Hi all,

I have just put down an 80sqm cobbled path and am looking into options to
point/grout it. Wet grouting will take 2 workers 4 days they recon, and at
120£ per day, will be expensive. Have looked into geofix polymeric sand
grouting, but I will need a box of the stuff for every sqm and @ £25 a box,
will be also expensive. I am thinking about going with dry grouting, 1
cement to 3 sand mixed with mortar colorant to make it dark grey.

Looking at washing the cobbles down the day before grouting to get the
cobble base moist, then the next day (if its dry) brushing in the dry mix,
pushing it down firmly with my fingers. Should I be ok just to leave it at
that with no more watering, i.e. will it go hard without spraying it with
water? How long will the hardening take?

Cheers

Steve

"Mr Sandman" wrote:

Hi all,

I have just put down an 80sqm cobbled path and am looking into options to
point/grout it. Wet grouting will take 2 workers 4 days they recon, and at
120£ per day, will be expensive. Have looked into geofix polymeric sand
grouting, but I will need a box of the stuff for every sqm and @ £25 a box,
will be also expensive. I am thinking about going with dry grouting, 1
cement to 3 sand mixed with mortar colorant to make it dark grey.

Looking at washing the cobbles down the day before grouting to get the
cobble base moist, then the next day (if its dry) brushing in the dry mix,
pushing it down firmly with my fingers. Should I be ok just to leave it at
that with no more watering, i.e. will it go hard without spraying it with
water? How long will the hardening take?


There will be some moisture in the sand. That might be enough to make
the grout set but in any case, soon after grouting, I would go over it
with a watering can with a fine head on it - not enough to flood it,
but enough to percolate through the grout and moisten it. There would
be no harm in doing this a second time about 1-2 hours later.

After 4 hours or so, there will have been an initial set, and I would
then wet the setts with a hosepipe and use a stiff broom to clean any
grout off the setts, as there will always be some.

Personally, I would be tempted to include some latex admixture in the
grout mix which would tend to improve its durability, but I would
welcome other opinions, contrary or otherwise!

On 2008-04-21 17:23:10 +0100, "Mr Sandman" said:

Hi all,

I have just put down an 80sqm cobbled path and am looking into options
to point/grout it. Wet grouting will take 2 workers 4 days they recon,
and at 120£ per day, will be expensive. Have looked into geofix
polymeric sand grouting, but I will need a box of the stuff for every
sqm and @ £25 a box, will be also expensive. I am thinking about going
with dry grouting, 1 cement to 3 sand mixed with mortar colorant to
make it dark grey.

Looking at washing the cobbles down the day before grouting to get the
cobble base moist, then the next day (if its dry) brushing in the dry
mix, pushing it down firmly with my fingers. Should I be ok just to
leave it at that with no more watering, i.e. will it go hard without
spraying it with water? How long will the hardening take?

Cheers

Steve

I looked at these options for a drive and paths of handmade bricks,
cobbles and setts.

For most of the area (several hundred square metres) I elected to use
dry coloured sand and not to attempt to point or grout with mortar at
all. This was applied with the bricks perfectly dry and the sand
perfectly dry and brushing it into the gaps in multiple directions.
It filled the gaps, compacted and does not wash out to any noticable
degree.

There are two places where a different technique was needed. One was
a single row of bricks laid lengthwise between the front of a garage
and an Arco (strip) drain running along parallel to the door. The
other was a row of bricks at the top of a section of sloping path.
In both cases, there was a tendency for the sand to wash out in heavy
rain. To address this, I mixed some of the sand at a rate of 5:1
with cement, and again making sure that it was *very* dry and that the
bricks were *very* dry I brushed it into the gaps.

It wasn''t necessary to apply artificial water to this - it soaked it
up from the ground below in a day or two. However, even with this
degree of care, there was still a certain amount of cement on the
surface. This was removed a couple of days later with brick acid,
but it was a time consuming job.

I think that you would be making a rod for your back by attempting to
point an area like this or indeed doing anything substantial with
cement on wet surfaces or even dry ones.

Mr Sandman wrote:

Hi all,

I have just put down an 80sqm cobbled path and am looking into options to
point/grout it. Wet grouting will take 2 workers 4 days they recon, and at
120� per day, will be expensive. Have looked into geofix polymeric sand
grouting, but I will need a box of the stuff for every sqm and @ �25 a box,
will be also expensive. I am thinking about going with dry grouting, 1
cement to 3 sand mixed with mortar colorant to make it dark grey.

Looking at washing the cobbles down the day before grouting to get the
cobble base moist, then the next day (if its dry) brushing in the dry mix,
pushing it down firmly with my fingers. Should I be ok just to leave it at
that with no more watering, i.e. will it go hard without spraying it with
water? How long will the hardening take?

Cheers

Steve

Sand alone is extremely easy, but in time you get weeds & moss.


NT

Mr Sandman wrote:
Hi all,

I have just put down an 80sqm cobbled path and am looking into
options to point/grout it. Wet grouting will take 2 workers 4 days
they recon, and at 120£ per day, will be expensive. Have looked into
geofix polymeric sand grouting, but I will need a box of the stuff
for every sqm and @ £25 a box, will be also expensive. I am thinking
about going with dry grouting, 1 cement to 3 sand mixed with mortar
colorant to make it dark grey.
Looking at washing the cobbles down the day before grouting to get the
cobble base moist, then the next day (if its dry) brushing in the dry
mix, pushing it down firmly with my fingers. Should I be ok just to
leave it at that with no more watering, i.e. will it go hard without
spraying it with water? How long will the hardening take?

Never done it myself, but I have seen Tommy Walsh use this on Ground Force
several times :-) He used it on slabs, not cobbles though.

