Awl--

Our beloved NYC homeys, being fair chemical mavens in their own right, have
discovered this glass-etching paint they use for their g-d grafitti. The
glass in subways and busses and glass busstops, as well as a fair number of
storefronts, are totally disfigured by this stuff, which *absolutely cannot
be removed*, as it actually etches/melts the glass, w/ a fairly opaque white
mess.

What is this stuff?? Where do you get it? The good hardware stores I've
asked at don't have a clue.
I know glass can be etched w/ HF (hydrofluoric) acid, but even that doesn't
do this kind of globby disfiguring, afaict.

I'd like to experiment a little w/ this stuff, to perhaps see what, if
anything, is resistant to it, or perhaps how to remove/reduce some of the
damage.
This stuff must be costing businesses, the city a g-d *fortune*.
Proly has single-handedly increased glass stock prices.

Iny idears/clues?
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll

"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message
...
Awl--

Our beloved NYC homeys, being fair chemical mavens in their own right,
have discovered this glass-etching paint they use for their g-d grafitti.
The glass in subways and busses and glass busstops, as well as a fair
number of storefronts, are totally disfigured by this stuff, which
*absolutely cannot be removed*, as it actually etches/melts the glass, w/
a fairly opaque white mess.

What is this stuff?? Where do you get it? The good hardware stores I've
asked at don't have a clue.

You can buy it at craft and art stores .. also glass shops.


I know glass can be etched w/ HF (hydrofluoric) acid, but even that
doesn't do this kind of globby disfiguring, afaict.

I'd like to experiment a little w/ this stuff, to perhaps see what, if
anything, is resistant to it, or perhaps how to remove/reduce some of the
damage.
This stuff must be costing businesses, the city a g-d *fortune*.
Proly has single-handedly increased glass stock prices.

Iny idears/clues?
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll

"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote:

Awl--

Our beloved NYC homeys, being fair chemical mavens in their own right, have
discovered this glass-etching paint they use for their g-d grafitti. The
glass in subways and busses and glass busstops, as well as a fair number of
storefronts, are totally disfigured by this stuff, which *absolutely cannot
be removed*, as it actually etches/melts the glass, w/ a fairly opaque white
mess.

What is this stuff?? Where do you get it? The good hardware stores I've
asked at don't have a clue.
I know glass can be etched w/ HF (hydrofluoric) acid, but even that doesn't
do this kind of globby disfiguring, afaict.

I'd like to experiment a little w/ this stuff, to perhaps see what, if
anything, is resistant to it, or perhaps how to remove/reduce some of the
damage.
This stuff must be costing businesses, the city a g-d *fortune*.
Proly has single-handedly increased glass stock prices.

Iny idears/clues?
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll

Do they really use actual glass on those things, not some acrylic /
polycarbonate?

Pete C.

"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message
...
Awl--

Our beloved NYC homeys, being fair chemical mavens in their own right,
have discovered this glass-etching paint they use for their g-d grafitti.
The glass in subways and busses and glass busstops, as well as a fair
number of storefronts, are totally disfigured by this stuff, which
*absolutely cannot be removed*, as it actually etches/melts the glass, w/
a fairly opaque white mess.

What is this stuff?? Where do you get it? The good hardware stores I've
asked at don't have a clue.
I know glass can be etched w/ HF (hydrofluoric) acid, but even that
doesn't do this kind of globby disfiguring, afaict.

I'd like to experiment a little w/ this stuff, to perhaps see what, if
anything, is resistant to it, or perhaps how to remove/reduce some of the
damage.
This stuff must be costing businesses, the city a g-d *fortune*.
Proly has single-handedly increased glass stock prices.

Iny idears/clues?
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll


I've never seen anything like that in a spray can but there are many sources
for cream or bottled paint based products

http://www.dickblick.com/zz609/66/

Hopefully their fingers fall off from HF burns

If you google "glass etching spray paint" you get more hits about grafitti
and laws than you get vendors
http://knabe.com/news/releases/2001/august/glass.html
http://www.nograffiti.com/ordinance/San%20Gabriel.htm

Proctologically Violated©® wrote:

I know glass can be etched w/ HF (hydrofluoric) acid, but even that doesn't
do this kind of globby disfiguring, afaict.

