possibly OT but I intend to DIY the follow-on system so:-

Anyone know what I should expect to pay for a laboratory drinking
water anaylsis on our spring water? Seems we have acidity and Iron at
the least........
NB We're in West Yorks.

Thanks
Jim

HI Jim

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 05:15:08 -0700 (PDT), jim
wrote:

possibly OT but I intend to DIY the follow-on system so:-

Anyone know what I should expect to pay for a laboratory drinking
water anaylsis on our spring water? Seems we have acidity and Iron at
the least........
NB We're in West Yorks.


When we lived in the UK (Suffolk) our 'general' test, which covered
nitrates, micro-organisms, and a few other things (can't remember
now..) was between 100 and 200 pounds. I had a tidy out last month and
ditched all the records & reports...

Thing is - the lab will test for whatever you ask them to test for
(and charge accordingly)..... and it's knowing what you want tested
that's half the battle

Strictly speaking, you'd want to re-test after installing whatever
treatment you decide on, to prove to your satisfaction that your water
is now OK.

We had a defective UV filter on our UK installation, which only showed
up as an unacceptable high reading on 'bugs' (?cryptosporidium?) - and
so we did a lab re-test after installing a new filter.

Something relatively simple like pH you can test yourself - we can
tell when our dosing chemical has run out because the dreaded 'blue
ring' reappears in the bath !

I understand that you don;t want to spend more than you have to -
but I wouldn't want to take chances with someting as fundamental as
drinking water supply. If / when you come to sell the property you can
expect that certs of analysis will be asked for g

After all, the water's basically 'free' - so it's worth spending a
little to make sure that you're doing the necessary treatments.

Just my two-pennorth g
Adrian

"jim" wrote in message
...
possibly OT but I intend to DIY the follow-on system so:-

Anyone know what I should expect to pay for a laboratory drinking
water anaylsis on our spring water? Seems we have acidity and Iron at
the least........
NB We're in West Yorks.


We're going to have to get our private water supply tested by the local
authority soon, as we're going to be taking paying guests.

I looked a few months ago and ISTR that my local authority charges around
£70 for this test. I'm sure the test won't be terribly fancy, but I'm not
bothered about getting it tested for myself - only to meet the B&B
requirement.

We have a well, which has been used for many years apparently without
problems - there is no treatment of the water (other than that which the
rock and soil provides). I believe that using spring water/surface water is
a bit different (and potentially dodgier) so I probably would be interested
in getting a better test if that's what I was using.

jim wrote:
possibly OT but I intend to DIY the follow-on system so:-

Anyone know what I should expect to pay for a laboratory drinking
water anaylsis on our spring water? Seems we have acidity and Iron at
the least........
NB We're in West Yorks.

Spring water is different from well water. Springs can be shallow and
subject to variable quality as a result. This is particularly relevant for
bugs, coliforms and E Coli are the standard indicator organisms. A one-off
test on a spring is just that - the water quality was what it was at the
time of the test.

if the spring is shallow beneath grazing land then bugs from cattle and
sheep could be an issue.

Also, looking at the chemical aspects, nitrates could be an issue.pH is
usually undertaken as a standard test. Really more details of the situation
are required before one can recommend a suite of analysis. Only then can the
cost be estimated.

I can't recall now whether it was W Yorks or S Yorks EHOs that used to be
quite well informed about the quality of private supplies in their areas.
Has your supply ever been tested by the local Authority EHO. They are
responsible for this.

On 18 Mar, 23:11, "Clot" wrote:
jim wrote:
possibly OT but I intend to DIY the follow-on system so:-

Anyone know what I should expect to pay for a laboratory drinking
water anaylsis on our spring water? Seems we have acidity and Iron at
the least........
NB We're in West Yorks.

Spring water is different from well water. Springs can be shallow and
subject to variable quality as a result. This is particularly relevant for
bugs, coliforms and E Coli are the standard indicator organisms. A one-off
test on a spring is just that - the water quality was what it was at the
time of the test.

if the spring is shallow beneath grazing land then bugs from cattle and
sheep could be an issue.

Also, looking at the chemical aspects, nitrates could be an issue.pH is
usually undertaken as a standard test. Really more details of the situation
are required before one can recommend a suite of analysis. Only then can the
cost be estimated.

I can't recall now whether it was W Yorks or S Yorks EHOs that used to be
quite well informed about the quality of private supplies in their areas.
Has your supply ever been tested by the local Authority EHO. They are
responsible for this.

sorry for delay - been away!

Well, (no pun intended) the land above the spring is farmland with a
couple of horses, further up are some cows on rotation with other
fields, no chemical fertilising that I am aware of, and that's about
it. Of course the water may equally well come from anywhere in the
hillside..and the story would be the same as reagrds livestock and
land use - so your comments on bugs are apt.

We already have a UV system and sediment filters so hopefully (as long
as I keep changing the tube) that aspect is covered.

