Anyone know how I can etch a small glass worktop saver cheaply to stop
stray reflections ? - I want to make myself a new "pro" mouse mat :-}

TIA :-}

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 22:23:44 +0100, Colin Wilson
o.uk wrote:


Anyone know how I can etch a small glass worktop saver cheaply to stop
stray reflections ? - I want to make myself a new "pro" mouse mat :-}

TIA :-}

Three methods are available.

Sandblasting which is easy if you know someone with the gear.

Hydrofluoric acid which is deadly and should be steered clear of.

And a harmless chemical that attacks part of the glass and gives a
fine etch to it. Sadly I don't remember it's name. Sorry

Anyone know how I can etch a small glass worktop saver cheaply to stop
stray reflections ? - I want to make myself a new "pro" mouse mat :-}
Can't help re. the etching...but I use a finely textured wall tile (
free sample ) and an optical mouse.

Hmm not an option that had occurred to me - one worthy of further
investigation :-p

Three methods are available.
Sandblasting which is easy if you know someone with the gear.

Nope :-(

Hydrofluoric acid which is deadly and should be steered clear of.

I knew there was an acid that did it, but couldn't remember what it
was - it's probably also a biatch to get hold of...

And a harmless chemical that attacks part of the glass and gives a
fine etch to it. Sadly I don't remember it's name. Sorry

Some of the DIY shops do an "etch" spray, but I suspect it's a plastic
sprayover layer, rather than a proper etch solution...

In message , EricP
writes
On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 22:23:44 +0100, Colin Wilson
REMOVEEVERYTHINGBUTnewsgroup@phoenixbbsZEROSPAM. co.uk wrote:


Anyone know how I can etch a small glass worktop saver cheaply to stop
stray reflections ? - I want to make myself a new "pro" mouse mat :-}

TIA :-}

Three methods are available.

Sandblasting which is easy if you know someone with the gear.

Well, if he can get to Watford, I have


Hydrofluoric acid which is deadly and should be steered clear of.

And a harmless chemical that attacks part of the glass and gives a
fine etch to it. Sadly I don't remember it's name. Sorry


the stuff you use for etching car windows

--
geoff

On Jul 18, 10:43*pm, Colin Wilson
o.uk wrote:
Anyone know how I can etch a small glass worktop saver cheaply to stop
stray reflections ? - I want to make myself a new "pro" mouse mat :-}
Can't help re. the etching...but I use a finely textured wall tile (
free sample ) and an optical mouse.

Hmm not an option that had occurred to me - one worthy of further
investigation :-p


What sandpaper abrasive's harder than glass?


NT

Colin Wilson coughed up some electrons that declared:

Hydrofluoric acid which is deadly and should be steered clear of.

I knew there was an acid that did it, but couldn't remember what it
was - it's probably also a biatch to get hold of...

It's very very nasty. Not at all like conc. nitric or sulphuric. Something
about where the fluoride ions go after they hit your skin - and how fast...

Apparently involves having appendages amputated if not flushed off quicky.
Not a chemist - just read the safety leaflet once.

google "hydrofluoric acid burns"

I'm totally mad, but I wouldn't go near the stuff.

Cheers

Tim

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 22:23:44 +0100, Colin Wilson
o.uk wrote:


Anyone know how I can etch a small glass worktop saver cheaply to stop
stray reflections ? - I want to make myself a new "pro" mouse mat :-}

Can't help re. the etching...but I use a finely textured wall tile (
free sample ) and an optical mouse.

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{who is at}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 15:00:25 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Jul 18, 10:43*pm, Colin Wilson
REMOVEEVERYTHINGBUTnewsgr...@phoenixbbsZEROSPAM. co.uk wrote:
Anyone know how I can etch a small glass worktop saver cheaply to stop
stray reflections ? - I want to make myself a new "pro" mouse mat :-}
Can't help re. the etching...but I use a finely textured wall tile (
free sample ) and an optical mouse.

Hmm not an option that had occurred to me - one worthy of further
investigation :-p


What sandpaper abrasive's harder than glass?

As a youngster I used to grind the surface of glass for photographic
purposes using another bit of glass and a paste of Vim-type scourer.
Worked a treat.

A glass worktop saver might be a bit tougher, so you may have to
resort to ordinary glass. No harm in experimenting though.

