Just in the dying weeks of our extension build and the plumber is
fitting his electrical bits. He's about to bury the 5 core *flex*
(not solid core cable) for the thermostat in the wall plaster, but
I've got in mind that this is a no-no. However, having thought that
thought I can't find any reference to it being prohibited in the 16th
edition on site guide.
Anyone with any references as to why that is not acceptable?

In article
,
pepper wrote:
Just in the dying weeks of our extension build and the plumber is
fitting his electrical bits. He's about to bury the 5 core *flex*
(not solid core cable) for the thermostat in the wall plaster, but
I've got in mind that this is a no-no. However, having thought that
thought I can't find any reference to it being prohibited in the 16th
edition on site guide.

I'm curious about the five cores. Ignoring earth, most older stats need
only three - newer ones like programmable ones two. Unless it needs both
heating and cooling outputs. So the common cable to use is triple and
earth.

--
*Forget the Joneses, I keep us up with the Simpsons.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I'm curious about the five cores. Ignoring earth, most older stats need
only three - newer ones like programmable ones two. Unless it needs both
heating and cooling outputs. So the common cable to use is triple and
earth.

My programmable stat (not battery powered) has

earth
neutral
live
switched live for h/w
switched live for c/h

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I'm curious about the five cores. Ignoring earth, most older stats need
only three - newer ones like programmable ones two. Unless it needs both
heating and cooling outputs. So the common cable to use is triple and
earth.

Perhaps it's a wireless thermostat like the Honeywell HC60NG which would
need at least 4 cores, a L & N for the electronics and a pair for the
boiler thermostat circuit. Add in a (redundant) CPC and you've got 5 cores
or a T&E and a twin.

--
Mike Clarke

"pepper" wrote in message
...
Just in the dying weeks of our extension build and the plumber is
fitting his electrical bits. He's about to bury the 5 core *flex*
(not solid core cable) for the thermostat in the wall plaster, but
I've got in mind that this is a no-no. However, having thought that
thought I can't find any reference to it being prohibited in the 16th
edition on site guide.

You tell us why it is wrong, it's easier that way. You must know why
it could be wrong if you are going to challenge a profesional with
comments made by people you don't know in a newsgroup!
I ued to hate working for people like you, the classic Victor Meldrew
with the "readers digest book of how to rewire".
How do you know the suggestions will be correct? Are you seriously
going to say to the electrician that people in a newsgroup said he was
wrong? You're going to look an even bigger tit than you appear now.

In article ,
pepper writes:
Just in the dying weeks of our extension build and the plumber is
fitting his electrical bits. He's about to bury the 5 core *flex*
(not solid core cable) for the thermostat in the wall plaster, but
I've got in mind that this is a no-no. However, having thought that
thought I can't find any reference to it being prohibited in the 16th
edition on site guide.
Anyone with any references as to why that is not acceptable?

Using flex for permanent wiring is acceptable. It's not
normally done because it's significantly more expensive.
Wiring terminals need to be suitable for flex strands too.

Unless it has earthed metalic protection, the circuit
must be RCD protected accroding to 17th Edition regs if
buried in a wall. (This is nothing to do with using flex
or solid core.)

Personally, I wouldn't want to have the heating system
sharing an RCD with anything else (might lose your
frost protection whilst away on holiday), so you might
consider burying a steel conduit or steel capping in the
wall (and earth it) rather than have the central heating
on a dedicated RCD.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 01:07:27 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be pepper
wrote this:-

Just in the dying weeks of our extension build and the plumber is
fitting his electrical bits. He's about to bury the 5 core *flex*
(not solid core cable) for the thermostat in the wall plaster, but
I've got in mind that this is a no-no. However, having thought that
thought I can't find any reference to it being prohibited in the 16th
edition on site guide.

You need to follow the 17th Edition now. This has new requirements
about burying cables. I think they are over the top, but in their
wisdom that is what IET have concocted.

Flexible cables can be used in fixed wiring. The usual drawings one
may see in books show examples of this, for example using a short
length of high temperature flex to feed a luminaire. However, it
must be secured properly (as indeed must any other type of cable).

The plumber will also need to ensure that the flex is appropriately
fused. That may mean inserting a fuse into the circuit, depending on
circumstances.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
I'm curious about the five cores. Ignoring earth, most older stats
need only three - newer ones like programmable ones two. Unless it
needs both heating and cooling outputs. So the common cable to use is
triple and earth.

My programmable stat (not battery powered) has

earth
neutral
live
switched live for h/w
switched live for c/h

Why has the room stat got connections for water heating?

--
*Failure is not an option. It's bundled with your software.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Why has the room stat got connections for water heating?

Because it's a programmable stat, that acts as the timer for the whole
system.

http://www.heatmisershop.co.uk/store...cat=290&page=1

Ian wrote:

You tell us why it is wrong, it's easier that way. You must know why
it could be wrong if you are going to challenge a profesional with
comments made by people you don't know in a newsgroup!

Do you have the above phrase on a keyboard shortcut or something?

I would love to know how many times I have been saved from either being
taken to the cleaners by so-called professionals, or at least saved
bucket-loads of cash which would otherwise have been paid unnecessarily
to tradesmen, courtesy of advice generously proffered by people in
newsgroups (especially this one) who I've never met.

As a real professional, you of course would never dream of taking any
slightly dodgy shortcuts to get a job done quicker/easier - however, are
you really going to tell me that in your everyday work you've never,
ever come across the crappy results of cowboy tradesmen who *have* done so?

David

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
et...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Why has the room stat got connections for water heating?

Because it's a programmable stat, that acts as the timer for the whole
system.


http://www.heatmisershop.co.uk/store...38&cat=290&pag
e=1



That is a nice piece of kit. I have fitted hundreds of stat, programmers and
programmable thermostats but I have never seen that model before.

Not a bad price as well.

Adam

"Mike Clarke" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I'm curious about the five cores. Ignoring earth, most older stats need
only three - newer ones like programmable ones two. Unless it needs both
heating and cooling outputs. So the common cable to use is triple and
earth.

Perhaps it's a wireless thermostat like the Honeywell HC60NG which would
need at least 4 cores, a L & N for the electronics and a pair for the
boiler thermostat circuit. Add in a (redundant) CPC and you've got 5 cores
or a T&E and a twin.

--
Mike Clarke

Not much of a wireless system then :-)

Adam

David Hansen wrote:
On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 01:07:27 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be pepper
wrote this:-

Just in the dying weeks of our extension build and the plumber is
fitting his electrical bits. He's about to bury the 5 core *flex*
(not solid core cable) for the thermostat in the wall plaster, but
I've got in mind that this is a no-no. However, having thought that
thought I can't find any reference to it being prohibited in the 16th
edition on site guide.

I bought a house some years ago with PVC covered cable
buried in the plaster (Ceiling) The plaster cracked along
the line of the cable run and no matter how hard I tried to
keep the crack filled it kept re-appearing. Must have been
something to with differential expansion. FWIW

ARWadsworth wrote:

That is a nice piece of kit. I have fitted hundreds of stat, programmers and
programmable thermostats but I have never seen that model before.

The only feature I wish it has is "+1 hour" for the h/w, you can turn it
on, but then it stays on until the next switching period, not too bad
provided the tank is well insulated and has its own stat.

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
et...
ARWadsworth wrote:

That is a nice piece of kit. I have fitted hundreds of stat, programmers
and
programmable thermostats but I have never seen that model before.

The only feature I wish it has is "+1 hour" for the h/w, you can turn it
on, but then it stays on until the next switching period, not too bad
provided the tank is well insulated and has its own stat.

If the wiring control centre is in the airing cupboard you could put
seperate 1 hour booster switch in the cupboard.

Adam

ARWadsworth wrote:

If the wiring control centre is in the airing cupboard you could put
seperate 1 hour booster switch in the cupboard.

The wiring centre is in the kitchen with the boiler, but yes, I realise
I could put one in parallel.

ARWadsworth wrote:

Not much of a wireless system then :-)

OK, perhaps I should have said "like the Honeywell HC60NG receiver box used
in conjunction with a CM927 or similar wireless room thermostat" :-)

--
Mike Clarke

Ian wrote:
"pepper" wrote in message
...
Just in the dying weeks of our extension build and the plumber is
fitting his electrical bits. He's about to bury the 5 core *flex*
(not solid core cable) for the thermostat in the wall plaster, but
I've got in mind that this is a no-no. However, having thought that
thought I can't find any reference to it being prohibited in the 16th
edition on site guide.

You tell us why it is wrong, it's easier that way. You must know why
it could be wrong if you are going to challenge a profesional with
comments made by people you don't know in a newsgroup!
I ued to hate working for people like you, the classic Victor Meldrew
with the "readers digest book of how to rewire".
How do you know the suggestions will be correct? Are you seriously
going to say to the electrician that people in a newsgroup said he was
wrong? You're going to look an even bigger tit than you appear now.


do you have to be such an arse I would hate you to work for me, if you
have **** all to say why waste the bandwidth, just because the guys a
plumber does not make him an electrician he might not be qualified to do
either job and could be just a flipping cowboy they do exist!!!!!

--
Kevin R
Reply address works

On 25 Oct, 12:57, Lobster wrote:
Ian wrote:
You tell us why it is wrong, it's easier that way. *You must know why
it could be wrong if you are going to challenge a profesional with
comments made by people you don't know in a newsgroup!

Do you have the above phrase on a keyboard shortcut or something?

I would love to know how many times I have been saved from either being
taken to the cleaners by so-called professionals, or at least saved
bucket-loads of cash which would otherwise have been paid unnecessarily
to tradesmen, courtesy of advice generously proffered by people in
newsgroups (especially this one) who I've never met.

As a real professional, you of course would never dream of taking any
slightly dodgy shortcuts to get a job done quicker/easier - however, are
you really going to tell me that in your everyday work you've never,
ever come across the crappy results of cowboy tradesmen who *have* done so?

David

Ian; I'm the OP - I am am a seasoned newsgroup user, and am well aware
of the range of good and bad advice that can originate on the net. I
know that very very much of the advice in this particular group is
valuable and informed, and that professionals do frequent this group
too. You will note that in my original post I asked has "anyone any
*references* as to why that is not acceptable?"... thus if it had been
unlawful then someone could have said 'no this is specifically
prohibited in paragraph x section y of the 17th edition'. With that
information I could have gone back and told my plumber that I wasn't
happy with what he was installing.
As it is, I have asked the question of the group, I have the concensus
that it is fine and I have not done a Victor Meldrew on the tradesmen
working for me. Don't berate me for asking, as David (Lobster), said
there are *plenty* of cowboy tradesmen out there who do cut corners.
NB. FYI Dave Plowman - It is a Heatmiser PRT, I think the five cores
are LNE and a changeover contact i.e either of the remaining two
terminals are energised.
Thank you everyone for your helpful replies.

On Oct 25, 8:07*am, pepper wrote:
Just in the dying weeks of our extension build and the plumber is
fitting his electrical bits. *He's about to bury the 5 core *flex*
(not solid core cable) for the thermostat in the wall plaster, but
I've got in mind that this is a no-no. *However, having thought that
thought I can't find any reference to it being prohibited in the 16th
edition on site guide.
Anyone with any references as to why that is not acceptable?

Despite my not having read the 17th edition regs....
I'd be happy provided it was in a plastic conduit or trunking under
the plaster.

It looks a very nice thermostat and simple to use. I can understand
how to operate it just by looking at the picture.

Tony