Locally, iron is very common in springs and streams, some very bright
orange out-flows can be seen around the valley usually from old mine
workings here and there - (clay, coal). In the primary tanks up the
hill above us, there is always a layer of orangey/brown sediment
coating the tanks and pipes, it is easily disturbed and from my
researches I would expect that to be soluble iron salts that have
reacted with aeration of the water and the resulting insoluble salts
have dropped out of solution. Our sediment filters trap a lot of this
and at rainy times of the year our water can taste a bit metallic and
in flood can be a little hazy too. We generally switch to (previously)
bottled until after a day or so all is clearer and taste improves once
again.

As regards testing by EHO, not in the 7 years we have been here altho
the spring does have a number as mentioned in the deeds. When we
bought it we had a respected water treatment firm round who did a
"briefcase" test, he was surprised at the quality and sold us only the
UV and sediment filters! House is 200+yrs old and has always been
supplied by the same spring, until we came there was one 'candle'
filter !!

The apparent pH issue (blue rings in baths and SWMBO's highlights
turning green in bath) is the one I am hoping to address in due course
now.

Hope that illuminates things enough..

Thanks to all for comments so far
Jim

jim wrote:
On 18 Mar, 23:11, "Clot" wrote:
jim wrote:
possibly OT but I intend to DIY the follow-on system so:-

Anyone know what I should expect to pay for a laboratory drinking
water anaylsis on our spring water? Seems we have acidity and Iron
at the least........
NB We're in West Yorks.

Spring water is different from well water. Springs can be shallow and
subject to variable quality as a result. This is particularly
relevant for bugs, coliforms and E Coli are the standard indicator
organisms. A one-off test on a spring is just that - the water
quality was what it was at the time of the test.

if the spring is shallow beneath grazing land then bugs from cattle
and sheep could be an issue.

Also, looking at the chemical aspects, nitrates could be an issue.pH
is usually undertaken as a standard test. Really more details of the
situation are required before one can recommend a suite of analysis.
Only then can the cost be estimated.

I can't recall now whether it was W Yorks or S Yorks EHOs that used
to be quite well informed about the quality of private supplies in
their areas. Has your supply ever been tested by the local Authority
EHO. They are responsible for this.

sorry for delay - been away!

Well, (no pun intended) the land above the spring is farmland with a
couple of horses, further up are some cows on rotation with other
fields, no chemical fertilising that I am aware of, and that's about
it. Of course the water may equally well come from anywhere in the
hillside..and the story would be the same as reagrds livestock and
land use - so your comments on bugs are apt.

We already have a UV system and sediment filters so hopefully (as long
as I keep changing the tube) that aspect is covered.


Keep changing the tube - that is important!


Locally, iron is very common in springs and streams, some very bright
orange out-flows can be seen around the valley usually from old mine
workings here and there - (clay, coal). In the primary tanks up the
hill above us, there is always a layer of orangey/brown sediment
coating the tanks and pipes, it is easily disturbed and from my
researches I would expect that to be soluble iron salts that have
reacted with aeration of the water and the resulting insoluble salts
have dropped out of solution. Our sediment filters trap a lot of this
and at rainy times of the year our water can taste a bit metallic and
in flood can be a little hazy too. We generally switch to (previously)
bottled until after a day or so all is clearer and taste improves once
again.

Aah, just as I suspected. I used to work for a water utility. Years ago, it
had quite a few springwater sources serving rural communities. Due to the
variation in water quality with the seasons and weather, we closed these
sources down to protect consumers from the risk of being served with
bacterially unsatisfactory water. Despite the use of the uv tube, under the
adverse weather conditions you describe I think that you could be at risk
and your precaution in using bottled water at those times is wellfounded.

Also, due to the cessation of pumping out many of the former mines,
groundwater levels are rising and quality of water could be compromised. In
some areas, the Coal Authority is now putting in treatment systems to remove
the iron prior to water being discharged to surafce water, (you could look
this up on their website). I'm sure I saw something there about this - could
have been in an annual report.

You would most likely find out if iron is an issue in the house by
discoloration of clothing in the washing machine!

As regards testing by EHO, not in the 7 years we have been here altho
the spring does have a number as mentioned in the deeds. When we
bought it we had a respected water treatment firm round who did a
"briefcase" test, he was surprised at the quality and sold us only the
UV and sediment filters! House is 200+yrs old and has always been
supplied by the same spring, until we came there was one 'candle'
filter !!

I think it could be advisable to have a word with the EHO - again try their
website - probably under Environmental Health. They are charged with the
responsibility of monitoring private supplies like this. Are there others
nearby using springwater - the EHOs should know and again should know if
there are issues due to any monitoring they carry out or queries that have
been raised.

The apparent pH issue (blue rings in baths and SWMBO's highlights
turning green in bath) is the one I am hoping to address in due course
now.

Scaling in the bath could actually be copper - being dissolved in the hot
water cylinder tank.



Hope this helps,

Clot

On 5 Apr, 18:15, "Clot" wrote:
jim wrote:
On 18 Mar, 23:11, "Clot" wrote:
jim wrote:
possibly OT but I intend to DIY the follow-on system so:-

Anyone know what I should expect to pay for a laboratory drinking
water anaylsis on our spring water? Seems we have acidity and Iron
at the least........
NB We're in West Yorks.

