"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
'But this is a very efficient replacement for the traditional immersion
heater. We have examined this interesting technology and when we got the
rig operating, we were getting 150 to 200 per cent more energy out than
we put in, without trying too hard. People are sceptical - but somehow
it works

With an immersion heater pretty well all the input energy is converted to
heat. If it isn't - where does it go?

Some of the energy makes noise. It must be a fraction of 1% but I can
usually hear them when they are switched on. The rest makes heat.

So if this device reduces the energy
required to heat water by such a massive amount it's just re-invented the
most basic laws of physics. And only prats like you could believe such a
thing.

"Ya canna break the laws of physics" said Scotty

Adam

In article ,
ARWadsworth wrote:
With an immersion heater pretty well all the input energy is converted to
heat. If it isn't - where does it go?

Some of the energy makes noise. It must be a fraction of 1% but I can
usually hear them when they are switched on. The rest makes heat.

Yes. I'd guess it also produces light of a non visible frequency too. But
combining both will still only amount to a tiny percentage.

--
*24 hours in a day ... 24 beers in a case ... coincidence? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
.uk...

"Ya canna break the laws of physics" said Scotty

These people say you can.

On 2007-09-19 19:36:44 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
.uk...

"Ya canna break the laws of physics" said Scotty

These people say you can.

Do you believe them?

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-09-19 19:36:44 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
.uk...

"Ya canna break the laws of physics" said Scotty

These people say you can.

Do you believe them?

When I buy one.

On 2007-09-19 21:33:00 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message ...
On 2007-09-19 19:36:44 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
.uk...

"Ya canna break the laws of physics" said Scotty

These people say you can.

Do you believe them?

When I buy one.

OK. Why don't you do that, measure the performance and post the results.

In message ,
ARWadsworth writes

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
'But this is a very efficient replacement for the traditional immersion
heater. We have examined this interesting technology and when we got the
rig operating, we were getting 150 to 200 per cent more energy out than
we put in, without trying too hard. People are sceptical - but somehow
it works

With an immersion heater pretty well all the input energy is converted to
heat. If it isn't - where does it go?

Some of the energy makes noise. It must be a fraction of 1% but I can
usually hear them when they are switched on. The rest makes heat.

So if this device reduces the energy
required to heat water by such a massive amount it's just re-invented the
most basic laws of physics. And only prats like you could believe such a
thing.

"Ya canna break the laws of physics" said Scotty

Yes, but as we all know, the laws of physics are different on planet
drivel


--
geoff

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-09-19 21:33:00 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-09-19 19:36:44 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
.uk...

"Ya canna break the laws of physics" said Scotty

These people say you can.

Do you believe them?

When I buy one.

OK. Why don't you do that, measure the performance and post the results.

Matt, it is not for sale yet. Boy you are dumb at times.

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , ARWadsworth
writes

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
'But this is a very efficient replacement for the traditional immersion
heater. We have examined this interesting technology and when we got
the
rig operating, we were getting 150 to 200 per cent more energy out than
we put in, without trying too hard. People are sceptical - but somehow
it works

With an immersion heater pretty well all the input energy is converted
to
heat. If it isn't - where does it go?

Some of the energy makes noise. It must be a fraction of 1% but I can
usually hear them when they are switched on. The rest makes heat.

So if this device reduces the energy
required to heat water by such a massive amount it's just re-invented
the
most basic laws of physics. And only prats like you could believe such a
thing.

"Ya canna break the laws of physics" said Scotty

Yes, but as we all know, the laws of physics are different on planet
drivel

Maxie, I would get rid of them. I wouldn't harbour such tripe.

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-09-19 21:33:00 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message ...
On 2007-09-19 19:36:44 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
.uk...

"Ya canna break the laws of physics" said Scotty

These people say you can.

Do you believe them?

When I buy one.

OK. Why don't you do that, measure the performance and post the results.

He'll just claim he has and quote the ads - same as everything else.

--
*Hard work has a future payoff. Laziness pays off NOW.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 2007-09-19 23:04:12 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message ...
On 2007-09-19 21:33:00 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message ...
On 2007-09-19 19:36:44 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
.uk...

"Ya canna break the laws of physics" said Scotty

These people say you can.

Do you believe them?

When I buy one.

OK. Why don't you do that, measure the performance and post the results.

Matt, it is not for sale yet. Boy you are dumb at times.

