Hi,

Theoretical question (ie I'm not about to do it, well, not yet anyway[1])

Been reading the Viessmann Compact 100 24kW system boiler installation
manual.

The flue is a typical round concentric pipe affair. The manual shows the
flue sections being plugged together and into the boiler, where there are
sealing rings shown.

Would one normally use a jointing/sealing compound *or* an assembly aid (in
the way that silicone oil may be used on push fit sewer pipes) on these
types of joints?

Manual doesn't make any mention but it may be assumed knowledge.

Other than that, it seems perfectly straightforward. The most difficult bit
will be gauging the ventilation requirements as it will be sharing a common
airspace with a gas cooker and a log stove.


Cheers

Tim

[1] As mentioned previously, I'm expecting to seek a CORGI chap to be a
consultant if I DIY this - and to this end I've already had an encouraging
talk with a fellow who prefers repair work to installation work, which
obviously suits us both.

"Tim S" wrote in message
...


Other than that, it seems perfectly straightforward. The most difficult
bit
will be gauging the ventilation requirements as it will be sharing a
common
airspace with a gas cooker and a log stove.

Um, surely if it's a room sealed boiler with concentric flue etc. the other
appliances are irrelevant?

Tim2

In article , Tim S
wrote:
Hi,

Theoretical question (ie I'm not about to do it, well, not yet anyway[1])

Been reading the Viessmann Compact 100 24kW system boiler installation
manual.

The flue is a typical round concentric pipe affair. The manual shows the
flue sections being plugged together and into the boiler, where there are
sealing rings shown.

Would one normally use a jointing/sealing compound *or* an assembly aid
(in the way that silicone oil may be used on push fit sewer pipes) on
these types of joints?

Manual doesn't make any mention but it may be assumed knowledge.

They push together easily. They're a mixture of plastic pipe, painted
steel pipe and 'rubber' seal - so I'm not quite sure which lubricant would
be totally safe on all of these.

Other than that, it seems perfectly straightforward. The most difficult
bit will be gauging the ventilation requirements as it will be sharing a
common airspace with a gas cooker and a log stove.

Eh? It doesn't draw any air from the room. Nor does it need any special
ventilation for cooling the exterior surfaces - just observe the clearance
given in the instructions if boxing it in.

Cheers

Tim

[1] As mentioned previously, I'm expecting to seek a CORGI chap to be a
consultant if I DIY this - and to this end I've already had an encouraging
talk with a fellow who prefers repair work to installation work, which
obviously suits us both.

--
*Does fuzzy logic tickle? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) coughed up some electrons that declared:

Would one normally use a jointing/sealing compound *or* an assembly aid
(in the way that silicone oil may be used on push fit sewer pipes) on
these types of joints?

Manual doesn't make any mention but it may be assumed knowledge.

They push together easily. They're a mixture of plastic pipe, painted
steel pipe and 'rubber' seal - so I'm not quite sure which lubricant would
be totally safe on all of these.

Brilliant - thanks Dave.

Other than that, it seems perfectly straightforward. The most difficult
bit will be gauging the ventilation requirements as it will be sharing a
common airspace with a gas cooker and a log stove.

Eh? It doesn't draw any air from the room. Nor does it need any special
ventilation for cooling the exterior surfaces - just observe the clearance
given in the instructions if boxing it in.

I know that - it's only I thought I'd seen some ventilation requirements
mentioned somewhere (perhaps the Viper handbook), even for a room sealed
unit. I was only skim reading, but I have a thought in my head that says
it's for backup in case something leaks.

But I'm probably talking ********. I haven't made a concerted effort to
calculate the ventilation requirements of the various things yet so this
will come out in the wash when I do the research properly

Cheers

Tim

Tim Downie coughed up some electrons that declared:


"Tim S" wrote in message
...


Other than that, it seems perfectly straightforward. The most difficult
bit
will be gauging the ventilation requirements as it will be sharing a
common
airspace with a gas cooker and a log stove.

Um, surely if it's a room sealed boiler with concentric flue etc. the
other appliances are irrelevant?

Tim2

Yep - Agree with you and Dave, now I've had a look at Part J (was actually
looking at acceptable flue positions, but noticed a bit on ventilation).

Cheers

Tim

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 22:34:10 +0000, Tim S wrote:

Tim Downie coughed up some electrons that declared:


"Tim S" wrote in message
...