Spring water is different from well water. Springs can be shallow and
subject to variable quality as a result. This is particularly
relevant for bugs, coliforms and E Coli are the standard indicator
organisms. A one-off test on a spring is just that - the water
quality was what it was at the time of the test.

if the spring is shallow beneath grazing land then bugs from cattle
and sheep could be an issue.

Also, looking at the chemical aspects, nitrates could be an issue.pH
is usually undertaken as a standard test. Really more details of the
situation are required before one can recommend a suite of analysis.
Only then can the cost be estimated.

I can't recall now whether it was W Yorks or S Yorks EHOs that used
to be quite well informed about the quality of private supplies in
their areas. Has your supply ever been tested by the local Authority
EHO. They are responsible for this.

sorry for delay - been away!

Well, (no pun intended) the land above the spring is farmland with a
couple of horses, further up are some cows on rotation with other
fields, no chemical fertilising that I am aware of, and that's about
it. Of course the water may equally well come from anywhere in the
hillside..and the story would be the same as reagrds livestock and
land use - so your comments on bugs are apt.

We already have a UV system and sediment filters so hopefully (as long
as I keep changing the tube) that aspect is covered.

Keep changing the tube - that is important!



Locally, iron is very common in springs and streams, some very bright
orange out-flows can be seen around the valley usually from old mine
workings here and there - (clay, coal). In the primary tanks up the
hill above us, there is always a layer of orangey/brown sediment
coating the tanks and pipes, it is easily disturbed and from my
researches I would expect that to be soluble iron salts that have
reacted with aeration of the water and the resulting insoluble salts
have dropped out of solution. Our sediment filters trap a lot of this
and at rainy times of the year our water can taste a bit metallic and
in flood can be a little hazy too. We generally switch to (previously)
bottled until after a day or so all is clearer and taste improves once
again.

Aah, just as I suspected. I used to work for a water utility. Years ago, it
had quite a few springwater sources serving rural communities. Due to the
variation in water quality with the seasons and weather, we closed these
sources down to protect consumers from the risk of being served with
bacterially unsatisfactory water. Despite the use of the uv tube, under the
adverse weather conditions you describe I think that you could be at risk
and your precaution in using bottled water at those times is wellfounded.

Also, due to the cessation of pumping out many of the former mines,
groundwater levels are rising and quality of water could be compromised. In
some areas, the Coal Authority is now putting in treatment systems to remove
the iron prior to water being discharged to surafce water, (you could look
this up on their website). I'm sure I saw something there about this - could
have been in an annual report.

You would most likely find out if iron is an issue in the house by
discoloration of clothing in the washing machine!



As regards testing by EHO, not in the 7 years we have been here altho
the spring does have a number as mentioned in the deeds. When we
bought it we had a respected water treatment firm round who did a
"briefcase" test, he was surprised at the quality and sold us only the
UV and sediment filters! House is 200+yrs old and has always been
supplied by the same spring, until we came there was one 'candle'
filter !!

I think it could be advisable to have a word with the EHO - again try their
website - probably under Environmental Health. They are charged with the
responsibility of monitoring private supplies like this. Are there others
nearby using springwater - the EHOs should know and again should know if
there are issues due to any monitoring they carry out or queries that have
been raised.



The apparent pH issue (blue rings in baths and SWMBO's highlights
turning green in bath) is the one I am hoping to address in due course
now.

Scaling in the bath could actually be copper - being dissolved in the hot
water cylinder tank.



Hope this helps,

Clot

thanks that is all very interesting.

especially
You would most likely find out if iron is an issue in the house by
discoloration of clothing in the washing machine!

as we have never had any bother with discoloured washing.....perhaps
the iron issue is not as bad as I expected..

Blue rings in bath & green highlighted hair:-
So far I am fairly certain the cause is copper from the pipes
dissolving in the periodically acidic water, especially exacerbated by
the heat in the (copper) DHW cylinder - could it be anything else?

thanks
Jim

jim wrote:
On 5 Apr, 18:15, "Clot" wrote:
jim wrote:
On 18 Mar, 23:11, "Clot" wrote:
jim wrote:
possibly OT but I intend to DIY the follow-on system so:-

Anyone know what I should expect to pay for a laboratory drinking
water anaylsis on our spring water? Seems we have acidity and Iron
at the least........
NB We're in West Yorks.

Spring water is different from well water. Springs can be shallow
and subject to variable quality as a result. This is particularly
relevant for bugs, coliforms and E Coli are the standard indicator
organisms. A one-off test on a spring is just that - the water
quality was what it was at the time of the test.

if the spring is shallow beneath grazing land then bugs from cattle
and sheep could be an issue.

Also, looking at the chemical aspects, nitrates could be an
issue.pH is usually undertaken as a standard test. Really more
details of the situation are required before one can recommend a
suite of analysis. Only then can the cost be estimated.