The nice thing about HF is, that it will stop those ar*eho*es from
destroying other's goods. Sooner or later. evilgrin


Nick
--
Motor Modelle // Engine Models
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
DIY-DRO // Eigenbau-Digitalanzeige
http://www.yadro.de

Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
Awl--

Our beloved NYC homeys, being fair chemical mavens in their own right, have
discovered this glass-etching paint they use for their g-d grafitti. The
glass in subways and busses and glass busstops, as well as a fair number of
storefronts, are totally disfigured by this stuff, which *absolutely cannot
be removed*, as it actually etches/melts the glass, w/ a fairly opaque white
mess.

What is this stuff?? Where do you get it? The good hardware stores I've
asked at don't have a clue.
I know glass can be etched w/ HF (hydrofluoric) acid, but even that doesn't
do this kind of globby disfiguring, afaict.

I'd like to experiment a little w/ this stuff, to perhaps see what, if
anything, is resistant to it, or perhaps how to remove/reduce some of the
damage.
This stuff must be costing businesses, the city a g-d *fortune*.
Proly has single-handedly increased glass stock prices.

Iny idears/clues?
--
Mr. P.V.'d

We had a spate of this in Denver a few years back, apparently the
perpetrators were caught and put away because there hasn't been any
more incidents that made the papers. IIRC, it's a craft item used for
decorative glass etching and does contain HF, it's a gel or paste, not
paint. Try an artist supply place. There's some type of wax used for
masking-off when used for its legitimate purpose. Coat the glass with
wax, selectively remove in the desired pattern and then etch with the
paste. The stuff has been around for a long time, I've got an
old('20s) scientific glassblowing book describing how to use a special
paste for etching graduations into work. It had to be ordered from
Germany back then, not something just anyone could make up from
household chemicals.

They were hittting big plate glass store windows here. Polycarbonate
might be resistant to it, although there's other issues with using that
for windows. Probably got them for felony property destruction since
those big windows are really spendy. Usually graffitti is a
misdemeanor when they can catch them, the cops made an extra effort in
this instance. Probably used security camera footage, but the news
never said how they were picked up.

Stan

"Proctologically Violated©®" writes:

Awl--

Our beloved NYC homeys, being fair chemical mavens in their own right, have
discovered this glass-etching paint they use for their g-d grafitti. The
glass in subways and busses and glass busstops, as well as a fair number of
storefronts, are totally disfigured by this stuff, which *absolutely cannot
be removed*, as it actually etches/melts the glass, w/ a fairly opaque white
mess.

What is this stuff?? Where do you get it? The good hardware stores I've
asked at don't have a clue.
I know glass can be etched w/ HF (hydrofluoric) acid, but even that doesn't
do this kind of globby disfiguring, afaict.

I'd like to experiment a little w/ this stuff, to perhaps see what, if
anything, is resistant to it, or perhaps how to remove/reduce some of the
damage.
This stuff must be costing businesses, the city a g-d *fortune*.
Proly has single-handedly increased glass stock prices.

Iny idears/clues?

Try he

http://www.cleanlink.com/cp/article.asp?id=2695

They say the etching can be removed with a glass scratch
removal machine. Sounds like a buffing pad.

Once at a car show I was admiring a sample of custom etching on
automotive glass, and was told that it was done with a mixture of
hydroflouric acid and lanolin. I have no idea if this could really work
or not.

Mike

Ammonium Biflouride

Might be able to polish it out with rareox aka cerium oxide.

Craft stores sell it. It is an alkaline not acid. I did some mirrors
with it. pretty safe.
now sold only from locked bins to adults here in san diego

The easiest way to prevent large expensive windows from being trashed is
to apply tint film. Mylar is impervious to this stuff

Proly should be sold to adults only after psychological testing.

