In message ews.net,
Doctor Drivel writes

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Bob Mannix wrote:
Well there may be one day, but it won;t be by someone who is fighting
the academic and scientfic community every inch of the way to get a
product to market into a domestic environment.

Well, no there won't but your general point is well taken about bringing
things that are possible to market!

There is no way of "making" energy, you can only convert it from one
form to another.

No point in trying to educate dribble. He already believes boilers can be
more than 100% efficient and argues thus - despite how this figure is
arrived at being explained to him.

... which is why I'm not getting drawn into this

Maxie, you are wise to ignore an idiot.

Have you not noticed that I mostly ignore you ?

you're a clueless ****wit


--
geoff

" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 20 Sep, 08:45, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message

...

Matt, it is not for sale yet. Boy you are dumb at times.

I didn't suggest buying one *now*, but will you when they become
available - if they do?

Say it saves 2/3 of the electricity as resistance heating. That brings it
in
line with current gas prices. What cost it is to buy is then important.
If
it is a reasonable price to buy then it has advantages of no servicing
and
small. It goes well with a thermal store as the company web site shows.
It
will also kill heat pumps stone dead, except where the heat pump is
reversible for heat and cool. Even then if using an absorption cooling
system, it may be viable. When gas supplies start to dwindle then this
comes
into its own.

It is an over-unity device, if it does what they say, in that it produces
more in energy output that input. Using this surplus and go through an
energy state change may produce turning motion. Then vehicle applications
are then in the frame.

So, as electricity at point of burn is 99% efficient in the energy burnt,
in
actuality from generator to point of burn it is only around 1/3 efficient
as
2/3 is lost in latent heat losses at the station and line losses. This
unit
then makes electricity 100% efficient, from tip to toe. If it is takes
les
than 1/3 of resistance heating, say more like 1/6, then this thing is a
clear winner all around. Run the stations with natural gas, phasing down
gas for districts and we will have one clean nation. Then we can
concentrate
on getting cars 100% electric and providing the charge cheaply, maybe
using
one of these devices.

We shall see.

An over unity device

Is that the latest euphemism?

Do you have the URL for that latest cut and paste so that we can read
the rest of it?

http://www.overunity.com/

I've only spent a few minutes looking at it, but it looks like the ultimate
forum on these issues. It's so weird that you almost think its an elaborate
bit of conceptual art - I fear it's not.

Andy

"Andy McKenzie" wrote in message
...

http://www.overunity.com/

I've only spent a few minutes looking at it, but it looks like the
ultimate forum on these issues. It's so weird that you almost think its an
elaborate bit of conceptual art - I fear it's not.

There are a number of Yahoo groups on these matters: free energy,
over-unity, etc. There are 1000s of people working all over the world on
many types of devices. One day, maybe.....

Perpetual motion machines and "free energy" are not the same thing. A heat
pump gives out 3 to 4 times more energy than it consumes. Is it Perpetual
motion? Er, er, no. Is it a free energy device? No. A free energy device
has no energy input. Is it over-unity? Er, no, it is moving heat. It is a
semi free energy device though, as its input, electricity and heat is only
partially free - the heat.

perpetual motion is the output fed back to the input and it keeps going. I
recall the largest moving land machine in the world - German strip mining
machine run on 36 electric motors. It strips the surface of the earth and
takes in coal (energy) this goes down a flexible conveyor belt and to a
local power station. The machine has a long flexible power lead from the
grid which is fed from the local power station. A perpetual motion
machine? Probably, as the output is fed back to the input to keep it running
(although men have to operate it)

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Andy McKenzie" wrote in message
...

http://www.overunity.com/

I've only spent a few minutes looking at it, but it looks like the
ultimate forum on these issues. It's so weird that you almost think its
an
elaborate bit of conceptual art - I fear it's not.

There are a number of Yahoo groups on these matters: free energy,
over-unity, etc. There are 1000s of people working all over the world on
many types of devices. One day, maybe.....

