The concrete floor in my new (but old) workshop used to have baker's
ovens bolted down to it, and they've left holes. In a room 15' x 25',
there's about 6' square to fill, mostly in two large holes around 2"
deep.

So what's my best option for some sort of screed to fill these in?
Buy something (brandnames?) or mix it myself (proportions?)? What's
the best technique for getting a reasonable flat finish afterwards.

The finished surface will have woodworking machinery in there, so the
floor wil see "workshop" use, but I'm not going to be rolling steel-
wheeled engine cranes or such across it all too often. It will be
painted overall afterwards, but I can't afford epoxy.


I also need to trench something in to provide power feeds for a couple
of centrally located machines. Any suggestions on how best to cable
this? Trench with lid, or just bury a pipe with a drawrope and leave a
big open access box at each end?

Thanks for any suggestions

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 09:08:16 -0800 (PST), Andy Dingley
wrote:

The concrete floor in my new (but old) workshop used to have baker's
ovens bolted down to it, and they've left holes. In a room 15' x 25',
there's about 6' square to fill, mostly in two large holes around 2"
deep.

So what's my best option for some sort of screed to fill these in?
Buy something (brandnames?) or mix it myself (proportions?)? What's
the best technique for getting a reasonable flat finish afterwards.

The finished surface will have woodworking machinery in there, so the
floor wil see "workshop" use, but I'm not going to be rolling steel-
wheeled engine cranes or such across it all too often. It will be
painted overall afterwards, but I can't afford epoxy.


I also need to trench something in to provide power feeds for a couple
of centrally located machines. Any suggestions on how best to cable
this? Trench with lid, or just bury a pipe with a drawrope and leave a
big open access box at each end?

Where do you live Andy - any where near Bury St Edmunds? I have some
alu trench with ply lid going to waste in my shed which you are
welcome to

Anna
--
Anna Kettle
Lime plaster repair and conservation
Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
Tel: (+44) 01359 230642
Mob: (+44) 07976 649862
Please look at my website for examples of my work at:
www.kettlenet.co.uk

Andy Dingley wrote:
The concrete floor in my new (but old) workshop used to have baker's
ovens bolted down to it, and they've left holes. In a room 15' x 25',
there's about 6' square to fill, mostly in two large holes around 2"
deep.

So what's my best option for some sort of screed to fill these in?
Buy something (brandnames?) or mix it myself (proportions?)? What's
the best technique for getting a reasonable flat finish afterwards.

Assuming there's no damp, I'd just pva (4:1) the holes and use bags of
B&Q general purpose mortar. After an hour or so, run a length of 2" x 1"
across to get it level, and smooth with a wooden trowel.
It held up well enough in my old workshop, although I tended not to move
heavy equipment about that much.
If there are feathered edges, I'd think about a 2 part latex screed.


The finished surface will have woodworking machinery in there, so the
floor wil see "workshop" use, but I'm not going to be rolling steel-
wheeled engine cranes or such across it all too often. It will be
painted overall afterwards, but I can't afford epoxy.


I also need to trench something in to provide power feeds for a couple
of centrally located machines. Any suggestions on how best to cable
this? Trench with lid, or just bury a pipe with a drawrope and leave a
big open access box at each end?

Thanks for any suggestions

On 15 Dec, 17:08, Andy Dingley wrote:
The concrete floor in my new (but old) workshop used to have baker's
ovens bolted down to it, and they've left holes. In a room 15' x 25',
there's about 6' square to fill, mostly in two large holes around 2"
deep.

Nice workshop gloat. [/envy]

So what's my best option for some sort of screed to fill these in? Buy something (brandnames?) or mix it myself(proportions?)?

If it is 50mm or so, normal screed would be fine. 4:1 or 5:1 sharp
sand:cement, in a pretty dry mix.

What's the best technique for getting a reasonable flat finish afterwards.