I don't know what the ingredients are, but indeed the big art supply houses
have it, mostly under Delta PermEnamel, or some such thing. Comes up pretty
quick w/ google under "glass etching paint". Not sold as a spray, btw.

HF in a cream ought to work, altho from the little I have seen, its etching
is more of a nice light frosting. The cops used to use it, to etch vin
numbers on auto window glass.

This other stuff leaves quite the caked-on unsightly blob.
Imagine if our idiot youth actually put what's left of their minds to
something constructive/productive.
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"daniel peterman" wrote in message
...
Craft stores sell it. It is an alkaline not acid. I did some mirrors
with it. pretty safe.
now sold only from locked bins to adults here in san diego

"Nick Müller" wrote:
Proctologically Violated©® wrote:

I know glass can be etched w/ HF (hydrofluoric) acid, but even that
doesn't do this kind of globby disfiguring, afaict.

The nice thing about HF is, that it will stop those ar*eho*es from
destroying other's goods. Sooner or later. evilgrin

To be more specific, Hydroflouic acid is an extreme posion. Slight exposure
will cause death by removing calcium from the blood stream. Lack of calcium
causes a heart attack. Death is not immediate (a few hours), but it is
irreversible.

HeyBub wrote:

Death is not immediate (a few hours), but it is irreversible.

That's what death is known for. :-)))


Ni-SCNR-ck
--
Motor Modelle // Engine Models
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
DIY-DRO // Eigenbau-Digitalanzeige
http://www.yadro.de

In article , says...
Proly should be sold to adults only after psychological testing.

I don't know what the ingredients are, but indeed the big art supply houses
have it, mostly under Delta PermEnamel, or some such thing. Comes up pretty
quick w/ google under "glass etching paint". Not sold as a spray, btw.

HF in a cream ought to work, altho from the little I have seen, its etching
is more of a nice light frosting. The cops used to use it, to etch vin
numbers on auto window glass.


Maybe this stuff would work:
http://reports.fastenal.com/web/prod...ex?sku=0815220

I had a jug of it when I was in the marine hardware business, but
avoided using it except when absolutely necessary. And that was in the
pre-MSDS days. It contains HF and nitric acids.

Ned Simmons

A little over-stated, I suspect.

People get burned in labs by HF all the time. No big deal, morbidity-wise.

But, HF is a peculiar acid, due to small atomic sizes of the atoms and their
high electronegativities.
HF is in fact a relatively *weak* acid, but the burns/tissue damage that it
can cause are particularly irksome and nasty in part because it is small and
relatively weak.
Here's why:
Because it does not completely dissociate (definition of a weak acid), and
because it is small, it gets absorbed fairly readily into cells as an intact
non-ionic molecule and then dissociates (ie, acts as an acid) *inside the
cell*, causing real ****ty hard-to-heal ulcerations.

These same properties may be quite related to why HF etches glass, but, say,
HCl does not. Proly a really interesting mechanism, whereby the small HF
molecule is able to sort of intercalate between Si and O, and the higher
electronegativity of Fl over O then takes over... mebbe....

Nitric acid is also an interesting/complicated acid (an oxidizing acid), so
I can only imagine the combination of HNO3 and HF that someone mentioned.
FYI, aqua regia, a mixture of HNO3 and HCl, a really noxious combo, is what
dissolves gold, platinum, and proly a couple of other heavy metals.

Or so I learnt.
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
"Nick Müller" wrote:
Proctologically Violated©® wrote:

I know glass can be etched w/ HF (hydrofluoric) acid, but even that
doesn't do this kind of globby disfiguring, afaict.

The nice thing about HF is, that it will stop those ar*eho*es from
destroying other's goods. Sooner or later. evilgrin

To be more specific, Hydroflouic acid is an extreme posion. Slight
exposure will cause death by removing calcium from the blood stream. Lack
of calcium causes a heart attack. Death is not immediate (a few hours),
but it is irreversible.