Perpetual motion machines and "free energy" are not the same thing. A
heat
pump gives out 3 to 4 times more energy than it consumes. Is it Perpetual
motion? Er, er, no. Is it a free energy device? No. A free energy
device
has no energy input. Is it over-unity? Er, no, it is moving heat. It is
a
semi free energy device though, as its input, electricity and heat is only
partially free - the heat.

perpetual motion is the output fed back to the input and it keeps going. I
recall the largest moving land machine in the world - German strip mining
machine run on 36 electric motors. It strips the surface of the earth and
takes in coal (energy) this goes down a flexible conveyor belt and to a
local power station. The machine has a long flexible power lead from the
grid which is fed from the local power station. A perpetual motion
machine? Probably, as the output is fed back to the input to keep it
running
(although men have to operate it)


It is not a perpetual motion machine as the coal will run out (leaving aside
any other efficiency questions). Chemical energy (in the coal, which comes
before that as heat from the sun and before that from nuclear energy in the
sun) is temporarily locked up in the coal and is converted to electrical
energy. It would only be perpetual motion if the coal was being replaced and
the sun never died. In reality it is just a machine which is using our
supplies of concentrated energy (in the form of coal) and dissipating it out
into space as waste heat not easily recoverable (increasing entropy) in the
rather pointless task of digging up its own energy.

Perpetual motion machines have no other inputs (and don't exist).

The fact that the sun will run down and all life on earth will perish and
the question of what happened at the start of the universe (and what will
happen at the end) are all very interesting (and, in the case of the last
two, not understood) but not really relevant to life on earth at present!


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
I recall the largest moving land machine in the world - German strip
mining machine run on 36 electric motors. It strips the surface of the
earth and takes in coal (energy) this goes down a flexible conveyor belt
and to a local power station. The machine has a long flexible power lead
from the grid which is fed from the local power station. A perpetual
motion machine? Probably, as the output is fed back to the input to keep
it running (although men have to operate it)

Thanks for demonstrating your lack of understanding of physics once more.
That device runs on the energy produced by burning some of the coal it
transports. Or perhaps you'd think a diesel tanker powered by perpetual
motion too since it carries more fuel than it uses?

--
*There are two sides to every divorce: Yours and **** head's*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
I recall the largest moving land machine in the world - German strip
mining machine run on 36 electric motors. It strips the surface of the
earth and takes in coal (energy) this goes down a flexible conveyor belt
and to a local power station. The machine has a long flexible power lead
from the grid which is fed from the local power station. A perpetual
motion machine? Probably, as the output is fed back to the input to keep
it running (although men have to operate it)

Thanks for demonstrating your lack of understanding of physics once more.
That device runs on the energy produced by burning some of the coal it
transports. Or perhaps you'd think a diesel tanker powered by perpetual
motion too since it carries more fuel than it uses?

That sounds like a Priapus..allright ;-)

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
I recall the largest moving land machine in the world - German strip
mining machine run on 36 electric motors. It strips the surface of the
earth and takes in coal (energy) this goes down a flexible conveyor belt
and to a local power station. The machine has a long flexible power lead
from the grid which is fed from the local power station. A perpetual
motion machine? Probably, as the output is fed back to the input to keep
it running (although men have to operate it)

Thanks

Please eff off as you are a total idiot.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
I recall the largest moving land machine in the world - German strip
mining machine run on 36 electric motors. It strips the surface of
the earth and takes in coal (energy) this goes down a flexible
conveyor belt and to a local power station. The machine has a long
flexible power lead from the grid which is fed from the local power
station. A perpetual motion machine? Probably, as the output is
fed back to the input to keep it running (although men have to
operate it)


Thanks for demonstrating your lack of understanding of physics once
more. That device runs on the energy produced by burning some of the
coal it transports. Or perhaps you'd think a diesel tanker powered by
perpetual motion too since it carries more fuel than it uses?


Please eff off as you are a total idiot.

The laugh is that everyone who reads the above will understand who the
true idiot is, dribble.

Hint. A reasonable definition of perpetual motion is one that continues
indefinitely without any source of external power. Or coal converted to
electricity, as in your 'example'.
I'd expect a 10 year old of reasonable intelligence to grasp this easily.

--
*Despite the cost of living, have you noticed how it remains so popular?*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
I recall the largest moving land machine in the world - German strip
mining machine run on 36 electric motors. It strips the surface of
the earth and takes in coal (energy) this goes down a flexible
conveyor belt and to a local power station. The machine has a long
flexible power lead from the grid which is fed from the local power
station. A perpetual motion machine? Probably, as the output is
fed back to the input to keep it running (although men have to
operate it)


Thanks

Please eff off as you are a total idiot.