My girlfriend wants a pine cladded bathroom ceiling.
I think the best way to do that is to fix a 2x1 framework to the present
ceiling, then the cladding attached to the framing.
This will leave a gap of approx 1.5" between the framing, which could be
insulated to keep the room warmer.
Would it be advisable to insulate the void?
If so, which sort of insulation would be best?
Thanks
Alan.

--
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A.Lee wrote:
My girlfriend wants a pine cladded bathroom ceiling.
I think the best way to do that is to fix a 2x1 framework to the present
ceiling, then the cladding attached to the framing.
This will leave a gap of approx 1.5" between the framing, which could be
insulated to keep the room warmer.
Would it be advisable to insulate the void?
If so, which sort of insulation would be best?
Thanks
Alan.

Can't do any harm. I'd use 25mm polystyrene sheet. Comes as 8x4 sheets
and easily cut with a knife to be a tight fit between the battens and
hold itself in place.
Cover with a polythene vapour barrier before fitting the pine cladding
to prevent condensation. Also seal (varnish/diluted PVA) the backside of
the pine to help avoiding curling. Then varnish the visible face.

Bob

A.Lee wrote:
My girlfriend wants a pine cladded bathroom ceiling.
I think the best way to do that is to fix a 2x1 framework to the present
ceiling, then the cladding attached to the framing.
This will leave a gap of approx 1.5" between the framing, which could be
insulated to keep the room warmer.
Would it be advisable to insulate the void?

Yes.

If so, which sort of insulation would be best?

Polyisocyanurate foam = Kingspan or Celotex. The lowest conductivity of
any easily available insulant, and highly fire resistant too. unlike
styrene foam.. And doesn't wreck your hands and lungs, unlike rockwool.



Thanks
Alan.

In article ,
(A.Lee) writes:
My girlfriend wants a pine cladded bathroom ceiling.
I think the best way to do that is to fix a 2x1 framework to the present
ceiling, then the cladding attached to the framing.
This will leave a gap of approx 1.5" between the framing, which could be
insulated to keep the room warmer.
Would it be advisable to insulate the void?

Yes, but even more important, you need to prevent condensation in
that void.

If so, which sort of insulation would be best?

When I was in the builder's merchant a few months back looking
for Celotex (or equivalent), I found they did shrink-wrap bundles
of 2x4 boards (IIRC) which easily went in the boot of the car and
were ideal for trimming to size and wedging between the framework
for the new ceiling, which I was installing.

So, I would use one of these foil-faced insulation boards cut to
fit as closely as possible into the frame. Then tape over the
joints and frame with aluminium tape to make it as air-tight as
you can, to prevent any moisture from getting through. The shrink-
wrapped bundles only came in 50mm (I had been looking for 25mm,
but decided these were so convenient I'd use them anyway). The
tickness of boards you can obtain may affect the size of the frame
timbers you choose to use.

Don't mount any recessed halogens into a wooden ceiling with
insulation above it.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher writes:

Polyisocyanurate foam = Kingspan or Celotex. The lowest conductivity of
any easily available insulant, and highly fire resistant too. unlike
styrene foam.. And doesn't wreck your hands and lungs, unlike rockwool.

It's only fire resistant if you get boards with fire retardant.
Otherwise it burns pretty similarly to polystyrene foam.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ,
(A.Lee) writes:
My girlfriend wants a pine cladded bathroom ceiling.

Don't mount any recessed halogens into a wooden ceiling with
insulation above it.

Thanks for the replies about insulation.
Now to the lighting.
Yes, it was going to be 4 recesssed 12v halogens.
Presumably they would get too hot for the installation, so will be a
fire risk?
Any alternative, or way to fit them safely?
Thanks
Alan.

--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

"A.Lee" wrote in message
...
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ,
(A.Lee) writes:
My girlfriend wants a pine cladded bathroom ceiling.

Don't mount any recessed halogens into a wooden ceiling with
insulation above it.

Thanks for the replies about insulation.
Now to the lighting.
Yes, it was going to be 4 recesssed 12v halogens.
Presumably they would get too hot for the installation, so will be a
fire risk?
Any alternative, or way to fit them safely?
Thanks
Alan.


What's above the original ceiling? You would need more of a drop than you
originally planned if you wanted to install low voltage recessed lighting
anyway. You need at least 4 inches in a dead space gap because of the heat
from halogen lamps. If you want to install the low voltage halogens, then
make the drop a bit wider and leave out the insulation all together.

Also, recessed lighting will allow the warm moist air to rise into the void
and the insulation would have grabbed it and held it up there. That's a
recipe for dampness damage to the back of the timber cladding. And you
definitely can't seal the holes around the light fittings to stop it.
Leaving the holes open around the lights will allow ventilation of both
dampness and heat from the lamps and so keep the dead space dry.

Back to the drawing board young man? :-)

Bob Minchin wrote:

Can't do any harm. I'd use 25mm polystyrene sheet.

Might not do much good though. What's above the existing ceiling? If
it's a loft space and there's already 6 in. or more of insulation
therein, adding another inch of EPS or PIR foam is going to make the
square root of not very much difference. OTOH if the space above is
cold and poorly insulated this could constitute a significant improvement.

NB lowering a bathroom ceiling might have electrical implications. A
ceiling light or other fitting that was previously outside the zones
might be brought into zone 1 or 2 (if brought below 2.25 m above floor
level). If this applies the light must be suitable (at least IPx4, and
approved by the manufacturer for use in zone 1, if relevant). Also the
earth of the lighting circuit will need to be connected to any
supplementary bonding required in the bathroom (unless exempt by dint of
meeting the relevant 17th edition conditions).

--
Andy

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher writes:
Polyisocyanurate foam = Kingspan or Celotex. The lowest conductivity of
any easily available insulant, and highly fire resistant too. unlike
styrene foam.. And doesn't wreck your hands and lungs, unlike rockwool.

It's only fire resistant if you get boards with fire retardant.
Otherwise it burns pretty similarly to polystyrene foam.

well all I know is that celotex doesn't burn. Polystyrene does.

A.Lee wrote:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ,
(A.Lee) writes:
My girlfriend wants a pine cladded bathroom ceiling.

Don't mount any recessed halogens into a wooden ceiling with
insulation above it.

Thanks for the replies about insulation.
Now to the lighting.
Yes, it was going to be 4 recesssed 12v halogens.
Presumably they would get too hot for the installation, so will be a
fire risk?
Any alternative, or way to fit them safely?

if you use celotex, or other fire resistant foam, you CAN use ceramic
'flower pots' that will keep the insulant from too much overheating, but
you need to ditch the insulation around them, and around any LV
transformers.

What you need is enough heat transfer from the hot parts to the room
inside to prevent overheating.


Thanks
Alan.

On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 14:44:16 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:


"A.Lee" wrote in message
.. .
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ,
(A.Lee) writes:
My girlfriend wants a pine cladded bathroom ceiling.

Don't mount any recessed halogens into a wooden ceiling with
insulation above it.

Thanks for the replies about insulation.
Now to the lighting.
Yes, it was going to be 4 recesssed 12v halogens.
Presumably they would get too hot for the installation, so will be a
fire risk?
Any alternative, or way to fit them safely?
Thanks
Alan.


What's above the original ceiling? You would need more of a drop than you
originally planned if you wanted to install low voltage recessed lighting
anyway. You need at least 4 inches in a dead space gap because of the heat
from halogen lamps. If you want to install the low voltage halogens, then
make the drop a bit wider and leave out the insulation all together.

Also, recessed lighting will allow the warm moist air to rise into the void
and the insulation would have grabbed it and held it up there. That's a
recipe for dampness damage to the back of the timber cladding. And you
definitely can't seal the holes around the light fittings to stop it.
Leaving the holes open around the lights will allow ventilation of both
dampness and heat from the lamps and so keep the dead space dry.

Back to the drawing board young man? :-)

And while you are at it try and persuade her that pine cladding
ceilings are so yesterday . Get her to accept Gyproc and coving
painted white .

In article ,
(A.Lee) writes:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ,
(A.Lee) writes:
My girlfriend wants a pine cladded bathroom ceiling.

Don't mount any recessed halogens into a wooden ceiling with
insulation above it.

Thanks for the replies about insulation.
Now to the lighting.
Yes, it was going to be 4 recesssed 12v halogens.
Presumably they would get too hot for the installation, so will be a
fire risk?
Any alternative, or way to fit them safely?

Quite apart from the safety/flammability issues in this case,
they are appalling for general lighting, and you need good
general lighting in a bathroom, and they're horribly inefficient.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
(A.Lee) writes:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ,
(A.Lee) writes:
My girlfriend wants a pine cladded bathroom ceiling.

Don't mount any recessed halogens into a wooden ceiling with
insulation above it.
Thanks for the replies about insulation.
Now to the lighting.
Yes, it was going to be 4 recesssed 12v halogens.
Presumably they would get too hot for the installation, so will be a
fire risk?
Any alternative, or way to fit them safely?

Quite apart from the safety/flammability issues in this case,
they are appalling for general lighting, and you need good
general lighting in a bathroom, and they're horribly inefficient.

I like em, but have to agree.

one bathroom here has a single 60w luminaire. Its fine.

Another has 3x60W halogens. Its not.