blasting out Radio One rubbish so that all and sundry can hear it for
miles around?

You now the type, turns the radio up to full volume and then wears ear
protectors - just in case that spent matchstick he/she has used to light her
fag and thrown on the floor, makes a noise!


Big Grin

Big Grin wrote:

geoff wrote:
Have any other businesses on here been bombarded over the past
months by the PRS to get them to fork out for a licence ?


Just out of curiosity, would the PRS be entitled to copyright fees
from the hairy arsed, sole trader
builder/plasterer/carpenter/bricklayer/handyman et al who whilst
working on your property in a row of terraced houses next to a busy
public highway, has his portable DeWalt (or any other for that
matter) radio blasting out Radio One rubbish so that all and sundry
can hear it for miles around?

You now the type, turns the radio up to full volume and then wears
ear protectors - just in case that spent matchstick he/she has used
to light her fag and thrown on the floor, makes a noise!


Big Grin

according the kwik fit case - yes.

"geoff" wrote in message
...


Have any other businesses on here been bombarded over the past months by
the PRS to get them to fork out for a licence ?


--
geoff

I know of several businesses locally. Friend's garage got done, because they
were listening to the radio on a car that was in for a service, with the
doors open ...

Boss has now banned any car from having the radio on during the garage's
normal opening hours.

Arfa

On 25 Feb, 20:46, geoff wrote:
Have any other businesses on here been bombarded over the past months by
the PRS to get them to fork out for a licence ?

--
geoff

Not a business myself, but I noticed yesterday that my barber now has
a bright yellow PRS licence over his radio, so they're obviously
"doing" round here. I was going to remark on it to him, but the
conversation went on to other things.

Chris

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:46:37 +0000 someone who may be geoff
wrote this:-

Have any other businesses on here been bombarded over the past months by
the PRS to get them to fork out for a licence ?

Used to get junk mail from these people. Recycled it.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:30:30 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

Not a business myself, but I noticed yesterday that my barber now has
a bright yellow PRS licence over his radio, so they're obviously
"doing" round here. I was going to remark on it to him, but the
conversation went on to other things.

Holidays?
Something for the weekend?

--
Frank Erskine

Big Grin wrote:
geoff wrote:
Have any other businesses on here been bombarded over the past months
by the PRS to get them to fork out for a licence ?


Just out of curiosity, would the PRS be entitled to copyright fees
from the hairy arsed, sole trader

My arse isn't hairy but...

builder/plasterer/carpenter/bricklayer/handyman et

Could be me...

al who whilst
working on your property in a row of terraced houses next to a busy
public highway, has his portable DeWalt (or any other for that
matter) radio blasting out Radio One rubbish so that all and sundry
can hear it for miles around?

How about a Sony DAB tuned to Radio 4?


You now the type, turns the radio up to full volume and then wears ear
protectors - just in case that spent matchstick he/she has used to
light her fag and thrown on the floor, makes a noise!

I use the matchsticks for plugging old screw holes :-)


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In article , OG
scribeth thus

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , geoff
scribeth thus


Have any other businesses on here been bombarded over the past months by
the PRS to get them to fork out for a licence ?



Yes they seem to be on a mission!..

We told 'em to sod off as we don't have the public in here anyway!..

'We' means that there's more than one of you, so you need a PRS licence.


We as in us me, I, myself, and I ..

Well if HM can use it so can I .. the missus sometimes has been known to
bring some tea in;!....
--
Tony Sayer

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , OG
scribeth thus

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , geoff
scribeth thus


Have any other businesses on here been bombarded over the past months by
the PRS to get them to fork out for a licence ?



Yes they seem to be on a mission!..

We told 'em to sod off as we don't have the public in here anyway!..

'We' means that there's more than one of you, so you need a PRS licence.


We as in us me, I, myself, and I ..

Well if HM can use it so can I .. the missus sometimes has been known to
bring some tea in;!....
--
Tony Sayer


I mend hifi and such for a living, so have to play 'real' music as well as
test discs and signal generator outputs etc. Setting aside the fact that I
am a one man band, I wonder if that is theoretically covered by this PRS
stuff ? What about in workshops that have many engineers working in them ?

Arfa

In message , The Medway
Handyman writes
How about a Sony DAB tuned to Radio 4?
Hmm, Friday/Sunday mornings could be a problem but other than that...


--
Clint Sharp

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , OG
scribeth thus

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , geoff
scribeth thus


Have any other businesses on here been bombarded over the past months
by
the PRS to get them to fork out for a licence ?



Yes they seem to be on a mission!..

We told 'em to sod off as we don't have the public in here anyway!..

'We' means that there's more than one of you, so you need a PRS licence.


We as in us me, I, myself, and I ..

Well if HM can use it so can I .. the missus sometimes has been known to
bring some tea in;!....
--
Tony Sayer


I mend hifi and such for a living, so have to play 'real' music as well as
test discs and signal generator outputs etc. Setting aside the fact that I
am a one man band, I wonder if that is theoretically covered by this PRS
stuff ?

Garages are required to have a licence if they listen to a customer's radio
to do any work on it for them, so almost certainly, yes.

What about in workshops that have many engineers working in them ?

The company would be required to declare how many engineers and for how
long, on average, they would be listening to the music each day. The
alternative, mentioned elsewhere, would be to buy royalty-free music for the
purpose.

Colin Bignell

"Tim S" wrote in message
...
....
I fail to see how a few people listening to a common radio constitutes
a "performance", especially given the radio station has already paid to
broadcast the music....

Irrespective of what you may think, that is what the law says.

Colin Bignell

In article ,
nightjar cpb@insert my surname here.me.uk wrote:

"Tim S" wrote in message
...
...
I fail to see how a few people listening to a common radio constitutes
a "performance", especially given the radio station has already paid to
broadcast the music....

Irrespective of what you may think, that is what the law says.

Indeed. Presumably these firms are using radio to give them a benefit of
some sort - so why should they get it for free?

--
*Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , OG
scribeth thus

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , geoff
scribeth thus


Have any other businesses on here been bombarded over the past months
by
the PRS to get them to fork out for a licence ?



Yes they seem to be on a mission!..

We told 'em to sod off as we don't have the public in here anyway!..

'We' means that there's more than one of you, so you need a PRS licence.


We as in us me, I, myself, and I ..

Well if HM can use it so can I .. the missus sometimes has been known to
bring some tea in;!....
--
Tony Sayer


I mend hifi and such for a living, so have to play 'real' music as well
as test discs and signal generator outputs etc. Setting aside the fact
that I am a one man band, I wonder if that is theoretically covered by
this PRS stuff ?

Garages are required to have a licence if they listen to a customer's
radio to do any work on it for them, so almost certainly, yes.

What about in workshops that have many engineers working in them ?

The company would be required to declare how many engineers and for how
long, on average, they would be listening to the music each day. The
alternative, mentioned elsewhere, would be to buy royalty-free music for
the purpose.

Colin Bignell


Unfortunately, such is not broadcast on the radio, so tuner tests would
presumably still fall foul ??

Arfa

In article , Arfa Daily
scribeth thus

"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
m...

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , OG
scribeth thus

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , geoff
scribeth thus


Have any other businesses on here been bombarded over the past months
by
the PRS to get them to fork out for a licence ?



Yes they seem to be on a mission!..

We told 'em to sod off as we don't have the public in here anyway!..

'We' means that there's more than one of you, so you need a PRS licence.


We as in us me, I, myself, and I ..

Well if HM can use it so can I .. the missus sometimes has been known to
bring some tea in;!....
--
Tony Sayer


I mend hifi and such for a living, so have to play 'real' music as well
as test discs and signal generator outputs etc. Setting aside the fact
that I am a one man band, I wonder if that is theoretically covered by
this PRS stuff ?

Garages are required to have a licence if they listen to a customer's
radio to do any work on it for them, so almost certainly, yes.

What about in workshops that have many engineers working in them ?

The company would be required to declare how many engineers and for how
long, on average, they would be listening to the music each day. The
alternative, mentioned elsewhere, would be to buy royalty-free music for
the purpose.