I can't recall now whether it was W Yorks or S Yorks EHOs that used
to be quite well informed about the quality of private supplies in
their areas. Has your supply ever been tested by the local
Authority EHO. They are responsible for this.

sorry for delay - been away!

Well, (no pun intended) the land above the spring is farmland with a
couple of horses, further up are some cows on rotation with other
fields, no chemical fertilising that I am aware of, and that's about
it. Of course the water may equally well come from anywhere in the
hillside..and the story would be the same as reagrds livestock and
land use - so your comments on bugs are apt.

We already have a UV system and sediment filters so hopefully (as
long as I keep changing the tube) that aspect is covered.

Keep changing the tube - that is important!



Locally, iron is very common in springs and streams, some very
bright orange out-flows can be seen around the valley usually from
old mine workings here and there - (clay, coal). In the primary
tanks up the hill above us, there is always a layer of
orangey/brown sediment coating the tanks and pipes, it is easily
disturbed and from my researches I would expect that to be soluble
iron salts that have reacted with aeration of the water and the
resulting insoluble salts have dropped out of solution. Our
sediment filters trap a lot of this and at rainy times of the year
our water can taste a bit metallic and in flood can be a little
hazy too. We generally switch to (previously) bottled until after a
day or so all is clearer and taste improves once again.

Aah, just as I suspected. I used to work for a water utility. Years
ago, it had quite a few springwater sources serving rural
communities. Due to the variation in water quality with the seasons
and weather, we closed these sources down to protect consumers from
the risk of being served with bacterially unsatisfactory water.
Despite the use of the uv tube, under the adverse weather conditions
you describe I think that you could be at risk and your precaution
in using bottled water at those times is wellfounded.

Also, due to the cessation of pumping out many of the former mines,
groundwater levels are rising and quality of water could be
compromised. In some areas, the Coal Authority is now putting in
treatment systems to remove the iron prior to water being discharged
to surafce water, (you could look this up on their website). I'm
sure I saw something there about this - could have been in an annual
report.

You would most likely find out if iron is an issue in the house by
discoloration of clothing in the washing machine!



As regards testing by EHO, not in the 7 years we have been here
altho the spring does have a number as mentioned in the deeds. When
we bought it we had a respected water treatment firm round who did a
"briefcase" test, he was surprised at the quality and sold us only
the UV and sediment filters! House is 200+yrs old and has always
been supplied by the same spring, until we came there was one
'candle' filter !!

I think it could be advisable to have a word with the EHO - again
try their website - probably under Environmental Health. They are
charged with the responsibility of monitoring private supplies like
this. Are there others nearby using springwater - the EHOs should
know and again should know if there are issues due to any monitoring
they carry out or queries that have been raised.



The apparent pH issue (blue rings in baths and SWMBO's highlights
turning green in bath) is the one I am hoping to address in due
course now.

Scaling in the bath could actually be copper - being dissolved in
the hot water cylinder tank.



Hope this helps,

Clot

thanks that is all very interesting.

especially
You would most likely find out if iron is an issue in the house by
discoloration of clothing in the washing machine!

as we have never had any bother with discoloured washing.....perhaps
the iron issue is not as bad as I expected..

Blue rings in bath & green highlighted hair:-
So far I am fairly certain the cause is copper from the pipes
dissolving in the periodically acidic water, especially exacerbated by
the heat in the (copper) DHW cylinder - could it be anything else?


It is the most likely cause.

Regards

Clot.

PS. Feel free to ask, I will help if I can.

On 6 Apr, 21:53, "Clot" wrote:
jim wrote:
On 5 Apr, 18:15, "Clot" wrote:
jim wrote:
On 18 Mar, 23:11, "Clot" wrote:
jim wrote:
possibly OT but I intend to DIY the follow-on system so:-

Anyone know what I should expect to pay for a laboratory drinking
water anaylsis on our spring water? Seems we have acidity and Iron
at the least........
NB We're in West Yorks.

Spring water is different from well water. Springs can be shallow
and subject to variable quality as a result. This is particularly
relevant for bugs, coliforms and E Coli are the standard indicator
organisms. A one-off test on a spring is just that - the water
quality was what it was at the time of the test.

if the spring is shallow beneath grazing land then bugs from cattle
and sheep could be an issue.

Also, looking at the chemical aspects, nitrates could be an
issue.pH is usually undertaken as a standard test. Really more
details of the situation are required before one can recommend a
suite of analysis. Only then can the cost be estimated.

I can't recall now whether it was W Yorks or S Yorks EHOs that used
to be quite well informed about the quality of private supplies in
their areas. Has your supply ever been tested by the local
Authority EHO. They are responsible for this.

sorry for delay - been away!

Well, (no pun intended) the land above the spring is farmland with a
couple of horses, further up are some cows on rotation with other
fields, no chemical fertilising that I am aware of, and that's about
it. Of course the water may equally well come from anywhere in the
hillside..and the story would be the same as reagrds livestock and
land use - so your comments on bugs are apt.

We already have a UV system and sediment filters so hopefully (as
long as I keep changing the tube) that aspect is covered.

Keep changing the tube - that is important!

Locally, iron is very common in springs and streams, some very
bright orange out-flows can be seen around the valley usually from
old mine workings here and there - (clay, coal). In the primary
tanks up the hill above us, there is always a layer of
orangey/brown sediment coating the tanks and pipes, it is easily
disturbed and from my researches I would expect that to be soluble
iron salts that have reacted with aeration of the water and the
resulting insoluble salts have dropped out of solution. Our
sediment filters trap a lot of this and at rainy times of the year
our water can taste a bit metallic and in flood can be a little
hazy too. We generally switch to (previously) bottled until after a
day or so all is clearer and taste improves once again.

Aah, just as I suspected. I used to work for a water utility. Years
ago, it had quite a few springwater sources serving rural
communities. Due to the variation in water quality with the seasons
and weather, we closed these sources down to protect consumers from
the risk of being served with bacterially unsatisfactory water.
Despite the use of the uv tube, under the adverse weather conditions
you describe I think that you could be at risk and your precaution
in using bottled water at those times is wellfounded.

Also, due to the cessation of pumping out many of the former mines,
groundwater levels are rising and quality of water could be
compromised. In some areas, the Coal Authority is now putting in
treatment systems to remove the iron prior to water being discharged
to surafce water, (you could look this up on their website). I'm
sure I saw something there about this - could have been in an annual
report.

You would most likely find out if iron is an issue in the house by
discoloration of clothing in the washing machine!

As regards testing by EHO, not in the 7 years we have been here
altho the spring does have a number as mentioned in the deeds. When
we bought it we had a respected water treatment firm round who did a
"briefcase" test, he was surprised at the quality and sold us only
the UV and sediment filters! House is 200+yrs old and has always
been supplied by the same spring, until we came there was one
'candle' filter !!

I think it could be advisable to have a word with the EHO - again
try their website - probably under Environmental Health. They are
charged with the responsibility of monitoring private supplies like
this. Are there others nearby using springwater - the EHOs should
know and again should know if there are issues due to any monitoring
they carry out or queries that have been raised.

The apparent pH issue (blue rings in baths and SWMBO's highlights
turning green in bath) is the one I am hoping to address in due
course now.

Scaling in the bath could actually be copper - being dissolved in
the hot water cylinder tank.

Hope this helps,

Clot

thanks that is all very interesting.

especially
You would most likely find out if iron is an issue in the house by
discoloration of clothing in the washing machine!

as we have never had any bother with discoloured washing.....perhaps
the iron issue is not as bad as I expected..

Blue rings in bath & green highlighted hair:-
So far I am fairly certain the cause is copper from the pipes
dissolving in the periodically acidic water, especially exacerbated by
the heat in the (copper) DHW cylinder - could it be anything else?

It is the most likely cause.

Regards

Clot.

PS. Feel free to ask, I will help if I can.

thanks:-

earlier you said:-
Has your supply ever been tested by the local Authority EHO. They are
responsible for this.

By "responsible" can you clarify please?

I gather I have to pay them for any and all tests and they can
*advise* me to make improvements as necessary - can they enforce and
potentially leave me with a "situation"?

ta
Jim

jim wrote:
On 6 Apr, 21:53, "Clot" wrote:
jim wrote:
On 5 Apr, 18:15, "Clot" wrote:
jim wrote:
On 18 Mar, 23:11, "Clot" wrote:
jim wrote:
possibly OT but I intend to DIY the follow-on system so:-

Anyone know what I should expect to pay for a laboratory
drinking water anaylsis on our spring water? Seems we have
acidity and Iron at the least........
NB We're in West Yorks.

Spring water is different from well water. Springs can be shallow
and subject to variable quality as a result. This is particularly
relevant for bugs, coliforms and E Coli are the standard
indicator organisms. A one-off test on a spring is just that -
the water quality was what it was at the time of the test.

if the spring is shallow beneath grazing land then bugs from
cattle and sheep could be an issue.

Also, looking at the chemical aspects, nitrates could be an
issue.pH is usually undertaken as a standard test. Really more
details of the situation are required before one can recommend a
suite of analysis. Only then can the cost be estimated.

I can't recall now whether it was W Yorks or S Yorks EHOs that
used to be quite well informed about the quality of private
supplies in their areas. Has your supply ever been tested by the
local Authority EHO. They are responsible for this.

sorry for delay - been away!

Well, (no pun intended) the land above the spring is farmland
with a couple of horses, further up are some cows on rotation
with other fields, no chemical fertilising that I am aware of,
and that's about it. Of course the water may equally well come
from anywhere in the hillside..and the story would be the same as
reagrds livestock and land use - so your comments on bugs are apt.

We already have a UV system and sediment filters so hopefully (as
long as I keep changing the tube) that aspect is covered.

Keep changing the tube - that is important!

