I recently bought Aldi's power meter,
which I have found quite instructive -
I was surprised that my Sky box and TV
took 20 watts each in standby.

This led me to wonder how I could measure
the power consumption of our 2 immersion heaters.
I assume it is dangerous, probably illegal,
to fit a power socket in the bathroom.

Is there any simple way of getting round this?

Timothy Murphy wrote:

Is there any simple way of getting round this?

A few:

1) Look at the ratings plate
2) Clamp meter
3) Using the lekky meter

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
Timothy Murphy writes:

I recently bought Aldi's power meter,
which I have found quite instructive -
I was surprised that my Sky box and TV
took 20 watts each in standby.

Set top boxes are imfamous for not reducing power consumption
in standby mode, and are probably largely resposible for the
current standby hysteria. Most modern TV's reduce their standby
power to negligable levels in standby mode or they can't be
sold in a number of countries. How old is your TV?

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Timothy Murphy writes:
I recently bought Aldi's power meter,
which I have found quite instructive -
I was surprised that my Sky box and TV
took 20 watts each in standby.

Set top boxes are imfamous for not reducing power consumption
in standby mode, and are probably largely resposible for the
current standby hysteria. Most modern TV's reduce their standby
power to negligable levels in standby mode or they can't be
sold in a number of countries. How old is your TV?

Also, as commented at the time, the Aldi power meter does not look like
it understand power factors. So lightly loaded switched mode supplies
(which often exhibit very poor power factors) could over-read
significantly.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 4 Oct, 09:04, John Rumm wrote:


Also, as commented at the time, the Aldi power meter does not look like
it understand power factors. So lightly loaded switched mode supplies
(which often exhibit very poor power factors) could over-read
significantly.


Are you suggesting that the Aldi power meter is not a power meter?

T.

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Timothy Murphy writes:
I recently bought Aldi's power meter,
which I have found quite instructive -
I was surprised that my Sky box and TV
took 20 watts each in standby.

Set top boxes are imfamous for not reducing power consumption
in standby mode, and are probably largely resposible for the
current standby hysteria.

A chum used to design cable set top boxes. He said that when the box
was put into standby mode two things happened :

video and sound outputs were stopped
an led came on to indicate the box was in standby mode

No power saving at all.

Guy
-- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Guy Dawson I.T. Manager Crossflight Ltd

wrote:
On 4 Oct, 09:04, John Rumm wrote:

Also, as commented at the time, the Aldi power meter does not look like
it understand power factors. So lightly loaded switched mode supplies
(which often exhibit very poor power factors) could over-read
significantly.


Are you suggesting that the Aldi power meter is not a power meter?

No, what I was highlighting is that the write up for it offers no clues
as whether it is able to distinguish between real and apparent power
consumption[1] - so take readings taken on this sort of kit with a good
degree of scepticism.

[1] Unlike the Maplin equivalent device for example which measures the
power factor of the load and makes allowances for it. Note however that
even this one does not work well on small capacitive loads.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 4 Oct, 11:08, John Rumm wrote:
wrote:
On 4 Oct, 09:04, John Rumm wrote:

Also, as commented at the time, the Aldi power meter does not look like
it understand power factors. So lightly loaded switched mode supplies
(which often exhibit very poor power factors) could over-read
significantly.

Are you suggesting that the Aldi power meter is not a power meter?

No, what I was highlighting is that the write up for it offers no clues
as whether it is able to distinguish between real and apparent power
consumption[1] - so take readings taken on this sort of kit with a good
degree of scepticism.

[1] Unlike the Maplin equivalent device for example which measures the
power factor of the load and makes allowances for it. Note however that
even this one does not work well on small capacitive loads.


I'm afraid I don't fully understand. A device consuming 20W will do so
irrespective of the power factor. A power meter should measure this
power, just as my electricity meter does. What does making allowances
for pf mean?

