Puzzled over the claimed torque of impact drivers.

I have battery & mains Makita impact drivers, both claiming torque of 130 +
Nm. Both certainly punch in screws & coach bolts with ease, much better
than a drill driver.

Two examples lately where they failed to cut the mustard. Inserting 140mm x
6 mm multi monti's into brick (correct size pilot, clearance & depth of
hole) where the impact driver simply stopped leaving an inch of the fixing
protruding.

Another where a customer had used some 300mm timber connectors on railway
sleepers & his drill driver left several inches protruding. Tried the
impact driver which still wouldn't drive them completely flush.

In both cases I used a chuck adaptor in a mains SDS & drove the fixings
right in. No torque figures for the mains SDS, a 600w green Bosch with a
clutch, but I'm certain it wouldn't be 130 + Nm.

What's going on here? Is there 'torque' & 'torque'? Is it something to do
with Clarkson?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 23:24:33 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Puzzled over the claimed torque of impact drivers.

I get even more confused.

To me an impact briver is a thing about the size of a half pint milk
bottle with a bit on the front that you bash with a hammer to loosen
the screw/bolt attached.

In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
In both cases I used a chuck adaptor in a mains SDS & drove the fixings
right in. No torque figures for the mains SDS, a 600w green Bosch with
a clutch, but I'm certain it wouldn't be 130 + Nm.

I'd guess not. Assuming it's running at 150 rpm, to deliver 130 Nm of
torque would need 2.74 horsepower And there are 746 watts per horsepower -
but only with a 100% efficient motor. Your drill is likely a true 3/4 HP.

--
*A person who smiles in the face of adversity probably has a scapegoat *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
EricP wrote:
To me an impact briver is a thing about the size of a half pint milk
bottle with a bit on the front that you bash with a hammer to loosen
the screw/bolt attached.

Yes - we had this discussion when they first came out. Surprising how many
had never heard of 'your' type.

--
*Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The Medway Handyman wrote:

What's going on here? Is there 'torque' & 'torque'? Is it something to do
with Clarkson?

To quote from:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...driver#The_bad


"Finally there are some (relatively rare) situations where in spite of
their significantly higher torque, they will be unable to move a fixing
that a conventional drill driver will move. This only happens when the
fixing you are trying to turn is quite elastic and able to absorb the
full moment of the rotational impact, without the end already driven
into the wood turning. Moving this type of stuck fixing requires
continuous torque to "wind up" the fixing and absorb the backlash."

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

EricP wrote:
On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 23:24:33 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Puzzled over the claimed torque of impact drivers.

I get even more confused.

To me an impact briver is a thing about the size of a half pint milk
bottle with a bit on the front that you bash with a hammer to loosen
the screw/bolt attached.

See:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...Disambiguation


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
In both cases I used a chuck adaptor in a mains SDS & drove the
fixings right in. No torque figures for the mains SDS, a 600w green
Bosch with a clutch, but I'm certain it wouldn't be 130 + Nm.

I'd guess not. Assuming it's running at 150 rpm, to deliver 130 Nm of
torque would need 2.74 horsepower And there are 746 watts per
horsepower - but only with a 100% efficient motor. Your drill is
likely a true 3/4 HP.

Its 2,600 rpm if that makes a difference.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

John Rumm wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:

What's going on here? Is there 'torque' & 'torque'? Is it
something to do with Clarkson?

To quote from:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...driver#The_bad


"Finally there are some (relatively rare) situations where in spite of
their significantly higher torque, they will be unable to move a
fixing that a conventional drill driver will move. This only happens
when the fixing you are trying to turn is quite elastic and able to
absorb the full moment of the rotational impact, without the end
already driven into the wood turning. Moving this type of stuck
fixing requires continuous torque to "wind up" the fixing and absorb
the backlash."

Makes perfect sense. In both cases the fixings were very long - 140mm &
250mm, and of relatively small diameter - 6mm.

Two (relatively rare) situations in the same week :-)


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

"EricP" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 23:24:33 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Puzzled over the claimed torque of impact drivers.

I get even more confused.

To me an impact briver is a thing about the size of a half pint milk
bottle with a bit on the front that you bash with a hammer to loosen
the screw/bolt attached.

That's 'cos you are an Old Fart. I have one of those too and am, too, an OF.
The world has moved on, and impact driver means a nasty noisy thing that
tries to make up for lack of clout by rattling a lot (I don't have one of
those).


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

Bob Mannix wrote:
"EricP" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 23:24:33 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Puzzled over the claimed torque of impact drivers.

I get even more confused.

To me an impact briver is a thing about the size of a half pint milk
bottle with a bit on the front that you bash with a hammer to loosen
the screw/bolt attached.

That's 'cos you are an Old Fart. I have one of those too and am, too,
an OF. The world has moved on, and impact driver means a nasty noisy
thing that tries to make up for lack of clout by rattling a lot (I
don't have one of those).

Yerbut, one of them 'nasty noisy things that tries to make up for lack of
clout by rattling a lot' can put a 90mm coach bolt into a deck frame in 4
seconds, no pilot :-)

Why am I building a deck in November?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
I'd guess not. Assuming it's running at 150 rpm, to deliver 130 Nm of
torque would need 2.74 horsepower And there are 746 watts per
horsepower - but only with a 100% efficient motor. Your drill is
likely a true 3/4 HP.

Its 2,600 rpm if that makes a difference.

That's a hell of a lick for an SDS. Think the max on my DeWalt is more
like 1000.

To produce 130Nm of torque at 2,600 rpm you're looking at a small car
engine. ;-)

--
*60-year-old, one owner - needs parts, make offer

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 5 Nov, 23:24, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

I have battery & mains Makita impact drivers, both claiming torque of 130 +
Nm. *Both certainly punch in screws & coach bolts with ease, much better
than a drill driver.

Impact drivers don't have "torque" as a useful figure, because they're
dynamic rather than a static torque.

A torque wrench (i.e. simple lever and weight) applies a constant
static torque, a petrol engine might vary its torque a little as it
rotates between strokes (esp. 2-strokes). An impact driver though
delivers all of its torque in a single blow (or series of separate
blows) and the actual torque at a moment in time varies through a
curve that increases sharply with impact then tapers off. It's the
difference between pushing a hammer head against a nail, or swinging
it. The total energy might be the same, but delivering it over a short
time interval gives a far higher peak figure for force (or torque).
You still care mostly about the impulse delivered (i.e. the integral)
rather than the peak force, but the "gimmick" of an impact driver is
that this short pulse allows high instant forces to help unstick
things.

Really though, to measure the "grunt" of an impact driver you have to
measure the integral of this torque over time (i.e. the area under the
curve). Even then there's likely to need to be some scaling for
perfect realism, as higher torque is "better" in a non-linear fashion
for unsticking rusted bolts (maybe consider the integral of the square
of the torque?). The integral though is likely to be closely
proportional to motor power and battery power consumption, although
obviously reduced by the efficiency rating.

If you're in marketing though, the ability to lie through numbers
comes in. Rather than taking a sensible "grunt" rating, the temptation
is to find any number that's best on your brand regardless of its true
value. Peak instantaneous torque is an obvious candidate. Now if this
is _too_ high, it's likely to be "real" and "measureable" but it also
wastes too much power and integral grunt in short-term bending of the
socket and drive etc., rather than anything you can use.

Andy Dingley wrote:

If you're in marketing though, the ability to lie through numbers
comes in. Rather than taking a sensible "grunt" rating, the temptation
is to find any number that's best on your brand regardless of its true
value. Peak instantaneous torque is an obvious candidate. Now if this

Agreed, however there is more to it than just total "grunt" - it also
matters how its delivered. Using your own example, hitting a nail with a
hammer will be far more effective than simply doing the same amount of
mechanical work pushing it against the nail.

is _too_ high, it's likely to be "real" and "measureable" but it also
wastes too much power and integral grunt in short-term bending of the
socket and drive etc., rather than anything you can use.

Indeed, and you can see this in the circumstance that Dave mentioned
above - an elastic fastening that can simply absorb the rotational
impact and then spring back, without actually turning.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om...
Puzzled over the claimed torque of impact drivers.

I have battery & mains Makita impact drivers, both claiming torque of 130
+ Nm. Both certainly punch in screws & coach bolts with ease, much better
than a drill driver.

Two examples lately where they failed to cut the mustard. Inserting 140mm
x 6 mm multi monti's into brick (correct size pilot, clearance & depth of
hole) where the impact driver simply stopped leaving an inch of the fixing
protruding.

Another where a customer had used some 300mm timber connectors on railway
sleepers & his drill driver left several inches protruding. Tried the
impact driver which still wouldn't drive them completely flush.

Remove the screw and dip in grease. Then use grease on them all after.
With an Impact Driver just let the hammer work. The screw may not be turning
but the hammer is still smacking the screw. I have had it where the screw
then starts to to turn after I kept the driver on for a minute or so.

SDS's on low speed are great and will drive almost anything in.

On 6 Nov, 12:27, John Rumm wrote:

Agreed, however there is more to it than just total "grunt"

I was using "grunt" to indicate an exactly proportional measure of
benefit. How you map measurable torque and time onto this invented
"grunt" is quite another question 8-)

(According to Russell Crowe though, "grunt" is measured in feet)

On 6 Nov, 13:37, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:

SDS's on low speed are great and will drive almost anything in.

Why does an SDS mechanism have anything to offer at all for rotation?

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
SDS's on low speed are great and will drive almost anything in.

That applies to any mains drill that can go slow enough. Nothing to do
with it being SDS.

--
*I get enough exercise just pushing my luck.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Nov 6, 4:14*am, John Rumm wrote:
EricP wrote:
On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 23:24:33 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Puzzled over the claimed torque of impact drivers.

I get even more confused.

To me an impact briver is a thing about the size of a half pint milk
bottle with a bit on the front that you bash with a hammer to loosen
the screw/bolt attached.

See:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...Disambiguation


one thing the FAQ does not point out (unless I missed it) is that an
impact driver can deliver a higher torque to the bolt (or whatever)
than could normally be sustained by the operatives wrist. this is
becuase of the inertia of the tool; the operative feels the (lower)
average torque rather than the peak torque.

Robert

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
I'd guess not. Assuming it's running at 150 rpm, to deliver 130 Nm
of torque would need 2.74 horsepower And there are 746 watts per
horsepower - but only with a 100% efficient motor. Your drill is
likely a true 3/4 HP.

Its 2,600 rpm if that makes a difference.

That's a hell of a lick for an SDS. Think the max on my DeWalt is more
like 1000.

Sorry, I meant the impact driver was 2,600 rpm.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
SDS's on low speed are great and will drive almost anything in.

That applies to any mains drill that can go slow enough. Nothing to do
with it being SDS.

Many SDS drills have their gearing set such that their top speed is in
the 900 - 1200 rpm range. That tends to be somewhat lower than ordinary
single speed drills, and closer to the low gear on a two speed gearbox
drill.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
SDS's on low speed are great and will drive almost anything in.

That applies to any mains drill that can go slow enough. Nothing to do
with it being SDS.

Many SDS drills have their gearing set such that their top speed is in
the 900 - 1200 rpm range. That tends to be somewhat lower than ordinary
single speed drills, and closer to the low gear on a two speed gearbox
drill.

Indeed. Of course 1000 rpm is too fast for screwdriving. But most SDS are
vari-speed?

--
*If you think this van is dirty, you should try having sex with the driver*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote in message
...
In article ,
EricP wrote:
To me an impact briver is a thing about the size of a half pint milk
bottle with a bit on the front that you bash with a hammer to loosen
the screw/bolt attached.

Yes - we had this discussion when they first came out. Surprising how many
had never heard of 'your' type.


Funny I don't remember anyone not knowing what a purely mechanical impact
driver was
Just lots of confused people who had never seen or used a cordless impact
driver.
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....175db37f55d7ba

they now seem to be a the latest DIY must have tool, have you bought one yet
or

"Nor do I feel the need for one. I've never had problems driving in any
type of screw into anything. For pro use in a specialised field they may
well be wonderful. But this is a DIY group, and there's many tools I'd
want long before one of those."


-

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
SDS's on low speed are great and will drive almost anything in.
That applies to any mains drill that can go slow enough. Nothing to do
with it being SDS.

Many SDS drills have their gearing set such that their top speed is in
the 900 - 1200 rpm range. That tends to be somewhat lower than ordinary
single speed drills, and closer to the low gear on a two speed gearbox
drill.

Indeed. Of course 1000 rpm is too fast for screwdriving. But most SDS are
vari-speed?

The good ones are, and a fair proportion of the cheapies. Some are still
single speed though. 1000rpm is not that fast for screw driving in some
circumstances...

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Mark wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote in message
...
In article ,
EricP wrote:
To me an impact briver is a thing about the size of a half pint milk
bottle with a bit on the front that you bash with a hammer to loosen
the screw/bolt attached.

Yes - we had this discussion when they first came out. Surprising
how many had never heard of 'your' type.


Funny I don't remember anyone not knowing what a purely mechanical
impact driver was
Just lots of confused people who had never seen or used a cordless
impact driver.
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....175db37f55d7ba

they now seem to be a the latest DIY must have tool, have you bought
one yet or

"Nor do I feel the need for one. I've never had problems driving in
any type of screw into anything. For pro use in a specialised field
they may well be wonderful. But this is a DIY group, and there's many
tools I'd
want long before one of those."

I think thats spot on in general Mark, but a DIY guy planning on building a
deck would find one extreemly useful. And the small Makita TD020E is ideal
for general DIY use.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Fri, 07 Nov 2008 00:41:29 GMT, "Mark" wrote:


Dave Plowman (News) wrote in message
...
In article ,
EricP wrote:
To me an impact briver is a thing about the size of a half pint milk
bottle with a bit on the front that you bash with a hammer to loosen
the screw/bolt attached.

Yes - we had this discussion when they first came out. Surprising how many
had never heard of 'your' type.


Funny I don't remember anyone not knowing what a purely mechanical impact
driver was
Just lots of confused people who had never seen or used a cordless impact
driver.
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....175db37f55d7ba

they now seem to be a the latest DIY must have tool, have you bought one yet
or

"Nor do I feel the need for one. I've never had problems driving in any
type of screw into anything. For pro use in a specialised field they may
well be wonderful. But this is a DIY group, and there's many tools I'd
want long before one of those."

This is the only impact driver a DIYer should usually need.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...erWithBits.png

Unless he's rolling in money and buys stuff to use once a year for
half an hour.

In article , Mark
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote in message
...
In article ,
EricP wrote:
To me an impact briver is a thing about the size of a half pint milk
bottle with a bit on the front that you bash with a hammer to loosen
the screw/bolt attached.

Yes - we had this discussion when they first came out. Surprising how
many had never heard of 'your' type.


Funny I don't remember anyone not knowing what a purely mechanical
impact driver was Just lots of confused people who had never seen or
used a cordless impact driver.
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....175db37f55d7ba

Not surprising when they were new. Not everyone is a dribble scouring the
net for the latest tools.

they now seem to be a the latest DIY must have tool, have you bought one
yet or

"Nor do I feel the need for one. I've never had problems driving in
any type of screw into anything. For pro use in a specialised field they
may well be wonderful. But this is a DIY group, and there's many tools
I'd want long before one of those."

Can't see anything wrong with that statement. Can you? Or do you feel it's
the first power tool to buy?

--
*Be more or less specific *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Alang wrote:
On Fri, 07 Nov 2008 00:41:29 GMT, "Mark" wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote in message
...
In article ,
EricP wrote:
To me an impact briver is a thing about the size of a half pint milk
bottle with a bit on the front that you bash with a hammer to loosen
the screw/bolt attached.
Yes - we had this discussion when they first came out. Surprising how many
had never heard of 'your' type.

Funny I don't remember anyone not knowing what a purely mechanical impact
driver was
Just lots of confused people who had never seen or used a cordless impact
driver.
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....175db37f55d7ba

they now seem to be a the latest DIY must have tool, have you bought one yet
or

"Nor do I feel the need for one. I've never had problems driving in any
type of screw into anything. For pro use in a specialised field they may
well be wonderful. But this is a DIY group, and there's many tools I'd
want long before one of those."

This is the only impact driver a DIYer should usually need.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...erWithBits.png

Unless he's rolling in money and buys stuff to use once a year for
half an hour.

I find I use my Mak TD020 very, very frequently. (Though I couldn't
justify a heavy-duty impact driver.)

I can't think when last I would have wanted the old manual impact driver
you linked to. On a mechanical device like cars, maybe. For most other
DIY, no thanks.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

"Mark" wrote in message
...

Dave Plowman (News) wrote in message
...
In article ,
EricP wrote:
To me an impact briver is a thing about the size of a half pint milk
bottle with a bit on the front that you bash with a hammer to loosen
the screw/bolt attached.

Yes - we had this discussion when they first came out. Surprising how
many
had never heard of 'your' type.


Funny I don't remember anyone not knowing what a purely mechanical impact
driver was
Just lots of confused people who had never seen or used a cordless impact
driver.
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....175db37f55d7ba

In that link, the Chav making a typical fool of himself. I was the first
too mention Impact Drivers on this group. Only about two others had heard
of them and one actually used one of them. No one knew what they were
thinking you smacked it with a hammer.

they now seem to be a the latest DIY must
have tool, have you bought one yet
or

"Nor do I feel the need for one. I've never had problems driving in any
type of screw into anything. For pro use in a specialised field they may
well be wonderful. But this is a DIY group, and there's many tools I'd
want long before one of those."

DIY or not they are superb. If your drill/driver packs up then buy one, as
the price has dropped substantially. They can be used as a drill too. Using
hex shaft drill bits. There are also duel drill-driver/Impact Driver models.

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On 6 Nov, 13:37, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:

SDS's on low speed are great and will drive almost anything in.

Why does an SDS mechanism have anything to offer at all for rotation?

SDS drills have high torque low speed. Nothing to do with mechanism.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
SDS's on low speed are great and will drive almost anything in.

That applies to any mains drill that can go slow enough. Nothing to do
with it being SDS.

Many SDS drills have their gearing set such that their top speed is in the
900 - 1200 rpm range. That tends to be somewhat lower than ordinary single
speed drills, and closer to the low gear on a two speed gearbox drill.

I drove in 6" screws effortlessly with an SDS - with SDS turned "off". I
used grease on them so as not to snap off the heads.

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"Mark" wrote in message
...

Dave Plowman (News) wrote in message
...
In article ,
EricP wrote:
To me an impact briver is a thing about the size of a half pint milk
bottle with a bit on the front that you bash with a hammer to loosen
the screw/bolt attached.

Yes - we had this discussion when they first came out. Surprising how
many
had never heard of 'your' type.


Funny I don't remember anyone not knowing what a purely mechanical impact
driver was
Just lots of confused people who had never seen or used a cordless impact
driver.
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....175db37f55d7ba

In that link, the Chav making a typical fool of himself. I was the first
too mention Impact Drivers on this group. Only about two others had heard
of them and one actually used one of them. No one knew what they were
thinking you smacked it with a hammer.

they now seem to be a the latest DIY must
have tool, have you bought one yet
or

"Nor do I feel the need for one. I've never had problems driving in any
type of screw into anything. For pro use in a specialised field they may
well be wonderful. But this is a DIY group, and there's many tools I'd
want long before one of those."

DIY or not they are superb. If your drill/driver packs up then buy one,
as the price has dropped substantially. They can be used as a drill too.
Using hex shaft drill bits. There are also duel drill-driver/Impact Driver
models.

Impact drivers are short, so short with short hex drill bits they can be
used between joists to drill holes for pipes and wires.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Mark
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote in message
...
In article ,
EricP wrote:
To me an impact briver is a thing about the size of a half pint milk
bottle with a bit on the front that you bash with a hammer to loosen
the screw/bolt attached.
Yes - we had this discussion when they first came out. Surprising how
many had never heard of 'your' type.


Funny I don't remember anyone not knowing what a purely mechanical
impact driver was Just lots of confused people who had never seen or
used a cordless impact driver.
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....175db37f55d7ba

Not surprising when they were new. Not everyone is a dribble scouring the
net for the latest tools.

they now seem to be a the latest DIY must have tool, have you bought one
yet or

"Nor do I feel the need for one. I've never had problems driving in
any type of screw into anything. For pro use in a specialised field they
may well be wonderful. But this is a DIY group, and there's many tools
I'd want long before one of those."

Can't see anything wrong with that statement. Can you? Or do you feel it's
the first power tool to buy?


Actually, if you are doing something like furnishing a house with Ikea
stuff, it (a TD020) might well be the best 'my first power tool'! Most
especially if you have weak arms/wrists/hands (like my partner has, due
to illness) - and any conventional power driver is too darned heavy and
a manual driver requires unachievable torque.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On 6 Nov, 13:37, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:

SDS's on low speed are great and will drive almost anything in.

Why does an SDS mechanism have anything to offer at all for rotation?

SDS drills have high torque low speed. Nothing to do with mechanism.

I have a high torque drill and it is not an SDS chuck and it doesn't have a
hammer function.
It will drill 32 mm in steel though.

SDS is a chuck type not a drill type.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article , Mark
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote in message
...
In article ,
EricP wrote:
To me an impact briver is a thing about the size of a half pint milk
bottle with a bit on the front that you bash with a hammer to loosen
the screw/bolt attached.

Yes - we had this discussion when they first came out. Surprising how
many had never heard of 'your' type.


Funny I don't remember anyone not knowing what a purely mechanical
impact driver was Just lots of confused people who had never seen or
used a cordless impact driver.
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....175db37f55d7ba

Not surprising when they were new.

...and this one didn't know what the hell an Impact Driver was!!!! I just
read some of this thread Mark linked to. It was funny. They all never knew
what an Impact Driver was and then when it was a clear there was another
tool that was "new to them", they all backtracked and dug big holes for
themselves. Funny indeed!!!! :-) :-) The uk.d-i-y Lunatic Association was
in full swing. Mark and myself had to explain to them, like children,what
an Impact Driver was. And they still would not believe it. :-) :-)

Classic indeed!!!!

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On 6 Nov, 13:37, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:

SDS's on low speed are great and will drive almost anything in.

Why does an SDS mechanism have anything to offer at all for rotation?

SDS drills have high torque low speed. Nothing to do with mechanism.

I have a high torque drill and it is not an SDS chuck and it doesn't have
a hammer function.
It will drill 32 mm in steel though.

They are available.

SDS is a chuck type not a drill type.

Er, no. It is a drill type, which also incorporates a chuck type too, which
is only specific to the drill type. I used a keyed chuck into the SDS
chuck.

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
In that link, the Chav making a typical fool of himself. I was the
first too mention Impact Drivers on this group.

Indeed. Must be nice to have so much spare time to look at catalogues. Was
the counter quiet again?

Only about two others had heard of them and one actually used one of
them. No one knew what they were thinking you smacked it with a hammer.

And you obviously had never heard of an impact driver. Which have been
around for many years - long before any cordless tool.

they now seem to be a the latest DIY must
have tool, have you bought one yet
or

"Nor do I feel the need for one. I've never had problems driving in
any type of screw into anything. For pro use in a specialised field
they may well be wonderful. But this is a DIY group, and there's many
tools I'd want long before one of those."

DIY or not they are superb. If your drill/driver packs up then buy one,
as the price has dropped substantially. They can be used as a drill
too. Using hex shaft drill bits. There are also duel
drill-driver/Impact Driver models.

For most a standard drill is of far more use if you can only afford one.
Hex bits are very expensive - and inaccurate.

--
*Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
..and this one didn't know what the hell an Impact Driver was!!!! I
just read some of this thread Mark linked to. It was funny. They all
never knew what an Impact Driver was and then when it was a clear there
was another tool that was "new to them", they all backtracked and dug
big holes for themselves. Funny indeed!!!! :-) :-) The uk.d-i-y
Lunatic Association was in full swing. Mark and myself had to explain
to them, like children,what an Impact Driver was. And they still would
not believe it. :-) :-)

Most had a good laugh at the self styled expert on everything - you - had
obviously never heard of an impact driver before the name was stolen for
the drill type. Perhaps you work for Bosch - they call some of their
hammer drills impact types.

--
*Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
SDS is a chuck type not a drill type.

Er, no. It is a drill type, which also incorporates a chuck type too,
which is only specific to the drill type. I used a keyed chuck into
the SDS chuck.

Is there no end to your ignorance? SDS is *not* a drill type. I have an
SDS jigsaw.

It refers to a keyless way of holding a bit or blade.

--
*A bartender is just a pharmacist with a limited inventory.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
..and this one didn't know what the hell an Impact Driver was!!!! I
just read some of this thread Mark linked to. It was funny. They all
never knew what an Impact Driver was and then when it was a clear there
was another tool that was "new to them", they all backtracked and dug
big holes for themselves. Funny indeed!!!! :-) :-) The uk.d-i-y
Lunatic Association was in full swing. Mark and myself had to explain
to them, like children,what an Impact Driver was. And they still would
not believe it. :-) :-)

Most

ROLFMAO!!!!!! The know-it-alls didn't know what an Impact Driver was.
Hilarious!

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
In that link, the Chav making a typical fool of himself. I was the
first too mention Impact Drivers on this group.

Indeed.

Please eff off as you are a complete plantpot. ROFLMAO!