Locally, iron is very common in springs and streams, some very
bright orange out-flows can be seen around the valley usually from
old mine workings here and there - (clay, coal). In the primary
tanks up the hill above us, there is always a layer of
orangey/brown sediment coating the tanks and pipes, it is easily
disturbed and from my researches I would expect that to be soluble
iron salts that have reacted with aeration of the water and the
resulting insoluble salts have dropped out of solution. Our
sediment filters trap a lot of this and at rainy times of the year
our water can taste a bit metallic and in flood can be a little
hazy too. We generally switch to (previously) bottled until after
a day or so all is clearer and taste improves once again.

Aah, just as I suspected. I used to work for a water utility. Years
ago, it had quite a few springwater sources serving rural
communities. Due to the variation in water quality with the seasons
and weather, we closed these sources down to protect consumers from
the risk of being served with bacterially unsatisfactory water.
Despite the use of the uv tube, under the adverse weather
conditions you describe I think that you could be at risk and your
precaution in using bottled water at those times is wellfounded.

Also, due to the cessation of pumping out many of the former mines,
groundwater levels are rising and quality of water could be
compromised. In some areas, the Coal Authority is now putting in
treatment systems to remove the iron prior to water being
discharged to surafce water, (you could look this up on their
website). I'm sure I saw something there about this - could have
been in an annual report.

You would most likely find out if iron is an issue in the house by
discoloration of clothing in the washing machine!

As regards testing by EHO, not in the 7 years we have been here
altho the spring does have a number as mentioned in the deeds.
When we bought it we had a respected water treatment firm round
who did a "briefcase" test, he was surprised at the quality and
sold us only the UV and sediment filters! House is 200+yrs old
and has always been supplied by the same spring, until we came
there was one 'candle' filter !!

I think it could be advisable to have a word with the EHO - again
try their website - probably under Environmental Health. They are
charged with the responsibility of monitoring private supplies like
this. Are there others nearby using springwater - the EHOs should
know and again should know if there are issues due to any
monitoring they carry out or queries that have been raised.

The apparent pH issue (blue rings in baths and SWMBO's highlights
turning green in bath) is the one I am hoping to address in due
course now.

Scaling in the bath could actually be copper - being dissolved in
the hot water cylinder tank.

Hope this helps,

Clot

thanks that is all very interesting.

especially
You would most likely find out if iron is an issue in the house by
discoloration of clothing in the washing machine!

as we have never had any bother with discoloured washing.....perhaps
the iron issue is not as bad as I expected..

Blue rings in bath & green highlighted hair:-
So far I am fairly certain the cause is copper from the pipes
dissolving in the periodically acidic water, especially exacerbated
by the heat in the (copper) DHW cylinder - could it be anything
else?

It is the most likely cause.

Regards

Clot.

PS. Feel free to ask, I will help if I can.

thanks:-

earlier you said:-
Has your supply ever been tested by the local Authority EHO. They are
responsible for this.

By "responsible" can you clarify please?

I gather I have to pay them for any and all tests and they can
*advise* me to make improvements as necessary - can they enforce and
potentially leave me with a "situation"?

I am uncertain about their powers of enforcement, which I suspect you are
concerned about (as I would be), but your primary concern is about you and
yours health? Here's a lead
http://www.kirklees.gov.uk/answers/n...on/water.shtml

You have "number withheld" or could set it and call them.

As I understand the legislation re private supplies for potable supplies,
the local authority is obliged to undertake sampling - at their expense, at
a limited frequency.

I've not checked the full extent of the legislation regarding private
supplies, but I do know from experience that LAs are very wary of their
powers in this area, though those in the S Yorks area are more informed than
others in England.

I was wringing my hands whilst thinking before prodding the keyboard. I
appreciate your situation.

jim wrote:
On 6 Apr, 21:53, "Clot" wrote:
jim wrote:
On 5 Apr, 18:15, "Clot" wrote:
jim wrote:
On 18 Mar, 23:11, "Clot" wrote:
jim wrote:
possibly OT but I intend to DIY the follow-on system so:-

Anyone know what I should expect to pay for a laboratory
drinking water anaylsis on our spring water? Seems we have
acidity and Iron at the least........
NB We're in West Yorks.

Spring water is different from well water. Springs can be shallow
and subject to variable quality as a result. This is particularly
relevant for bugs, coliforms and E Coli are the standard
indicator organisms. A one-off test on a spring is just that -
the water quality was what it was at the time of the test.

if the spring is shallow beneath grazing land then bugs from
cattle and sheep could be an issue.

Also, looking at the chemical aspects, nitrates could be an
issue.pH is usually undertaken as a standard test. Really more
details of the situation are required before one can recommend a
suite of analysis. Only then can the cost be estimated.

I can't recall now whether it was W Yorks or S Yorks EHOs that
used to be quite well informed about the quality of private
supplies in their areas. Has your supply ever been tested by the
local Authority EHO. They are responsible for this.

sorry for delay - been away!