T

John Rumm wrote:

Also, as commented at the time, the Aldi power meter does not look like
it understand power factors. So lightly loaded switched mode supplies
(which often exhibit very poor power factors) could over-read
significantly.

Have you seen the Aldi power meter?
It actually seems quite sophisticated,
certainly more so than the Maplin meter (which I have also used).
Eg the manual is difficult to follow ...

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

I recently bought Aldi's power meter,
which I have found quite instructive -
I was surprised that my Sky box and TV
took 20 watts each in standby.

Set top boxes are imfamous for not reducing power consumption
in standby mode, and are probably largely resposible for the
current standby hysteria. Most modern TV's reduce their standby
power to negligable levels in standby mode or they can't be
sold in a number of countries. How old is your TV?

It's a Sony 26in TV (not flat screen), about 8 years old I think.
On re-checking I see that it only takes 12 watts in standby,
while the Grundig Sky box takes 30 watts.

Actually, I don't see any way of putting the Sky box on standy -
this is the consumption with the TV off.

John Rumm wrote:
Are you suggesting that the Aldi power meter is not a power meter?

No, what I was highlighting is that the write up for it offers no clues
as whether it is able to distinguish between real and apparent power
consumption[1] - so take readings taken on this sort of kit with a good
degree of scepticism.

[1] Unlike the Maplin equivalent device for example which measures the
power factor of the load and makes allowances for it. Note however that
even this one does not work well on small capacitive loads.

Actually, I see that the Aldi meter does show the power factor -
0.99 in this case.

John Rumm wrote:
Is there any simple way of getting round this?

A few:

1) Look at the ratings plate
2) Clamp meter
3) Using the lekky meter

I want to calculate power consumption during over a period,
so I'm not sure if these will work.
Incidentally, how does a Lecky (I assume that is what is meant) meter work?
Is it reasonably accurate?

Timothy Murphy wrote:

[1] Unlike the Maplin equivalent device for example which measures the
power factor of the load and makes allowances for it. Note however that
even this one does not work well on small capacitive loads.

Actually, I see that the Aldi meter does show the power factor -
0.99 in this case.

OK, the one that someone linked to a week or so ago did not have any
mention of it in the write up - and there was nothing obvious on the
display of the unit pictured. If it does adjust for the PF then it
should give you more accurate readings.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

wrote:

Are you suggesting that the Aldi power meter is not a power meter?
No, what I was highlighting is that the write up for it offers no clues
as whether it is able to distinguish between real and apparent power
consumption[1] - so take readings taken on this sort of kit with a good
degree of scepticism.


I'm afraid I don't fully understand. A device consuming 20W will do so
irrespective of the power factor. A power meter should measure this
power, just as my electricity meter does. What does making allowances
for pf mean?

The simplest ones measure the line voltage and the current flow and from
that deduce the power consumption. On kit with non unity power factors
this will end up reporting the VA rating rather than the real power
consumption.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Timothy Murphy wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

Also, as commented at the time, the Aldi power meter does not look like
it understand power factors. So lightly loaded switched mode supplies
(which often exhibit very poor power factors) could over-read
significantly.

Have you seen the Aldi power meter?
It actually seems quite sophisticated,
certainly more so than the Maplin meter (which I have also used).
Eg the manual is difficult to follow ...

I saw the one that someone linked to a little while back (can't follow
the link now since they seem to have removed the special offer) - that
one looked fairly basic and did not mention an ability to measure the
power factor. Yours may be better - or the advert may have left out a
bunch of features.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 4 Oct, 18:53, John Rumm wrote:
wrote:
Are you suggesting that the Aldi power meter is not a power meter?
No, what I was highlighting is that the write up for it offers no clues
as whether it is able to distinguish between real and apparent power
consumption[1] - so take readings taken on this sort of kit with a good
degree of scepticism.
I'm afraid I don't fully understand. A device consuming 20W will do so
irrespective of the power factor. A power meter should measure this
power, just as my electricity meter does. What does making allowances
for pf mean?

