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Reinforcing night latch
Not sure of the correct terminology here, but I'm referring to a night latch
lock http://www.screwfix.com/prods/42344/...y-60mm-Backset Guess most people would call it a Yale lock. Anywho. What I'm after is a purpose made steel reinforcement strip that goes over the striker plate & is screwed into the door frame. The idea is to stop the door being forced, the striker plate usually only being held by three screws. Someone told me they are called 'London Plates' but Google only returns china & stuff. Anyone know what the correct name is? -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
Reinforcing night latch
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message om... Not sure of the correct terminology here, but I'm referring to a night latch lock http://www.screwfix.com/prods/42344/...y-60mm-Backset Guess most people would call it a Yale lock. Anywho. What I'm after is a purpose made steel reinforcement strip that goes over the striker plate & is screwed into the door frame. The idea is to stop the door being forced, the striker plate usually only being held by three screws. Someone told me they are called 'London Plates' but Google only returns china & stuff. Anyone know what the correct name is? -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk London Bar: http://www.londonbar.co.uk/ Personally I make my own from 1" x 1/4" strip AWEM |
Reinforcing night latch
Andrew Mawson wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message om... Not sure of the correct terminology here, but I'm referring to a night latch lock http://www.screwfix.com/prods/42344/...y-60mm-Backset Guess most people would call it a Yale lock. Anywho. What I'm after is a purpose made steel reinforcement strip that goes over the striker plate & is screwed into the door frame. The idea is to stop the door being forced, the striker plate usually only being held by three screws. Someone told me they are called 'London Plates' but Google only returns china & stuff. Anyone know what the correct name is? London Bar: http://www.londonbar.co.uk/ Personally I make my own from 1" x 1/4" strip AWEM Screwing stuff to the frame is missing the point, the frame is the weakest part of the setup. You need to screw through into the masonry to get decent strength. NT |
Reinforcing night latch
fred wrote:
In article , writes Andrew Mawson wrote: London Bar: http://www.londonbar.co.uk/ Personally I make my own from 1" x 1/4" strip AWEM Screwing stuff to the frame is missing the point, the frame is the weakest part of the setup. You need to screw through into the masonry to get decent strength. Not really, without the strengthening that Dave is proposing, the frame will pop long before it is dislodged from the wall. Once the frame has been strengthened, then is the time to consider fixing the frame more securely. Maybe you're thinking of upvc, I'm thinking of timber frames. Strength of fixing to the wall isn't really an issue there, and has nothing to do with the frame failure mode. NT |
Reinforcing night latch
In article
, writes fred wrote: In article , writes Andrew Mawson wrote: London Bar: http://www.londonbar.co.uk/ Personally I make my own from 1" x 1/4" strip AWEM Screwing stuff to the frame is missing the point, the frame is the weakest part of the setup. You need to screw through into the masonry to get decent strength. Not really, without the strengthening that Dave is proposing, the frame will pop long before it is dislodged from the wall. Once the frame has been strengthened, then is the time to consider fixing the frame more securely. Maybe you're thinking of upvc, I'm thinking of timber frames. Strength of fixing to the wall isn't really an issue there, and has nothing to do with the frame failure mode. Definitely not thinking of upvc yuk, no, I'm suggesting making a timber frame/lock combination as strong as possible by reinforcing the (easily splinterable) woodwork with steel strip (as Dave has suggested) as an assembly, then (if deemed necessary) tying the reinforced frame structure in surrounding brickwork. The idea being that wood can resist severe attack if you can just stop it failing by splintering out. Steel strips on long screws into the edge, bind the frame into a strong composite structure. It sounded as if you were suggesting long fixings from lock strike into masonary which doesn't really sound feasible. Does that make sense? -- fred BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs |
Reinforcing night latch
fred wrote:
In article , writes Andrew Mawson wrote: London Bar: http://www.londonbar.co.uk/ Personally I make my own from 1" x 1/4" strip AWEM Screwing stuff to the frame is missing the point, the frame is the weakest part of the setup. You need to screw through into the masonry to get decent strength. Not really, without the strengthening that Dave is proposing, the frame will pop long before it is dislodged from the wall. Once the frame has been strengthened, then is the time to consider fixing the frame more securely. For Dave: I would normally fabricate something like this from 3mm x 40 or 3mm x 25 strip fixed into the frame fixed every 100mm with 75mm screws but I understand why you would want something off the shelf. The pretty way to do it is to remove the architrave and strike plate and fit a thinish (3mm) metal strip under that before reinstating the cosmetic coverings and filling the gaps. Andrew's source looks good for ready made but it wont be pretty. Situation is the student accommodation at the local Uni. 8 blocks each of 4 floors, each floor has two flats. Drunken student forgets keys, uses door entry intercom to get into block, barges flat door to get in. I usually repair at least one a week, cut out damaged section, insert new bit, glue & screw etc. Trouble is on one door in particular I'm running out of frame to patch :-) -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
