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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Talk the torque.
Puzzled over the claimed torque of impact drivers.
I have battery & mains Makita impact drivers, both claiming torque of 130 + Nm. Both certainly punch in screws & coach bolts with ease, much better than a drill driver. Two examples lately where they failed to cut the mustard. Inserting 140mm x 6 mm multi monti's into brick (correct size pilot, clearance & depth of hole) where the impact driver simply stopped leaving an inch of the fixing protruding. Another where a customer had used some 300mm timber connectors on railway sleepers & his drill driver left several inches protruding. Tried the impact driver which still wouldn't drive them completely flush. In both cases I used a chuck adaptor in a mains SDS & drove the fixings right in. No torque figures for the mains SDS, a 600w green Bosch with a clutch, but I'm certain it wouldn't be 130 + Nm. What's going on here? Is there 'torque' & 'torque'? Is it something to do with Clarkson? -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
#2
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Talk the torque.
On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 23:24:33 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote: Puzzled over the claimed torque of impact drivers. I get even more confused. To me an impact briver is a thing about the size of a half pint milk bottle with a bit on the front that you bash with a hammer to loosen the screw/bolt attached. |
#3
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Talk the torque.
EricP wrote:
On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 23:24:33 GMT, "The Medway Handyman" wrote: Puzzled over the claimed torque of impact drivers. I get even more confused. To me an impact briver is a thing about the size of a half pint milk bottle with a bit on the front that you bash with a hammer to loosen the screw/bolt attached. See: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...Disambiguation -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#4
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Talk the torque.
On Nov 6, 4:14*am, John Rumm wrote:
EricP wrote: On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 23:24:33 GMT, "The Medway Handyman" wrote: Puzzled over the claimed torque of impact drivers. I get even more confused. To me an impact briver is a thing about the size of a half pint milk bottle with a bit on the front that you bash with a hammer to loosen the screw/bolt attached. See: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...Disambiguation one thing the FAQ does not point out (unless I missed it) is that an impact driver can deliver a higher torque to the bolt (or whatever) than could normally be sustained by the operatives wrist. this is becuase of the inertia of the tool; the operative feels the (lower) average torque rather than the peak torque. Robert |
#5
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Talk the torque.
"EricP" wrote in message
... On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 23:24:33 GMT, "The Medway Handyman" wrote: Puzzled over the claimed torque of impact drivers. I get even more confused. To me an impact briver is a thing about the size of a half pint milk bottle with a bit on the front that you bash with a hammer to loosen the screw/bolt attached. That's 'cos you are an Old Fart. I have one of those too and am, too, an OF. The world has moved on, and impact driver means a nasty noisy thing that tries to make up for lack of clout by rattling a lot (I don't have one of those). -- Bob Mannix (anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not) |
#6
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Talk the torque.
Bob Mannix wrote:
"EricP" wrote in message ... On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 23:24:33 GMT, "The Medway Handyman" wrote: Puzzled over the claimed torque of impact drivers. I get even more confused. To me an impact briver is a thing about the size of a half pint milk bottle with a bit on the front that you bash with a hammer to loosen the screw/bolt attached. That's 'cos you are an Old Fart. I have one of those too and am, too, an OF. The world has moved on, and impact driver means a nasty noisy thing that tries to make up for lack of clout by rattling a lot (I don't have one of those). Yerbut, one of them 'nasty noisy things that tries to make up for lack of clout by rattling a lot' can put a 90mm coach bolt into a deck frame in 4 seconds, no pilot :-) Why am I building a deck in November? -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
#7
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Talk the torque.
In article ,
EricP wrote: To me an impact briver is a thing about the size of a half pint milk bottle with a bit on the front that you bash with a hammer to loosen the screw/bolt attached. Yes - we had this discussion when they first came out. Surprising how many had never heard of 'your' type. -- *Atheism is a non-prophet organization. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#8
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Talk the torque.
Dave Plowman (News) wrote in message ... In article , EricP wrote: To me an impact briver is a thing about the size of a half pint milk bottle with a bit on the front that you bash with a hammer to loosen the screw/bolt attached. Yes - we had this discussion when they first came out. Surprising how many had never heard of 'your' type. Funny I don't remember anyone not knowing what a purely mechanical impact driver was Just lots of confused people who had never seen or used a cordless impact driver. http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....175db37f55d7ba they now seem to be a the latest DIY must have tool, have you bought one yet or "Nor do I feel the need for one. I've never had problems driving in any type of screw into anything. For pro use in a specialised field they may well be wonderful. But this is a DIY group, and there's many tools I'd want long before one of those." - |
#9
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Talk the torque.
Mark wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote in message ... In article , EricP wrote: To me an impact briver is a thing about the size of a half pint milk bottle with a bit on the front that you bash with a hammer to loosen the screw/bolt attached. Yes - we had this discussion when they first came out. Surprising how many had never heard of 'your' type. Funny I don't remember anyone not knowing what a purely mechanical impact driver was Just lots of confused people who had never seen or used a cordless impact driver. http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....175db37f55d7ba they now seem to be a the latest DIY must have tool, have you bought one yet or "Nor do I feel the need for one. I've never had problems driving in any type of screw into anything. For pro use in a specialised field they may well be wonderful. But this is a DIY group, and there's many tools I'd want long before one of those." I think thats spot on in general Mark, but a DIY guy planning on building a deck would find one extreemly useful. And the small Makita TD020E is ideal for general DIY use. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
#10
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Talk the torque.
On Fri, 07 Nov 2008 00:41:29 GMT, "Mark" wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote in message ... In article , EricP wrote: To me an impact briver is a thing about the size of a half pint milk bottle with a bit on the front that you bash with a hammer to loosen the screw/bolt attached. Yes - we had this discussion when they first came out. Surprising how many had never heard of 'your' type. Funny I don't remember anyone not knowing what a purely mechanical impact driver was Just lots of confused people who had never seen or used a cordless impact driver. http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....175db37f55d7ba they now seem to be a the latest DIY must have tool, have you bought one yet or "Nor do I feel the need for one. I've never had problems driving in any type of screw into anything. For pro use in a specialised field they may well be wonderful. But this is a DIY group, and there's many tools I'd want long before one of those." This is the only impact driver a DIYer should usually need. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...erWithBits.png Unless he's rolling in money and buys stuff to use once a year for half an hour. |
#11
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Talk the torque.
Alang wrote:
On Fri, 07 Nov 2008 00:41:29 GMT, "Mark" wrote: Dave Plowman (News) wrote in message ... In article , EricP wrote: To me an impact briver is a thing about the size of a half pint milk bottle with a bit on the front that you bash with a hammer to loosen the screw/bolt attached. Yes - we had this discussion when they first came out. Surprising how many had never heard of 'your' type. Funny I don't remember anyone not knowing what a purely mechanical impact driver was Just lots of confused people who had never seen or used a cordless impact driver. http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....175db37f55d7ba they now seem to be a the latest DIY must have tool, have you bought one yet or "Nor do I feel the need for one. I've never had problems driving in any type of screw into anything. For pro use in a specialised field they may well be wonderful. But this is a DIY group, and there's many tools I'd want long before one of those." This is the only impact driver a DIYer should usually need. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...erWithBits.png Unless he's rolling in money and buys stuff to use once a year for half an hour. I find I use my Mak TD020 very, very frequently. (Though I couldn't justify a heavy-duty impact driver.) I can't think when last I would have wanted the old manual impact driver you linked to. On a mechanical device like cars, maybe. For most other DIY, no thanks. -- Rod Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious onset. Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed. www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org |
#12
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Talk the torque.
Alang wrote:
This is the only impact driver a DIYer should usually need. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...erWithBits.png Unless he's rolling in money and buys stuff to use once a year for half an hour. While I would agree, that armed with a suitable drill driver you can survive without a cordless impact driver well enough for many jobs, I have never found the manual type that useful. Last time I used mine was to photograph it for the wiki, and possibly 15 years prior to that to undo a stuck screw in a gate hinge. In fact the best use I ever found for the manual driver, was when I discovered that you could stick the hex bits that came with it into the chuck of the old B&D and whiz big screws in with it! -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#13
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Talk the torque.
In article , Mark
wrote: Dave Plowman (News) wrote in message ... In article , EricP wrote: To me an impact briver is a thing about the size of a half pint milk bottle with a bit on the front that you bash with a hammer to loosen the screw/bolt attached. Yes - we had this discussion when they first came out. Surprising how many had never heard of 'your' type. Funny I don't remember anyone not knowing what a purely mechanical impact driver was Just lots of confused people who had never seen or used a cordless impact driver. http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....175db37f55d7ba Not surprising when they were new. Not everyone is a dribble scouring the net for the latest tools. they now seem to be a the latest DIY must have tool, have you bought one yet or "Nor do I feel the need for one. I've never had problems driving in any type of screw into anything. For pro use in a specialised field they may well be wonderful. But this is a DIY group, and there's many tools I'd want long before one of those." Can't see anything wrong with that statement. Can you? Or do you feel it's the first power tool to buy? -- *Be more or less specific * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#14
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Talk the torque.
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Mark wrote: Dave Plowman (News) wrote in message ... In article , EricP wrote: To me an impact briver is a thing about the size of a half pint milk bottle with a bit on the front that you bash with a hammer to loosen the screw/bolt attached. Yes - we had this discussion when they first came out. Surprising how many had never heard of 'your' type. Funny I don't remember anyone not knowing what a purely mechanical impact driver was Just lots of confused people who had never seen or used a cordless impact driver. http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....175db37f55d7ba Not surprising when they were new. Not everyone is a dribble scouring the net for the latest tools. they now seem to be a the latest DIY must have tool, have you bought one yet or "Nor do I feel the need for one. I've never had problems driving in any type of screw into anything. For pro use in a specialised field they may well be wonderful. But this is a DIY group, and there's many tools I'd want long before one of those." Can't see anything wrong with that statement. Can you? Or do you feel it's the first power tool to buy? Actually, if you are doing something like furnishing a house with Ikea stuff, it (a TD020) might well be the best 'my first power tool'! Most especially if you have weak arms/wrists/hands (like my partner has, due to illness) - and any conventional power driver is too darned heavy and a manual driver requires unachievable torque. -- Rod Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious onset. Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed. www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org |
#15
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Talk the torque.
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Mark wrote: Dave Plowman (News) wrote in message ... In article , EricP wrote: To me an impact briver is a thing about the size of a half pint milk bottle with a bit on the front that you bash with a hammer to loosen the screw/bolt attached. Yes - we had this discussion when they first came out. Surprising how many had never heard of 'your' type. Funny I don't remember anyone not knowing what a purely mechanical impact driver was Just lots of confused people who had never seen or used a cordless impact driver. http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....175db37f55d7ba Not surprising when they were new. ...and this one didn't know what the hell an Impact Driver was!!!! I just read some of this thread Mark linked to. It was funny. They all never knew what an Impact Driver was and then when it was a clear there was another tool that was "new to them", they all backtracked and dug big holes for themselves. Funny indeed!!!! :-) :-) The uk.d-i-y Lunatic Association was in full swing. Mark and myself had to explain to them, like children,what an Impact Driver was. And they still would not believe it. :-) :-) Classic indeed!!!! |
#16
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Talk the torque.
Dave Plowman (News) wrote in message ... they now seem to be a the latest DIY must have tool, have you bought one yet or "Nor do I feel the need for one. I've never had problems driving in any type of screw into anything. Can't see anything wrong with that statement. Can you? Depends on whether you have since realised how useful a cordless impact driver is, either large or small, and bought one. - |
#17
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Talk the torque.
"Mark" wrote in message ... Dave Plowman (News) wrote in message ... In article , EricP wrote: To me an impact briver is a thing about the size of a half pint milk bottle with a bit on the front that you bash with a hammer to loosen the screw/bolt attached. Yes - we had this discussion when they first came out. Surprising how many had never heard of 'your' type. Funny I don't remember anyone not knowing what a purely mechanical impact driver was Just lots of confused people who had never seen or used a cordless impact driver. http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....175db37f55d7ba In that link, the Chav making a typical fool of himself. I was the first too mention Impact Drivers on this group. Only about two others had heard of them and one actually used one of them. No one knew what they were thinking you smacked it with a hammer. they now seem to be a the latest DIY must have tool, have you bought one yet or "Nor do I feel the need for one. I've never had problems driving in any type of screw into anything. For pro use in a specialised field they may well be wonderful. But this is a DIY group, and there's many tools I'd want long before one of those." DIY or not they are superb. If your drill/driver packs up then buy one, as the price has dropped substantially. They can be used as a drill too. Using hex shaft drill bits. There are also duel drill-driver/Impact Driver models. |
#18
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Talk the torque.
"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message ... "Mark" wrote in message ... Dave Plowman (News) wrote in message ... In article , EricP wrote: To me an impact briver is a thing about the size of a half pint milk bottle with a bit on the front that you bash with a hammer to loosen the screw/bolt attached. Yes - we had this discussion when they first came out. Surprising how many had never heard of 'your' type. Funny I don't remember anyone not knowing what a purely mechanical impact driver was Just lots of confused people who had never seen or used a cordless impact driver. http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....175db37f55d7ba In that link, the Chav making a typical fool of himself. I was the first too mention Impact Drivers on this group. Only about two others had heard of them and one actually used one of them. No one knew what they were thinking you smacked it with a hammer. they now seem to be a the latest DIY must have tool, have you bought one yet or "Nor do I feel the need for one. I've never had problems driving in any type of screw into anything. For pro use in a specialised field they may well be wonderful. But this is a DIY group, and there's many tools I'd want long before one of those." DIY or not they are superb. If your drill/driver packs up then buy one, as the price has dropped substantially. They can be used as a drill too. Using hex shaft drill bits. There are also duel drill-driver/Impact Driver models. Impact drivers are short, so short with short hex drill bits they can be used between joists to drill holes for pipes and wires. |
#19
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Talk the torque.
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote: In that link, the Chav making a typical fool of himself. I was the first too mention Impact Drivers on this group. Indeed. Must be nice to have so much spare time to look at catalogues. Was the counter quiet again? Only about two others had heard of them and one actually used one of them. No one knew what they were thinking you smacked it with a hammer. And you obviously had never heard of an impact driver. Which have been around for many years - long before any cordless tool. they now seem to be a the latest DIY must have tool, have you bought one yet or "Nor do I feel the need for one. I've never had problems driving in any type of screw into anything. For pro use in a specialised field they may well be wonderful. But this is a DIY group, and there's many tools I'd want long before one of those." DIY or not they are superb. If your drill/driver packs up then buy one, as the price has dropped substantially. They can be used as a drill too. Using hex shaft drill bits. There are also duel drill-driver/Impact Driver models. For most a standard drill is of far more use if you can only afford one. Hex bits are very expensive - and inaccurate. -- *Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#20
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Talk the torque.
Doctor Drivel wrote:
SNIP DIY or not they are superb. If your drill/driver packs up then buy one, as the price has dropped substantially. They can be used as a drill too. Using hex shaft drill bits. Are you completely mad? -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
#21
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Talk the torque.
Doctor Drivel wrote:
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....175db37f55d7ba In that link, the Chav making a typical fool of himself. I was the first too mention Impact Drivers on this group. Only about two others had heard of them and one actually used one of them. No one knew what they were thinking you smacked it with a hammer. I stand by what I said then: Typically available ones at the time tended to be heavier square drive pneumatic ones. A decent 18V drill driver will still drive a 6" screw Variations on the tool had been about for ages, and the electric cordless variety was a more recent development at the time. If you are in a workshop with compressed air available, then small pneumatic ones are cheap and can do a reasonable job. In fact I note you said: "When the price drops and the cheaper DIY makes start making them, then the price will drop". If one ignores the tautology of "When the price drops", "then the price will drop", it is interesting to note that the cheaper DIY makes have still not started making them in any noticeable quantity even three years on. DIY or not they are superb. If your drill/driver packs up then buy one, as the price has dropped substantially. They can be used as a drill too. Using hex shaft drill bits. There are also duel drill-driver/Impact Driver models. The single function drivers can be used as a drill, but they still are at best a poor substitute (no chuck, no hammer action, no torque limiter, less resolution on the speed control, poorer bit centring). Never tried one of the multi function ones. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#22
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Talk the torque.
In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote: In both cases I used a chuck adaptor in a mains SDS & drove the fixings right in. No torque figures for the mains SDS, a 600w green Bosch with a clutch, but I'm certain it wouldn't be 130 + Nm. I'd guess not. Assuming it's running at 150 rpm, to deliver 130 Nm of torque would need 2.74 horsepower And there are 746 watts per horsepower - but only with a 100% efficient motor. Your drill is likely a true 3/4 HP. -- *A person who smiles in the face of adversity probably has a scapegoat * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#23
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Talk the torque.
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , The Medway Handyman wrote: In both cases I used a chuck adaptor in a mains SDS & drove the fixings right in. No torque figures for the mains SDS, a 600w green Bosch with a clutch, but I'm certain it wouldn't be 130 + Nm. I'd guess not. Assuming it's running at 150 rpm, to deliver 130 Nm of torque would need 2.74 horsepower And there are 746 watts per horsepower - but only with a 100% efficient motor. Your drill is likely a true 3/4 HP. Its 2,600 rpm if that makes a difference. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
#24
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Talk the torque.
In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote: I'd guess not. Assuming it's running at 150 rpm, to deliver 130 Nm of torque would need 2.74 horsepower And there are 746 watts per horsepower - but only with a 100% efficient motor. Your drill is likely a true 3/4 HP. Its 2,600 rpm if that makes a difference. That's a hell of a lick for an SDS. Think the max on my DeWalt is more like 1000. To produce 130Nm of torque at 2,600 rpm you're looking at a small car engine. ;-) -- *60-year-old, one owner - needs parts, make offer Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#25
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Talk the torque.
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , The Medway Handyman wrote: I'd guess not. Assuming it's running at 150 rpm, to deliver 130 Nm of torque would need 2.74 horsepower And there are 746 watts per horsepower - but only with a 100% efficient motor. Your drill is likely a true 3/4 HP. Its 2,600 rpm if that makes a difference. That's a hell of a lick for an SDS. Think the max on my DeWalt is more like 1000. Sorry, I meant the impact driver was 2,600 rpm. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
#26
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Talk the torque.
The Medway Handyman wrote:
What's going on here? Is there 'torque' & 'torque'? Is it something to do with Clarkson? To quote from: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...driver#The_bad "Finally there are some (relatively rare) situations where in spite of their significantly higher torque, they will be unable to move a fixing that a conventional drill driver will move. This only happens when the fixing you are trying to turn is quite elastic and able to absorb the full moment of the rotational impact, without the end already driven into the wood turning. Moving this type of stuck fixing requires continuous torque to "wind up" the fixing and absorb the backlash." -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#27
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Talk the torque.
John Rumm wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote: What's going on here? Is there 'torque' & 'torque'? Is it something to do with Clarkson? To quote from: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...driver#The_bad "Finally there are some (relatively rare) situations where in spite of their significantly higher torque, they will be unable to move a fixing that a conventional drill driver will move. This only happens when the fixing you are trying to turn is quite elastic and able to absorb the full moment of the rotational impact, without the end already driven into the wood turning. Moving this type of stuck fixing requires continuous torque to "wind up" the fixing and absorb the backlash." Makes perfect sense. In both cases the fixings were very long - 140mm & 250mm, and of relatively small diameter - 6mm. Two (relatively rare) situations in the same week :-) -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
#28
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Talk the torque.
On 5 Nov, 23:24, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote: I have battery & mains Makita impact drivers, both claiming torque of 130 + Nm. *Both certainly punch in screws & coach bolts with ease, much better than a drill driver. Impact drivers don't have "torque" as a useful figure, because they're dynamic rather than a static torque. A torque wrench (i.e. simple lever and weight) applies a constant static torque, a petrol engine might vary its torque a little as it rotates between strokes (esp. 2-strokes). An impact driver though delivers all of its torque in a single blow (or series of separate blows) and the actual torque at a moment in time varies through a curve that increases sharply with impact then tapers off. It's the difference between pushing a hammer head against a nail, or swinging it. The total energy might be the same, but delivering it over a short time interval gives a far higher peak figure for force (or torque). You still care mostly about the impulse delivered (i.e. the integral) rather than the peak force, but the "gimmick" of an impact driver is that this short pulse allows high instant forces to help unstick things. Really though, to measure the "grunt" of an impact driver you have to measure the integral of this torque over time (i.e. the area under the curve). Even then there's likely to need to be some scaling for perfect realism, as higher torque is "better" in a non-linear fashion for unsticking rusted bolts (maybe consider the integral of the square of the torque?). The integral though is likely to be closely proportional to motor power and battery power consumption, although obviously reduced by the efficiency rating. If you're in marketing though, the ability to lie through numbers comes in. Rather than taking a sensible "grunt" rating, the temptation is to find any number that's best on your brand regardless of its true value. Peak instantaneous torque is an obvious candidate. Now if this is _too_ high, it's likely to be "real" and "measureable" but it also wastes too much power and integral grunt in short-term bending of the socket and drive etc., rather than anything you can use. |
#29
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Talk the torque.
Andy Dingley wrote:
If you're in marketing though, the ability to lie through numbers comes in. Rather than taking a sensible "grunt" rating, the temptation is to find any number that's best on your brand regardless of its true value. Peak instantaneous torque is an obvious candidate. Now if this Agreed, however there is more to it than just total "grunt" - it also matters how its delivered. Using your own example, hitting a nail with a hammer will be far more effective than simply doing the same amount of mechanical work pushing it against the nail. is _too_ high, it's likely to be "real" and "measureable" but it also wastes too much power and integral grunt in short-term bending of the socket and drive etc., rather than anything you can use. Indeed, and you can see this in the circumstance that Dave mentioned above - an elastic fastening that can simply absorb the rotational impact and then spring back, without actually turning. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#30
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Talk the torque.
On 6 Nov, 12:27, John Rumm wrote:
Agreed, however there is more to it than just total "grunt" I was using "grunt" to indicate an exactly proportional measure of benefit. How you map measurable torque and time onto this invented "grunt" is quite another question 8-) (According to Russell Crowe though, "grunt" is measured in feet) |
#31
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Talk the torque.
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message om... Puzzled over the claimed torque of impact drivers. I have battery & mains Makita impact drivers, both claiming torque of 130 + Nm. Both certainly punch in screws & coach bolts with ease, much better than a drill driver. Two examples lately where they failed to cut the mustard. Inserting 140mm x 6 mm multi monti's into brick (correct size pilot, clearance & depth of hole) where the impact driver simply stopped leaving an inch of the fixing protruding. Another where a customer had used some 300mm timber connectors on railway sleepers & his drill driver left several inches protruding. Tried the impact driver which still wouldn't drive them completely flush. Remove the screw and dip in grease. Then use grease on them all after. With an Impact Driver just let the hammer work. The screw may not be turning but the hammer is still smacking the screw. I have had it where the screw then starts to to turn after I kept the driver on for a minute or so. SDS's on low speed are great and will drive almost anything in. |
#32
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Talk the torque.
On 6 Nov, 13:37, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
SDS's on low speed are great and will drive almost anything in. Why does an SDS mechanism have anything to offer at all for rotation? |
#33
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Talk the torque.
"Andy Dingley" wrote in message ... On 6 Nov, 13:37, "Doctor Drivel" wrote: SDS's on low speed are great and will drive almost anything in. Why does an SDS mechanism have anything to offer at all for rotation? SDS drills have high torque low speed. Nothing to do with mechanism. |
#34
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Talk the torque.
"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message ... "Andy Dingley" wrote in message ... On 6 Nov, 13:37, "Doctor Drivel" wrote: SDS's on low speed are great and will drive almost anything in. Why does an SDS mechanism have anything to offer at all for rotation? SDS drills have high torque low speed. Nothing to do with mechanism. I have a high torque drill and it is not an SDS chuck and it doesn't have a hammer function. It will drill 32 mm in steel though. SDS is a chuck type not a drill type. |
#35
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Talk the torque.
"dennis@home" wrote in message ... "Doctor Drivel" wrote in message ... "Andy Dingley" wrote in message ... On 6 Nov, 13:37, "Doctor Drivel" wrote: SDS's on low speed are great and will drive almost anything in. Why does an SDS mechanism have anything to offer at all for rotation? SDS drills have high torque low speed. Nothing to do with mechanism. I have a high torque drill and it is not an SDS chuck and it doesn't have a hammer function. It will drill 32 mm in steel though. They are available. SDS is a chuck type not a drill type. Er, no. It is a drill type, which also incorporates a chuck type too, which is only specific to the drill type. I used a keyed chuck into the SDS chuck. |
#36
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Talk the torque.
On 7 Nov, 11:17, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
SDS's on low speed are great and will drive almost anything in. Why does an SDS mechanism have anything to offer at all for rotation? SDS drills have high torque low speed. Nothing to do with mechanism. My AEG SDS has plenty of torque and a middling speed. Even then it doesn't have quite as much torque as another (older) hammer drill, or _anything_like_ the torque of my real slow-speed drill (a Wickes Kress) used for big augers and plaster mixing. The Happy Shopper SDS you're so fond of recommending have about as much torque as arm wrestling Russell Brand. |
#37
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Talk the torque.
"Andy Dingley" wrote in message ... On 7 Nov, 11:17, "Doctor Drivel" wrote: SDS's on low speed are great and will drive almost anything in. Why does an SDS mechanism have anything to offer at all for rotation? SDS drills have high torque low speed. Nothing to do with mechanism. My AEG SDS has plenty of torque and a middling speed. Even then it doesn't have quite as much torque as another (older) hammer drill, or _anything_like_ the torque of my real slow-speed drill (a Wickes Kress) used for big augers and plaster mixing. The Happy Shopper SDS you're so fond of recommending have about as much torque as arm wrestling Russell Brand. I have a Kress. The screws sailed into the wood - very powerful. The average cheaply SDS has lots of torque. (it seems off that Andy Hall is not coming in on this thread) |
#38
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Talk the torque.
"Andy Dingley" wrote in message ... On 7 Nov, 11:17, "Doctor Drivel" wrote: SDS's on low speed are great and will drive almost anything in. Why does an SDS mechanism have anything to offer at all for rotation? SDS drills have high torque low speed. Nothing to do with mechanism. My AEG SDS has plenty of torque and a middling speed. Even then it doesn't have quite as much torque as another (older) hammer drill, or _anything_like_ the torque of my real slow-speed drill (a Wickes Kress) used for big augers and plaster mixing. Is that the one with the 15" steel side handle? I bought one for £10 when Wickes were clearing them out. |
#39
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In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote: SDS's on low speed are great and will drive almost anything in. That applies to any mains drill that can go slow enough. Nothing to do with it being SDS. -- *I get enough exercise just pushing my luck. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#40
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Doctor Drivel wrote: SDS's on low speed are great and will drive almost anything in. That applies to any mains drill that can go slow enough. Nothing to do with it being SDS. Many SDS drills have their gearing set such that their top speed is in the 900 - 1200 rpm range. That tends to be somewhat lower than ordinary single speed drills, and closer to the low gear on a two speed gearbox drill. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
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