The simplest ones measure the line voltage and the current flow and from
that deduce the power consumption. On kit with non unity power factors
this will end up reporting the VA rating rather than the real power
consumption.


If that's the case it isn't a power meter, shouldn't be called one,
and you were saying it wasn't.

T

On 4 Oct, 18:21, Timothy Murphy wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
Are you suggesting that the Aldi power meter is not a power meter?

No, what I was highlighting is that the write up for it offers no clues
as whether it is able to distinguish between real and apparent power
consumption[1] - so take readings taken on this sort of kit with a good
degree of scepticism.

[1] Unlike the Maplin equivalent device for example which measures the
power factor of the load and makes allowances for it. Note however that
even this one does not work well on small capacitive loads.

Actually, I see that the Aldi meter does show the power factor -
0.99 in this case.

When you measure the power factor, are you measuring it for the device
in question, or are you measuring the average for the neighbourhood?

T

In message , Timothy Murphy
writes
Actually, I don't see any way of putting the Sky box on standy

what happens when you press the button at the top right of the remote
control?

--
Si

In article ,
John Rumm writes:
wrote:
I'm afraid I don't fully understand. A device consuming 20W will do so
irrespective of the power factor. A power meter should measure this
power, just as my electricity meter does. What does making allowances
for pf mean?

The simplest ones measure the line voltage and the current flow and from
that deduce the power consumption. On kit with non unity power factors
this will end up reporting the VA rating rather than the real power
consumption.

There's an even simpler one available which measures only current
(using a clamp-on current transformer), and assumes the mains voltage.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article om,
writes:

When you measure the power factor, are you measuring it for the device
in question, or are you measuring the average for the neighbourhood?

A plug-in device can only measure it for the load running through it.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 4 Oct, 21:23, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
In article om,
writes:



When you measure the power factor, are you measuring it for the device
in question, or are you measuring the average for the neighbourhood?

A plug-in device can only measure it for the load running through it.



Are you suggesting it somehow compensates for the power factor of the
supply automatically?

T

Si wrote:

Actually, I don't see any way of putting the Sky box on standby

what happens when you press the button at the top right of the remote
control?

This doesn't seem to affect power consumption in the slightest -
it remains just under 30 watts (with the TV off),
though the light on the Sky box turns from green to red.

In article ,
Timothy Murphy writes:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

I recently bought Aldi's power meter,
which I have found quite instructive -
I was surprised that my Sky box and TV
took 20 watts each in standby.

Set top boxes are imfamous for not reducing power consumption
in standby mode, and are probably largely resposible for the
current standby hysteria. Most modern TV's reduce their standby
power to negligable levels in standby mode or they can't be
sold in a number of countries. How old is your TV?

It's a Sony 26in TV (not flat screen), about 8 years old I think.
On re-checking I see that it only takes 12 watts in standby,

Just checked a 2 year old Panasonic LCD, and it's 0.5W standby.
It doesn't have a TCO'03 sticker on it, but this brings it within
the TCO'03 requirements (1W max standby) and thus able to be sold
in some countries where that's a requirement.

while the Grundig Sky box takes 30 watts.

That seems an awful lot, or the power meter is not handling
loads with power factor 1 correctly.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

wrote:

snip
When you measure the power factor, are you measuring it for the device
in question, or are you measuring the average for the neighbourhood?
A plug-in device can only measure it for the load running through it.



Are you suggesting it somehow compensates for the power factor of the
supply automatically?

T


Is this a trick question? The supply doesn't have a power factor; only
the load has a power factor.

On 5 Oct, 23:51, Rumble wrote:
wrote:

snip

When you measure the power factor, are you measuring it for the device
in question, or are you measuring the average for the neighbourhood?
A plug-in device can only measure it for the load running through it.

Are you suggesting it somehow compensates for the power factor of the
supply automatically?