His method is to pick a dry warm day & use a watering can (no rose) to wet
between the slabs. Then wait for the surface to dry & brush in dry mix
which would soak up the water between the slabs. Very similar to your idea.

Extra watering no matter how careful you are will cause some motar splashing
onto the surface.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 2008-04-21 23:56:28 +0100, said:

Sand alone is extremely easy, but in time you get weeds & moss.


NT

You do with a mortar fill as well, if you allow weeds to grow through,
plus it may well crack it.

It's moderately easy to spray and destroy any weeds.

On 2008-04-22 00:25:39 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

Never done it myself, but I have seen Tommy Walsh use this on Ground Force
several times :-)

He used it on slabs, not cobbles though.

Very different. If slabs are involved, the objective is normally to
make a perfectly filled surface. With cobbles, mortar joints, unless
really toned down in colour tend to dominate and ruin the appearance,
especially if the joints are wide.



His method is to pick a dry warm day & use a watering can (no rose) to wet
between the slabs. Then wait for the surface to dry & brush in dry mix
which would soak up the water between the slabs. Very similar to your idea.

Extra watering no matter how careful you are will cause some motar splashing
onto the surface.

I wouldn't set much store by anything that Tommy Walsh does on TV shows.

Pavingexpert is a rather more reliable source.

http://www.pavingexpert.com/pointing.htm

"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:480d8058@qaanaaq...
On 2008-04-22 00:25:39 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

Never done it myself, but I have seen Tommy Walsh use this on Ground
Force
several times :-)

He used it on slabs, not cobbles though.

Very different. If slabs are involved, the objective is normally to
make a perfectly filled surface. With cobbles, mortar joints, unless
really toned down in colour tend to dominate and ruin the appearance,
especially if the joints are wide.



His method is to pick a dry warm day & use a watering can (no rose) to
wet
between the slabs. Then wait for the surface to dry & brush in dry mix
which would soak up the water between the slabs. Very similar to your
idea.

Extra watering no matter how careful you are will cause some motar
splashing
onto the surface.

I wouldn't set much store by anything that Tommy Walsh does on TV shows.

Pavingexpert is a rather more reliable source.

http://www.pavingexpert.com/pointing.htm




I think all the pro's will probably say......

stay clear of dry pointing. For a proper finish wet point.

On 2008-04-22 07:59:28 +0100, "slider" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:480d8058@qaanaaq...

Pavingexpert is a rather more reliable source.

http://www.pavingexpert.com/pointing.htm




I think all the pro's will probably say......

stay clear of dry pointing. For a proper finish wet point.

... or don't use cement at all with blocks, pavers, setts and cobbles.

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-04-21 17:23:10 +0100, "Mr Sandman" said:

Hi all,

I have just put down an 80sqm cobbled path and am looking into options
to point/grout it. Wet grouting will take 2 workers 4 days they
recon, and at 120£ per day, will be expensive. Have looked into
geofix polymeric sand grouting, but I will need a box of the stuff for
every sqm and @ £25 a box, will be also expensive. I am thinking
about going with dry grouting, 1 cement to 3 sand mixed with mortar
colorant to make it dark grey.

Looking at washing the cobbles down the day before grouting to get the
cobble base moist, then the next day (if its dry) brushing in the dry
mix, pushing it down firmly with my fingers. Should I be ok just to
leave it at that with no more watering, i.e. will it go hard without
spraying it with water? How long will the hardening take?

Cheers

Steve

I looked at these options for a drive and paths of handmade bricks,
cobbles and setts.

For most of the area (several hundred square metres) I elected to use
dry coloured sand and not to attempt to point or grout with mortar at
all. This was applied with the bricks perfectly dry and the sand
perfectly dry and brushing it into the gaps in multiple directions.
It filled the gaps, compacted and does not wash out to any noticable
degree.

There are two places where a different technique was needed. One was
a single row of bricks laid lengthwise between the front of a garage and
an Arco (strip) drain running along parallel to the door. The other
was a row of bricks at the top of a section of sloping path. In both
cases, there was a tendency for the sand to wash out in heavy rain.
To address this, I mixed some of the sand at a rate of 5:1 with cement,
and again making sure that it was *very* dry and that the bricks were
*very* dry I brushed it into the gaps.

It wasn''t necessary to apply artificial water to this - it soaked it up
from the ground below in a day or two. However, even with this degree
of care, there was still a certain amount of cement on the surface.
This was removed a couple of days later with brick acid, but it was a
time consuming job.

I think that you would be making a rod for your back by attempting to
point an area like this or indeed doing anything substantial with cement
on wet surfaces or even dry ones.



I mostly agree. Use dry mix, and if it has cement in it, it will set.
Cement absorbs atmospheric moisture and ets off in a few weeks as
anyone who has left an open bag of cement in a garage will testify.

Once it has more or less set, use a stiff broom and brick acid and a
hose to wash off the surplus.

On Apr 21, 5:23*pm, "Mr Sandman" wrote:
Hi all,

I have just put down an 80sqm cobbled path and am looking into options to
point/grout it. *Wet grouting will take 2 workers 4 days they recon, and at
120£ per day, will be expensive. *Have looked into geofix polymeric sand
grouting, but I will need a box of the stuff for every sqm and @ £25 a box,
will be also expensive. *I am thinking about going with dry grouting, 1
cement to 3 sand mixed with mortar colorant to make it dark grey.

Looking at washing the cobbles down the day before grouting to get the
cobble base moist, then the next day (if its dry) brushing in the dry mix,
pushing it down firmly with my fingers. *Should I be ok just to leave it at
that with no more watering, i.e. will it go hard without spraying it with
water? *How long will the hardening take?

Cheers

Steve

Hi,

What about lime insead of cement mortar? Would allow a little movement
instead of cracking.

Might not be durable enough tho.

cheers,
Pete.