Not sure of the correct terminology here, but I'm referring to a night latch
lock
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/42344/...y-60mm-Backset

Guess most people would call it a Yale lock.

Anywho. What I'm after is a purpose made steel reinforcement strip that
goes over the striker plate & is screwed into the door frame. The idea is
to stop the door being forced, the striker plate usually only being held by
three screws.

Someone told me they are called 'London Plates' but Google only returns
china & stuff.

Anyone know what the correct name is?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message om...
Not sure of the correct terminology here, but I'm referring to a
night latch
lock

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/42344/...y-60mm-Backset

Guess most people would call it a Yale lock.

Anywho. What I'm after is a purpose made steel reinforcement strip
that
goes over the striker plate & is screwed into the door frame. The
idea is
to stop the door being forced, the striker plate usually only being
held by
three screws.

Someone told me they are called 'London Plates' but Google only
returns
china & stuff.

Anyone know what the correct name is?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk



London Bar:

http://www.londonbar.co.uk/

Personally I make my own from 1" x 1/4" strip

AWEM

Andrew Mawson wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message om...
Not sure of the correct terminology here, but I'm referring to a
night latch
lock

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/42344/...y-60mm-Backset

Guess most people would call it a Yale lock.

Anywho. What I'm after is a purpose made steel reinforcement strip
that
goes over the striker plate & is screwed into the door frame. The
idea is
to stop the door being forced, the striker plate usually only being
held by
three screws.

Someone told me they are called 'London Plates' but Google only
returns
china & stuff.

Anyone know what the correct name is?


London Bar:

http://www.londonbar.co.uk/

Personally I make my own from 1" x 1/4" strip

AWEM


Screwing stuff to the frame is missing the point, the frame is the
weakest part of the setup. You need to screw through into the masonry
to get decent strength.


NT

In article
,
writes
Andrew Mawson wrote:

London Bar:

http://www.londonbar.co.uk/

Personally I make my own from 1" x 1/4" strip

AWEM


Screwing stuff to the frame is missing the point, the frame is the
weakest part of the setup. You need to screw through into the masonry
to get decent strength.

Not really, without the strengthening that Dave is proposing, the frame
will pop long before it is dislodged from the wall. Once the frame has
been strengthened, then is the time to consider fixing the frame more
securely.

For Dave: I would normally fabricate something like this from 3mm x 40
or 3mm x 25 strip fixed into the frame fixed every 100mm with 75mm
screws but I understand why you would want something off the shelf. The
pretty way to do it is to remove the architrave and strike plate and fit
a thinish (3mm) metal strip under that before reinstating the cosmetic
coverings and filling the gaps.

Andrew's source looks good for ready made but it wont be pretty.
--
fred
BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs

fred wrote:
In article
,
writes
Andrew Mawson wrote:

London Bar:

http://www.londonbar.co.uk/

Personally I make my own from 1" x 1/4" strip

AWEM


Screwing stuff to the frame is missing the point, the frame is the
weakest part of the setup. You need to screw through into the masonry
to get decent strength.

Not really, without the strengthening that Dave is proposing, the frame
will pop long before it is dislodged from the wall. Once the frame has
been strengthened, then is the time to consider fixing the frame more
securely.

Maybe you're thinking of upvc, I'm thinking of timber frames. Strength
of fixing to the wall isn't really an issue there, and has nothing to
do with the frame failure mode.


NT

In article
,
writes
fred wrote:
In article
,
writes
Andrew Mawson wrote:

London Bar:

http://www.londonbar.co.uk/

Personally I make my own from 1" x 1/4" strip

AWEM


Screwing stuff to the frame is missing the point, the frame is the
weakest part of the setup. You need to screw through into the masonry
to get decent strength.

Not really, without the strengthening that Dave is proposing, the frame
will pop long before it is dislodged from the wall. Once the frame has
been strengthened, then is the time to consider fixing the frame more
securely.

Maybe you're thinking of upvc, I'm thinking of timber frames. Strength
of fixing to the wall isn't really an issue there, and has nothing to
do with the frame failure mode.

Definitely not thinking of upvc yuk, no, I'm suggesting making a
timber frame/lock combination as strong as possible by reinforcing the
(easily splinterable) woodwork with steel strip (as Dave has suggested)
as an assembly, then (if deemed necessary) tying the reinforced frame
structure in surrounding brickwork.

The idea being that wood can resist severe attack if you can just stop
it failing by splintering out. Steel strips on long screws into the
edge, bind the frame into a strong composite structure.

It sounded as if you were suggesting long fixings from lock strike into
masonary which doesn't really sound feasible.

Does that make sense?
--
fred
BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs

fred wrote:
In article
,
writes
Andrew Mawson wrote:

London Bar:

http://www.londonbar.co.uk/

Personally I make my own from 1" x 1/4" strip

AWEM


Screwing stuff to the frame is missing the point, the frame is the
weakest part of the setup. You need to screw through into the masonry
to get decent strength.