--
Frank Erskine

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 22:50:50 +0100, geoff wrote:

the stuff you use for etching car windows

Yep. Spot on.

Think it attacks the silica in the glass

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 23:33:06 +0100, Tim S wrote:

Colin Wilson coughed up some electrons that declared:

Hydrofluoric acid which is deadly and should be steered clear of.

I knew there was an acid that did it, but couldn't remember what it
was - it's probably also a biatch to get hold of...

It's very very nasty. Not at all like conc. nitric or sulphuric. Something
about where the fluoride ions go after they hit your skin - and how fast...

Apparently involves having appendages amputated if not flushed off quicky.
Not a chemist - just read the safety leaflet once.

google "hydrofluoric acid burns"

I'm totally mad, but I wouldn't go near the stuff.

Cheers

Tim

Years ago I was walking around a Clarke-Eaton glass factory and was
shown the blasting section where one little man did the artistic stuff
and good he was. But next to him was a large sheet of glass, flat on
the floor. It had a putty like stuff making an edging to dam a liquid
that had been poured over it. There it was right by the walkway, no
signs, nothing. Any passer could have triped and fallen right in it.
It was HF acid. )

Well, if he can get to Watford, I have

'fraid i'm up in Liverpool - it'd be cheaper to buy a vastly
overpriced £30 "gaming pad" than the cost of the petrol :-}

EricP wrote:

And a harmless chemical that attacks part of the glass and gives a
fine etch to it. Sadly I don't remember it's name. Sorry

Dunno about harmless, but ammonium bifluoride will do the job and is
much safer than HF:

SiO2 (s) + 4[NH4][HF2] (aq) †’ SiF4 (l) + 4[NH4]F (aq) + 2H2O (l)
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonium_bifluoride]

--
Andy

wrote:
On Jul 18, 10:43 pm, Colin Wilson
o.uk wrote:
Anyone know how I can etch a small glass worktop saver cheaply to stop
stray reflections ? - I want to make myself a new "pro" mouse mat :-}
Can't help re. the etching...but I use a finely textured wall tile (
free sample ) and an optical mouse.
Hmm not an option that had occurred to me - one worthy of further
investigation :-p


What sandpaper abrasive's harder than glass?




almost any. glass is soft. T cut would probably work..

NT

Hi Colin

Colin Wilson wrote:
Anyone know how I can etch a small glass worktop saver cheaply to stop
stray reflections ? - I want to make myself a new "pro" mouse mat :-}

TIA :-}

Stained glass suppliers will carry 'etching cream' which does just what
you want to do... (maybe)
An example is here http://www.tempsfordstainedglass.co.uk - search for
'etch' - but it's £15 + vat for a far bigger tub than you'd ever want.

The etching process does leave the glass slightly rough to the touch -
don;t know if that will affect your mouse 'slideability'.

I don't know if the cream contains Hydroflouric acid - but whatever it
contains, it's covered with elfin safety warnings - take great care with
it - they're not joking!

Your friendly local glass supplier might be able to sand-blast it for
you - or use some very fine wet-and-dry paper with water. Problem will
be in getting a uniform finish (whatever technique you use)

You used to be able to get 'non-reflective' glass - picture-framers used
it - might be worth asking - you might get an offcut for next-to-nothing
- but you'd need to treat the cut edges to take off the sharpness

If you were over her in Ireland then I could probably help - but postage
between here & there is a killer !

Regards
Adrian - www.inspired-glass.com

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 23:55:46 +0100, Frank Erskine wrote:

A glass worktop saver might be a bit tougher, so you may have to
resort to ordinary glass. No harm in experimenting though.

"tougher", hum, A worktop saver might be toughened glass as well, medium
risk of it just falling apart once you start to abrade one surface or at
some random time afterwards...

Probably better to get a couple of sheets of ordinary 6mm plate glass,
some mild abrasive (Vim etc has been mentioned) and water. Rounding the
edges or radusing the corners would probably be better done by a proper
glass merchant who may as well frost it as well.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 23:55:46 +0100, Frank Erskine wrote:

A glass worktop saver might be a bit tougher, so you may have to
resort to ordinary glass. No harm in experimenting though.