Well, (no pun intended) the land above the spring is farmland
with a couple of horses, further up are some cows on rotation
with other fields, no chemical fertilising that I am aware of,
and that's about it. Of course the water may equally well come
from anywhere in the hillside..and the story would be the same as
reagrds livestock and land use - so your comments on bugs are apt.

We already have a UV system and sediment filters so hopefully (as
long as I keep changing the tube) that aspect is covered.

Keep changing the tube - that is important!

Locally, iron is very common in springs and streams, some very
bright orange out-flows can be seen around the valley usually from
old mine workings here and there - (clay, coal). In the primary
tanks up the hill above us, there is always a layer of
orangey/brown sediment coating the tanks and pipes, it is easily
disturbed and from my researches I would expect that to be soluble
iron salts that have reacted with aeration of the water and the
resulting insoluble salts have dropped out of solution. Our
sediment filters trap a lot of this and at rainy times of the year
our water can taste a bit metallic and in flood can be a little
hazy too. We generally switch to (previously) bottled until after
a day or so all is clearer and taste improves once again.

Aah, just as I suspected. I used to work for a water utility. Years
ago, it had quite a few springwater sources serving rural
communities. Due to the variation in water quality with the seasons
and weather, we closed these sources down to protect consumers from
the risk of being served with bacterially unsatisfactory water.
Despite the use of the uv tube, under the adverse weather
conditions you describe I think that you could be at risk and your
precaution in using bottled water at those times is wellfounded.

Also, due to the cessation of pumping out many of the former mines,
groundwater levels are rising and quality of water could be
compromised. In some areas, the Coal Authority is now putting in
treatment systems to remove the iron prior to water being
discharged to surafce water, (you could look this up on their
website). I'm sure I saw something there about this - could have
been in an annual report.

You would most likely find out if iron is an issue in the house by
discoloration of clothing in the washing machine!

As regards testing by EHO, not in the 7 years we have been here
altho the spring does have a number as mentioned in the deeds.
When we bought it we had a respected water treatment firm round
who did a "briefcase" test, he was surprised at the quality and
sold us only the UV and sediment filters! House is 200+yrs old
and has always been supplied by the same spring, until we came
there was one 'candle' filter !!

I think it could be advisable to have a word with the EHO - again
try their website - probably under Environmental Health. They are
charged with the responsibility of monitoring private supplies like
this. Are there others nearby using springwater - the EHOs should
know and again should know if there are issues due to any
monitoring they carry out or queries that have been raised.

The apparent pH issue (blue rings in baths and SWMBO's highlights
turning green in bath) is the one I am hoping to address in due
course now.

Scaling in the bath could actually be copper - being dissolved in
the hot water cylinder tank.

Hope this helps,

Clot

thanks that is all very interesting.

especially
You would most likely find out if iron is an issue in the house by
discoloration of clothing in the washing machine!

as we have never had any bother with discoloured washing.....perhaps
the iron issue is not as bad as I expected..

Blue rings in bath & green highlighted hair:-
So far I am fairly certain the cause is copper from the pipes
dissolving in the periodically acidic water, especially exacerbated
by the heat in the (copper) DHW cylinder - could it be anything
else?

It is the most likely cause.

Regards

Clot.

PS. Feel free to ask, I will help if I can.

thanks:-

earlier you said:-
Has your supply ever been tested by the local Authority EHO. They are
responsible for this.

By "responsible" can you clarify please?

I gather I have to pay them for any and all tests and they can
*advise* me to make improvements as necessary - can they enforce and
potentially leave me with a "situation"?

Responding to another poster got me thinking of your position. The link
below outlines the current legislation and powers of the local authorities
with regard to such supplies.

HTH
http://www.privatewatersupplies.gov....s/SEC%2009.pdf

On 18 Apr, 21:49, "Clot" wrote:
jim wrote:
On 6 Apr, 21:53, "Clot" wrote:
jim wrote:
On 5 Apr, 18:15, "Clot" wrote:
jim wrote:
On 18 Mar, 23:11, "Clot" wrote:
jim wrote:
possibly OT but I intend to DIY the follow-on system so:-

Anyone know what I should expect to pay for a laboratory
drinking water anaylsis on our spring water? Seems we have
acidity and Iron at the least........
NB We're in West Yorks.

Spring water is different from well water. Springs can be shallow
and subject to variable quality as a result. This is particularly
relevant for bugs, coliforms and E Coli are the standard
indicator organisms. A one-off test on a spring is just that -
the water quality was what it was at the time of the test.

if the spring is shallow beneath grazing land then bugs from
cattle and sheep could be an issue.

Also, looking at the chemical aspects, nitrates could be an
issue.pH is usually undertaken as a standard test. Really more
details of the situation are required before one can recommend a
suite of analysis. Only then can the cost be estimated.

I can't recall now whether it was W Yorks or S Yorks EHOs that
used to be quite well informed about the quality of private
supplies in their areas. Has your supply ever been tested by the
local Authority EHO. They are responsible for this.

sorry for delay - been away!