Not really, without the strengthening that Dave is proposing, the
frame will pop long before it is dislodged from the wall. Once the
frame has been strengthened, then is the time to consider fixing the
frame more securely.

For Dave: I would normally fabricate something like this from 3mm x 40
or 3mm x 25 strip fixed into the frame fixed every 100mm with 75mm
screws but I understand why you would want something off the shelf.
The pretty way to do it is to remove the architrave and strike plate
and fit a thinish (3mm) metal strip under that before reinstating the
cosmetic coverings and filling the gaps.

Andrew's source looks good for ready made but it wont be pretty.

Situation is the student accommodation at the local Uni. 8 blocks each of 4
floors, each floor has two flats. Drunken student forgets keys, uses door
entry intercom to get into block, barges flat door to get in. I usually
repair at least one a week, cut out damaged section, insert new bit, glue &
screw etc.

Trouble is on one door in particular I'm running out of frame to patch :-)


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In article , The Medway
Handyman writes
fred wrote:
In article
,
writes
Andrew Mawson wrote:

London Bar:

http://www.londonbar.co.uk/

Personally I make my own from 1" x 1/4" strip

AWEM


Screwing stuff to the frame is missing the point, the frame is the
weakest part of the setup. You need to screw through into the masonry
to get decent strength.

Not really, without the strengthening that Dave is proposing, the
frame will pop long before it is dislodged from the wall. Once the
frame has been strengthened, then is the time to consider fixing the
frame more securely.

For Dave: I would normally fabricate something like this from 3mm x 40
or 3mm x 25 strip fixed into the frame fixed every 100mm with 75mm
screws but I understand why you would want something off the shelf.
The pretty way to do it is to remove the architrave and strike plate
and fit a thinish (3mm) metal strip under that before reinstating the
cosmetic coverings and filling the gaps.

Andrew's source looks good for ready made but it wont be pretty.

Situation is the student accommodation at the local Uni. 8 blocks each of 4
floors, each floor has two flats. Drunken student forgets keys, uses door
entry intercom to get into block, barges flat door to get in. I usually
repair at least one a week, cut out damaged section, insert new bit, glue &
screw etc.

Trouble is on one door in particular I'm running out of frame to patch :-)

Gotcha, many conflicting interests the
1. Deliberate damage lets the college/uni repair the (criminal) damage
to best security and recover the cost from the criminal.
2. Lowest quote gets the job mentality encourages filling with P38 and
minimal security.
3. TMH wants to do the best job within price constraints to encourage
repeat business.

Best practice for a secure but economic repair would probably be:
4. Cut out the affected section and replace with a dovetailed repair
piece.
5. Add 2mm x 30 steel strip to the of edge of the frame on the inside
with sufficient overlap to reinforce the inset repair. Rebate into the
edge to allow the rimlock strike seat properly.
6. Add another 2mm plate to the face of the frame to reinforce the
splintered section, again rebating to ensure a good fit on the rimlock
strike.
7. Use a good drill and bits to drill the mountings for the strike
through the steel.

Derate to suit the client's budget.

Big screws from the plate into the edge of frame do tighten the job up
noticeably.

A steel stockholder will cut 2mm steel sheet into strip for minimal cost
but it would be up to you to drill holes and countersink ( a bench drill
stand recommended).

In contrast, the London bars are cheap and show visible intent to secure
but without an extra plate on the face of a splintered frame it might
not be enough.
--
fred
BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs

fred wrote:


Andrew's source looks good for ready made but it wont be pretty.

Situation is the student accommodation at the local Uni. 8 blocks
each of 4 floors, each floor has two flats. Drunken student forgets
keys, uses door entry intercom to get into block, barges flat door
to get in. I usually repair at least one a week, cut out damaged
section, insert new bit, glue & screw etc.

Trouble is on one door in particular I'm running out of frame to
patch :-)
Gotcha, many conflicting interests the

1. Deliberate damage lets the college/uni repair the (criminal) damage
to best security and recover the cost from the criminal.

They do 'fine' the residents (each 'flat' has 6 rooms) as a group if they
can't identify the individual culprit. A £60 fine divided by 6 isn't much
of a deterrent though.

2. Lowest quote gets the job mentality encourages filling with P38 and
minimal security.

I'm employed by the day to repair such things & to be honest I'm rarely
stretched. I repair all the reported faults & then revert to
checking/changing tubes, adjusting door closers etc as preventative
maintenance..

3. TMH wants to do the best job within price constraints to encourage
repeat business.

Indeed. Main aim is to keep the contract going smoothly. Best value, best
service.

Best practice for a secure but economic repair would probably be:
4. Cut out the affected section and replace with a dovetailed repair
piece.

Dovetail on the top edge of the damage is rarely possible, the frame
generally splits from below the keep cut out.

