I am getting a pumped electric shower for a gravity-fed system. The
reviews I've seen for the Mira Elite 2 and Triton T80Si pumped/T90si
tend to say they are terribly noisy.

Does anyone have any experience with these?

Thanks
Roger

Roger Moss wrote:
I am getting a pumped electric shower for a gravity-fed system. The
reviews I've seen for the Mira Elite 2 and Triton T80Si pumped/T90si
tend to say they are terribly noisy.

Does anyone have any experience with these?

Thanks
Roger
All pumped showers are crap.

On 7 Jun, 10:32, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Roger Moss wrote:
I am getting a pumped electric shower for a gravity-fed system. The
reviews I've seen for the Mira Elite 2 and Triton T80Si pumped/T90si
tend to say they are terribly noisy.

Does anyone have any experience with these?

Thanks
Roger

All pumped showers are crap.

In what way?

My Aqualisa Quartz gives a very satisfying shower, given that we have
a conventional stored hot water system and the water tank is only
about 1 foot above the bathroom ceiling, what else would you suggest
as a better option?

Roger Moss wrote:
I am getting a pumped electric shower for a gravity-fed system. The
reviews I've seen for the Mira Elite 2 and Triton T80Si pumped/T90si
tend to say they are terribly noisy.

Does anyone have any experience with these?

Thanks
Roger

As an alternative, can one install a booster pump for the cold supply
and an ordinary electric shower? Or will a booster pump seize up if the
hot water side is running dry?
-Roger

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 10:32:10 +0100 someone who may be The Natural
Philosopher wrote this:-

All pumped showers are crap.

Ah, proof by assertion.

In what way are all of them crap?


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Roger Moss wrote:

As an alternative, can one install a booster pump for the cold supply
and an ordinary electric shower?

They are intended to run from mains cold water rather than tanked
(although there are some that might cope with tanked if there is a
reasonable head).

Probably not worth the hassle though, since not only would you need to
lay on a new cold mains feed, but also all the wiring for the shower
(which typically costs more than the shower itself!) Even when done you
would end up with a very poorly performing shower in comparison to a
pumped mixer solution.

Or will a booster pump seize up if the
hot water side is running dry?

you can get single impeller pumps designed to pump just one supply.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

wrote:
On 7 Jun, 10:32, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Roger Moss wrote:
I am getting a pumped electric shower for a gravity-fed system. The
reviews I've seen for the Mira Elite 2 and Triton T80Si pumped/T90si
tend to say they are terribly noisy.
Does anyone have any experience with these?
Thanks
Roger
All pumped showers are crap.

In what way?

My Aqualisa Quartz gives a very satisfying shower, given that we have
a conventional stored hot water system and the water tank is only
about 1 foot above the bathroom ceiling, what else would you suggest
as a better option?



Almost anything else.
Even a combi..

David Hansen wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 10:32:10 +0100 someone who may be The Natural
Philosopher wrote this:-

All pumped showers are crap.

Ah, proof by assertion.

In what way are all of them crap?


Sooner or later you run into heat flow issues which limits the
rate/duration of the shower.

You may even suck hot tanks dry.

Consider:

If the shower is electrically heated and pumped, there is an upper limit
on how aft the water can be heated. Probably around 7KW or so. Even the
worst combi does better than that.

If the shower is pumped from a low pressure hot water tank there is a
limit to how long you can use it before the tank empties due to the fact
that a float valve in whatever header it uses can't fill it up fast
enough to keep up. Good way to introduce air locks and with an
electrical immersion heater, blow the elements.

If its pumped on the hot side only and the pump fails to start, you will
blow high pressure cold back into the tank and header as well.

Unless you have a huge header tank, and pump both hot and cold, my
considered opinion is you will never get a decent shower out of any
pumped system. AND they are noisy.

If you want decent flow rates for just a single occupancy place, use a
combi. Otherwise fit a pressurised HW tank.

Electric showers may tick the box in the estate agents charts, but they
never produce what I would call a proper shower.

"Roger Moss" "rwm2 [at] rwmoss.gotadsl.co.uk" wrote in message
...

As an alternative, can one install a booster pump for the cold supply and
an ordinary electric shower? Or will a booster pump seize up if the hot
water side is running dry?

We've got a pump which does that - designed for just that I think. Works
fine, if a bit noisy. I'd go for a pumped mixer or combi if I had the choice
though - instant electric showers are a bit underpowered.

cheers,
clive

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 12:40:05 +0100 someone who may be The Natural
Philosopher wrote this:-

In what way are all of them crap?

Sooner or later you run into heat flow issues which limits the
rate/duration of the shower.

That is the nature of stored heat. However, the art of design is to
match the store to the likely demand.

You may even suck hot tanks dry.

Hot tanks? I suppose one might find a few hot tanks still left in
the UK, but few (if any) outside a museum. If you mean a cylinder,
calorifier, or shell and tube heat exchanger, see above.

