Andy Hall wrote in message news:47d6d6f2@qaanaaq...
"MOTORISTS seen carrying rubbish face a fine if they can't later prove
they disposed of it legally."

http://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/news...08159.0.motori
sts_to_be_traced_over_rubbish_dumping.php
All business and commercial waste is charged by weight and you
automatically
get a dated receipt
This is in East Sussex were fly tipping is a real problem on rural
roads.


So how does this bureaucratic nonsense solve that problem?


It doesn't solve the fly tipping problem at all, in fact its undoubtedly
party to blame.
So what would your un-bureaucratic solution to fly tipping be.


-

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:01:06 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

This is in East Sussex were fly tipping is a real problem on rural
roads.

So how does this bureaucratic nonsense solve that problem?

It doesn't as is shown by the fly tipping...

Our nearest dump, (about 30 miles away) requires a permit(*) for vans of
any size, pickups. flatbeds, crew cabs, twin axle trailers up to 3m long
(Odd what if I have twin axle trailer 3.1m long...). No trade waste at
all.

You can go in with a car with single axle trailer up to 3m long (guess who
has a single axle trailer a shade under 3m long...).

(*) I can't find from the Cumbria CC web site if there are any costs
associated with obtaining a permit. It doesn't say there are but it
doesn't say there aren't either.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 2008-03-11 22:38:53 +0000, "Mark" said:


Andy Hall wrote in message news:47d6d6f2@qaanaaq...
"MOTORISTS seen carrying rubbish face a fine if they can't later prove
they disposed of it legally."

http://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/news...08159.0.motori
sts_to_be_traced_over_rubbish_dumping.php
All business and commercial waste is charged by weight and you
automatically
get a dated receipt
This is in East Sussex were fly tipping is a real problem on rural
roads.


So how does this bureaucratic nonsense solve that problem?


It doesn't solve the fly tipping problem at all, in fact its undoubtedly
party to blame.
So what would your un-bureaucratic solution to fly tipping be.


-

Simple. Make it easier, not harder for people to dispose of their
rubbish in the correct place.

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:27:39 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:



Quite. I take it that you have supported the referendum campaign?

I considered it, then remembered being told that collectivism never works.

Phil Young

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-03-11 22:38:53 +0000, "Mark" said:


Andy Hall wrote in message news:47d6d6f2@qaanaaq...
"MOTORISTS seen carrying rubbish face a fine if they can't later prove
they disposed of it legally."

http://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/news...08159.0.motori

sts_to_be_traced_over_rubbish_dumping.php
All business and commercial waste is charged by weight and you
automatically
get a dated receipt
This is in East Sussex were fly tipping is a real problem on rural
roads.


So how does this bureaucratic nonsense solve that problem?


It doesn't solve the fly tipping problem at all, in fact its undoubtedly
party to blame.
So what would your un-bureaucratic solution to fly tipping be.


-

Simple. Make it easier, not harder for people to dispose of their
rubbish in the correct place.


The universal answer (to most things!) is to make it easier to do the
right thing than the wrong.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47d73388@qaanaaq...
This is in East Sussex were fly tipping is a real problem on rural
roads.


So how does this bureaucratic nonsense solve that problem?


It doesn't solve the fly tipping problem at all, in fact its undoubtedly
party to blame.
So what would your un-bureaucratic solution to fly tipping be.


Simple. Make it easier, not harder for people to dispose of their rubbish
in the correct place.


Oh yes that's an easy answer, how would that work in reality?





-

The message
from Adrian contains these words:

Bob Mannix ("Bob Mannix" ) gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying:

It is unlikely to apply to a householder with 5 black bin liners and an
old bike in a car, true, but is very likely to apply to a householder
with a trailer full of rubble, demolished shed, removed hedge or
whatever.

Unfortunately, since this is Bucks council that's being referred to, it's
really not that simple...

The Bucks council tips near me refuse point blank to let me in with a 2cv
van. "It's a commercial vehicle, innit, you need to have a commercial
waste permit and pay commercial waste rates".

So I borrowed a small box trailer from a neighbour once. I got a
bollocking for that, too - "You need a permit, I'm going to have to take
your name and address".

It's no bloody wonder there's fly-tipping with that kind of jobsworth
silliness going on.