Reinforcing night latch
In article , The Medway
Handyman writes fred wrote: In article , writes Andrew Mawson wrote: London Bar: http://www.londonbar.co.uk/ Personally I make my own from 1" x 1/4" strip AWEM Screwing stuff to the frame is missing the point, the frame is the weakest part of the setup. You need to screw through into the masonry to get decent strength. Not really, without the strengthening that Dave is proposing, the frame will pop long before it is dislodged from the wall. Once the frame has been strengthened, then is the time to consider fixing the frame more securely. For Dave: I would normally fabricate something like this from 3mm x 40 or 3mm x 25 strip fixed into the frame fixed every 100mm with 75mm screws but I understand why you would want something off the shelf. The pretty way to do it is to remove the architrave and strike plate and fit a thinish (3mm) metal strip under that before reinstating the cosmetic coverings and filling the gaps. Andrew's source looks good for ready made but it wont be pretty. Situation is the student accommodation at the local Uni. 8 blocks each of 4 floors, each floor has two flats. Drunken student forgets keys, uses door entry intercom to get into block, barges flat door to get in. I usually repair at least one a week, cut out damaged section, insert new bit, glue & screw etc. Trouble is on one door in particular I'm running out of frame to patch :-) Gotcha, many conflicting interests the 1. Deliberate damage lets the college/uni repair the (criminal) damage to best security and recover the cost from the criminal. 2. Lowest quote gets the job mentality encourages filling with P38 and minimal security. 3. TMH wants to do the best job within price constraints to encourage repeat business. Best practice for a secure but economic repair would probably be: 4. Cut out the affected section and replace with a dovetailed repair piece. 5. Add 2mm x 30 steel strip to the of edge of the frame on the inside with sufficient overlap to reinforce the inset repair. Rebate into the edge to allow the rimlock strike seat properly. 6. Add another 2mm plate to the face of the frame to reinforce the splintered section, again rebating to ensure a good fit on the rimlock strike. 7. Use a good drill and bits to drill the mountings for the strike through the steel. Derate to suit the client's budget. Big screws from the plate into the edge of frame do tighten the job up noticeably. A steel stockholder will cut 2mm steel sheet into strip for minimal cost but it would be up to you to drill holes and countersink ( a bench drill stand recommended). In contrast, the London bars are cheap and show visible intent to secure but without an extra plate on the face of a splintered frame it might not be enough. -- fred BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs |
Reinforcing night latch
fred wrote:
Andrew's source looks good for ready made but it wont be pretty. Situation is the student accommodation at the local Uni. 8 blocks each of 4 floors, each floor has two flats. Drunken student forgets keys, uses door entry intercom to get into block, barges flat door to get in. I usually repair at least one a week, cut out damaged section, insert new bit, glue & screw etc. Trouble is on one door in particular I'm running out of frame to patch :-) Gotcha, many conflicting interests the 1. Deliberate damage lets the college/uni repair the (criminal) damage to best security and recover the cost from the criminal. They do 'fine' the residents (each 'flat' has 6 rooms) as a group if they can't identify the individual culprit. A £60 fine divided by 6 isn't much of a deterrent though. 2. Lowest quote gets the job mentality encourages filling with P38 and minimal security. I'm employed by the day to repair such things & to be honest I'm rarely stretched. I repair all the reported faults & then revert to checking/changing tubes, adjusting door closers etc as preventative maintenance.. 3. TMH wants to do the best job within price constraints to encourage repeat business. Indeed. Main aim is to keep the contract going smoothly. Best value, best service. Best practice for a secure but economic repair would probably be: 4. Cut out the affected section and replace with a dovetailed repair piece. Dovetail on the top edge of the damage is rarely possible, the frame generally splits from below the keep cut out. SNIP In contrast, the London bars are cheap and show visible intent to secure but without an extra plate on the face of a splintered frame it might not be enough. Its not a determined burgular, more a drunken student. I reckon the London Bar would send a message to the students e.g. remember your keys, this door has been reinforced. Plus they are not that cheap, so a larger 'fine' might act as more of a deterrant. As I say though, on one particular door I'm running out of space to patch it. Solution seems to be one final patch & a London Bar, cos if it splits again I'm not sure I can repair it. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