I didn't suggest buying one *now*, but will you when they become
available - if they do?

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

Matt, it is not for sale yet. Boy you are dumb at times.

I didn't suggest buying one *now*, but will you when they become
available - if they do?

Say it saves 2/3 of the electricity as resistance heating. That brings it in
line with current gas prices. What cost it is to buy is then important. If
it is a reasonable price to buy then it has advantages of no servicing and
small. It goes well with a thermal store as the company web site shows. It
will also kill heat pumps stone dead, except where the heat pump is
reversible for heat and cool. Even then if using an absorption cooling
system, it may be viable. When gas supplies start to dwindle then this comes
into its own.

It is an over-unity device, if it does what they say, in that it produces
more in energy output that input. Using this surplus and go through an
energy state change may produce turning motion. Then vehicle applications
are then in the frame.

So, as electricity at point of burn is 99% efficient in the energy burnt, in
actuality from generator to point of burn it is only around 1/3 efficient as
2/3 is lost in latent heat losses at the station and line losses. This unit
then makes electricity 100% efficient, from tip to toe. If it is takes les
than 1/3 of resistance heating, say more like 1/6, then this thing is a
clear winner all around. Run the stations with natural gas, phasing down
gas for districts and we will have one clean nation. Then we can concentrate
on getting cars 100% electric and providing the charge cheaply, maybe using
one of these devices.

We shall see.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-09-19 21:33:00 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-09-19 19:36:44 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
said:


"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
.uk...

"Ya canna break the laws of physics" said Scotty

These people say you can.

Do you believe them?

When I buy one.

OK. Why don't you do that, measure the performance and post the results.

He'll

Please eff off as you are total idiot.

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

Matt, it is not for sale yet. Boy you are dumb at times.

I didn't suggest buying one *now*, but will you when they become
available - if they do?

Say it saves 2/3 of the electricity as resistance heating. That brings it
in line with current gas prices. What cost it is to buy is then
important. If it is a reasonable price to buy then it has advantages of
no servicing and small. It goes well with a thermal store as the company
web site shows. It will also kill heat pumps stone dead, except where the
heat pump is reversible for heat and cool. Even then if using an
absorption cooling system, it may be viable. When gas supplies start to
dwindle then this comes into its own.

It is an over-unity device, if it does what they say, in that it produces
more in energy output that input. Using this surplus and go through an
energy state change may produce turning motion. Then vehicle applications
are then in the frame.


There is not, and never will be, an "over-unity" device that produces more
energy out than is consumed. The search for, and belief in, such things are
the desperate scrabblings of the feeble minded, poorly educated or just
plain gullible for an easy fix for our energy needs. Increasing efficiency
of energy usage (either through technology or renewables) or reducing demand
are the only things that make a difference.


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

Bob Mannix wrote:
"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

Matt, it is not for sale yet. Boy you are dumb at times.
I didn't suggest buying one *now*, but will you when they become
available - if they do?
Say it saves 2/3 of the electricity as resistance heating. That brings it
in line with current gas prices. What cost it is to buy is then
important. If it is a reasonable price to buy then it has advantages of
no servicing and small. It goes well with a thermal store as the company
web site shows. It will also kill heat pumps stone dead, except where the
heat pump is reversible for heat and cool. Even then if using an
absorption cooling system, it may be viable. When gas supplies start to
dwindle then this comes into its own.

It is an over-unity device, if it does what they say, in that it produces
more in energy output that input. Using this surplus and go through an
energy state change may produce turning motion. Then vehicle applications
are then in the frame.


There is not, and never will be, an "over-unity" device that produces more
energy out than is consumed.

Well there may be one day, but it won;t be by someone who is fighting
the academic and scientfic community every inch of the way to get a
product to market into a domestic environment.

If there was a hint of reality about this, it would be worth a few
hundred billion dollars, and the bloke would either get a Nobel prize,
or be shot by the oil companies.

The search for, and belief in, such things are
the desperate scrabblings of the feeble minded, poorly educated or just
plain gullible for an easy fix for our energy needs. Increasing efficiency
of energy usage (either through technology or renewables) or reducing demand
are the only things that make a difference.

Precisely.

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

Matt, it is not for sale yet. Boy you are dumb at times.

I didn't suggest buying one *now*, but will you when they become
available - if they do?

Say it saves 2/3 of the electricity as resistance heating. That brings it
in line with current gas prices. What cost it is to buy is then
important. If it is a reasonable price to buy then it has advantages of
no servicing and small. It goes well with a thermal store as the company
web site shows. It will also kill heat pumps stone dead, except where
the heat pump is reversible for heat and cool. Even then if using an
absorption cooling system, it may be viable. When gas supplies start to
dwindle then this comes into its own.

It is an over-unity device, if it does what they say, in that it produces
more in energy output that input. Using this surplus and go through an
energy state change may produce turning motion. Then vehicle applications
are then in the frame.


There is not, and never will be, an "over-unity" device that produces more
energy out than is consumed. The search for, and belief in, such things
are the desperate scrabblings of the feeble minded, poorly educated or
just plain gullible for an easy fix for our energy needs.

Have you told York University all this?

Increasing efficiency of energy usage (either through technology or
renewables) or reducing demand are the only things that make a difference.

They can indeed.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Bob Mannix wrote:
"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

Matt, it is not for sale yet. Boy you are dumb at times.
I didn't suggest buying one *now*, but will you when they become
available - if they do?
Say it saves 2/3 of the electricity as resistance heating. That brings
it in line with current gas prices. What cost it is to buy is then
important. If it is a reasonable price to buy then it has advantages of
no servicing and small. It goes well with a thermal store as the
company web site shows. It will also kill heat pumps stone dead, except
where the heat pump is reversible for heat and cool. Even then if using
an absorption cooling system, it may be viable. When gas supplies start
to dwindle then this comes into its own.

It is an over-unity device, if it does what they say, in that it
produces more in energy output that input. Using this surplus and go
through an energy state change may produce turning motion. Then vehicle
applications are then in the frame.


There is not, and never will be, an "over-unity" device that produces
more energy out than is consumed.

Well there may be one day, but it won;t be by someone who is fighting the
academic and scientfic community every inch of the way to get a product to
market into a domestic environment.

It appears this man has had an easy ride.

If there was a hint of reality about this, it would be worth a few hundred
billion dollars, and the bloke would either get a Nobel prize, or be shot
by the oil companies.

They money will flood in.....if it does what they say If a uni had been
heavily involved then the technology is out, so not worth shooting him. It
does not give anything for nothing as such. Energy has to be used to make it
go, so the oil people are safe.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Bob Mannix wrote:
"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

Matt, it is not for sale yet. Boy you are dumb at times.
I didn't suggest buying one *now*, but will you when they become
available - if they do?
Say it saves 2/3 of the electricity as resistance heating. That brings
it in line with current gas prices. What cost it is to buy is then
important. If it is a reasonable price to buy then it has advantages of
no servicing and small. It goes well with a thermal store as the
company web site shows. It will also kill heat pumps stone dead, except
where the heat pump is reversible for heat and cool. Even then if using
an absorption cooling system, it may be viable. When gas supplies start
to dwindle then this comes into its own.

It is an over-unity device, if it does what they say, in that it
produces more in energy output that input. Using this surplus and go
through an energy state change may produce turning motion. Then vehicle
applications are then in the frame.


There is not, and never will be, an "over-unity" device that produces
more energy out than is consumed.

Well there may be one day, but it won;t be by someone who is fighting the
academic and scientfic community every inch of the way to get a product to
market into a domestic environment.

Well, no there won't but your general point is well taken about bringing
things that are possible to market!

There is no way of "making" energy, you can only convert it from one form to
another.


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

Matt, it is not for sale yet. Boy you are dumb at times.

I didn't suggest buying one *now*, but will you when they become
available - if they do?

Say it saves 2/3 of the electricity as resistance heating. That brings
it in line with current gas prices. What cost it is to buy is then
important. If it is a reasonable price to buy then it has advantages of
no servicing and small. It goes well with a thermal store as the
company web site shows. It will also kill heat pumps stone dead, except
where the heat pump is reversible for heat and cool. Even then if using
an absorption cooling system, it may be viable. When gas supplies start
to dwindle then this comes into its own.

It is an over-unity device, if it does what they say, in that it
produces more in energy output that input. Using this surplus and go
through an energy state change may produce turning motion. Then vehicle
applications are then in the frame.


There is not, and never will be, an "over-unity" device that produces
more energy out than is consumed. The search for, and belief in, such
things are the desperate scrabblings of the feeble minded, poorly
educated or just plain gullible for an easy fix for our energy needs.