Edinburgh's just as bad. Got bounced from a refuse disposal site
because I arrived in a privately registered 12-seater LandRover Station
Wagon. I assume that the moronic employee couldn't read sufficiently
well to understand the details on the vehicle excise disc.


On the other hand, our local one is brilliant.

Mark wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47d73388@qaanaaq...
This is in East Sussex were fly tipping is a real problem on rural
roads.
So how does this bureaucratic nonsense solve that problem?

It doesn't solve the fly tipping problem at all, in fact its undoubtedly
party to blame.
So what would your un-bureaucratic solution to fly tipping be.

Simple. Make it easier, not harder for people to dispose of their rubbish
in the correct place.


Oh yes that's an easy answer, how would that work in reality?


Start by not having complex schedules involing four different collection
containers to be put out on three different days spread across two weeks.

Make it possible to dispose of things like household batteries at local
facilities. Silly that I have to drive three miles uphill to comply with
the proper method of disposal. (Not supposed to put them into any of our
four collection containers.)
--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:29:36 +0000 someone who may be Rod
wrote this:-

Simple. Make it easier, not harder for people to dispose of their rubbish
in the correct place.

Oh yes that's an easy answer, how would that work in reality?

Start by not having complex schedules involing four different collection
containers to be put out on three different days spread across two weeks.

My bins are collected on the same day every week. Which bin is to be
collected (up to eight weeks ahead) can be looked up on the web. It
is neither hard or complex and even elderly slightly confused people
manage it.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On 12 Mar, 14:47, David Hansen
wrote:

My bins are collected on the same day every week. Which bin is to be
collected (up to eight weeks ahead) can be looked up on the web. It
is neither hard or complex and even elderly slightly confused people
manage it.

My local council gave us a small blue bin to put waste paper in. It is
collected roughly every two weeks, in a slightly erratic schedule.
They notify us of the schedule by putting a note in the bin ...

Ian

David Hansen wrote:
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:29:36 +0000 someone who may be Rod
wrote this:-

Simple. Make it easier, not harder for people to dispose of their rubbish
in the correct place.
Oh yes that's an easy answer, how would that work in reality?
Start by not having complex schedules involing four different collection
containers to be put out on three different days spread across two weeks.

My bins are collected on the same day every week. Which bin is to be
collected (up to eight weeks ahead) can be looked up on the web. It
is neither hard or complex and even elderly slightly confused people
manage it.



Lucky you!

How many elderly slightly confused people do you know who can and do
look up the schedule on the web?

I know that *I* forget which is to go out which day and which week.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

"Rod" wrote in message
...
Mark wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47d73388@qaanaaq...
This is in East Sussex were fly tipping is a real problem on rural
roads.
So how does this bureaucratic nonsense solve that problem?

It doesn't solve the fly tipping problem at all, in fact its
undoubtedly
party to blame.
So what would your un-bureaucratic solution to fly tipping be.

Simple. Make it easier, not harder for people to dispose of their
rubbish in the correct place.


Oh yes that's an easy answer, how would that work in reality?


Start by not having complex schedules involing four different collection
containers to be put out on three different days spread across two weeks.

I don't think that would have any effect on fly tipping, which is(around
here anyway) predominately larger commercial items and building waste.





-

Rod (Rod ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying:

Simple. Make it easier, not harder for people to dispose of their
rubbish in the correct place.

Oh yes that's an easy answer, how would that work in reality?

Start by not having complex schedules involing four different
collection containers to be put out on three different days spread
across two weeks.

My bins are collected on the same day every week. Which bin is to be
collected (up to eight weeks ahead) can be looked up on the web. It is
neither hard or complex and even elderly slightly confused people
manage it.

Lucky you!

How many elderly slightly confused people do you know who can and do
look up the schedule on the web?

I know that *I* forget which is to go out which day and which week.

Ours is relatively straightforward. General bin every week, compostable
bin alternates with recycling boxes on the same day as the general bin.

How do I remember which is which? Simple. I look to see what the
neighbours have put out...

How do I remember which day to put 'em out? Simple. I hear the binwagon,
swear, and dive out of bed...

Mark wrote:
"Rod" wrote in message
...
Mark wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47d73388@qaanaaq...
This is in East Sussex were fly tipping is a real problem on rural
roads.
So how does this bureaucratic nonsense solve that problem?
It doesn't solve the fly tipping problem at all, in fact its
undoubtedly
party to blame.
So what would your un-bureaucratic solution to fly tipping be.

Simple. Make it easier, not harder for people to dispose of their
rubbish in the correct place.

Oh yes that's an easy answer, how would that work in reality?

Start by not having complex schedules involing four different collection
containers to be put out on three different days spread across two weeks.

I don't think that would have any effect on fly tipping, which is(around
here anyway) predominately larger commercial items and building waste.


Maybe.

I have just been for a walk. I have *never* seen so much rubbish
scattered everywhere. The contents of numerous paper/recyclable plastic
& can bins have been distributed throughout the streets and woodland by
the winds. And the containers themselves. I guess these are mostly the
ones that people actually bother to put out.

But I can see why people who are out at work might avoid using any of
the recycling facilities rather than come back to lost containers and
mess. They are then left with rubbish to get rid of...

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

Rod (Rod ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying:

I have just been for a walk. I have *never* seen so much rubbish
scattered everywhere. The contents of numerous paper/recyclable plastic
& can bins have been distributed throughout the streets and woodland by
the winds. And the containers themselves. I guess these are mostly the
ones that people actually bother to put out.

I don't think you can blame your local authority for last night's wind.

"Rod" wrote in message
...
..

Simple. Make it easier, not harder for people to dispose of their
rubbish in the correct place.

Oh yes that's an easy answer, how would that work in reality?

Start by not having complex schedules involing four different collection
containers to be put out on three different days spread across two
weeks.

I don't think that would have any effect on fly tipping, which is(around
here anyway) predominately larger commercial items and building waste.


Maybe.

I have just been for a walk. I have *never* seen so much rubbish scattered
everywhere. The contents of numerous paper/recyclable plastic & can bins
have been distributed throughout the streets and woodland by the winds.
And the containers themselves. I guess these are mostly the ones that
people actually bother to put out.

But I can see why people who are out at work might avoid using any of the
recycling facilities rather than come back to lost containers and mess.
They are then left with rubbish to get rid of...

Yes I don't dispute that household waste should be made as easy as possible
to dispose of, your waste collection arrangements seem unnecessarily
complicated, we have just two big bins one recycle one rubbish.

But the original article in this thread was undoubtedly referring to what
would be commercial waste and fly tipping, plus a small amount of
journalistic side-tracking re "Motorists".

How the LA fairly deal with commercial waste and the fly tipping
consequences without householders subsidising the cost is a question most
councils would love a solution.




-

Adrian wrote:
Rod (Rod ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying:

I have just been for a walk. I have *never* seen so much rubbish
scattered everywhere. The contents of numerous paper/recyclable plastic
& can bins have been distributed throughout the streets and woodland by
the winds. And the containers themselves. I guess these are mostly the
ones that people actually bother to put out.

I don't think you can blame your local authority for last night's wind.

Of course I don't. That was the Met Office's fault. :-) But I do blame
them for dreadful implementation of a "recycling" policy. Including:

Choice of containers that are almost guaranteed to blow around even in
moderate winds and that have no means of securely attaching the lid to
the base, nor the base to an anchor of any sort. Containers that are so
poorly constructed that they get damaged by simply trying to close the
lid in a fairly gentle fashion. (A considerable amount of the plastic
consists of broken bits of recycling containers.)

Definition of recyclable items that causes widespread confusion.

Recycling centres that are extremely hostile to users. (Some staff are
quite friendly - but the whole system is unpleasant.)

Expensive large item collection. (Last I looked it was something like
"up to three items" for a single fee. Which is fine if your
refrigerator, washing machine and freezer all need replacing at the same
time.)

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

How do I remember which is which? Simple. I look to see what the
neighbours have put out...

How do I remember which day to put 'em out? Simple. I hear the binwagon,
swear, and dive out of bed...

Yeah, thats the method I tend to use!
--
steve

Steven Briggs (Steven Briggs )
gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

How do I remember which is which? Simple. I look to see what the
neighbours have put out...

How do I remember which day to put 'em out? Simple. I hear the binwagon,
swear, and dive out of bed...

Yeah, thats the method I tend to use!

Luckily, I don't live next door to you, else we'd both be screwed.

On 2008-03-12 07:57:04 +0000, Phil Young said:

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:27:39 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:



Quite. I take it that you have supported the referendum campaign?

I considered it, then remembered being told that collectivism never works.

Phil Young

It doesn't in the end. I was talking about individual effort to make
the point.

On 2008-03-12 12:22:28 +0000, "Mark" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47d73388@qaanaaq...
This is in East Sussex were fly tipping is a real problem on rural
roads.


So how does this bureaucratic nonsense solve that problem?


It doesn't solve the fly tipping problem at all, in fact its undoubtedly
party to blame.
So what would your un-bureaucratic solution to fly tipping be.


Simple. Make it easier, not harder for people to dispose of their rubbish
in the correct place.


Oh yes that's an easy answer, how would that work in reality?



Carrot rather than stick. The concept worked well with refunds on
bottles and certain other items, therefore incentivise people in order
to drive particular behaviour.

On 2008-03-12 14:47:52 +0000, David Hansen
said:

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:29:36 +0000 someone who may be Rod
wrote this:-

Simple. Make it easier, not harder for people to dispose of their rubbish
in the correct place.

Oh yes that's an easy answer, how would that work in reality?

Start by not having complex schedules involing four different collection
containers to be put out on three different days spread across two weeks.

My bins are collected on the same day every week. Which bin is to be
collected (up to eight weeks ahead) can be looked up on the web. It
is neither hard or complex and even elderly slightly confused people
manage it.

If they have the time to waste.

Perhaps the better solution would be to pay said elderly people to sort
the waste.

Andy Hall wrote in message news:47d8484b@qaanaaq...
On 2008-03-12 12:22:28 +0000, "Mark" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news:47d73388@qaanaaq...
This is in East Sussex were fly tipping is a real problem on rural
roads.


So how does this bureaucratic nonsense solve that problem?


It doesn't solve the fly tipping problem at all, in fact its
undoubtedly
party to blame.
So what would your un-bureaucratic solution to fly tipping be.


Simple. Make it easier, not harder for people to dispose of their
rubbish
in the correct place.


Oh yes that's an easy answer, how would that work in reality?



Carrot rather than stick. The concept worked well with refunds on
bottles and certain other items, therefore incentivise people in order
to drive particular behaviour.


Wonderful Nulaber gobbedspeak
quite how you would "incentivise" lazy bastuard people who would rather dump
their waste in a hedgerow halfway to the tip and are too tight to hire a
skip still remains a mystery to me.
If you really have a feasible idea I would love to hear it.




-

On 2008-03-12 23:55:14 +0000, "Mark" said:


Andy Hall wrote in message news:47d8484b@qaanaaq...
On 2008-03-12 12:22:28 +0000, "Mark" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news:47d73388@qaanaaq...
This is in East Sussex were fly tipping is a real problem on rural
roads.


So how does this bureaucratic nonsense solve that problem?


It doesn't solve the fly tipping problem at all, in fact its
undoubtedly
party to blame.
So what would your un-bureaucratic solution to fly tipping be.


Simple. Make it easier, not harder for people to dispose of their
rubbish
in the correct place.


Oh yes that's an easy answer, how would that work in reality?



Carrot rather than stick. The concept worked well with refunds on
bottles and certain other items, therefore incentivise people in order
to drive particular behaviour.


Wonderful Nulaber gobbedspeak

From me? Hardly.


quite how you would "incentivise" lazy bastuard people who would rather dump
their waste in a hedgerow halfway to the tip and are too tight to hire a
skip still remains a mystery to me.
If you really have a feasible idea I would love to hear it.

Make it easier for people to dispose of their rubbish, not harder as is
being done by all of the unnecessary procedures being implemented with
their real and implied costs.

The "lazy bastuard" people didn't suddenly become that way. Part of
the problem is the spiraling cost of renting a skip. Why has that
happened? Refer to first point.

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 21:14:55 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On 2008-03-12 07:57:04 +0000, Phil Young said:

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:27:39 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:



Quite. I take it that you have supported the referendum campaign?

I considered it, then remembered being told that collectivism never
works.

Phil Young

It doesn't in the end. I was talking about individual effort to make the
point.

You seem to be encouraging an action you recognise as futile.

What of the opportunity cost ?

Phil Young

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:09:30 +0000 someone who may be Rod
wrote this:-

My bins are collected on the same day every week. Which bin is to be
collected (up to eight weeks ahead) can be looked up on the web. It
is neither hard or complex and even elderly slightly confused people
manage it.

How many elderly slightly confused people do you know who can and do
look up the schedule on the web?

No idea. I have never asked them.

However, they put their own bins out regularly. It is simple enough,
as I said the same day each week. What varies is which bin(s) which
are put out.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 21:18:27 +0000 someone who may be Andy Hall
wrote this:-

My bins are collected on the same day every week. Which bin is to be
collected (up to eight weeks ahead) can be looked up on the web. It
is neither hard or complex and even elderly slightly confused people
manage it.

If they have the time to waste.

What wasted time is that? Bins a recollected on the same day each
week. If I can't remember which bin is coming up this week then I
can look it up in a matter of a second or two.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47d8af30@qaanaaq...

Make it easier for people to dispose of their rubbish, not harder

Oh yes that's an easy answer, how would that work in reality?



Carrot rather than stick. The concept worked well with refunds on
bottles and certain other items, therefore incentivise people in order
to drive particular behaviour.


Wonderful Nulaber gobbedspeak

From me? Hardly.

Yes in as much as its all talk but no solution, see below


quite how you would "incentivise" lazy bastuard people who would rather
dump
their waste in a hedgerow halfway to the tip and are too tight to hire a
skip still remains a mystery to me.
If you really have a feasible idea I would love to hear it.

Make it easier for people to dispose of their rubbish, not harder as is
being done by all of the unnecessary procedures being implemented with
their real and implied costs.


Not only are you beginning to sound like a NuLaber councillor but you also
now seem to enjoy going round in circles like mr windmill Hansen, if you
cant come up a working proposal tyhe not much point of me responding further
in case this type of thought process is transmittable.





-





-

On 2008-03-13 07:34:44 +0000, Phil Young said:

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 21:14:55 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On 2008-03-12 07:57:04 +0000, Phil Young said:

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:27:39 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:



Quite. I take it that you have supported the referendum campaign?

I considered it, then remembered being told that collectivism never
works.

Phil Young

It doesn't in the end. I was talking about individual effort to make the
point.

You seem to be encouraging an action you recognise as futile.

What of the opportunity cost ?

Phil Young

Indeed.

However, on occasions one has to demonstrate leadership

On 2008-03-13 08:54:19 +0000, David Hansen
said:

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 21:18:27 +0000 someone who may be Andy Hall
wrote this:-

My bins are collected on the same day every week. Which bin is to be
collected (up to eight weeks ahead) can be looked up on the web. It
is neither hard or complex and even elderly slightly confused people
manage it.

If they have the time to waste.

What wasted time is that? Bins a recollected on the same day each
week. If I can't remember which bin is coming up this week then I
can look it up in a matter of a second or two.

Having to sort out the various bits and pieces into different
containers with different rules and different collection arrangements.

A complete waste of time because there is no value in the outcome.

The correct solution is for the organisation arranging the collection
to do the job that they are being paid to do.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47d97b9b@qaanaaq...

The correct solution is for the organisation arranging the collection to
do the job that they are being paid to do.

I believe they probably are doing that. The trouble is your perception of
what they are being paid to do is at odds with what they're actually being
paid to do.

clive

On 2008-03-13 19:15:06 +0000, "Clive George" said:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47d97b9b@qaanaaq...

The correct solution is for the organisation arranging the collection
to do the job that they are being paid to do.

I believe they probably are doing that. The trouble is your perception
of what they are being paid to do is at odds with what they're actually
being paid to do.

clive

Quite possibly.

I didn't exclude going all of the way back to who is actually defining
the rules and making the payments.

Again the solution is fairly simple. Investigate what the rules *really* are.

For example, my LA announced that they would only collect from the road
end of my quite long drive, whereas before they collected from a point
closer to the house. The claim from them was that this was all about
Elfinsafety. Eventually I got to the truth. Was it ********....
The truth was that it was a cost saving measure based on time. A
"discussion" ensued, eventually involving CEO and political figures
along the lines that either they could do what they had originally been
paid to do or could reduce the payment. They now collect from the
original position and there is no more silly nonsense.

The other part is that they are using EU legislation for their
convenience of increased employment of wasters unable to do a proper
job and to achieve an apparent position of authority over the trivial.
This needs to be stamped out. The solution for that is P45s for
the wasters and those who made the decision to employ them and a
disconnection from the edicts of the EU where they are pointless as in
this case.

Andy Hall wrote:

On 2008-03-13 08:54:19 +0000, David Hansen
said:

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 21:18:27 +0000 someone who may be Andy Hall
wrote this:-

My bins are collected on the same day every week. Which bin is to be
collected (up to eight weeks ahead) can be looked up on the web. It
is neither hard or complex and even elderly slightly confused people
manage it.


If they have the time to waste.


What wasted time is that? Bins a recollected on the same day each
week. If I can't remember which bin is coming up this week then I
can look it up in a matter of a second or two.


Having to sort out the various bits and pieces into different containers
with different rules and different collection arrangements.

A complete waste of time because there is no value in the outcome.

The correct solution is for the organisation arranging the collection to
do the job that they are being paid to do.

Then they will just use this as an excuse to up the council tax. Don't
give them any chance to do this.

Dave

David Hansen wrote:

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:09:30 +0000 someone who may be Rod
wrote this:-


My bins are collected on the same day every week. Which bin is to be
collected (up to eight weeks ahead) can be looked up on the web. It
is neither hard or complex and even elderly slightly confused people
manage it.

How many elderly slightly confused people do you know who can and do
look up the schedule on the web?

Indeed, how many have the access?

No idea. I have never asked them.

However, they put their own bins out regularly. It is simple enough,
as I said the same day each week. What varies is which bin(s) which
are put out.

No! It is not as simple as you state.

When you have a Bank holiday on a Monday, collection slips a day, not a
lot of people know that.

When you come to Easter weekend, the collection slips 2 days.

Last year, I saw one LA collecting on Boxing day.

Not a lot of people know that either.


Dave

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 19:05:29 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On 2008-03-13 07:34:44 +0000, Phil Young said:

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 21:14:55 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On 2008-03-12 07:57:04 +0000, Phil Young said:

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:27:39 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:



Quite. I take it that you have supported the referendum campaign?

I considered it, then remembered being told that collectivism never
works.

Phil Young

It doesn't in the end. I was talking about individual effort to make
the point.

You seem to be encouraging an action you recognise as futile.

What of the opportunity cost ?

Phil Young

Indeed.

However, on occasions one has to demonstrate leadership

One certainly does.

Do let us know if you ever give it a try. Especially if you aspire to
leadership in a non-collective context.

Phil Young

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 23:25:29 +0000 someone who may be Dave
wrote this:-

However, they put their own bins out regularly. It is simple enough,
as I said the same day each week. What varies is which bin(s) which
are put out.

No! It is not as simple as you state.

When you have a Bank holiday on a Monday,

The fact that the banks have decided to go on holiday does not mean
the rest of us have. Rather people keep the traditional local
holidays.

collection slips a day, not a lot of people know that.

Anybody who "knows" that would be making a fool of themselves. I
have no idea what arrangements the council make to cover holidays
(and I can't be bothered to look them up), but I do know that
whatever they do does not affect the collections of those of us
whose day later in the week.

When you come to Easter weekend, the collection slips 2 days.

See my comment above.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 19:08:11 +0000 someone who may be Andy Hall
wrote this:-

My bins are collected on the same day every week. Which bin is to be
collected (up to eight weeks ahead) can be looked up on the web. It
is neither hard or complex and even elderly slightly confused people
manage it.

If they have the time to waste.

What wasted time is that? Bins a recollected on the same day each
week. If I can't remember which bin is coming up this week then I
can look it up in a matter of a second or two.

Having to sort out the various bits and pieces into different
containers with different rules and different collection arrangements.

Ah I see. So it was a swerve, from the "time wasted" putting one bin
out to the "time wasted" sorting things into the right containers.

There is no time wasted doing this sorting, provided one is
organised. Holding the item in one's hand it is just a matter of
putting it in the right container. I occasionally give talks to
adults with learning difficulties and they manage that easily, so
I'm sure others can.

A complete waste of time because there is no value in the outcome.

There is a great deal of value in the outcome, not the least that
uncontaminated material streams attract higher prices than ones
which have been contaminated by being mixed with other materials.

The correct solution is for the organisation arranging the collection
to do the job that they are being paid to do.

As I have said before, if you wish to pay extra for someone to do
this sorting for you then you can do so. However, such alternative
collections have been launched in a blaze of publicity in places yet
not attracted large numbers of customers. The public seem happy
enough with the services councils provide.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen wrote:
On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 23:25:29 +0000 someone who may be Dave
wrote this:-

However, they put their own bins out regularly. It is simple enough,
as I said the same day each week. What varies is which bin(s) which
are put out.
No! It is not as simple as you state.

When you have a Bank holiday on a Monday,

The fact that the banks have decided to go on holiday does not mean
the rest of us have. Rather people keep the traditional local
holidays.

collection slips a day, not a lot of people know that.

Anybody who "knows" that would be making a fool of themselves. I
have no idea what arrangements the council make to cover holidays
(and I can't be bothered to look them up), but I do know that
whatever they do does not affect the collections of those of us
whose day later in the week.

When you come to Easter weekend, the collection slips 2 days.


See my comment above.

Your collection system seems to be different to the majority of those I
have experienced (in England, Wales and Scotland).

I concur with Dave. Bank holidays cause problems. I *think* that some
BHs cause the rest of the week to be shifted back a day while others do
not. But I would have to look it up. Christmas and Easter are always
different.

It is simply not possible to predict accurately when the various
collections will be made from any formula/rules - you have to refer to
the web site/documents.

It is also complicated by things like working away from home (even just
the odd day), holidays, and even councils (at least threatening) fines
for leaving bins out beyond the absolute minimum time required for
collection.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

David Hansen wrote:
On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 19:08:11 +0000 someone who may be Andy Hall
wrote this:-

My bins are collected on the same day every week. Which bin is to be
collected (up to eight weeks ahead) can be looked up on the web. It
is neither hard or complex and even elderly slightly confused people
manage it.
If they have the time to waste.
What wasted time is that? Bins a recollected on the same day each
week. If I can't remember which bin is coming up this week then I
can look it up in a matter of a second or two.
Having to sort out the various bits and pieces into different
containers with different rules and different collection arrangements.

Ah I see. So it was a swerve, from the "time wasted" putting one bin
out to the "time wasted" sorting things into the right containers.

There is no time wasted doing this sorting, provided one is
organised. Holding the item in one's hand it is just a matter of
putting it in the right container. I occasionally give talks to
adults with learning difficulties and they manage that easily, so
I'm sure others can.


Perhaps you can teach my partner to get up from her enforced lying
position to get the various components of our rubbish stream into the
correct bins? Perhaps you will teach her to be strong enough to carry
the various bins to the pick up points? Perhaps you will make it
possible for her to actually be physically able to use her computer
whenever she wants so that she can check collections days on the web?
Perhaps, but this is probably far too big a stretch, you will learn that
some people have problems other than learning difficulties that make
compliance with the existing systems very difficult?

A complete waste of time because there is no value in the outcome.

There is a great deal of value in the outcome, not the least that
uncontaminated material streams attract higher prices than ones
which have been contaminated by being mixed with other materials.

The correct solution is for the organisation arranging the collection
to do the job that they are being paid to do.

As I have said before, if you wish to pay extra for someone to do
this sorting for you then you can do so. However, such alternative
collections have been launched in a blaze of publicity in places yet
not attracted large numbers of customers. The public seem happy
enough with the services councils provide.


It seems that in some areas there are sophisticated systems that can
separate green/brown/white glass fragments. However, councils appear
quite happy to let us waste our effort by continuing to sort the
coloured glasses.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 08:09:51 +0000 someone who may be Rod
wrote this:-

Perhaps you can teach my partner to get up from her enforced lying
position to get the various components of our rubbish stream into the
correct bins? Perhaps you will teach her to be strong enough to carry
the various bins to the pick up points?

To be convincing your argument would need to explain how a system
with a single bin into which all waste is put would be better for
your partner.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54