Induction Motors and Broadband Routers
 

My broadband router drops out (DSL light goes out) every time I run
either my planer or my radial-arm saw. Nothing else seems to do it,
even the 3KW router with a big bit. These machines both have induction
motors, which I guess have a big start-up current.

I was planning to put in a new feed with 10mm T&E from the CU (about
35 metres - all in the loft of the bungalow) to the workshop, but it
occurs to me to ask here first as there may be other things I can do to
help protect the router. The router is currently on the same ring main
as the workshop.

R.

Induction Motors and Broadband Routers
 

"TheOldFellow" wrote in message
...
My broadband router drops out (DSL light goes out) every time I run
either my planer or my radial-arm saw. Nothing else seems to do it,
even the 3KW router with a big bit. These machines both have induction
motors, which I guess have a big start-up current.

I doubt if the start up current has any effect on the router, mine survives
visible brown outs without any problems.
It may be RFI, its cheap and easy to put a ferrite on the mains lead to try
to reduce RFI. Maplin sell them for a couple of quid.
If that doesn't work then you may well have to invest quite a lot of effort
in filters.

Induction Motors and Broadband Routers
 

In article ,
says...
My broadband router drops out (DSL light goes out) every time I run
either my planer or my radial-arm saw. Nothing else seems to do it,
even the 3KW router with a big bit. These machines both have induction
motors, which I guess have a big start-up current.

I was planning to put in a new feed with 10mm T&E from the CU (about
35 metres - all in the loft of the bungalow) to the workshop, but it
occurs to me to ask here first as there may be other things I can do to
help protect the router. The router is currently on the same ring main
as the workshop.


More likely to be RFI - picked up on your house telephone wiring. If
you tell us what you have for your current broadmand/phone layout, then
we can make recommendations - or contact me off-line since it's covered
by other newsgroups.

--
John W
To mail me replace the obvious with co.uk twice

Induction Motors and Broadband Routers
 

"John Weston" wrote in message
.. .
In article ,
says...
My broadband router drops out (DSL light goes out) every time I run
either my planer or my radial-arm saw. Nothing else seems to do it,
even the 3KW router with a big bit. These machines both have induction
motors, which I guess have a big start-up current.

I was planning to put in a new feed with 10mm T&E from the CU (about
35 metres - all in the loft of the bungalow) to the workshop, but it
occurs to me to ask here first as there may be other things I can do to
help protect the router. The router is currently on the same ring main
as the workshop.


More likely to be RFI - picked up on your house telephone wiring. If
you tell us what you have for your current broadmand/phone layout, then
we can make recommendations - or contact me off-line since it's covered
by other newsgroups.



Yes, I cured mine by fitting an ADSL faceplate
http://www.solwise.co.uk/adsl_splitters.htm
and removing the ring wire.



-

Induction Motors and Broadband Routers
 

On Sep 1, 12:58 pm, TheOldFellow wrote:
My broadband router drops out (DSL light goes out) every time I run
either my planer or my radial-arm saw. Nothing else seems to do it,
even the 3KW router with a big bit. These machines both have induction
motors, which I guess have a big start-up current.

I was planning to put in a new feed with 10mm T&E from the CU (about
35 metres - all in the loft of the bungalow) to the workshop, but it
occurs to me to ask here first as there may be other things I can do to
help protect the router. The router is currently on the same ring main
as the workshop.

If a filament lamp is plugged in next to the router does it dip when
the motor starts?

cheers,
Pete.

Induction Motors and Broadband Routers
 

TheOldFellow formulated on Monday :
My broadband router drops out (DSL light goes out) every time I run
either my planer or my radial-arm saw. Nothing else seems to do it,
even the 3KW router with a big bit. These machines both have induction
motors, which I guess have a big start-up current.

I was planning to put in a new feed with 10mm T&E from the CU (about
35 metres - all in the loft of the bungalow) to the workshop, but it
occurs to me to ask here first as there may be other things I can do to
help protect the router. The router is currently on the same ring main
as the workshop.

R.

Two possibilities, or maybe a combination of both...

1. The startup current of the motors is pulling the mains supply down
to the point where the router is no longer able to function and resets.

2. The interference from the surge of current is getting into the
telephone line or router via the LAN wiring causing it to have to
resync itself.

For 1. you could try a small UPS or even a small 12v battery if the
router is able to work on that voltage.

For 2. make sure telephone and LAN cable are well spaced away from
mains wiring and perhaps add some ferrite rings around these cables.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Induction Motors and Broadband Routers
 

On Mon, 1 Sep 2008 13:16:09 +0100
"dennis@home" wrote:



"TheOldFellow" wrote in message
...
My broadband router drops out (DSL light goes out) every time I run
either my planer or my radial-arm saw. Nothing else seems to do it,
even the 3KW router with a big bit. These machines both have induction
motors, which I guess have a big start-up current.

I doubt if the start up current has any effect on the router, mine survives
visible brown outs without any problems.
It may be RFI, its cheap and easy to put a ferrite on the mains lead to try
to reduce RFI. Maplin sell them for a couple of quid.
If that doesn't work then you may well have to invest quite a lot of effort
in filters.