Well, (no pun intended) the land above the spring is farmland
with a couple of horses, further up are some cows on rotation
with other fields, no chemical fertilising that I am aware of,
and that's about it. Of course the water may equally well come
from anywhere in the hillside..and the story would be the same as
reagrds livestock and land use - so your comments on bugs are apt.

We already have a UV system and sediment filters so hopefully (as
long as I keep changing the tube) that aspect is covered.

Keep changing the tube - that is important!

Locally, iron is very common in springs and streams, some very
bright orange out-flows can be seen around the valley usually from
old mine workings here and there - (clay, coal). In the primary
tanks up the hill above us, there is always a layer of
orangey/brown sediment coating the tanks and pipes, it is easily
disturbed and from my researches I would expect that to be soluble
iron salts that have reacted with aeration of the water and the
resulting insoluble salts have dropped out of solution. Our
sediment filters trap a lot of this and at rainy times of the year
our water can taste a bit metallic and in flood can be a little
hazy too. We generally switch to (previously) bottled until after
a day or so all is clearer and taste improves once again.

Aah, just as I suspected. I used to work for a water utility. Years
ago, it had quite a few springwater sources serving rural
communities. Due to the variation in water quality with the seasons
and weather, we closed these sources down to protect consumers from
the risk of being served with bacterially unsatisfactory water.
Despite the use of the uv tube, under the adverse weather
conditions you describe I think that you could be at risk and your
precaution in using bottled water at those times is wellfounded.

Also, due to the cessation of pumping out many of the former mines,
groundwater levels are rising and quality of water could be
compromised. In some areas, the Coal Authority is now putting in
treatment systems to remove the iron prior to water being
discharged to surafce water, (you could look this up on their
website). I'm sure I saw something there about this - could have
been in an annual report.

You would most likely find out if iron is an issue in the house by
discoloration of clothing in the washing machine!

As regards testing by EHO, not in the 7 years we have been here
altho the spring does have a number as mentioned in the deeds.
When we bought it we had a respected water treatment firm round
who did a "briefcase" test, he was surprised at the quality and
sold us only the UV and sediment filters! House is 200+yrs old
and has always been supplied by the same spring, until we came
there was one 'candle' filter !!

I think it could be advisable to have a word with the EHO - again
try their website - probably under Environmental Health. They are
charged with the responsibility of monitoring private supplies like
this. Are there others nearby using springwater - the EHOs should
know and again should know if there are issues due to any
monitoring they carry out or queries that have been raised.

The apparent pH issue (blue rings in baths and SWMBO's highlights
turning green in bath) is the one I am hoping to address in due
course now.

Scaling in the bath could actually be copper - being dissolved in
the hot water cylinder tank.

Hope this helps,

Clot

thanks that is all very interesting.

especially
You would most likely find out if iron is an issue in the house by
discoloration of clothing in the washing machine!

as we have never had any bother with discoloured washing.....perhaps
the iron issue is not as bad as I expected..

Blue rings in bath & green highlighted hair:-
So far I am fairly certain the cause is copper from the pipes
dissolving in the periodically acidic water, especially exacerbated
by the heat in the (copper) DHW cylinder - could it be anything
else?

It is the most likely cause.

Regards

Clot.

PS. Feel free to ask, I will help if I can.

thanks:-

earlier you said:-
Has your supply ever been tested by the local Authority EHO. They are
responsible for this.

By "responsible" can you clarify please?

I gather I have to pay them for any and all tests and they can
*advise* me to make improvements as necessary - can they enforce and
potentially leave me with a "situation"?

Responding to another poster got me thinking of your position. The link
below outlines the current legislation and powers of the local authorities
with regard to such supplies.

HTHhttp://www.privatewatersupplies.gov.uk/private_water/files/SEC%2009.pdf

Clot,
Many thanks for the pointers - although this is Scottish I expect the
rest of us will not be far behind!

Kind of takes me back to my original question - what will doing
"appropriate" tests privately cost me?
to determine what I may or may not want bureaucrats to "find out" when/
if they perform their duties in a professional manner...

Jim

a large snip


Responding to another poster got me thinking of your position. The
link below outlines the current legislation and powers of the local
authorities with regard to such supplies.

HTHhttp://www.privatewatersupplies.gov.uk/private_water/files/SEC%2009.pdf

Clot,
Many thanks for the pointers - although this is Scottish I expect the
rest of us will not be far behind!

Kind of takes me back to my original question - what will doing
"appropriate" tests privately cost me?
to determine what I may or may not want bureaucrats to "find out"
when/ if they perform their duties in a professional manner...

Looking on that website again just now I came upon this document - will keep
you reading for ages!

http://www.privatewatersupplies.gov....Full%20Doc.pdf

You don't have to have the local EHO take the sample. You could try
Alcontrol (was part of Yorkshire Water originally). Now a private
laboratory. I think that they could both take the sample and do the
analysis. The price will depend upon sampling and analysis required.

I'm guessing but would suspect that the cost would be circa £200 if they did
the sampling and analysis. I suggest you give them a call , after reading
the hefty tome!

http://www.alcontrol.co.uk/