"tougher", hum, A worktop saver might be toughened glass as well, medium
risk of it just falling apart once you start to abrade one surface or at
some random time afterwards...

Probably better to get a couple of sheets of ordinary 6mm plate glass,
some mild abrasive (Vim etc has been mentioned) and water. Rounding the
edges or radusing the corners would probably be better done by a proper
glass merchant who may as well frost it as well.

To be honset, go and by a sqquare of frosted toughened glass anyway.
It's not THAT exepsnive. Hacing had 6 sheets of std. glass just break
under its own weight because here was a seat rail infer the dog rug in
the boot, anything other than toughened should NOT be allowed in a house.

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2008-07-19, Dave Liquorice
wrote:

Probably better to get a couple of sheets of ordinary 6mm plate
glass,
some mild abrasive (Vim etc has been mentioned) and water.
Rounding the
edges or radusing the corners would probably be better done by a
proper
glass merchant who may as well frost it as well.

I've watched a glass merchant make a sheet of PAR (Polished All
Round) and he
did the edges with a fine grindstone - like you would use to sharpen
a chisel.
I'd be quite happy to do it myself now, although this doesn't help
the OP.

(Also cutting glass; Having watched the glass chappie do it, I'm
much happier
about doing it myself.)


--
"Be thankful that you have a life, and forsake your vain
and presumptuous desire for a second one."
[email me at huge {at} huge (dot) org dot uk]



It would be a relatively soft bond (*)carborundum wheel - quite
probably a rubber bonded wheel rather than a vitrious one. If you use
a hard bonded wheel it'll end in tears

(*) the bond of the wheel is what is used to hold the abrasive grains
into a matrix, so 'soft' refers to the holding together power rather
than the hardness of the grains themself.

AWEM

AWEM

In article ,
Tim S writes:
Colin Wilson coughed up some electrons that declared:

Hydrofluoric acid which is deadly and should be steered clear of.

I knew there was an acid that did it, but couldn't remember what it
was - it's probably also a biatch to get hold of...

It's very very nasty. Not at all like conc. nitric or sulphuric. Something
about where the fluoride ions go after they hit your skin - and how fast...

Small quantities quickly cause bone destruction.
I think it's only a catalyst, so it's not used up
in the process and can just cary on going.

Hydrofluoric acid used to be used to make frosted
light bulb glass. Glass frosted in this way was very
good at diffusing light without generating much loss.
It was also possible to etch toughened glass (light
bulbs are slightly toughened so they can get away
with using very thin glass).

However, even in such carefully controlled industrial
processes, handling is now considered too dangerous
for this, and they've had to switch to less efficient
(in light terms) methods such as powered coatings.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 12:13:10 +0100, "Andrew Mawson"
wrote:

It would be a relatively soft bond (*)carborundum wheel

If they do much of this work, it's likely to be an abrasive belt. This
also make it quicker and easier to change abrasives if you're going for
a full polish.

On 19 Jul 2008 11:44:22 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

Small quantities quickly cause bone destruction.
I think it's only a catalyst, so it's not used up
in the process and can just cary on going.

It's not a catalytic reaction, but as you point out it's
self-regenerating and so it does carry on until you take action to stop
it.


Hydrofluoric acid used to be used to make frosted
light bulb glass.

Still is. Hydrofluoric is used to etch, then bifluoric (which leaves a
smooth surface) is used to "polish" the etch a little, giving dispersion
without much loss.

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 15:07:54 +0100, Andy Dingley
wrote:

On 19 Jul 2008 11:44:22 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

Small quantities quickly cause bone destruction.
I think it's only a catalyst, so it's not used up
in the process and can just cary on going.

It's not a catalytic reaction, but as you point out it's
self-regenerating and so it does carry on until you take action to stop
it.

Just in "tonight's" local evening rag:-

http://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/C...age.4303866.jp

--
Frank Erskine

In article ,
Andy Dingley writes:
On 19 Jul 2008 11:44:22 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

Small quantities quickly cause bone destruction.
I think it's only a catalyst, so it's not used up
in the process and can just cary on going.

It's not a catalytic reaction, but as you point out it's
self-regenerating and so it does carry on until you take action to stop
it.


Hydrofluoric acid used to be used to make frosted
light bulb glass.