Thanks. This the most probable cause as the the unfiltered phone cable
runs quite a way near the T&E ring in the loft. The router runs with a
noise margin of just 6.4 Db, so any significant extra noise will drop
it, I guess - I'm 6 Km from the exchange.

I already have a filtered NTE5e plate, but have not got around to doing
the rewire of the phones yet. Clearly that's the first job!

I probably should get some RFI ferrites too, next time I'm in Maplins.
Glad I asked.

R.

Induction Motors and Broadband Routers
 

"TheOldFellow" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 1 Sep 2008 13:16:09 +0100
"dennis@home" wrote:



"TheOldFellow" wrote in message
...
My broadband router drops out (DSL light goes out) every time I run
either my planer or my radial-arm saw. Nothing else seems to do it,
even the 3KW router with a big bit. These machines both have induction
motors, which I guess have a big start-up current.

I doubt if the start up current has any effect on the router, mine
survives
visible brown outs without any problems.
It may be RFI, its cheap and easy to put a ferrite on the mains lead to
try
to reduce RFI. Maplin sell them for a couple of quid.
If that doesn't work then you may well have to invest quite a lot of
effort
in filters.





Thanks. This the most probable cause as the the unfiltered phone cable
runs quite a way near the T&E ring in the loft. The router runs with a
noise margin of just 6.4 Db, so any significant extra noise will drop
it, I guess - I'm 6 Km from the exchange.

I already have a filtered NTE5e plate, but have not got around to doing
the rewire of the phones yet. Clearly that's the first job!

I probably should get some RFI ferrites too, next time I'm in Maplins.
Glad I asked.

Don't put them on the phone line.. BB doesn't like them.

Induction Motors and Broadband Routers
 

On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 07:19:05 +0100, TheOldFellow wrote:

Thanks. This the most probable cause as the the unfiltered phone cable
runs quite a way near the T&E ring in the loft. The router runs with a
noise margin of just 6.4 Db, so any significant extra noise will drop
it, I guess - I'm 6 Km from the exchange.

Certainly will, get as much separation as you can between the phone line
and any mains and don't run stuff parallel. If cables must cross, cross
them at 90 degrees with as much space as possible.

Consider moving the NTE to be as close as possible to where the line hits
your house(*) and fit your ADSL modem/router there as well, Running CAT5
from it your PC or network switch. CAT5 is relatively immune to
interference.

The POTS wiring can utilise the existing loft wiring to the original NTE
position and distribution.

I already have a filtered NTE5e plate, but have not got around to doing
the rewire of the phones yet. Clearly that's the first job!

Once you have sorted the wiring try a few different filters. They are not
all created equal. I bought and ADSL Nation faceplate but it doesn't work
as well as the BT MF50 dongle type. Roughly 500kbps to 1000kbps worse on
the ADSL side and less able to maintain a good daytime sync overnight.

I probably should get some RFI ferrites too, next time I'm in Maplins.
Glad I asked.

Depends where you put them. The carriers for ADSL broadband extend to
nearly 1.2MHz, you really don't want to be attenuating those upper
frequencies any more than they already are. The filter should stop pickup
on the POTS wiring getting back into the unfiltered side and thus mucking
up the ADSL signals. But pay attention to ensuring that the POTS ring and
earth wires do not connect across the filter to the unfiltered side.

(*) In theory you have to get BT Openreach to move it but don't fit it in
the loft as BT Openreach won't go there if you have a fault. Even if the
loft is fully boarded and lit.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Induction Motors and Broadband Routers
 

In message , Harry
Bloomfield writes
Two possibilities, or maybe a combination of both...

1. The startup current of the motors is pulling the mains supply down
to the point where the router is no longer able to function and resets.

2. The interference from the surge of current is getting into the
telephone line or router via the LAN wiring causing it to have to
resync itself.

Alternatively, if it's a speed controlled motor then the interference
may well be from the controller. I think the OP has answered his own
question though, he says the cables run close to each other in the loft
so re-wiring the phones and running Ethernet to his PC from the router
at the master socket instead of the ADSL signal to the router is
probably the best solution.

For 1. you could try a small UPS or even a small 12v battery if the
router is able to work on that voltage.

For 2. make sure telephone and LAN cable are well spaced away from
mains wiring and perhaps add some ferrite rings around these cables.


--
Clint Sharp

Induction Motors and Broadband Routers
 

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
make sure telephone and LAN cable are well spaced away from mains
wiring and perhaps add some ferrite rings around these cables.


Thats the best way of completely blocking broadband I have heard of: put
ferrite rings round the broadband cable :-)

If you meant phone extensions, what did you think was in the filter that
goes between them and the router anyway?

Put ferrite on POWER wires to the motor etc, not on the broadband signal
wires.

Induction Motors and Broadband Routers
 

On Tue, 02 Sep 2008 22:08:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
make sure telephone and LAN cable are well spaced away from mains
wiring and perhaps add some ferrite rings around these cables.


Thats the best way of completely blocking broadband I have heard of: put
ferrite rings round the broadband cable :-)

If you can get hold of Mullard FX1588 rings they are very effective at
MF/HF frequencies (around the 'frequency' of broadband).

--
Frank Erskine