Have you told York University all this?


Au contraire, I find it a little suprising that a "discovery" that disproves
the laws of thermodynamics that correctly describe the operation of energy
throught the universe - a discovery that would set all known science aside -
fails to rate even a mention on their website!


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...

Say it saves 2/3 of the electricity as resistance heating. That brings
it in line with current gas prices. What cost it is to buy is then
important. If it is a reasonable price to buy then it has advantages
of no servicing and small. It goes well with a thermal store as the
company web site shows. It will also kill heat pumps stone dead,
except where the heat pump is reversible for heat and cool. Even then
if using an absorption cooling system, it may be viable. When gas
supplies start to dwindle then this comes into its own.

It is an over-unity device, if it does what they say, in that it
produces more in energy output that input. Using this surplus and go
through an energy state change may produce turning motion. Then vehicle
applications are then in the frame.


There is not, and never will be, an "over-unity" device that produces
more energy out than is consumed. The search for, and belief in, such
things are the desperate scrabblings of the feeble minded, poorly
educated or just plain gullible for an easy fix for our energy needs.

Have you told York University all this?

Au contraire, I find it a little suprising that a "discovery" that
disproves the laws of thermodynamics that correctly describe the operation
of energy throught the universe -

There is your problem. You believe that these laws cover all explanations of
matter/energy, etc. Any scientist who knows his stuff will tell you that
these laws are man made and explain about 10% of matter. The top British
scientist in that Swiss atom big circle pipe, only recently on TV said that.

a discovery that would set all known science aside - fails to rate even a
mention on their website!

Could be a non-disclosure agreement. This company did give money to York
Uni for research, a Google brings that out. York uni are highly rated as
well. Best to look at this as if the bottle if half full rather than half
empty. Have an open mind - say, nice idea now prove it to me. The man at
the uni who is involved is real too.

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...

There is no way of "making" energy, you can only convert it from one form
to another.

This device doesn't claim to "make" energy. There is energy all around us -
it may be tapping into that somehow. As the report says, York Uni know what
it is doing, however don't exactly know how.

Some Scientists, even if the thing works in front of them will disbelieve if
they can't put numbers to it. Look at the ridicule of Eric Laithwaite by
the established scientific community who carry the laws of physics around
with them in their cases - he even invented the linear motor and Maglev
train. He dared to say to them that something was happening in an
experiment, outside the known laws of physics. Shock! Horror!!

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...

There is no way of "making" energy, you can only convert it from one form
to another.

This device doesn't claim to "make" energy. There is energy all around
us - it may be tapping into that somehow.

Although this is impossible anyway, lets suppose it was. It is not then an
over unity device and is not producing more energy than is put in (which is
claiming to "make" energy), it would just be getting it from somewhere else.

As the report says, York Uni know what
it is doing

which is why they don't talk about it.

, however don't exactly know how.

Some Scientists, even if the thing works in front of them will disbelieve
if they can't put numbers to it. Look at the ridicule of Eric Laithwaite
by the established scientific community who carry the laws of physics
around with them in their cases - he even invented the linear motor and
Maglev train. He dared to say to them that something was happening in an
experiment, outside the known laws of physics. Shock! Horror!!

The linear motor and the Maglev train never were outside the laws of
physics, they just thought they couldn't be made to work in an engineering
sense.


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...

Say it saves 2/3 of the electricity as resistance heating. That brings
it in line with current gas prices. What cost it is to buy is then
important. If it is a reasonable price to buy then it has advantages
of no servicing and small. It goes well with a thermal store as the
company web site shows. It will also kill heat pumps stone dead,
except where the heat pump is reversible for heat and cool. Even then
if using an absorption cooling system, it may be viable. When gas
supplies start to dwindle then this comes into its own.

It is an over-unity device, if it does what they say, in that it
produces more in energy output that input. Using this surplus and go
through an energy state change may produce turning motion. Then
vehicle applications are then in the frame.


There is not, and never will be, an "over-unity" device that produces
more energy out than is consumed. The search for, and belief in, such
things are the desperate scrabblings of the feeble minded, poorly
educated or just plain gullible for an easy fix for our energy needs.

Have you told York University all this?

Au contraire, I find it a little suprising that a "discovery" that
disproves the laws of thermodynamics that correctly describe the
operation of energy throught the universe -

There is your problem. You believe that these laws cover all explanations
of matter/energy, etc. Any scientist who knows his stuff will tell you
that these laws are man made and explain about 10% of matter. The top
British scientist in that Swiss atom big circle pipe, only recently on TV
said that.

If you are referring to CERN, I think you may find he was referring to "dark
matter", which fills up the spaces between galaxies, and not water heating!


a discovery that would set all known science aside - fails to rate even a
mention on their website!

Could be a non-disclosure agreement.

This company did give money to York Uni for research, a Google brings that
out. York uni are highly rated as well.

Which is why they don't mention it, to preserve their reputation and rating.

Best to look at this as if the bottle if half full rather than half empty.
Have an open mind - say, nice idea now prove it to me. The man at the uni
who is involved is real too.

There is no bottle, you are admiring the emperor's new clothes.


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...

There is no way of "making" energy, you can only convert it from one
form to another.

This device doesn't claim to "make" energy. There is energy all around
us - it may be tapping into that somehow.

Although this is impossible anyway,

Under what authority do you base that on? Don't say laws of physics please.
radio waves is not energy all around us? Tesla was working on it until he
died.

lets suppose it was. It is not then an over unity device and is not
producing more energy than is put in (which is claiming to "make" energy),
it would just be getting it from somewhere else.

You are right it would not be an over-unity device as our understanding
would have been raised a level or two. As we understand over-unity today it
would be.

See through the Daily Mail tabloid tripe too. Despicable paper.

As the report says, York Uni know what
it is doing

which is why they don't talk about it.

Maybe they know more than they are letting on.

, however don't exactly know how.

Some Scientists, even if the thing works in front of them will disbelieve
if they can't put numbers to it. Look at the ridicule of Eric Laithwaite
by the established scientific community who carry the laws of physics
around with them in their cases - he even invented the linear motor and
Maglev train. He dared to say to them that something was happening in an
experiment, outside the known laws of physics. Shock! Horror!!

The linear motor and the Maglev train never were outside the laws of
physics, they just thought they couldn't be made to work in an engineering
sense.

I never said it was - but he a had a great inventive track record was
ridiculed in other tests. Laithwaite went into giros and the likes, and was
then ridiculed. he spend years putting his experiments in to the laws -
probably frigged it to satisfy them.

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...

Say it saves 2/3 of the electricity as resistance heating. That
brings it in line with current gas prices. What cost it is to buy is
then important. If it is a reasonable price to buy then it has
advantages of no servicing and small. It goes well with a thermal
store as the company web site shows. It will also kill heat pumps
stone dead, except where the heat pump is reversible for heat and
cool. Even then if using an absorption cooling system, it may be
viable. When gas supplies start to dwindle then this comes into its
own.

It is an over-unity device, if it does what they say, in that it
produces more in energy output that input. Using this surplus and go
through an energy state change may produce turning motion. Then
vehicle applications are then in the frame.


There is not, and never will be, an "over-unity" device that produces
more energy out than is consumed. The search for, and belief in, such
things are the desperate scrabblings of the feeble minded, poorly
educated or just plain gullible for an easy fix for our energy needs.

Have you told York University all this?

Au contraire, I find it a little suprising that a "discovery" that
disproves the laws of thermodynamics that correctly describe the
operation of energy throught the universe -

There is your problem. You believe that these laws cover all explanations
of matter/energy, etc. Any scientist who knows his stuff will tell you
that these laws are man made and explain about 10% of matter. The top
British scientist in that Swiss atom big circle pipe, only recently on TV
said that.

If you are referring to CERN, I think you may find he was referring to
"dark matter", which fills up the spaces between galaxies, and not water
heating!

He was speaking in general of our understanding of how matter, etc worked.

a discovery that would set all known science aside - fails to rate even
a mention on their website!

Could be a non-disclosure agreement.

This company did give money to York Uni for research, a Google brings
that out. York uni are highly rated as well.

Which is why they don't mention it, to preserve their reputation and
rating.

Then they give sound bites to the press.

Best to look at this as if the bottle if half full rather than half
empty. Have an open mind - say, nice idea now prove it to me. The man at
the uni who is involved is real too.

There is no bottle, you are admiring the emperor's new clothes.

You can't even see the emperor, at least I see him naked.

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...

There is no way of "making" energy, you can only convert it from one
form to another.

This device doesn't claim to "make" energy. There is energy all around
us - it may be tapping into that somehow.

Although this is impossible anyway,

Under what authority do you base that on? Don't say laws of physics
please. radio waves is not energy all around us? Tesla was working on it
until he died.

lets suppose it was. It is not then an over unity device and is not
producing more energy than is put in (which is claiming to "make"
energy), it would just be getting it from somewhere else.

You are right it would not be an over-unity device as our understanding
would have been raised a level or two. As we understand over-unity today
it would be.

See through the Daily Mail tabloid tripe too. Despicable paper.

As the report says, York Uni know what
it is doing

which is why they don't talk about it.

Maybe they know more than they are letting on.

, however don't exactly know how.

Some Scientists, even if the thing works in front of them will
disbelieve if they can't put numbers to it. Look at the ridicule of
Eric Laithwaite by the established scientific community who carry the
laws of physics around with them in their cases - he even invented the
linear motor and Maglev train. He dared to say to them that something
was happening in an experiment, outside the known laws of physics.
Shock! Horror!!

The linear motor and the Maglev train never were outside the laws of
physics, they just thought they couldn't be made to work in an
engineering sense.

I never said it was -

I refer to *your* line quoted a few lines above here "...something was
happening in an experiment, outside the known laws of physics..."


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:10:24 +0100, "Bob Mannix"
wrote:


"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
freenews.net...

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...

There is no way of "making" energy, you can only convert it from one
form to another.

This device doesn't claim to "make" energy. There is energy all around
us - it may be tapping into that somehow.

Although this is impossible anyway,

Under what authority do you base that on? Don't say laws of physics
please. radio waves is not energy all around us? Tesla was working on it
until he died.

lets suppose it was. It is not then an over unity device and is not
producing more energy than is put in (which is claiming to "make"
energy), it would just be getting it from somewhere else.

You are right it would not be an over-unity device as our understanding
would have been raised a level or two. As we understand over-unity today
it would be.

See through the Daily Mail tabloid tripe too. Despicable paper.

As the report says, York Uni know what
it is doing

which is why they don't talk about it.

Maybe they know more than they are letting on.

, however don't exactly know how.

Some Scientists, even if the thing works in front of them will
disbelieve if they can't put numbers to it. Look at the ridicule of
Eric Laithwaite by the established scientific community who carry the
laws of physics around with them in their cases - he even invented the
linear motor and Maglev train. He dared to say to them that something
was happening in an experiment, outside the known laws of physics.
Shock! Horror!!

The linear motor and the Maglev train never were outside the laws of
physics, they just thought they couldn't be made to work in an
engineering sense.

I never said it was -

I refer to *your* line quoted a few lines above here "...something was
happening in an experiment, outside the known laws of physics..."

How long before dribble invokes his plantpot comparison routine?



--
Regards, Paul Herber, Sandrila Ltd.
Electronics for Visio http://www.electronics.sandrila.co.uk/

"Paul Herber" wrote in message
ell.net...

How long before dribble invokes his plantpot comparison routine?

Right now.. what a plantpot!!!

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
ARWadsworth wrote:
With an immersion heater pretty well all the input energy is converted
to
heat. If it isn't - where does it go?

Some of the energy makes noise. It must be a fraction of 1% but I can
usually hear them when they are switched on. The rest makes heat.

Yes. I'd guess it also produces light of a non visible frequency too.

I cannot see that happening :-)

Still at least 99.9% efficient though.

Adam

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Say it saves 2/3 of the electricity as resistance heating.

It can't, you pillock. Near 100% of the electricity is already converted
into heat. If it saves on electricity it is getting energy from elsewhere.

--
*All those who believe in psychokinesis, raise my hand *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Bob Mannix wrote:
Well there may be one day, but it won;t be by someone who is fighting
the academic and scientfic community every inch of the way to get a
product to market into a domestic environment.

Well, no there won't but your general point is well taken about bringing
things that are possible to market!

There is no way of "making" energy, you can only convert it from one
form to another.

No point in trying to educate dribble. He already believes boilers can be
more than 100% efficient and argues thus - despite how this figure is
arrived at being explained to him.

--
*What happens if you get scared half to death twice? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Au contraire, I find it a little suprising that a "discovery" that
disproves the laws of thermodynamics that correctly describe the
operation of energy throught the universe -

There is your problem. You believe that these laws cover all
explanations of matter/energy, etc. Any scientist who knows his stuff
will tell you that these laws are man made and explain about 10% of
matter. The top British scientist in that Swiss atom big circle pipe,
only recently on TV said that.