Still is. Hydrofluoric is used to etch, then bifluoric (which leaves a

I'm told it all stopped a couple of years ago, at least for standard
light cheap bulbs. I haven't bought any myself for 20 years,
but looking at standard bulbs other people buy, they are now just
a fine power coating on the inside of the glass. The final straw
was aparently being unable to find anyone still willing to dispose
of the spent acid at end of use.

smooth surface) is used to "polish" the etch a little, giving dispersion
without much loss.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"Colin Wilson" o.uk wrote
in message g...

Anyone know how I can etch a small glass worktop saver cheaply to stop
stray reflections ? - I want to make myself a new "pro" mouse mat :-}

TIA :-}

Now that ball mice are largly a thing of the past how come promotional
mouse-mats are usually not sutable for optical mice?
Many a time I get complaints of jumping cursors, and using a mat-less
desk-top provides a complete cure.
--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

In article ,
Frank Erskine writes:
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 15:07:54 +0100, Andy Dingley
wrote:

On 19 Jul 2008 11:44:22 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

Small quantities quickly cause bone destruction.
I think it's only a catalyst, so it's not used up
in the process and can just cary on going.

It's not a catalytic reaction, but as you point out it's
self-regenerating and so it does carry on until you take action to stop
it.

Just in "tonight's" local evening rag:-

http://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/C...age.4303866.jp

which reminds me -- another potential source of hydrofluoric acid
which firemen need to be aware of is the fluoroelastomer synthetic
rubber used to make things like rubber door seals in cars. In certain
specific conditions in a fire, they produce hydrofluoric acid when
burned. This presents a nasty hidden danger for anyone handling a
vehicle after a fire.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 19/07/2008 15:47, Graham. wrote:

Now that ball mice are largly a thing of the past how come promotional
mouse-mats are usually not sutable for optical mice?
Many a time I get complaints of jumping cursors

I find that a clean sheet of A4 works best for most optical mice,
perhaps promotional mouse-mats could be printed with white ink on a
white background?

Andy Burns wrote:
On 19/07/2008 15:47, Graham. wrote:

Now that ball mice are largly a thing of the past how come promotional
mouse-mats are usually not sutable for optical mice?
Many a time I get complaints of jumping cursors

I find that a clean sheet of A4 works best for most optical mice,
perhaps promotional mouse-mats could be printed with white ink on a
white background?

I use a sheet of black Depron..

wrote:
On 19 Jul,
andrew@a17 (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

which reminds me -- another potential source of hydrofluoric acid
which firemen need to be aware of is the fluoroelastomer synthetic
rubber used to make things like rubber door seals in cars. In certain
specific conditions in a fire, they produce hydrofluoric acid when
burned. This presents a nasty hidden danger for anyone handling a
vehicle after a fire.

Was it 'viton' used for gaskets/O rings that has similar properties in fires?
We had to stop using it at work several years ago.


Correct - It's fluorinated rubbers such as viton that decompose at high
temperature to produce HF.
They are also expensive, so would be very surprised if used for door
seals. O rings might be.

Used to work with a guy that had had a tiny drip of HF acid on his hand.
He had a hole about 4mm diameter and about 4mm deep in his hand. It
had been like that for 20 years. It never closed up....

Used to work with a guy that had had a tiny drip of HF acid on his hand.
He had a hole about 4mm diameter and about 4mm deep in his hand. It had
been like that for 20 years. It never closed up....

Odd, more likely to be phosphoric acid that had burnt the skin, HF generally
does not burn (or rather does not give a burning sensation) on contact with
skin. It is absorbed into the body, and makes for the bones, HF antidote gel
draws the HF to the surface and neutralises it. If not treated it will work
through the body, removing the calcium from your bones. If treatment is not
forthcoming, you will experience severe pain in the affected bones,
treatment at that stage is usually amputation.

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 19:26:43 +0100, Chewbacca wrote:

Used to work with a guy that had had a tiny drip of HF acid on his hand.
He had a hole about 4mm diameter and about 4mm deep in his hand. It
had been like that for 20 years. It never closed up....

That wouldn't have been HF, as that's almost invisible with skin contact
- one of the hazards of it. It's the calcium in bone that HF goes for.
There are plenty of other fluorine compounds that will produce super
long-lived ulcers though.