T

Is this a trick question? The supply doesn't have a power factor; only
the load has a power factor.

It wasn't supposed to be a trick question. The supply has a power
factor by definition. The question is whether it equals unity or not.
Are you implying that a domestic supply is guaranteed to have a power
factor of 1?

T

Rumble wrote:
wrote:

snip
When you measure the power factor, are you measuring it for the device
in question, or are you measuring the average for the neighbourhood?
A plug-in device can only measure it for the load running through it.



Are you suggesting it somehow compensates for the power factor of the
supply automatically?

T


Is this a trick question? The supply doesn't have a power factor; only
the load has a power factor.

Its an odd question granted, although you could argue that the supply
may have a distorted voltage waveform as a result of local high current
non-power factor corrected loads. This (and other things) will introduce
harmonic noise to the supply. The result would be lowering of the
effective power factor seen at the load.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article . com,
writes:
On 5 Oct, 23:51, Rumble wrote:
wrote:

snip

When you measure the power factor, are you measuring it for the device
in question, or are you measuring the average for the neighbourhood?
A plug-in device can only measure it for the load running through it.

Are you suggesting it somehow compensates for the power factor of the
supply automatically?

Is this a trick question? The supply doesn't have a power factor; only
the load has a power factor.

It wasn't supposed to be a trick question. The supply has a power
factor by definition.

In which case you'll have to give your definition, because it
is meaningless with the standard definition of power factor.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 6 Oct, 09:23, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
In article . com,
writes:



On 5 Oct, 23:51, Rumble wrote:
wrote:

snip

When you measure the power factor, are you measuring it for the device
in question, or are you measuring the average for the neighbourhood?
A plug-in device can only measure it for the load running through it.

Are you suggesting it somehow compensates for the power factor of the
supply automatically?

Is this a trick question? The supply doesn't have a power factor; only
the load has a power factor.

It wasn't supposed to be a trick question. The supply has a power
factor by definition.

In which case you'll have to give your definition, because it
is meaningless with the standard definition of power factor.

--

Well, it's not _my_ definition it's _the_ definition. Perhaps you
could Google for one?

T

In article .com,
writes:
On 6 Oct, 09:23, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
In article . com,
writes:



On 5 Oct, 23:51, Rumble wrote:
wrote:

snip

When you measure the power factor, are you measuring it for the device
in question, or are you measuring the average for the neighbourhood?
A plug-in device can only measure it for the load running through it.

Are you suggesting it somehow compensates for the power factor of the
supply automatically?

Is this a trick question? The supply doesn't have a power factor; only
the load has a power factor.

It wasn't supposed to be a trick question. The supply has a power
factor by definition.

In which case you'll have to give your definition, because it
is meaningless with the standard definition of power factor.

Well, it's not _my_ definition it's _the_ definition. Perhaps you
could Google for one?

I am very familiar with the standard definition which applies
to loads, having designed and built a true power meter myself
some 25 years ago, and having explained power factor many times
here over the years.

You'll have to point out a definition of power factor of a
supply, as that's not covered by the standard definition.
Google draws a blank too. The only related thing I could think
of would be a measure of the worse power factor load a particular
supply can drive, but even that's meaningless as supplies
are rated in [k]VA and in many cases can handle worst case
loads with a PF of zero.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

wrote in message
ups.com...
On 5 Oct, 23:51, Rumble wrote:
wrote:

snip

When you measure the power factor, are you measuring it for the
device
in question, or are you measuring the average for the neighbourhood?
A plug-in device can only measure it for the load running through it.

Are you suggesting it somehow compensates for the power factor of the
supply automatically?

T

Is this a trick question? The supply doesn't have a power factor; only
the load has a power factor.

It wasn't supposed to be a trick question. The supply has a power
factor by definition. The question is whether it equals unity or not.
Are you implying that a domestic supply is guaranteed to have a power
factor of 1?