Colin Bignell


Unfortunately, such is not broadcast on the radio, so tuner tests would
presumably still fall foul ??

Arfa



Its more stupid ******** which the UK is getting very good at;(...
--
Tony Sayer

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Arfa Daily
scribeth thus

"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
om...

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , OG
scribeth thus

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , geoff
scribeth thus


Have any other businesses on here been bombarded over the past
months
by
the PRS to get them to fork out for a licence ?



Yes they seem to be on a mission!..

We told 'em to sod off as we don't have the public in here anyway!..

'We' means that there's more than one of you, so you need a PRS
licence.


We as in us me, I, myself, and I ..

Well if HM can use it so can I .. the missus sometimes has been known
to
bring some tea in;!....
--
Tony Sayer


I mend hifi and such for a living, so have to play 'real' music as well
as test discs and signal generator outputs etc. Setting aside the fact
that I am a one man band, I wonder if that is theoretically covered by
this PRS stuff ?

Garages are required to have a licence if they listen to a customer's
radio to do any work on it for them, so almost certainly, yes.

What about in workshops that have many engineers working in them ?

The company would be required to declare how many engineers and for how
long, on average, they would be listening to the music each day. The
alternative, mentioned elsewhere, would be to buy royalty-free music for
the purpose.

Colin Bignell


Unfortunately, such is not broadcast on the radio, so tuner tests would
presumably still fall foul ??

Arfa



Its more stupid ******** which the UK is getting very good at;(...
--
Tony Sayer


I 'spect Drivel will be along in a minute to tell us that there's a reason
for it, and we should stop reading the Daily Mail ... d;~}

Arfa

On Feb 25, 10:49*pm, "OG" wrote:

'We' means that there's more than one of you, so you need a PRS licence.

So what happens if two people are listening to two radios - either
tuned to the same or different stations?

And why don't the PRS go after those buggers on the train who play
their Walkmans/iPods loud enough for other people to hear?

On Feb 26, 10:45*am, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Indeed. Presumably these firms are using radio to give them a benefit of
some sort - so why should they get it for free?


But hasn't it already been paid for by the broadcaster?

And is this why listening to Any Answers or Punt and Dennis on Radio 4
doesn't require a licence? Because no-one could possibly describe it
as a benefit.

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Big Grin wrote:
geoff wrote:
Have any other businesses on here been bombarded over the past
months by the PRS to get them to fork out for a licence ?


Just out of curiosity, would the PRS be entitled to copyright fees
from the hairy arsed, sole trader

Just unblocked you temporarily TMH from the killfile.

My arse isn't hairy but...

Not actually referring to you - but as your ego is so great well...

builder/plasterer/carpenter/bricklayer/handyman et

Could be me...


Up untilI saw Clint Sharp's reply, I had actually forgotten all about you -
but if the boot fits... If the boot doesn't, then he overblown ego still
does!

al who whilst
working on your property in a row of terraced houses next to a busy
public highway, has his portable DeWalt (or any other for that
matter) radio blasting out Radio One rubbish so that all and sundry
can hear it for miles around?

How about a Sony DAB tuned to Radio 4?

So why would the PRS think that Radio Four is any different to Radio one
when you play it publicly?

You now the type, turns the radio up to full volume and then wears
ear protectors - just in case that spent matchstick he/she has used
to light her fag and thrown on the floor, makes a noise!

I use the matchsticks for plugging old screw holes :-)

Whatever turns you on - now you are aware that the end-grain of any wood is
not good for fixing into and there are better methods?

Obviously not - or you have yet to find them in the likes of B & Q!


THM is now returned to the killfile to be forgotten yet again!


Big Grin

In article ,
Big Grin wrote:
THM is now returned to the killfile to be forgotten yet again!

What makes you think who you decide to killfile is of interest to anyone
else?

--
*Can vegetarians eat animal crackers?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"mike" wrote in message
...

But hasn't it already been paid for by the broadcaster?

The broadcaster has paid for the right to transmit the music over the radio.
Their licence fee is calculated upon the expected number of people who will
listen to that transmission. Playing the transmission to others, execpt for
strictly private purposes, is a separate performance of the work, which
increases the number of people listening, and needs its own licence.