Other than that, it seems perfectly straightforward. The most
difficult bit
will be gauging the ventilation requirements as it will be sharing a
common
airspace with a gas cooker and a log stove.

Um, surely if it's a room sealed boiler with concentric flue etc. the
other appliances are irrelevant?

Tim2

Yep - Agree with you and Dave, now I've had a look at Part J (was
actually looking at acceptable flue positions, but noticed a bit on
ventilation).

Modern boilers not only don't need air for the combustion (as it comes
from outside) but also they don't need any for appliance cooling.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 19:30:41 +0000, Tim S wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) coughed up some electrons that declared:



But I'm probably talking ********. I haven't made a concerted effort to
calculate the ventilation requirements of the various things yet so this
will come out in the wash when I do the research properly

The (flueless) gas cooker only requires that there is some sort of opening
direct to outside air. (e.g. openable window).
The log burner does not come under BS 5440 but it would be a good idea to
make sure that it has enough air.

I would suggest (unless some normative document states otherwise) that a
permanent vent to outside air of at least 50cm² should do the trick.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

Ed Sirett coughed up some electrons that declared:

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 19:30:41 +0000, Tim S wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) coughed up some electrons that declared:



But I'm probably talking ********. I haven't made a concerted effort to
calculate the ventilation requirements of the various things yet so this
will come out in the wash when I do the research properly

The (flueless) gas cooker only requires that there is some sort of opening
direct to outside air. (e.g. openable window).
The log burner does not come under BS 5440 but it would be a good idea to
make sure that it has enough air.

I would suggest (unless some normative document states otherwise) that a
permanent vent to outside air of at least 50cm² should do the trick.



Excellent - thanks Ed.

I have a vent in the room already (put there for the current gas fire/back
boiler).

I'll clean it and measure it, but it looks superficially like it's =50cm2.

I'll have to be a bit careful because there'll be a cooker hood with exhaust
to outside going in too and I'm aware this may load the vent (reduce its
effective capacity) - I'll be sure to check on that too.

Cheers

Tim

Ed Sirett coughed up some electrons that declared:

Modern boilers not only don't need air for the combustion (as it comes
from outside) but also they don't need any for appliance cooling.


And to think that the old Potterton cast iron lump my dad installed in the
mid 70's had a rated output of about one radiator from its case!

Cheers

Tim

Ed Sirett coughed up some electrons that declared:


Modern boilers not only don't need air for the combustion (as it comes
from outside) but also they don't need any for appliance cooling.


Hi Ed,

If you're still around...

I've come across some conflicting information on flues (this case, balanced,
gas).

The Viessmann 100 Compact installation manual shows a flue lower than 2.1m
above ground and *next to a "walkway"* as being unacceptable.

However, Part J makes no mention of any distances from "walkways" and
neither do any other Viessmann documents.

I'm aware a flue must be guarded if people are likely to make contact with
it.

Is this a new thing, or have Viessmann made an error?

The horizontal flue will be coming out of a wall on the back of a little
annex on the back of the house. The roof is low and flat and the eves are
about 2.1m above ground. Flue needs to go lower than 2.1m to both meet the
200mm clearance below eaves rule and Viessmann's requirement that there be
300mm clearance above the boiler casing.

Technically, there's a path (private, in the garden) going by there,
although this could be tweaked.

Many thanks

Tim

In article ,
Tim S wrote:
Modern boilers not only don't need air for the combustion (as it comes
from outside) but also they don't need any for appliance cooling.


And to think that the old Potterton cast iron lump my dad installed in
the mid 70's had a rated output of about one radiator from its case!

Indeed - my Kingfisher situated in a large bathroom kept it toastie warm
even with the rad off - the Viessmann wouldn't stop ice forming on the
window. ;-)

--
*Why is the third hand on the watch called a second hand?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 00:18:43 +0000, Tim S wrote:

Ed Sirett coughed up some electrons that declared:


Modern boilers not only don't need air for the combustion (as it comes
from outside) but also they don't need any for appliance cooling.


Hi Ed,

If you're still around...

I've come across some conflicting information on flues (this case,
balanced, gas).

The Viessmann 100 Compact installation manual shows a flue lower than
2.1m above ground and *next to a "walkway"* as being unacceptable.

