A caravan site needs 36 mains electricity hook up points (230Vac double
points on weather proof posts). All points must be capable of supplying a
minimum of 20 amps. The supply head to the site is capable of giving all
the demands set. Discrimination is allowed. All points must comply with
current IEE and CTEC standards.

How would I go about this installation?

"BigWallop" wrote in message
om...
A caravan site needs 36 mains electricity hook up points (230Vac double
points on weather proof posts). All points must be capable of supplying a
minimum of 20 amps. The supply head to the site is capable of giving all
the demands set. Discrimination is allowed. All points must comply with
current IEE and CTEC standards.

How would I go about this installation?

My apologies. Each hook up point needs to supply a minimum of 30 amps. I
need new glasses, or a better brain. :-)

BigWallop wrote:

"BigWallop" wrote in message
om...
A caravan site needs 36 mains electricity hook up points (230Vac double
points on weather proof posts). All points must be capable of supplying a
minimum of 20 amps. The supply head to the site is capable of giving all
the demands set. Discrimination is allowed. All points must comply with
current IEE and CTEC standards.

How would I go about this installation?

My apologies. Each hook up point needs to supply a minimum of 30 amps. I
need new glasses, or a better brain. :-)

Eh, I thought caravans used the 16A flavour of IEC309 connector? Or does
each point serve multiple caravans?

BigWallop wrote:

A caravan site needs 36 mains electricity hook up points
How would I go about this installation?

Figure 7 and the "Special Locations" section of this probably fall into
the grannies+eggs category

http://www2.theiet.org/Publish/WireR..._adverts.pd f

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote:

"BigWallop" wrote in message
om...
A caravan site needs 36 mains electricity hook up points (230Vac double
points on weather proof posts). All points must be capable of
supplying a
minimum of 20 amps. The supply head to the site is capable of giving
all
the demands set. Discrimination is allowed. All points must comply
with
current IEE and CTEC standards.

How would I go about this installation?

My apologies. Each hook up point needs to supply a minimum of 30 amps.
I
need new glasses, or a better brain. :-)

Eh, I thought caravans used the 16A flavour of IEC309 connector? Or does
each point serve multiple caravans?

Double points, with discrimination allowed. Each point must be capable of a
supply at 30 amps. That's 60 amps or more at each hook up. This is not a
touring van site installation. That's to easy. :-)

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
et...
BigWallop wrote:

A caravan site needs 36 mains electricity hook up points
How would I go about this installation?

Figure 7 and the "Special Locations" section of this probably fall into
the grannies+eggs category


http://www2.theiet.org/Publish/WireR..._adverts.pd f


Note 7: is worth looking at for this, but I need to know more. That's the
safety side of the earthing provision, which is also what I need to know
more about for an installation like the one described above. An open field
with electrical hook up points spread across it. There is also to be, I
have just found out, near by water supply points to each of these positions.
How can this be done safely?

"BigWallop" wrote in message
om...

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
et...
BigWallop wrote:

A caravan site needs 36 mains electricity hook up points
How would I go about this installation?

Figure 7 and the "Special Locations" section of this probably fall into
the grannies+eggs category



http://www2.theiet.org/Publish/WireR..._adverts.pd f


Note 7: is worth looking at for this, but I need to know more. That's the
safety side of the earthing provision, which is also what I need to know
more about for an installation like the one described above. An open
field
with electrical hook up points spread across it. There is also to be, I
have just found out, near by water supply points to each of these
positions.
How can this be done safely?


My apologies again. These are double points to supply a minimum of 32 amps
to each point. That's 16 amp hook ups like you said, Andy. Further reading
of the proposal says at the end "To allow the supply of services to touring
campers and caravan users."

My worries are over. Forget the poser that was set earlier. :-) LOL

14 pages of wording that say one thing and mean another. Cheezo!!!

"BigWallop" wrote in message
om...

"BigWallop" wrote in message
om...

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
et...
BigWallop wrote:

A caravan site needs 36 mains electricity hook up points
How would I go about this installation?

Figure 7 and the "Special Locations" section of this probably fall into
the grannies+eggs category



http://www2.theiet.org/Publish/WireR..._adverts.pd f


Note 7: is worth looking at for this, but I need to know more. That's
the
safety side of the earthing provision, which is also what I need to know
more about for an installation like the one described above. An open
field
with electrical hook up points spread across it. There is also to be, I
have just found out, near by water supply points to each of these
positions.
How can this be done safely?


My apologies again. These are double points to supply a minimum of 32
amps
to each point. That's 16 amp hook ups like you said, Andy. Further
reading
of the proposal says at the end "To allow the supply of services to
touring
campers and caravan users."

My worries are over. Forget the poser that was set earlier. :-) LOL

14 pages of wording that say one thing and mean another. Cheezo!!!




Its not a poser, it is not a d-i-y job, it is a job for an electrical
contractor. The wiring matters article is probably no longer relevant
because caravan parks were changed in the 17th edition. You need to get
someone in to do this work for you because caravan parks can drive an awful
lot of power.

Regards

Steve Dawson
(currently working on caravan park upgrades!)

BigWallop coughed up some electrons that declared:


"BigWallop" wrote in message
om...

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
et...
BigWallop wrote:

A caravan site needs 36 mains electricity hook up points
How would I go about this installation?

Figure 7 and the "Special Locations" section of this probably fall into
the grannies+eggs category




http://www2.theiet.org/Publish/WireR..._adverts.pd f


Note 7: is worth looking at for this, but I need to know more. That's
the safety side of the earthing provision, which is also what I need to
know
more about for an installation like the one described above. An open
field
with electrical hook up points spread across it. There is also to be, I
have just found out, near by water supply points to each of these
positions.
How can this be done safely?


My apologies again. These are double points to supply a minimum of 32
amps
to each point. That's 16 amp hook ups like you said, Andy. Further
reading of the proposal says at the end "To allow the supply of services
to touring campers and caravan users."

My worries are over. Forget the poser that was set earlier. :-) LOL

14 pages of wording that say one thing and mean another. Cheezo!!!

I'm not sure you're permitted to put a 16A commando socket on anything more
than a 16A protected circuit. Normally it's one socket to one breaker if
they are expected to be hooked up most/all of the time.

I would have thought (and this is outside of my area) that you'd either have
a lot of 16A radial circuits going back to base, or run a fairly heavy
distribution circuit to each group of pitches and use a local distribution
board to fan out.

The earthing provisions for this sort of setup are well beyond me, but it is
a safe bet that they will be specific and onerous.

It's an exam question isn;t it?

Cheers

Tim

Stephen Dawson wrote:

Its not a poser, it is not a d-i-y job, it is a job for an electrical
contractor.

From recent postings I believe Mr Wallop is a sparks, but is more(?)
familiar with working on the other side of the meter.

The wiring matters article is probably no longer relevant
because caravan parks were changed in the 17th edition.

Fair enough.

currently working on caravan park upgrades!

So you are presumably in a good position to direct the O/P to the
relevant sections of the 17th ed. OSG?

Stephen Dawson wrote:

caravan parks were changed in the 17th edition.

From section 708 of Guide to the Wiring Regulations:
17th Edition IEE Wiring Regulations (BS 7671: 2008)

"Caravan and camping parks (708)
The main modification for the 17th Edition is that pitch socket-outlets
are to be individually protected by a 30 mA RCD."

BigWallop wrote:
A caravan site needs 36 mains electricity hook up points (230Vac double
points on weather proof posts). All points must be capable of supplying a
minimum of 20 amps. The supply head to the site is capable of giving all
the demands set. Discrimination is allowed. All points must comply with
current IEE and CTEC standards.

How would I go about this installation?




A single individual 20A underground to every post from a single RCD or MCB.

And a 3 phase supply? and a BIG consumer uniit?

BigWallop wrote:
"BigWallop" wrote in message
om...

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
et...
BigWallop wrote:

A caravan site needs 36 mains electricity hook up points
How would I go about this installation?

Figure 7 and the "Special Locations" section of this probably fall
into the grannies+eggs category



http://www2.theiet.org/Publish/WireR..._adverts.pd f


Note 7: is worth looking at for this, but I need to know more.
That's the safety side of the earthing provision, which is also what
I need to know more about for an installation like the one described
above. An open field with electrical hook up points spread across
it. There is also to be, I have just found out, near by water
supply points to each of these positions. How can this be done
safely?


My apologies again. These are double points to supply a minimum of
32 amps to each point. That's 16 amp hook ups like you said, Andy.
Further reading of the proposal says at the end "To allow the supply
of services to touring campers and caravan users."

My worries are over. Forget the poser that was set earlier. :-) LOL

14 pages of wording that say one thing and mean another. Cheezo!!!

My guess would be (And I have never done anything like this before!)....

3 phase supply into site I assume?

I would imagine you would subdivide each of the main three phases into 5 sub
mains, and use 4 each of these sub-mains to feed the posts (So there is a
spare sub-main on each phase for other things on the site.

Each sub-main is protected by a 100A fuse and 100mA time delay RCD.

Then one of each phase is taken to one of 4 distribution points feeding 9
posts (So this DP has 9 x 32A MCB's in)

Then in each post, it has 2 x 16A RCBO's, so the user can reset their own
tripped breaker!

This way, if they need a three phase hook-up installed later, you already
have three phase at the DP's

No idea on earthing, but as I would assume the water will be supplied in
plastic, I would assume bonding to this would not be necessary?

You might also want to run another circuit to each DP, for sight lighting,
maybe even CAT5e for future WiFi access points, telephones, TV distribution,
or better control of the site lighting

I suppose you could put DECT base stations in each hook-up, then the phone
and charger can be rented from the site. (If there is good mobile coverage,
this probably wouldn't be that popular though!) All they would need would be
a hotel style PBX

As I said before, I have never even thought about this before now, let alone
done it, so please don't take any of it as advice!

Toby..

BigWallop wrote:
A caravan site needs 36 mains electricity hook up points (230Vac double
points on weather proof posts). All points must be capable of supplying a
minimum of 20 amps. The supply head to the site is capable of giving all
the demands set. Discrimination is allowed. All points must comply with
current IEE and CTEC standards.

What exactly is the requirement "discrimination is allowed"?

I could understand a requirement that discrimination is *required* or
diversity is allowed...

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote:
A caravan site needs 36 mains electricity hook up points (230Vac double
points on weather proof posts). All points must be capable of supplying
a
minimum of 20 amps. The supply head to the site is capable of giving
all
the demands set. Discrimination is allowed. All points must comply
with
current IEE and CTEC standards.

What exactly is the requirement "discrimination is allowed"?

I could understand a requirement that discrimination is *required* or
diversity is allowed...

John.


No specification on the material used. If we think something is best for
the particular situation, we are allowed to use it without consultation or
change to previous agreement. Discrimination is allowed. I'm surprised you
haven't had that on a works proposal before.

Diversity is not allowed on the specific requirement of the job. The site
has to have a minimum supply voltage and current rating to each point,
whether it's use, half used or not used at all. Therefore, diversity is not
to be discriminated. :-)

BigWallop wrote:
A caravan site needs 36 mains electricity hook up points (230Vac double
points on weather proof posts). All points must be capable of supplying a
minimum of 20 amps. The supply head to the site is capable of giving all
the demands set. Discrimination is allowed.

Do you mean diversity?

I would suggest using a ring circuit in hefty SWA (but less hefty
because it's a ring) per section of the site - 12 points per ring and
3 rings would balance across phases. 30mA 2x16A (or whatever) RCBO at
each point or pair of points. Maybe a 100mA RCD on each ring. Much as
what Toby said but rings instead of radials to reduce the number of
circuits, conductor size and volts drop. The main conundrum would be
conductor size and terminal current-carrying capacity of the sockets
(in the same way that a 13A socket terminals has to carry 32A on the
continuity of the ring).

Re the water, my local station has small stanchions along the
platform, with 16A sockets and an adjacent water connection, for use
by the overnight train cleaning crews. AFAICS the water taps use some
form of bayonet hose connection with what looks like a (gas) lever-
valve. The sockets are in IP rated enclosures with flip-up lids and
the taps have long nozzles which would squirt well away from the
sockets. So it's certainly do-able.

Owain

"BigWallop" wrote in message
om...
A caravan site needs 36 mains electricity hook up points (230Vac double
points on weather proof posts). All points must be capable of supplying a
minimum of 20 amps. The supply head to the site is capable of giving all
the demands set. Discrimination is allowed. All points must comply with
current IEE and CTEC standards.

How would I go about this installation?

I would start with high security locking wheel nuts for my van.

Adam

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
om...

"BigWallop" wrote in message
om...
A caravan site needs 36 mains electricity hook up points (230Vac double
points on weather proof posts). All points must be capable of supplying
a
minimum of 20 amps. The supply head to the site is capable of giving
all
the demands set. Discrimination is allowed. All points must comply
with
current IEE and CTEC standards.

How would I go about this installation?

I would start with high security locking wheel nuts for my van.

Adam


LOL !!! Never thought of that one. A visit to Halfords before a visit to
site, it is then. :-)

"BigWallop" wrote in message
om...

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
om...

"BigWallop" wrote in message
om...
A caravan site needs 36 mains electricity hook up points (230Vac
double
points on weather proof posts). All points must be capable of
supplying
a
minimum of 20 amps. The supply head to the site is capable of giving
all
the demands set. Discrimination is allowed. All points must comply
with
current IEE and CTEC standards.

How would I go about this installation?

I would start with high security locking wheel nuts for my van.

Adam


LOL !!! Never thought of that one. A visit to Halfords before a visit to
site, it is then. :-)

So is it a gypsy camp you are wanting to wire up? I have worked on a few.

Usually it is an armoured supply to the posts, with one weatherproof post
supplying two vans. The post consists of a TT supply from the armoured cable
and a waterproof box containing a CU with a 30mA RCD main switch and two 16A
MCBs and two electric meters.

Adam

BigWallop wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote:
A caravan site needs 36 mains electricity hook up points (230Vac double
points on weather proof posts). All points must be capable of supplying
a
minimum of 20 amps. The supply head to the site is capable of giving
all
the demands set. Discrimination is allowed. All points must comply
with
current IEE and CTEC standards.
What exactly is the requirement "discrimination is allowed"?

I could understand a requirement that discrimination is *required* or
diversity is allowed...

John.


No specification on the material used. If we think something is best for
the particular situation, we are allowed to use it without consultation or
change to previous agreement. Discrimination is allowed. I'm surprised you
haven't had that on a works proposal before.

Ah, ok I was thinking of the technical meaning of the word - i.e.
containing trips to the locale of the fault etc.

Many of the contracts I see seem to like the American style phrase "it
shall be x, 'or equal'".


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
et...
BigWallop wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote:
A caravan site needs 36 mains electricity hook up points (230Vac
double
points on weather proof posts). All points must be capable of
supplying
a
minimum of 20 amps. The supply head to the site is capable of giving
all
the demands set. Discrimination is allowed. All points must comply
with
current IEE and CTEC standards.
What exactly is the requirement "discrimination is allowed"?

I could understand a requirement that discrimination is *required* or
diversity is allowed...

John.


No specification on the material used. If we think something is best
for
the particular situation, we are allowed to use it without consultation
or
change to previous agreement. Discrimination is allowed. I'm surprised
you
haven't had that on a works proposal before.

Ah, ok I was thinking of the technical meaning of the word - i.e.
containing trips to the locale of the fault etc.

Many of the contracts I see seem to like the American style phrase "it
shall be x, 'or equal'".

Cheers,
John.

It's nice to have someone hand you a proposed installation and have you make
all the decisions on what you want to install. We do get the ones with the
wording of Use that or what ever you think is better, but isn't it nicer to
have "Discrimination is allowed" to tell you they trust you. :-)

wrote:
BigWallop wrote:
A caravan site needs 36 mains electricity hook up points (230Vac
double points on weather proof posts). All points must be capable
of supplying a minimum of 20 amps. The supply head to the site is
capable of giving all the demands set. Discrimination is allowed.

Do you mean diversity?

I would suggest using a ring circuit in hefty SWA (but less hefty
because it's a ring) per section of the site - 12 points per ring and
3 rings would balance across phases. 30mA 2x16A (or whatever) RCBO at
each point or pair of points. Maybe a 100mA RCD on each ring. Much as
what Toby said but rings instead of radials to reduce the number of
circuits, conductor size and volts drop. The main conundrum would be
conductor size and terminal current-carrying capacity of the sockets
(in the same way that a 13A socket terminals has to carry 32A on the
continuity of the ring).

Re the water, my local station has small stanchions along the
platform, with 16A sockets and an adjacent water connection, for use
by the overnight train cleaning crews.

I thought the railways were all 110v?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

ARWadsworth wrote:
"BigWallop" wrote in message
om...

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
om...

"BigWallop" wrote in message
om...
A caravan site needs 36 mains electricity hook up points (230Vac
double points on weather proof posts). All points must be capable
of supplying a minimum of 20 amps. The supply head to the site is
capable of giving all the demands set. Discrimination is allowed.
All points must comply with current IEE and CTEC standards.

How would I go about this installation?

I would start with high security locking wheel nuts for my van.

Adam


LOL !!! Never thought of that one. A visit to Halfords before a
visit to site, it is then. :-)

So is it a gypsy camp you are wanting to wire up? I have worked on a
few.

No point doing the job, they will only nick the cable...



--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

The Medway Handyman coughed up some electrons that declared:

I thought the railways were all 110v?



Trains (well, Bombardier Electrostars) generally have 13A 240V sockets for
the cleaning crew, so it makes sense if everything is the same voltage.

Cheers

Tim

"Owain" wrote in message
...
John Rumm wrote:
BigWallop wrote:
What exactly is the requirement "discrimination is allowed"?
No specification on the material used. If we think something is best
for
the particular situation, we are allowed to use it without
consultation or
change to previous agreement. Discrimination is allowed. I'm
surprised you
haven't had that on a works proposal before.
Ah, ok I was thinking of the technical meaning of the word - i.e.
containing trips to the locale of the fault etc.

Shouldn't that be "discretion" is allowed?

Owain


5 dictionary results for: Discrimination
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
dis?crim?i?na?tion /d??skr?m?'ne???n/ Show Spelled Pronunciation
[di-skrim-uh-ney-shuhn] Show IPA Pronunciation

-noun 1. an act or instance of discriminating.
2. treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or
against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which
that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit: racial and
religious intolerance and discrimination.
3. the power of making fine distinctions; discriminating judgment: She chose
the colors with great discrimination.
4. Archaic. something that serves to differentiate.

Origin:
1640-50; L discrimination- (s. of discriminatio) a distinguishing. See
discriminate, -ion



7 dictionary results for: discretion
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
dis?cre?tion /d?'skr???n/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [di-skresh-uhn] Show
IPA Pronunciation

-noun 1. the power or right to decide or act according to one's own
judgment; freedom of judgment or choice: It is entirely within my discretion
whether I will go or stay.
2. the quality of being discreet, esp. with reference to one's own actions
or speech; prudence or decorum: Throwing all discretion to the winds, he
blurted out the truth.
-Idiom3. at discretion, at one's option or pleasu They were allowed to
work overtime at discretion.

Origin:
1250-1300; ME discrecioun AF LL discretion- (s. of discretio). See
discreet, -ion


Yeah. I suppose both words could be used.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om...
ARWadsworth wrote:
"BigWallop" wrote in message
om...

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
om...

"BigWallop" wrote in message
om...
A caravan site needs 36 mains electricity hook up points (230Vac
double points on weather proof posts). All points must be capable
of supplying a minimum of 20 amps. The supply head to the site is
capable of giving all the demands set. Discrimination is allowed.
All points must comply with current IEE and CTEC standards.

How would I go about this installation?

I would start with high security locking wheel nuts for my van.

Adam


LOL !!! Never thought of that one. A visit to Halfords before a
visit to site, it is then. :-)

So is it a gypsy camp you are wanting to wire up? I have worked on a
few.

No point doing the job, they will only nick the cable...

They will not.

They need it to nick the electricity:-)

Adam