They are charging me per kwHr so they had better have the correct power
factor.

On 6 Oct, 18:04, "dennis@home" wrote:
wrote in message

ups.com...



On 5 Oct, 23:51, Rumble wrote:
wrote:

snip

When you measure the power factor, are you measuring it for the
device
in question, or are you measuring the average for the neighbourhood?
A plug-in device can only measure it for the load running through it.

Are you suggesting it somehow compensates for the power factor of the
supply automatically?

T

Is this a trick question? The supply doesn't have a power factor; only
the load has a power factor.

It wasn't supposed to be a trick question. The supply has a power
factor by definition. The question is whether it equals unity or not.
Are you implying that a domestic supply is guaranteed to have a power
factor of 1?

They are charging me per kwHr so they had better have the correct power
factor.

If they are charging per kWh, power factor is irrelevant.

T

wrote:

If they are charging per kWh, power factor is irrelevant.

T

Tom, the issue is *how* the meter makes a measurement that can be
accurately displayed as "real power" - Watts - what the domestic
customer is billed for.

The device can measure voltage of the supply.
The device can measure current drawn.

That's VA.

To arrive at Watts, it has to calculate (guess, fiddle) what the power
factor is and this is where the over reading inaccuracies result,
especially with low current devices, and cheapo gadgets of this sort.

Power factor of the supply? What's that then?

--
Adrian C

On Fri, 05 Oct 2007 17:17:00 -0700, wrote:

On 5 Oct, 23:51, Rumble wrote:
wrote:

snip

When you measure the power factor, are you measuring it for the device
in question, or are you measuring the average for the neighbourhood?
A plug-in device can only measure it for the load running through it.

Are you suggesting it somehow compensates for the power factor of the
supply automatically?

T

Is this a trick question? The supply doesn't have a power factor; only
the load has a power factor.

It wasn't supposed to be a trick question. The supply has a power
factor by definition. The question is whether it equals unity or not.
Are you implying that a domestic supply is guaranteed to have a power
factor of 1?

T



?????

Not so!

The numerical power factor eg 1, 0.9 etc - is a measure of the phase
angle between the LOAD current and the applied voltage. It is also the
measurement of the ratio of real power and apparent power or the ratio
of watts (W) to voltamperes (VA).

Look at Google:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...ition&ct=title


The power companies worry about the overall power factor of the supply
for obvious reasons.

On 6 Oct, 16:23, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
In article .com,
writes:



On 6 Oct, 09:23, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
In article . com,
writes:

On 5 Oct, 23:51, Rumble wrote:
wrote:

snip

When you measure the power factor, are you measuring it for the device
in question, or are you measuring the average for the neighbourhood?
A plug-in device can only measure it for the load running through it.

Are you suggesting it somehow compensates for the power factor of the
supply automatically?

Is this a trick question? The supply doesn't have a power factor; only
the load has a power factor.

It wasn't supposed to be a trick question. The supply has a power
factor by definition.

In which case you'll have to give your definition, because it
is meaningless with the standard definition of power factor.

Well, it's not _my_ definition it's _the_ definition. Perhaps you
could Google for one?

I am very familiar with the standard definition which applies
to loads, having designed and built a true power meter myself
some 25 years ago, and having explained power factor many times
here over the years.

You'll have to point out a definition of power factor of a
supply, as that's not covered by the standard definition.
Google draws a blank too. The only related thing I could think
of would be a measure of the worse power factor load a particular
supply can drive, but even that's meaningless as supplies
are rated in [k]VA and in many cases can handle worst case
loads with a PF of zero.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

I'm clearly trying to discover whether the power factor I measure is
affected in any way by the electricity network. If you put a purely
resistive load across the supply coming into your house, are you
guaranteed to measure no phase difference between the voltage and the
current? If the phase difference is zero, then the power factor of
your supply is 1.

There's a whole load of stuff on the web about the lengths the
National Grid go to power factor correct their supply. Perhaps you
should ring them to tell them they are wasting their time?

T

wrote in message
ups.com...


I'm clearly trying to discover whether the power factor I measure is
affected in any way by the electricity network. If you put a purely
resistive load across the supply coming into your house, are you
guaranteed to measure no phase difference between the voltage and the
current? If the phase difference is zero, then the power factor of
your supply is 1.

If the load is resistive there is never any phase difference between current
and voltage it is governed by ohms law..

On 6 Oct, 19:52, Adrian C wrote:


Power factor of the supply? What's that then?



It's something the National Grid are obliged to keep within certain
limits: 0.85 lagging - 0.95 leading.

T

On 6 Oct, 20:00, John Evans wrote:
On Fri, 05 Oct 2007 17:17:00 -0700, wrote:
On 5 Oct, 23:51, Rumble wrote:
wrote:


It wasn't supposed to be a trick question. The supply has a power
factor by definition. The question is whether it equals unity or not.
Are you implying that a domestic supply is guaranteed to have a power
factor of 1?

T

?????

Not so!

The numerical power factor eg 1, 0.9 etc - is a measure of the phase
angle between the LOAD current and the applied voltage. It is also the
measurement of the ratio of real power and apparent power or the ratio
of watts (W) to voltamperes (VA).

....


The power companies worry about the overall power factor of the supply
for obvious reasons.

You have just contradicted yourself.

T

wrote:

I'm clearly trying to discover whether the power factor I measure is
affected in any way by the electricity network. If you put a purely

IIUC, it is not effected by the network as such, although it may be
affected by other users of it.

resistive load across the supply coming into your house, are you
guaranteed to measure no phase difference between the voltage and the
current? If the phase difference is zero, then the power factor of
your supply is 1.

With purely resistive loads then it is not an issue. For loads with a
reactive component then the reactive component will typically be the
major influence on the power factor. However the quality of the waveform
that you are supplied with can further influence it.

There's a whole load of stuff on the web about the lengths the
National Grid go to power factor correct their supply. Perhaps you
should ring them to tell them they are wasting their time?

They go to some effort to mitigate the effects their users have on the
supply. A big industrial user (or the cumulative effect of many smaller
ones) pulling large currents from the supply that are not phase aligned
with the voltage, can end up distorting the supply waveform. This leaves
the waveform non sinusoidal and hence introduces other frequency
components into it. These will interact with the reactive elements of
any load differently than would a plain 50Hz supply.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

wrote:
On 6 Oct, 19:52, Adrian C wrote:

Power factor of the supply? What's that then?



It's something the National Grid are obliged to keep within certain
limits: 0.85 lagging - 0.95 leading.

Well sort of...

The concept of power factor only really has any meaning when you know
the characteristics of the load. With a resistive one, the power factor
is 1 regardless of the supply.

What the grid are obliged to do is provide a stable supply, and ensure
that the required true power output of the generating plant is available
to the grid. Obviously this would not be the case if capacity on the
network is going to be absorbed by large reactive currents flowing
around it. They also need to ensure local voltage stabilisation.

The limits you specify above are limits for the *load*. i.e. they must
meet certain performance criteria when the connected load lies within
those limits. With applied loads outside of these limits they are not
required to achieve the same standards.

A distribution system itself will also have a number of reactive
components within it, like the cables (transmission line effects), and
transformers. The effects of these will also need to be compensated for.




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

wrote:

Not so!

The numerical power factor eg 1, 0.9 etc - is a measure of the phase
angle between the LOAD current and the applied voltage. It is also the
measurement of the ratio of real power and apparent power or the ratio
of watts (W) to voltamperes (VA).

....

The power companies worry about the overall power factor of the supply
for obvious reasons.

You have just contradicted yourself.

I think he was just being a bit sloppy with terminology. However it is
worth remembering that the distribution grid is also part of the load.

--
Cheers,

John.

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