If the holes are well defined, tamping it down should end up pretty
smooth, but it won't feather well if the holes kind of trail out. If
that's the case then fill (most of) the holes with screed, let it set
for a while, then float over the whole lot with a little self-
levelling compound which will also give you a nice smooth surface
(helping to sweep it, etc). You'll need to find a mix which can be
used as a top surface though (rather than under a floor covering like
lino, tile, etc) - try a few helplines (Ardex, Mapei, F Ball are a
few names of many). Likely to be acrylic or waterbased, as the latex
ones don't set as hard.

I also need to trench something in to provide power feeds for a couple
of centrally located machines. Any suggestions on how best to cable
this? Trench with lid, or just bury a pipe with a drawrope and leave a
big open access box at each end?

I'd go for the pipe/conduit, less to trip over (given that no floor
covering is going over it).

If this is permanent, and you have the budget, I'd think about
floating a ply or even chip floor over the concrete (assuming it is
levell enough), but it would cost a bit more. More pleasant to work
on and more friendly to the odd dropped tool. That way you could drop
the SLC if you otherwise needed it.

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
The concrete floor in my new (but old) workshop used to have baker's
ovens bolted down to it, and they've left holes. In a room 15' x 25',
there's about 6' square to fill, mostly in two large holes around 2"
deep.

So what's my best option for some sort of screed to fill these in?
Buy something (brandnames?) or mix it myself (proportions?)? What's
the best technique for getting a reasonable flat finish afterwards.

The finished surface will have woodworking machinery in there, so the
floor wil see "workshop" use, but I'm not going to be rolling steel-
wheeled engine cranes or such across it all too often. It will be
painted overall afterwards, but I can't afford epoxy.


I also need to trench something in to provide power feeds for a couple
of centrally located machines. Any suggestions on how best to cable
this? Trench with lid, or just bury a pipe with a drawrope and leave a
big open access box at each end?

Thanks for any suggestions


power wash the surface, then hot water & soap ... to get rid of grease etc.

Etch the surface with floor acid (flooring supplies sell it) .... that gives
it a good key ... and then pout over a self leveling polymer screed.

If you follow instructions for self leveling compound (spiked roller etc)
you will have a perfectly flat and hard wearing surface.

I would cut trench using a 9" grinder with diamond blade, concrete in
plastic conduit with draw string.
If trench is shallow, put a steel mesh on top before you pout screed -
protection only

On 15 Dec, 17:14, (Anna Kettle) wrote:

Where do you live Andy - any where near Bury St Edmunds?

That's very kind of you, but I'm a long way away - right next to the
Severn Bridge, Welsh side.

On 15 Dec, 17:56, wrote:

Nice workshop gloat. *[/envy]

This is just part of it 8-) One of the buildings - It's about 1,000
sq. ft. total.

(I am St*v* F*rth and you peasants aren't fit to pickle my eggs)



If the holes are well defined, tamping it down should end up pretty
smooth, but it won't feather well if the holes kind of trail out. *

They're fairly square edged, or I can grind of a rebate out to not
leave a feather. Last time I messed with screeds it was a too-thin
layer of a self-levelling compound over a damp substrate and under
tiles - not a successful result 8-(


If this is permanent, and you have the budget, I'd think about
floating a ply or even chip floor over the concrete

That's a strong possibility for the adjoining building (it's an L-
shape with a wide opening) where I plan to put the benches. Around the
machines I think concrete should suffice.

On 15 Dec, 18:23, Andy Dingley wrote:
On 15 Dec, 17:56, wrote:

Nice workshop gloat. *[/envy]

This is just part of it *8-) *One of the buildings - It's about 1,000
sq. ft. total.

Gah, stop it.

That's a strong possibility for the adjoining building (it's an L-
shape with a wide opening) where I plan to put the benches. Around the
machines I think concrete should suffice.

Fair enough. Sounds like screed in the holes will do, unless you want
to get a posher smoother surface with SLC - either way, some surface
prep would be a good idea as Rick suggested, given the past usage (at
least scabbling the holes or criss crossing them with a diamond blade
to reveal some fresh concrete before you screed them). Don't PVA if
the base is in any way damp - if it is and you want to prime use an
SBR (but I'd just use a cement/water slurry).

Andy Dingley wrote:
The concrete floor in my new (but old) workshop used to have baker's
ovens bolted down to it, and they've left holes. In a room 15' x 25',
there's about 6' square to fill, mostly in two large holes around 2"
deep.

So what's my best option for some sort of screed to fill these in?
Buy something (brandnames?) or mix it myself (proportions?)? What's
the best technique for getting a reasonable flat finish afterwards.

The finished surface will have woodworking machinery in there, so the
floor wil see "workshop" use, but I'm not going to be rolling steel-
wheeled engine cranes or such across it all too often. It will be
painted overall afterwards, but I can't afford epoxy.

An ordinary concrete mix will do fine. You can buy ready mixed aggregate and
adding cement in a ratio of 1 to 6 will give you a medium strength mix which
should be ok for a workshop floor. You'll be surprised how much you'll need
though. About 0.2 cubic metres or 400kg of materials by my calculations.
Slap it in and smooth over with a straight plank then you can run a float
over it before it sets if you want the surface to be very smooth.


I also need to trench something in to provide power feeds for a couple
of centrally located machines. Any suggestions on how best to cable
this? Trench with lid, or just bury a pipe with a drawrope and leave a
big open access box at each end?

It'd be much easier to run the cable round the walls and across the roof and
then down than go digging holes for it. You don't bollox an otherwise good
floor just to get power feeds in to machines which may want to move at a
later date anyway.
--
Dave Baker

Andy Dingley wrote:
The concrete floor in my new (but old) workshop used to have baker's
ovens bolted down to it, and they've left holes. In a room 15' x 25',
there's about 6' square to fill, mostly in two large holes around 2"
deep.


2" deep is enough for a concrete fill I'd say.

Dunno if this is best practcie, but Id use 2:1 sand:cement and shove a
load of pea shingle in as well, then chip out the sides a bit irregular
like, and maybe throw a sheet of chicken wire in the bottom ,and splodge
a bucketful in and get floating away with a float.


So what's my best option for some sort of screed to fill these in?
Buy something (brandnames?) or mix it myself (proportions?)? What's
the best technique for getting a reasonable flat finish afterwards.

The finished surface will have woodworking machinery in there, so the
floor wil see "workshop" use, but I'm not going to be rolling steel-
wheeled engine cranes or such across it all too often. It will be
painted overall afterwards, but I can't afford epoxy.


I also need to trench something in to provide power feeds for a couple
of centrally located machines. Any suggestions on how best to cable
this? Trench with lid, or just bury a pipe with a drawrope and leave a
big open access box at each end?


your choice. Id personally put in a pipe and drawstring.

hire a concrete saw to cut deep and then chip out the whole floor depth
and lay the pipe deep with same mix over.


Thanks for any suggestions

In message , Dave Baker
writes

I also need to trench something in to provide power feeds for a couple
of centrally located machines. Any suggestions on how best to cable
this? Trench with lid, or just bury a pipe with a drawrope and leave a
big open access box at each end?

It'd be much easier to run the cable round the walls and across the roof and
then down than go digging holes for it. You don't bollox an otherwise good
floor just to get power feeds in to machines which may want to move at a
later date anyway.

Quite!

Also, you may need extract ducting for dust and chips. Route the cable
the same way. Benches, morticer, pull over saw, drill press can all
stand near the walls anyway.

How are you going to keep the chill off?

regards

--
Tim Lamb

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
snipped

I also need to trench something in to provide power feeds for a couple
of centrally located machines. Any suggestions on how best to cable
this? Trench with lid, or just bury a pipe with a drawrope and leave a
big open access box at each end?

Can you drop a supply from the ceiling/roof?

Don

On 15 Dec, 21:36, "Dave Baker" wrote:

It'd be much easier to run the cable round the walls and across the roof and
then down than go digging holes for it.

Not for woodworking though, You need clear access.

Andy Dingley wrote:
On 15 Dec, 21:36, "Dave Baker" wrote:

It'd be much easier to run the cable round the walls and across the roof and
then down than go digging holes for it.

Not for woodworking though, You need clear access.

Too right.

In message
, Andy
Dingley writes
On 15 Dec, 21:36, "Dave Baker" wrote:

It'd be much easier to run the cable round the walls and across the roof and
then down than go digging holes for it.

Not for woodworking though, You need clear access.

8' x 4' stuff on a table saw, maybe. Planer thicknesser needs a mile at
either end and space to carry the work back to the front. Don't have a
spindle but guess that is ends and front.

regards

--
Tim Lamb

Tim Lamb wrote:
In message
, Andy
Dingley writes
On 15 Dec, 21:36, "Dave Baker" wrote:

It'd be much easier to run the cable round the walls and across the
roof and
then down than go digging holes for it.

Not for woodworking though, You need clear access.

8' x 4' stuff on a table saw, maybe. Planer thicknesser needs a mile at
either end and space to carry the work back to the front. Don't have a
spindle but guess that is ends and front.

Well yes, NORMALLY.

But jig routing on a table with a moulder underneath will always end up
with you needing to get to THAT side for a large piece.

If the machine does NOT have a piece of itself above to restrict where
the work goes, its a damned sight better to not restrict it with cable
from on high, and ,of course, cable under the floor is protected. From
idiots manhandlng 8ft lumps of timber., Or letting pieces fly out of the
spindle moulder, or from using chainsaws to rough out some bigger chunks.

Theres anther issue. Restriction of visibility. One office we had had
pillars coming down, so naturally we used them for cables, but being in
a large space with pillars always resulted in people leaning and
stretching to talk to someone the other side..

I say anything you do to keep the eye level space clear is Good News.
The only time services high up proved successful, was hand pneumatic
tools in spring loaded pull ups, so the airlines were never on the floor
or bench where they got damaged.


If a machine is free standing and not against the wall, under the floor
is the only way.



regards

In message , The Natural
Philosopher writes

I say anything you do to keep the eye level space clear is Good News.
The only time services high up proved successful, was hand pneumatic
tools in spring loaded pull ups, so the airlines were never on the
floor or bench where they got damaged.


If a machine is free standing and not against the wall, under the floor
is the only way.

OK but...

Let us hope Andy gets his machinery layout right first time, there are
never any additions and that dust extract is by some form of magic:-)

regards


--
Tim Lamb

In message
, Andy
Dingley writes
On 17 Dec, 11:02, Tim Lamb wrote:

Let us hope Andy gets his machinery layout right first time,

That's why I've got the whole place CADed up. Then printed it out,
stuck it to a steel whiteboard / magnetic cardstock for the machines,
and played with it as a scale model.

OTOH, I don't even have a couple of the machines yet. One advantage of
the new place is that I'm now in the market for 3-phase kit, which
will likely be an 18" planer-thicknesser and a spindle moulder. I've
left gaps for them, but can't do much more detail as yet.

Pity Wales is so far away. I could dump my big bandsaw on you:-)


there are
never any additions and that dust extract is by some form of magic:-)

I don't need much dust extraction on the big iron, as it tends to be
slower and throws bigger chips. Most of this is collectable by gravity
alone, as it's big and heavy enough to fall out of suspension. I'm
only working at a volume where hand-dumping the chip bucket twice a
day isn't a problem. The thicknesser needs chip extraction on a 4"
hose and the fast stuff like routers and sanders needs high-velocity
dust extraction (2" hose into per-machine cyclones) to keep it under
control. The bandsaw is somewhere inbetween, but they're easy as they
naturally have to have a "blind" side.

The main "island" tool is the cabinet saw. I'm contemplating overhead
access for guarding and dust extraction (there's a convenient roof
truss) but not for electrics.

If I go crazy with dust extraction I've got an isolated 6' square
shedlet alongside which is likely to get sound insulated and used to
house compressor, any multi-hp extraction kit and maybe even a
hydraulic power supply for a Moog. Running 20-30' dust collection runs
is no fun though: you're having to look at 6' metal pipes and that
needs an awful lot of power behind the fan. Seems simpler IMHO to
stick with a separate cyclone / fan on each machine.

I take it that was 6"? Mine runs OK with 2hp. The downside of remote
extraction is that you forget to empty the bags and destroy the fan
motor.

regards

--
Tim Lamb