If the shower is electrically heated and pumped, there is an upper limit
on how aft the water can be heated.

How "aft" the water can be heated? Sorry, I don't follow.

Probably around 7KW or so. Even the
worst combi does better than that.

Instant electric heaters are available in many ratings. However, I'm
not sure how they come into a discussion on pumped showers.

If the shower is pumped from a low pressure hot water tank there is a
limit to how long you can use it before the tank empties due to the fact
that a float valve in whatever header it uses can't fill it up fast
enough to keep up.

If you mean a hot water cylinder and cold water header tank then if
the latter cannot supply water continuously it is not a good design.
Obviously at some point the water may run cold, but see above.

However, even if it does run out of water that does not mean that
the cylinder empties, due to the design of pipework.

Good way to introduce air locks

In such circumstances, only if the pipework is badly designed and
installed.

and with an electrical immersion heater, blow the elements.

Only if one manages to empty the cylinder. This is rather difficult,
because the pump will draw air down the expansion pipe rather than
empty the cylinder. This is basic physics.

If its pumped on the hot side only and the pump fails to start, you will
blow high pressure cold back into the tank and header as well.

If the pipework is badly designed.

Unless you have a huge header tank, and pump both hot and cold, my
considered opinion is you will never get a decent shower out of any
pumped system.

This is just proof by assertion again. I note that none of the
points you made earlier were about how "decent" the shower is.

AND they are noisy.

The pumps can be a trifle noisy, but this is no great hardship if
they are located properly.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

If the shower is electrically heated and pumped, there is an upper limit
on how aft the water can be heated. Probably around 7KW or so. Even the
worst combi does better than that.

10.5kW is quite common. Still pants compared to most other solutions though.

If the shower is pumped from a low pressure hot water tank there is a
limit to how long you can use it before the tank empties due to the fact
that a float valve in whatever header it uses can't fill it up fast

If your rising main can deliver it fast enough, then a couple of
fluidmasters will sort that problem,

enough to keep up. Good way to introduce air locks and with an
electrical immersion heater, blow the elements.

That last bit does not make sense. You can't pump the hot cylinder dry
since the water comes out of the top of it. Once the cold cistern stops
replenishing it then the water stops coming out. If you try to pump it
out you will just suck air through it, but it will remain full of water.

If its pumped on the hot side only and the pump fails to start, you will
blow high pressure cold back into the tank and header as well.

Unless you stick a non return valve before the pump.

Unless you have a huge header tank, and pump both hot and cold, my
considered opinion is you will never get a decent shower out of any
pumped system. AND they are noisy.

I have found that a Stuart Turner pump located in the airing cupboard is
hardly audible when you are in the shower. Mounted carefully there
should not be too much noise through the rest of the house.

If you want decent flow rates for just a single occupancy place, use a
combi. Otherwise fit a pressurised HW tank.

If your cold main can't keep up with filling your loft tank, then it is
not going to be much better here is it?

Electric showers may tick the box in the estate agents charts, but they
never produce what I would call a proper shower.

On that most agree ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Roger Moss "rwm2 [at] rwmoss.gotadsl.co.uk" wrote in
:


As an alternative, can one install a booster pump for the cold supply
and an ordinary electric shower? Or will a booster pump seize up if the
hot water side is running dry?
-Roger

Yes, I've got one, except that it's all in one unit.

The pump is a bit noisy in the earole, but leaves the rest of the hovel
alone, and drowns out the karoake.

I run mine from the cold tank which copes perfectly well on refilling; this
buffers the shower from kitchen taps, bogs, etc,w hich can bedevil the
mains fed shower.

Mine is 10.5 kW, which is only a bit (!) inadequate when the weather is
cold. (God ordained that sort of thing when she created the world).

mike

mike wrote:


Mine is 10.5 kW, which is only a bit (!) inadequate when the weather is
cold. (God ordained that sort of thing when she created the world).

If god was a woman she would have made anything but mains pressure shows
a cardinal sin.

In article , Roger
Moss "rwm2 [at] rwmoss.gotadsl.co.uk"@?.? writes
I am getting a pumped electric shower for a gravity-fed system. The
reviews I've seen for the Mira Elite 2 and Triton T80Si pumped/T90si
tend to say they are terribly noisy.

Does anyone have any experience with these?

Just back from a short hol where they had a Mira pumped shower with a
separate pump, performance was excellent and whisper quiet due to the
well muffled remote pump. It's a layout I would heartily recommend but the
shower rail fittings were flimsy and had bust in the high traffic environment.
I think it was a Mira Excel which is thermostatic, the Mira Gem 88 looks to
have a beefier rail setup. No idea which pump was fitted but knowing the
people that rent the place out I reckon they'd have gone Mira throughout so
prob their PPT3 pump? Unpumped head was about 5 feet. Shower came
with both regular and water saving Eco spray inserts.
--
fred
Plusnet - I hope you like vanilla