Our garden is about 3 feet above the level of the public footpath that
runs the other side of our boundary.

The existing retaining wall is about 35 feet long, sliding off its
foundations and leaning.

We would like a 3 feet retaining wall and a 6 feet fence on top of it
rather than back from it.

To complicate matters half way along the wall is a gap in the wall
filled by an ash tree about 18 metres high with a diameter near the
ground of something over 2 feet. It is based on our ground and extends
to the boundary. It is the subject of a TPO obtained by our next door
neighbour and the roots cannot therefore be damaged.

I rather doubt whether it would be possible to build a wall to both
withstand the weight of soil and the pressure of wind on a fence mounted
in/on it. I have seen a fence in situ around a commercial site where
the supports were back from a wall but the fence was built forward from
the supports to be above the dwarf wall.

Anyone got any ideas what is possible or who to approach? I anticipate
getting it done professionally but doubt whether the average builder or
landscape gardener could handle it all. Any particular type of surveyor
or other expert?

TIA for any ideas.

(The footpath behind is not part of a public highway and I understand
that I can build a 6 feet fence above the natural level of my land)

On 30 Jan, 14:25, Invisible Man wrote:

(The footpath behind is not part of a public highway and I understand
that I can build a 6 feet fence above the natural level of my land)

All the planning officers I've spoken to would understand
differently :-)

You earlier describe the footpath as a "public footpath" therefore it
*is* a public highway so 1m above ground level is as high as you can
go.

Your local planning officer is the best person to tell you what
"ground level" is in this case. It could be the level of your land,
the level of the path or some point in between.

As an aside, I've encountered one planning officer who swore blind
that a retaining wall was not covered by permitted development and
tried to con me into applying for planning permission for a 1m
retaining wall so don't take everything they say as gospel. They are
not always right but they're (usually) better than the "man in the
pub"

Cheers,

John

On 30 Jan, 14:38, John Anderton wrote:
On 30 Jan, 14:25, Invisible Man wrote:

(The footpath behind is not part of a public highway and I understand
that I can build a 6 feet fence above the natural level of my land)

All the planning officers I've spoken to would understand
differently :-)

You earlier describe the footpath as a "public footpath" therefore it
*is* a public highway so 1m above ground level is as high as you can
go.

Sorry, just tracked down the relevant legislation and the definition
is "highway used by vehicular traffic" so I suspect you're OK up to
2m. (See part 2 here :http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1995/
Uksi_19950418_en_4.htm).

(All the above is based on my assumption that part 2 hasn't been
amended since 1995. Part 1 was amended last year)

Cheers,

John

John Anderton wrote:
On 30 Jan, 14:25, Invisible Man wrote:
(The footpath behind is not part of a public highway and I understand
that I can build a 6 feet fence above the natural level of my land)

All the planning officers I've spoken to would understand
differently :-)

You earlier describe the footpath as a "public footpath" therefore it
*is* a public highway so 1m above ground level is as high as you can
go.

Your local planning officer is the best person to tell you what
"ground level" is in this case. It could be the level of your land,
the level of the path or some point in between.

As an aside, I've encountered one planning officer who swore blind
that a retaining wall was not covered by permitted development and
tried to con me into applying for planning permission for a 1m
retaining wall so don't take everything they say as gospel. They are
not always right but they're (usually) better than the "man in the
pub"

Cheers,

John

Thanks John

The public footpath is not made up. It has a sign showing it as a public
footpath. It is quite wide and allows vehicular access for people who
have rights of way along it to their garages at the bottoms of their
gardens. At the moment it has 2 ruts full of water. The land is jointly
owned by one of my neighbours and 2 others.

The neighbours both sides have similar retaining walls with 6 feet
fences immediately behind them as I have at present. Theirs are upright
whereas mine was not maintained in the past and wall and fencing are now
leaning.

Invisible Man wrote:

Our garden is about 3 feet above the level of the public footpath that
runs the other side of our boundary.

The existing retaining wall is about 35 feet long, sliding off its
foundations and leaning.

We would like a 3 feet retaining wall and a 6 feet fence on top of it
rather than back from it.

To complicate matters half way along the wall is a gap in the wall
filled by an ash tree about 18 metres high with a diameter near the
ground of something over 2 feet. It is based on our ground and extends
to the boundary. It is the subject of a TPO obtained by our next door
neighbour and the roots cannot therefore be damaged.

I rather doubt whether it would be possible to build a wall to both
withstand the weight of soil and the pressure of wind on a fence mounted
in/on it.

Of course it is, but how much hassle do you want?


I have seen a fence in situ around a commercial site where
the supports were back from a wall but the fence was built forward from
the supports to be above the dwarf wall.

Anyone got any ideas what is possible or who to approach? I anticipate
getting it done professionally but doubt whether the average builder or
landscape gardener could handle it all. Any particular type of surveyor
or other expert?


Civil engineer, but here is the general approach

1/. drain holes through the wall base to prevent uber soggy soil creeping.

2/ backfilled with somethng porous to staiblise and drain subsoul.

3/. wall has to retain pressu both in tems on not splitting and not
sliding. The first is solved with steel ties or inserts and the latter
is solved with back braces.

This is how I would do it in principle.

Dig out the whole bank at least 6 feet back from the path, and lay a
concrete foundation about 600mm deep into the path side.

Pile drive steel posts to take the fence into the subsoil.

Lay steel mesh back into the excavated bank. and put steel tie points
into it and concrete up around those points. The rest of the mesh leave.


Start building the wall around the posts. I'd use concrete blocks with
holes and lay vertical rebar in those, and then lay rebar along every
course, tying it loosely to the verticals and the posts. Leave gaps at
the base course for drainage. Fill the hose with strong scrap mortar.

Build a face layer of nice engineering brick and tie it into the
concrete block layer with ties, ad backfill; the gap with scrap mortar.

When you get to finished ground level minus 6 inches, get some stainless
cables and connect the posts to the points you connected in to the rebar
mesh in the first place. use turnbuckles to pretension, and concrete
over those to prevent corrosion.

Finish wall with a course of cappings or sideways bricks, and backfill
with porous material up against the wall - Limestone MOT 1 is good -
mixed with gravel and sand. That provides a stable drainable base. Or
use hardcore from existing wall?


Replace topsoil and seed.

If you want a pretty fence rather than a steel mesh think, build brick
pillars round the steel posts, and attach panels to them


Expect the ash to cause damage. It roots will be very extensive and
about a meter below the surface if that. Chop what you need to to build
from below that level.The roots are unlikely to go UNDER what you have
built, but may well dry out what is adjacent. Hence the need to tie the
lot together well. You WILL get swelling of the tree at its base BUT if
te wll is strong, that will push the soil out, not the wall!


I've done a 2ft high wall somewhat like this..didn't brace it though,
and only where I didn't TIE it together are there any signs of cracking.

http://www.larksrise.com/May%202004%...0 pond%20.jpg

Shows he result. Not as big as yours..

You may not need the bracing cables, but with a fence on top, Id go for it.

"Invisible Man" wrote


Our garden is about 3 feet above the level of the public footpath that
runs the other side of our boundary.

snip....

I have just had to jump through hoops to erect a 2m fence alongside our
boundary.
Planning insisted on the fence being 500mm from the boundary with planting
in front to soften the steet scene.
Totally irrelevant to your question but hey ho..
In terms of what you could do...I'm not sure if I understand the situation
exactly, but could you use tall slotted concrete posts with concrete gravel
boards upto the height of the inside ground level?
You could do 1 bay as a trial for a year or two to see if this would take
the strain - all dependent on your time scale of course.

Phil

TheScullster wrote:
"Invisible Man" wrote

Our garden is about 3 feet above the level of the public footpath that
runs the other side of our boundary.

snip....

I have just had to jump through hoops to erect a 2m fence alongside our
boundary.
Planning insisted on the fence being 500mm from the boundary with planting
in front to soften the steet scene.
Totally irrelevant to your question but hey ho..
In terms of what you could do...I'm not sure if I understand the situation
exactly, but could you use tall slotted concrete posts with concrete gravel
boards upto the height of the inside ground level?
You could do 1 bay as a trial for a year or two to see if this would take
the strain - all dependent on your time scale of course.

Phil


Good idea. Will need to investigate long and very strong ones.