Colin Bignell

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...

"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , OG
scribeth thus

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , geoff
scribeth thus


Have any other businesses on here been bombarded over the past months
by
the PRS to get them to fork out for a licence ?



Yes they seem to be on a mission!..

We told 'em to sod off as we don't have the public in here anyway!..

'We' means that there's more than one of you, so you need a PRS
licence.


We as in us me, I, myself, and I ..

Well if HM can use it so can I .. the missus sometimes has been known
to
bring some tea in;!....
--
Tony Sayer


I mend hifi and such for a living, so have to play 'real' music as well
as test discs and signal generator outputs etc. Setting aside the fact
that I am a one man band, I wonder if that is theoretically covered by
this PRS stuff ?

Garages are required to have a licence if they listen to a customer's
radio to do any work on it for them, so almost certainly, yes.

What about in workshops that have many engineers working in them ?

The company would be required to declare how many engineers and for how
long, on average, they would be listening to the music each day. The
alternative, mentioned elsewhere, would be to buy royalty-free music for
the purpose.

Colin Bignell


Unfortunately, such is not broadcast on the radio, so tuner tests would
presumably still fall foul ??

Unless you could rig up something, using royalty-free music, that simulates
a transmission or that transmits and receives within a Faraday cage, yes.

Colin Bignell

On Feb 26, 3:50*pm, "nightjar" cpb@insert my surname here.me.uk
wrote:

The broadcaster has paid for the right to transmit the music over the radio.
Their licence fee is calculated upon the expected number of people who will
listen to that transmission. Playing the transmission to others, execpt for
strictly private purposes, is a separate performance of the work, which
increases the number of people listening, and needs its own licence.


I hear what you say but it seems like a ridiculous way to implement a
law. Surely the expected numbers under the original licence fee
should include the three people in the branch of Kwik-Fit.

Is there any exemption for deaf people? If the second person in the
room couldn't hear the performance, would it still be a performance?

And what if they were both deaf? Could they legally argue they didn't
know the radio was turned on?

I know that's silly but the whole thing seems silly.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Big Grin wrote:
THM is now returned to the killfile to be forgotten yet again!

What makes you think who you decide to killfile is of interest to
anyone else?

If it's of no interest to you, then why respond?


Big Grin

"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"mike" wrote in message
...

But hasn't it already been paid for by the broadcaster?

The broadcaster has paid for the right to transmit the music over the
radio. Their licence fee is calculated upon the expected number of people
who will listen to that transmission. Playing the transmission to others,
execpt for strictly private purposes, is a separate performance of the
work, which increases the number of people listening, and needs its own
licence.

Do the figures for the expected numbers of listeners assume one radio = one
person, or are they more intelligent than that?

In article ,
Big Grin wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Big Grin wrote:
THM is now returned to the killfile to be forgotten yet again!

What makes you think who you decide to killfile is of interest to
anyone else?

If it's of no interest to you, then why respond?

That you feel the need to tell others who you killfile is of interest to
me. Says quite a bit about your character.

--
*Cleaned by Stevie Wonder, checked by David Blunkett*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

nightjar coughed up some electrons that declared:


"Tim S" wrote in message
...
...
I fail to see how a few people listening to a common radio constitutes
a "performance", especially given the radio station has already paid to
broadcast the music....

Irrespective of what you may think, that is what the law says.

Colin Bignell

Given we never heard of this nonsense 10 years back AFAIK, does that mean
the law changed, or has there merely been an "interpretation" made
recently?

Cheers

Tim

Dave Plowman (News) coughed up some electrons that declared:

In article ,
nightjar cpb@insert my surname here.me.uk wrote:

"Tim S" wrote in message
...
...
I fail to see how a few people listening to a common radio constitutes
a "performance", especially given the radio station has already paid to
broadcast the music....

Irrespective of what you may think, that is what the law says.

Indeed. Presumably these firms are using radio to give them a benefit of
some sort - so why should they get it for free?


Because BBC Radion doesn't need a license to listen and commercial radio is
paid for by adverts - more listeners = more people listening to ads???

Tim