Reinforcing night latch
On Feb 25, 4:39*pm, Owain wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote: Situation is the student accommodation at the local Uni. *8 blocks each of 4 floors, each floor has two flats. *Drunken student forgets keys, uses door entry intercom to get into block, barges flat door to get in. An alternative might be to secure the outer block door (and cover with CCTV if possible - wi-fi network cameras are available) What do you mean by "secure"? Lock so it can't be opened from inside? That'll just mean it gets propped open. Arrange so that it can only be opened from inside or with a key? That'll be the default state. and put a timeswitch on the intercom to disable it after say 11pm. Which makes no difference at all. Student uses mobile phone to ring same friend who would have answered intercom. You do realize they all have their mobile phones surgically attached? Also a £60 'fine' seems ridiculous - students should have to pay the full cost of the repairs and if it's repeated they should be put out of the flat (and in extreme cases sent down) The University would almost certainly find itself being sued if they tried to send a flat-full of people down because *one* of them broke the door. I'm rather surprised they can get away with distributing the fine over the occupants. The £60 fine would be a deterant if it all had to be paid by a single student (even if it isn't the full cost). |
Reinforcing night latch
fred wrote:
In article , writes fred wrote: In article , writes Andrew Mawson wrote: London Bar: http://www.londonbar.co.uk/ Personally I make my own from 1" x 1/4" strip AWEM Screwing stuff to the frame is missing the point, the frame is the weakest part of the setup. You need to screw through into the masonry to get decent strength. Not really, without the strengthening that Dave is proposing, the frame will pop long before it is dislodged from the wall. Once the frame has been strengthened, then is the time to consider fixing the frame more securely. Maybe you're thinking of upvc, I'm thinking of timber frames. Strength of fixing to the wall isn't really an issue there, and has nothing to do with the frame failure mode. Definitely not thinking of upvc yuk, no, I'm suggesting making a timber frame/lock combination as strong as possible by reinforcing the (easily splinterable) woodwork with steel strip (as Dave has suggested) as an assembly, then (if deemed necessary) tying the reinforced frame structure in surrounding brickwork. The idea being that wood can resist severe attack if you can just stop it failing by splintering out. Steel strips on long screws into the edge, bind the frame into a strong composite structure. It sounded as if you were suggesting long fixings from lock strike into masonary which doesn't really sound feasible. Does that make sense? yes, I understand - but youre making life hard for yourself. Long screws on the lock plate that sink all the way into masonry are very easy to do. Just remove old screws, drill, wallplug, fit new screws. I didn't find anything difficult about it. Use very small wallplugs to keep hole size down. NT |
Reinforcing night latch
In article
, writes fred wrote: In article , writes fred wrote: In article , writes Andrew Mawson wrote: London Bar: http://www.londonbar.co.uk/ Personally I make my own from 1" x 1/4" strip AWEM Screwing stuff to the frame is missing the point, the frame is the weakest part of the setup. You need to screw through into the masonry to get decent strength. Not really, without the strengthening that Dave is proposing, the frame will pop long before it is dislodged from the wall. Once the frame has been strengthened, then is the time to consider fixing the frame more securely. Maybe you're thinking of upvc, I'm thinking of timber frames. Strength of fixing to the wall isn't really an issue there, and has nothing to do with the frame failure mode. Definitely not thinking of upvc yuk, no, I'm suggesting making a timber frame/lock combination as strong as possible by reinforcing the (easily splinterable) woodwork with steel strip (as Dave has suggested) as an assembly, then (if deemed necessary) tying the reinforced frame structure in surrounding brickwork. The idea being that wood can resist severe attack if you can just stop it failing by splintering out. Steel strips on long screws into the edge, bind the frame into a strong composite structure. It sounded as if you were suggesting long fixings from lock strike into masonary which doesn't really sound feasible. Does that make sense? yes, I understand - but youre making life hard for yourself. Long screws on the lock plate that sink all the way into masonry are very easy to do. Just remove old screws, drill, wallplug, fit new screws. I didn't find anything difficult about it. Use very small wallplugs to keep hole size down. Under attack, the wood will splinter and the long screws will bend out of the way, it doesn't take much movement to pop the lock. A reinforced frame tied into the masonary will survive a far more violent attack. -- fred BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs |
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