However, Part J makes no mention of any distances from "walkways" and
neither do any other Viessmann documents.

I'm aware a flue must be guarded if people are likely to make contact
with it.

Is this a new thing, or have Viessmann made an error?

The horizontal flue will be coming out of a wall on the back of a little
annex on the back of the house. The roof is low and flat and the eves
are about 2.1m above ground. Flue needs to go lower than 2.1m to both
meet the 200mm clearance below eaves rule and Viessmann's requirement
that there be 300mm clearance above the boiler casing.

Technically, there's a path (private, in the garden) going by there,
although this could be tweaked.

Forget Part J, if you follow the gas appliance makers instructions (which
may or may not supercede BS 5440) then you will be Part J compliant. Part
J are more general regulations on heat producing appliances - including
ones that really could set the house on fire!

IIRC BS5440-1 permits GAS flues between 300 and 2000mm above the ground
level of a walkway if there is a terminal guard. If Veissman wish to up
the rule to not allowing any flue below 2.1m above a walkway they have
every right to do so. However this may be a drawback commercially as it
will be a discouragement to choose this make in certain locations.

Sounds like you need to make the area unpaved?




--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 00:10:05 +0000, Tim S wrote:

Ed Sirett coughed up some electrons that declared:

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 19:30:41 +0000, Tim S wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) coughed up some electrons that declared:



But I'm probably talking ********. I haven't made a concerted effort
to calculate the ventilation requirements of the various things yet so
this will come out in the wash when I do the research properly

The (flueless) gas cooker only requires that there is some sort of
opening direct to outside air. (e.g. openable window). The log burner
does not come under BS 5440 but it would be a good idea to make sure
that it has enough air.

I would suggest (unless some normative document states otherwise) that
a permanent vent to outside air of at least 50cm² should do the trick.



Excellent - thanks Ed.

I have a vent in the room already (put there for the current gas
fire/back boiler).

I'll clean it and measure it, but it looks superficially like it's
=50cm2.

I'll have to be a bit careful because there'll be a cooker hood with
exhaust to outside going in too and I'm aware this may load the vent
(reduce its effective capacity) - I'll be sure to check on that too.

Although the wood burning stove does not come under BS5440 you would do
well to treat it as if it did, unless there are regs or instructions that
state things more accurately.

In BS5440-1 (open) flues must still work even when extraction devices in
the room and adjacent rooms are set to their maximum settings. You may
find that you then need a bigger vent to get things working OK.
You would discover this when the warmed flue fails a smoke test but passes
when you open the window.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

Ed Sirett coughed up some electrons that declared:

Forget Part J, if you follow the gas appliance makers instructions (which
may or may not supercede BS 5440) then you will be Part J compliant. Part
J are more general regulations on heat producing appliances - including
ones that really could set the house on fire!

IIRC BS5440-1 permits GAS flues between 300 and 2000mm above the ground
level of a walkway if there is a terminal guard. If Veissman wish to up
the rule to not allowing any flue below 2.1m above a walkway they have
every right to do so. However this may be a drawback commercially as it
will be a discouragement to choose this make in certain locations.

Thanks Ed. It is weird as they appear to have only applied it to this one
model (not that I've read all the manuals but I did look at some others).

Think I'll give them a ring and see why they've stated that. They might have
meant a public walkway rather than a garden path - it's not at all clear on
their diagram.

Sounds like you need to make the area unpaved?


That is of course the fallback. I can route the path further away from the
house at that point so it's not really a problem - well, not enough of a
problem to not use an otherwise ideal siting for the boiler.

Cheers

Tim

Ed Sirett coughed up some electrons that declared:


Although the wood burning stove does not come under BS5440 you would do
well to treat it as if it did, unless there are regs or instructions that
state things more accurately.

In BS5440-1 (open) flues must still work even when extraction devices in
the room and adjacent rooms are set to their maximum settings. You may
find that you then need a bigger vent to get things working OK.
You would discover this when the warmed flue fails a smoke test but passes
when you open the window.


Thanks again Ed.

Tim S coughed up some electrons that declared:

Think I'll give them a ring and see why they've stated that. They might
have meant a public walkway rather than a garden path - it's not at all
clear on their diagram.


I did and they said, for what it's worth, that the diagram is referring to a
flue discharging onto public walkway at less than 2.1m in height.

Makes perfect sense.

Cheers

Tim