Certain 'laws' of physics have been overturned - the most famous which did
this was perhaps the theory of relativity. But in practical terms it was
splitting hairs. Not turning an efficiency of near 100% into 300% or
whatever daft amount you've been conned by again.

--
*'Progress' and 'Change' are not synonyms.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Under what authority do you base that on? Don't say laws of physics
please. radio waves is not energy all around us? Tesla was working on
it until he died.

Radio waves are produced by a transmitter which is powered by electricity.
You could harness those for other purposes but would remove those waves
from others use in that area. You'd also need an enormous aerial array.
And the transmitting company would sue you for stealing their power and
win - as has been done before. If you mean naturally occurring radio waves
these are so small as to be useless to power anything.

--
*Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Say it saves 2/3 of the electricity as resistance heating.

It

Please eff off as you are a total idiot.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Bob Mannix wrote:
Well there may be one day, but it won;t be by someone who is fighting
the academic and scientfic community every inch of the way to get a
product to market into a domestic environment.

Well, no there won't but your general point is well taken about bringing
things that are possible to market!

There is no way of "making" energy, you can only convert it from one
form to another.

No

Please eff off as you are a total idiot.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Au contraire, I find it a little suprising that a "discovery" that
disproves the laws of thermodynamics that correctly describe the
operation of energy throught the universe -

There is your problem. You believe that these laws cover all
explanations of matter/energy, etc. Any scientist who knows his stuff
will tell you that these laws are man made and explain about 10% of
matter. The top British scientist in that Swiss atom big circle pipe,
only recently on TV said that.

Certain

Please eff off as you are a total idiot.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Under what authority do you base that on? Don't say laws of physics
please. radio waves is not energy all around us? Tesla was working on
it until he died.

Radio

Please eff off as you are a total idiot.

On 20 Sep, 08:45, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message

...

Matt, it is not for sale yet. Boy you are dumb at times.

I didn't suggest buying one *now*, but will you when they become
available - if they do?

Say it saves 2/3 of the electricity as resistance heating. That brings it in
line with current gas prices. What cost it is to buy is then important. If
it is a reasonable price to buy then it has advantages of no servicing and
small. It goes well with a thermal store as the company web site shows. It
will also kill heat pumps stone dead, except where the heat pump is
reversible for heat and cool. Even then if using an absorption cooling
system, it may be viable. When gas supplies start to dwindle then this comes
into its own.

It is an over-unity device, if it does what they say, in that it produces
more in energy output that input. Using this surplus and go through an
energy state change may produce turning motion. Then vehicle applications
are then in the frame.

So, as electricity at point of burn is 99% efficient in the energy burnt, in
actuality from generator to point of burn it is only around 1/3 efficient as
2/3 is lost in latent heat losses at the station and line losses. This unit
then makes electricity 100% efficient, from tip to toe. If it is takes les
than 1/3 of resistance heating, say more like 1/6, then this thing is a
clear winner all around. Run the stations with natural gas, phasing down
gas for districts and we will have one clean nation. Then we can concentrate
on getting cars 100% electric and providing the charge cheaply, maybe using
one of these devices.

We shall see.

An over unity device

Is that the latest euphemism?

Do you have the URL for that latest cut and paste so that we can read
the rest of it?

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Bob Mannix wrote:
Well there may be one day, but it won;t be by someone who is fighting
the academic and scientfic community every inch of the way to get a
product to market into a domestic environment.

Well, no there won't but your general point is well taken about bringing
things that are possible to market!

There is no way of "making" energy, you can only convert it from one
form to another.

No point in trying to educate dribble. He already believes boilers can be
more than 100% efficient and argues thus - despite how this figure is
arrived at being explained to him.

.... which is why I'm not getting drawn into this


--
geoff

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Bob Mannix wrote:
Well there may be one day, but it won;t be by someone who is fighting
the academic and scientfic community every inch of the way to get a
product to market into a domestic environment.

Well, no there won't but your general point is well taken about bringing
things that are possible to market!

There is no way of "making" energy, you can only convert it from one
form to another.

No point in trying to educate dribble. He already believes boilers can be
more than 100% efficient and argues thus - despite how this figure is
arrived at being explained to him.

... which is why I'm not getting drawn into this

Maxie, you are wise to ignore an idiot.