SNIP

In contrast, the London bars are cheap and show visible intent to
secure but without an extra plate on the face of a splintered frame
it might not be enough.

Its not a determined burgular, more a drunken student. I reckon the London
Bar would send a message to the students e.g. remember your keys, this door
has been reinforced. Plus they are not that cheap, so a larger 'fine' might
act as more of a deterrant.

As I say though, on one particular door I'm running out of space to patch
it. Solution seems to be one final patch & a London Bar, cos if it splits
again I'm not sure I can repair it.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Feb 25, 4:39*pm, Owain wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Situation is the student accommodation at the local Uni. *8 blocks
each of 4 floors, each floor has two flats. *Drunken student forgets
keys, uses door entry intercom to get into block, barges flat door
to get in.

An alternative might be to secure the outer block door (and cover with
CCTV if possible - wi-fi network cameras are available)
What do you mean by "secure"? Lock so it can't be opened from
inside? That'll just mean it gets propped open. Arrange so that it
can only be opened from inside or with a key? That'll be the default
state.

and put a
timeswitch on the intercom to disable it after say 11pm.

Which makes no difference at all. Student uses mobile phone to ring
same friend who would have answered intercom. You do realize they all
have their mobile phones surgically attached?

Also a £60 'fine' seems ridiculous - students should have to pay the
full cost of the repairs and if it's repeated they should be put out of
the flat (and in extreme cases sent down)

The University would almost certainly find itself being sued if they
tried to send a flat-full of people down because *one* of them broke
the door. I'm rather surprised they can get away with distributing
the fine over the occupants.

The £60 fine would be a deterant if it all had to be paid by a single
student (even if it isn't the full cost).

fred wrote:
In article
,
writes
fred wrote:
In article
,
writes
Andrew Mawson wrote:

London Bar:

http://www.londonbar.co.uk/

Personally I make my own from 1" x 1/4" strip

AWEM


Screwing stuff to the frame is missing the point, the frame is the
weakest part of the setup. You need to screw through into the masonry
to get decent strength.

Not really, without the strengthening that Dave is proposing, the frame
will pop long before it is dislodged from the wall. Once the frame has
been strengthened, then is the time to consider fixing the frame more
securely.

Maybe you're thinking of upvc, I'm thinking of timber frames. Strength
of fixing to the wall isn't really an issue there, and has nothing to
do with the frame failure mode.

Definitely not thinking of upvc yuk, no, I'm suggesting making a
timber frame/lock combination as strong as possible by reinforcing the
(easily splinterable) woodwork with steel strip (as Dave has suggested)
as an assembly, then (if deemed necessary) tying the reinforced frame
structure in surrounding brickwork.

The idea being that wood can resist severe attack if you can just stop
it failing by splintering out. Steel strips on long screws into the
edge, bind the frame into a strong composite structure.

It sounded as if you were suggesting long fixings from lock strike into
masonary which doesn't really sound feasible.

Does that make sense?

yes, I understand - but youre making life hard for yourself. Long
screws on the lock plate that sink all the way into masonry are very
easy to do. Just remove old screws, drill, wallplug, fit new screws. I
didn't find anything difficult about it. Use very small wallplugs to
keep hole size down.


NT

In article
,
writes
fred wrote:
In article
,
writes
fred wrote:
In article

,
writes
Andrew Mawson wrote:

London Bar:

http://www.londonbar.co.uk/

Personally I make my own from 1" x 1/4" strip

AWEM


Screwing stuff to the frame is missing the point, the frame is the
weakest part of the setup. You need to screw through into the masonry
to get decent strength.

Not really, without the strengthening that Dave is proposing, the frame
will pop long before it is dislodged from the wall. Once the frame has
been strengthened, then is the time to consider fixing the frame more
securely.

Maybe you're thinking of upvc, I'm thinking of timber frames. Strength
of fixing to the wall isn't really an issue there, and has nothing to
do with the frame failure mode.

Definitely not thinking of upvc yuk, no, I'm suggesting making a
timber frame/lock combination as strong as possible by reinforcing the
(easily splinterable) woodwork with steel strip (as Dave has suggested)
as an assembly, then (if deemed necessary) tying the reinforced frame
structure in surrounding brickwork.

The idea being that wood can resist severe attack if you can just stop
it failing by splintering out. Steel strips on long screws into the
edge, bind the frame into a strong composite structure.

It sounded as if you were suggesting long fixings from lock strike into
masonary which doesn't really sound feasible.

Does that make sense?

yes, I understand - but youre making life hard for yourself. Long
screws on the lock plate that sink all the way into masonry are very
easy to do. Just remove old screws, drill, wallplug, fit new screws. I
didn't find anything difficult about it. Use very small wallplugs to
keep hole size down.

Under attack, the wood will splinter and the long screws will bend out
of the way, it doesn't take much movement to pop the lock. A reinforced
frame tied into the masonary will survive a far more violent attack.
--
fred
BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs