Has anyone any knowledge of the UK radio time signal system? My son
bought me a watch last year which updates from the radio time signal.
It used to have an antenna symbol in the display to show it was
receiving. For some time now the symbol has been missing and the time
is slightly adrift by a few seconds when compared with other
standards.
As the rest of the functions seem ok has there been a change in the
transmitter?

"cynic" wrote in message
...
Has anyone any knowledge of the UK radio time signal system? My son
bought me a watch last year which updates from the radio time signal.
It used to have an antenna symbol in the display to show it was
receiving. For some time now the symbol has been missing and the time
is slightly adrift by a few seconds when compared with other
standards.
As the rest of the functions seem ok has there been a change in the
transmitter?

Is it definitely using the UK MSF time signal?

The transmitter moved in April 2007.
It was at Rugby, it's now at Anthorn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSF_time_signal

Does that correspond with your reception problems?

--
Ron

cynic submitted this idea :
As the rest of the functions seem ok has there been a change in the
transmitter?

If it runs on MSF, that transmitter was moved from Rugby up to Cumbria.
Might you not be able to receive it because it is more distant and
therefore weaker?

My watch is able to be set to receive 3 different transmitters, might
the setting of your watch have been changed to the wrong one?

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

"Ron Lowe" ronATlowe-famlyDOTmeDOTukSPURIOUS wrote in message
...
"cynic" wrote in message
...
Has anyone any knowledge of the UK radio time signal system? My son
bought me a watch last year which updates from the radio time signal.
It used to have an antenna symbol in the display to show it was
receiving. For some time now the symbol has been missing and the time
is slightly adrift by a few seconds when compared with other
standards.
As the rest of the functions seem ok has there been a change in the
transmitter?

Is it definitely using the UK MSF time signal?

The transmitter moved in April 2007.
It was at Rugby, it's now at Anthorn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSF_time_signal

Does that correspond with your reception problems?

--
Ron


I have several clocks (cheap alarm) that use the MSF signal - they all had
difficulty when the signal was moved to Cumbria but after a few months they
all seemed able to receive the signal OK - I don't know if the signal
strength was increased after the move - there is quite a bit of information
about the signal on the NPL website.

http://www.npl.co.uk/time/

Peter

"Ron Lowe" ronATlowe-famlyDOTmeDOTukSPURIOUS wrote in message
...
"cynic" wrote in message
...
Has anyone any knowledge of the UK radio time signal system? My son
bought me a watch last year which updates from the radio time signal.
It used to have an antenna symbol in the display to show it was
receiving. For some time now the symbol has been missing and the time
is slightly adrift by a few seconds when compared with other
standards.
As the rest of the functions seem ok has there been a change in the
transmitter?

Is it definitely using the UK MSF time signal?

The transmitter moved in April 2007.
It was at Rugby, it's now at Anthorn.

Where,

Oh Cumbria,

Blooming heck, no wonder my "indoor" clock now struggles.

tim

Peter Andrews wrote:
"Ron Lowe" ronATlowe-famlyDOTmeDOTukSPURIOUS wrote in message
...
"cynic" wrote in message
...
Has anyone any knowledge of the UK radio time signal system? My son
bought me a watch last year which updates from the radio time signal.
It used to have an antenna symbol in the display to show it was
receiving. For some time now the symbol has been missing and the time
is slightly adrift by a few seconds when compared with other
standards.
As the rest of the functions seem ok has there been a change in the
transmitter?
Is it definitely using the UK MSF time signal?

The transmitter moved in April 2007.
It was at Rugby, it's now at Anthorn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSF_time_signal

Does that correspond with your reception problems?

--
Ron


I have several clocks (cheap alarm) that use the MSF signal - they all had
difficulty when the signal was moved to Cumbria but after a few months they
all seemed able to receive the signal OK - I don't know if the signal
strength was increased after the move - there is quite a bit of information
about the signal on the NPL website.

http://www.npl.co.uk/time/

Peter


Used to get a lot of periods without time being available towards the
end of the Rugby days. Since the move (and maybe a few months of bedding
in), it seems to be generally more reliable and I (almost) never see a
'no time' indicator.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 22:26:21 +0000, cynic wrote
(in article
):

Has anyone any knowledge of the UK radio time signal system? My son
bought me a watch last year which updates from the radio time signal.
It used to have an antenna symbol in the display to show it was
receiving. For some time now the symbol has been missing and the time
is slightly adrift by a few seconds when compared with other
standards.
As the rest of the functions seem ok has there been a change in the
transmitter?

I've had two of these watches and with both of them there has been a setting
which will stop the watch receiving time signals (for use if you travel out
of range of a transmitter). Is it possible that you have inadvertently done
this with your watch?

These watches don't receive the timing signal continuously by the way. To
conserve the battery they go into a 'receive mode' once every 24 hours. The
antenna symbol indicates whether the last attempt was successful or not.

--
Mike Lane
UK North Yorkshire

Mike Lane formulated the question :
These watches don't receive the timing signal continuously by the way. To
conserve the battery they go into a 'receive mode' once every 24 hours. The
antenna symbol indicates whether the last attempt was successful or not.

Mine makes three attempts during the early hours. It finally gives up
at the third attempt, or the first attempt where it is successful in
syncing.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 11:49:40 +0000, Harry Bloomfield wrote
(in article ):

Mike Lane formulated the question :
These watches don't receive the timing signal continuously by the way. To
conserve the battery they go into a 'receive mode' once every 24 hours. The
antenna symbol indicates whether the last attempt was successful or not.

Mine makes three attempts during the early hours. It finally gives up
at the third attempt, or the first attempt where it is successful in
syncing.

Yes I think they all do something of the sort. I have a Casio which makes 6
attempts throughout the night starting at 1:00 a.m. Apparently if it's
unsuccessful with the Anthorn transmission it will try Mainflingen (Germany)
which also covers the UK.

--
Mike Lane
UK North Yorkshire

In article . com,
Mike Lane wrote:
Yes I think they all do something of the sort. I have a Casio which
makes 6 attempts throughout the night starting at 1:00 a.m. Apparently
if it's unsuccessful with the Anthorn transmission it will try
Mainflingen (Germany) which also covers the UK.

But could be a problem with BST?

--
*Save a tree, eat a beaver*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:19:30 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote
(in article ):

In article . com,
Mike Lane wrote:
Yes I think they all do something of the sort. I have a Casio which
makes 6 attempts throughout the night starting at 1:00 a.m. Apparently
if it's unsuccessful with the Anthorn transmission it will try
Mainflingen (Germany) which also covers the UK.

But could be a problem with BST?

In the past yes, but now all of the EU changes to daylight saving on the same
day.

--
Mike Lane
UK North Yorkshire

On 18 Jan, 13:04, Mike Lane wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 11:49:40 +0000, Harry Bloomfield wrote
(in article ):

Mike Lane formulated the question :
These watches don't receive the timing signal continuously by the way. To
conserve the battery they go into a 'receive mode' once every 24 hours. The
antenna symbol indicates whether the last attempt was successful or not.

Mine makes three attempts during the early hours. It finally gives up
at the third attempt, or the first attempt where it is successful in
syncing.

Yes I think they all do something of the sort. I have a Casio which makes 6
attempts throughout the night starting at 1:00 a.m. Apparently if it's
unsuccessful with the Anthorn transmission it will try Mainflingen (Germany)
which also covers the UK.

--
Mike Lane
UK North Yorkshire

Thanks for all the replies. My watch is a Casio but the instructions
are long gone. I have not made any adjustments as I left it to the
signal to keep it correct. The only button I use is the backlight one
for night time time checking if I wake up. I noticed as well that a
Honeywell CM67 add-on time receiver module is also apparently not
doing its job anymore as that units time keeping is slowly drifting
away from standard.
I am low down in the vale of York so possibly the Pennines and the
Lincolnshire wolds are blocking out the signals from both Cumbria and
Germany

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 22:04:20 +0000, cynic wrote
(in article
):

Thanks for all the replies. My watch is a Casio but the instructions
are long gone. I have not made any adjustments as I left it to the
signal to keep it correct. The only button I use is the backlight one
for night time time checking if I wake up. I noticed as well that a
Honeywell CM67 add-on time receiver module is also apparently not
doing its job anymore as that units time keeping is slowly drifting
away from standard.
I am low down in the vale of York so possibly the Pennines and the
Lincolnshire wolds are blocking out the signals from both Cumbria and
Germany

Well I'm 50 miles or so north of that on the east coast and I have no
problems at all. Could there possibly be some strong source of interference
close by? I know mine has occasionally failed to receive if I'm sitting at
the computer when it goes into receive mode.

You can get most of the recent Casio watch manuals online. Have a look he
http://world.casio.com/wat/download/en/manual/?
You will need to enter the module number of your watch which should be
engraved on the stainless steel back.


--
Mike Lane
UK North Yorkshire

In article
,
cynic wrote:
Thanks for all the replies. My watch is a Casio but the instructions
are long gone. I have not made any adjustments as I left it to the
signal to keep it correct. The only button I use is the backlight one
for night time time checking if I wake up. I noticed as well that a
Honeywell CM67 add-on time receiver module is also apparently not
doing its job anymore as that units time keeping is slowly drifting
away from standard.
I am low down in the vale of York so possibly the Pennines and the
Lincolnshire wolds are blocking out the signals from both Cumbria and
Germany

It's possible something new or faulty in the house (or nearby) is zapping
the signal. Try unplugging everything that is normally left on standby.

If you can borrow an RF spectrum analyser that might give clue.

--
*Indian Driver - Smoke signals only*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Mike Lane wrote:

Well I'm 50 miles or so north of that on the east coast and I have no
problems at all. Could there possibly be some strong source of interference
close by? I know mine has occasionally failed to receive if I'm sitting at
the computer when it goes into receive mode.

I have three such clocks/watches and they all fail to receive if they
are near a computer that is on. Switch the computer off and they
magically receive again.


--
Howard Neil

Howard Neil wrote:

Mike Lane wrote:

Well I'm 50 miles or so north of that on the east coast and I have no
problems at all. Could there possibly be some strong source of
interference close by? I know mine has occasionally failed to receive
if I'm sitting at the computer when it goes into receive mode.

I have three such clocks/watches and they all fail to receive if they
are near a computer that is on. Switch the computer off and they
magically receive again.


We have five clocks - all of which are close to computers. (Both desktop
and laptop styles - plus routers, 802.11, etc.) Hardly ever have any
problems (maybe a hiccup once every few months), and none that we would
put down to the computers. We do, however, have intermittent problems
with our local weather clocks receiving from the outdoor thermometers -
and these just might be due to computer use.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

Rod wrote:
Howard Neil wrote:

Mike Lane wrote:

Well I'm 50 miles or so north of that on the east coast and I have no
problems at all. Could there possibly be some strong source of
interference close by? I know mine has occasionally failed to receive
if I'm sitting at the computer when it goes into receive mode.

I have three such clocks/watches and they all fail to receive if they
are near a computer that is on. Switch the computer off and they
magically receive again.


We have five clocks - all of which are close to computers. (Both desktop
and laptop styles - plus routers, 802.11, etc.) Hardly ever have any
problems (maybe a hiccup once every few months), and none that we would
put down to the computers. We do, however, have intermittent problems
with our local weather clocks receiving from the outdoor thermometers -
and these just might be due to computer use.


Radio propagation is very much a black art. My wireless router and the
signals from the various sensors from my weather station don't have any
problems and both the router and the weather station main unit are
alongside both computers. It is only the clocks/watches that have the
problem and that is repeatedly demonstrable.

--
Howard Neil

On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:00:38 +0000, Howard Neil wrote
(in article ) :

Radio propagation is very much a black art. My wireless router and the
signals from the various sensors from my weather station don't have any
problems and both the router and the weather station main unit are
alongside both computers. It is only the clocks/watches that have the
problem and that is repeatedly demonstrable.

You are comparing two very different communication systems.

WiFi devices communicate at SHF frequencies of a few GHz with wavelengths of
a few centimetres. The time signals from Anthorn et al are in the VLF band
with frequencies around 60 kHz and corresponding wavelengths of several
kilometres. It's hardly surprising that they have somewhat different
properties.

--
Mike Lane
UK North Yorkshire

In article , Howard Neil
scribeth thus

Rod wrote:
Howard Neil wrote:

Mike Lane wrote:

Well I'm 50 miles or so north of that on the east coast and I have no
problems at all. Could there possibly be some strong source of
interference close by? I know mine has occasionally failed to receive
if I'm sitting at the computer when it goes into receive mode.

I have three such clocks/watches and they all fail to receive if they
are near a computer that is on. Switch the computer off and they
magically receive again.


We have five clocks - all of which are close to computers. (Both desktop
and laptop styles - plus routers, 802.11, etc.) Hardly ever have any
problems (maybe a hiccup once every few months), and none that we would
put down to the computers. We do, however, have intermittent problems
with our local weather clocks receiving from the outdoor thermometers -
and these just might be due to computer use.


Radio propagation is very much a black art.

Its not a black art at all .. its just poorly understood;-)



My wireless router and the
signals from the various sensors from my weather station don't have any
problems and both the router and the weather station main unit are
alongside both computers. It is only the clocks/watches that have the
problem and that is repeatedly demonstrable.


Thats prolly some junk on the 60 kHz time signal radiated by your PC the other
wireless equipment is around 2.4 Ghz where there is less radiated -muck-

--
Tony Sayer

tony sayer wrote:
In article , Howard Neil
scribeth thus
Rod wrote:
Howard Neil wrote:
Mike Lane wrote:

Well I'm 50 miles or so north of that on the east coast and I have no
problems at all. Could there possibly be some strong source of
interference close by? I know mine has occasionally failed to receive
if I'm sitting at the computer when it goes into receive mode.
I have three such clocks/watches and they all fail to receive if they
are near a computer that is on. Switch the computer off and they
magically receive again.


We have five clocks - all of which are close to computers. (Both desktop
and laptop styles - plus routers, 802.11, etc.) Hardly ever have any
problems (maybe a hiccup once every few months), and none that we would
put down to the computers. We do, however, have intermittent problems
with our local weather clocks receiving from the outdoor thermometers -
and these just might be due to computer use.

Radio propagation is very much a black art.

Its not a black art at all .. its just poorly understood;-)



My wireless router and the
signals from the various sensors from my weather station don't have any
problems and both the router and the weather station main unit are
alongside both computers. It is only the clocks/watches that have the
problem and that is repeatedly demonstrable.


Thats prolly some junk on the 60 kHz time signal radiated by your PC

or CRT monitor..


the other
wireless equipment is around 2.4 Ghz where there is less radiated -muck-

cynic wrote :
I am low down in the vale of York so possibly the Pennines and the
Lincolnshire wolds are blocking out the signals from both Cumbria and
Germany

That should not affect reception down at 60Khz and you are not far from
me.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk