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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Induction Motors and Broadband Routers
My broadband router drops out (DSL light goes out) every time I run
either my planer or my radial-arm saw. Nothing else seems to do it, even the 3KW router with a big bit. These machines both have induction motors, which I guess have a big start-up current. I was planning to put in a new feed with 10mm T&E from the CU (about 35 metres - all in the loft of the bungalow) to the workshop, but it occurs to me to ask here first as there may be other things I can do to help protect the router. The router is currently on the same ring main as the workshop. R. |
#2
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Induction Motors and Broadband Routers
"TheOldFellow" wrote in message ... My broadband router drops out (DSL light goes out) every time I run either my planer or my radial-arm saw. Nothing else seems to do it, even the 3KW router with a big bit. These machines both have induction motors, which I guess have a big start-up current. I doubt if the start up current has any effect on the router, mine survives visible brown outs without any problems. It may be RFI, its cheap and easy to put a ferrite on the mains lead to try to reduce RFI. Maplin sell them for a couple of quid. If that doesn't work then you may well have to invest quite a lot of effort in filters. |
#3
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Induction Motors and Broadband Routers
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#5
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Induction Motors and Broadband Routers
On Sep 1, 12:58 pm, TheOldFellow wrote:
My broadband router drops out (DSL light goes out) every time I run either my planer or my radial-arm saw. Nothing else seems to do it, even the 3KW router with a big bit. These machines both have induction motors, which I guess have a big start-up current. I was planning to put in a new feed with 10mm T&E from the CU (about 35 metres - all in the loft of the bungalow) to the workshop, but it occurs to me to ask here first as there may be other things I can do to help protect the router. The router is currently on the same ring main as the workshop. If a filament lamp is plugged in next to the router does it dip when the motor starts? cheers, Pete. |
#6
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Induction Motors and Broadband Routers
TheOldFellow formulated on Monday :
My broadband router drops out (DSL light goes out) every time I run either my planer or my radial-arm saw. Nothing else seems to do it, even the 3KW router with a big bit. These machines both have induction motors, which I guess have a big start-up current. I was planning to put in a new feed with 10mm T&E from the CU (about 35 metres - all in the loft of the bungalow) to the workshop, but it occurs to me to ask here first as there may be other things I can do to help protect the router. The router is currently on the same ring main as the workshop. R. Two possibilities, or maybe a combination of both... 1. The startup current of the motors is pulling the mains supply down to the point where the router is no longer able to function and resets. 2. The interference from the surge of current is getting into the telephone line or router via the LAN wiring causing it to have to resync itself. For 1. you could try a small UPS or even a small 12v battery if the router is able to work on that voltage. For 2. make sure telephone and LAN cable are well spaced away from mains wiring and perhaps add some ferrite rings around these cables. -- Regards, Harry (M1BYT) (L) http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk |
#7
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Induction Motors and Broadband Routers
On Mon, 1 Sep 2008 13:16:09 +0100
"dennis@home" wrote: "TheOldFellow" wrote in message ... My broadband router drops out (DSL light goes out) every time I run either my planer or my radial-arm saw. Nothing else seems to do it, even the 3KW router with a big bit. These machines both have induction motors, which I guess have a big start-up current. I doubt if the start up current has any effect on the router, mine survives visible brown outs without any problems. It may be RFI, its cheap and easy to put a ferrite on the mains lead to try to reduce RFI. Maplin sell them for a couple of quid. If that doesn't work then you may well have to invest quite a lot of effort in filters. Thanks. This the most probable cause as the the unfiltered phone cable runs quite a way near the T&E ring in the loft. The router runs with a noise margin of just 6.4 Db, so any significant extra noise will drop it, I guess - I'm 6 Km from the exchange. I already have a filtered NTE5e plate, but have not got around to doing the rewire of the phones yet. Clearly that's the first job! I probably should get some RFI ferrites too, next time I'm in Maplins. Glad I asked. R. |
#8
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Induction Motors and Broadband Routers
"TheOldFellow" wrote in message ... On Mon, 1 Sep 2008 13:16:09 +0100 "dennis@home" wrote: "TheOldFellow" wrote in message ... My broadband router drops out (DSL light goes out) every time I run either my planer or my radial-arm saw. Nothing else seems to do it, even the 3KW router with a big bit. These machines both have induction motors, which I guess have a big start-up current. I doubt if the start up current has any effect on the router, mine survives visible brown outs without any problems. It may be RFI, its cheap and easy to put a ferrite on the mains lead to try to reduce RFI. Maplin sell them for a couple of quid. If that doesn't work then you may well have to invest quite a lot of effort in filters. Thanks. This the most probable cause as the the unfiltered phone cable runs quite a way near the T&E ring in the loft. The router runs with a noise margin of just 6.4 Db, so any significant extra noise will drop it, I guess - I'm 6 Km from the exchange. I already have a filtered NTE5e plate, but have not got around to doing the rewire of the phones yet. Clearly that's the first job! I probably should get some RFI ferrites too, next time I'm in Maplins. Glad I asked. Don't put them on the phone line.. BB doesn't like them. |
#9
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Induction Motors and Broadband Routers
On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 07:19:05 +0100, TheOldFellow wrote:
Thanks. This the most probable cause as the the unfiltered phone cable runs quite a way near the T&E ring in the loft. The router runs with a noise margin of just 6.4 Db, so any significant extra noise will drop it, I guess - I'm 6 Km from the exchange. Certainly will, get as much separation as you can between the phone line and any mains and don't run stuff parallel. If cables must cross, cross them at 90 degrees with as much space as possible. Consider moving the NTE to be as close as possible to where the line hits your house(*) and fit your ADSL modem/router there as well, Running CAT5 from it your PC or network switch. CAT5 is relatively immune to interference. The POTS wiring can utilise the existing loft wiring to the original NTE position and distribution. I already have a filtered NTE5e plate, but have not got around to doing the rewire of the phones yet. Clearly that's the first job! Once you have sorted the wiring try a few different filters. They are not all created equal. I bought and ADSL Nation faceplate but it doesn't work as well as the BT MF50 dongle type. Roughly 500kbps to 1000kbps worse on the ADSL side and less able to maintain a good daytime sync overnight. I probably should get some RFI ferrites too, next time I'm in Maplins. Glad I asked. Depends where you put them. The carriers for ADSL broadband extend to nearly 1.2MHz, you really don't want to be attenuating those upper frequencies any more than they already are. The filter should stop pickup on the POTS wiring getting back into the unfiltered side and thus mucking up the ADSL signals. But pay attention to ensuring that the POTS ring and earth wires do not connect across the filter to the unfiltered side. (*) In theory you have to get BT Openreach to move it but don't fit it in the loft as BT Openreach won't go there if you have a fault. Even if the loft is fully boarded and lit. -- Cheers Dave. |
#10
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Induction Motors and Broadband Routers
In message , Harry
Bloomfield writes Two possibilities, or maybe a combination of both... 1. The startup current of the motors is pulling the mains supply down to the point where the router is no longer able to function and resets. 2. The interference from the surge of current is getting into the telephone line or router via the LAN wiring causing it to have to resync itself. Alternatively, if it's a speed controlled motor then the interference may well be from the controller. I think the OP has answered his own question though, he says the cables run close to each other in the loft so re-wiring the phones and running Ethernet to his PC from the router at the master socket instead of the ADSL signal to the router is probably the best solution. For 1. you could try a small UPS or even a small 12v battery if the router is able to work on that voltage. For 2. make sure telephone and LAN cable are well spaced away from mains wiring and perhaps add some ferrite rings around these cables. -- Clint Sharp |
#11
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Induction Motors and Broadband Routers
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
make sure telephone and LAN cable are well spaced away from mains wiring and perhaps add some ferrite rings around these cables. Thats the best way of completely blocking broadband I have heard of: put ferrite rings round the broadband cable :-) If you meant phone extensions, what did you think was in the filter that goes between them and the router anyway? Put ferrite on POWER wires to the motor etc, not on the broadband signal wires. |
#12
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Induction Motors and Broadband Routers
On Tue, 02 Sep 2008 22:08:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote: Harry Bloomfield wrote: make sure telephone and LAN cable are well spaced away from mains wiring and perhaps add some ferrite rings around these cables. Thats the best way of completely blocking broadband I have heard of: put ferrite rings round the broadband cable :-) If you can get hold of Mullard FX1588 rings they are very effective at MF/HF frequencies (around the 'frequency' of broadband). -- Frank Erskine |
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