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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Riving Knife
Looking for a new circ saw to replace my old B&D - which is a great saw, but
the fence doesn't tuck under the base, so it won't rip less that 40mm - and is big & heavy. Looking for a 160mm ish saw with a 50mm depth of cut & I notice that many circ saws no longer have a riving knife fitted. I've removed the one on my old B&D because its a PITA in many ways, but I can always re fit it if I need to. The purpose of a riving knife AFAIUI is to stop the cut closing up & binding on the blade. So how do the saws without the RK overcome this - or don't they. I was wondering why they hadn't fitted them? -- Dave The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 |
#2
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Riving Knife
On 30 Mar, 20:14, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote: Looking for a new circ saw to replace my old B&D - which is a great saw, but the fence doesn't tuck under the base, so it won't rip less that 40mm - and is big & heavy. Looking for a 160mm ish saw with a 50mm depth of cut & I notice that many circ saws no longer have a riving knife fitted. I've removed the one on my old B&D because its a PITA in many ways, but I can always re fit it if I need to. The purpose of a riving knife AFAIUI is to stop the cut closing up & binding on the blade. So how do the saws without the RK overcome this - or don't they. I was wondering why they hadn't fitted them? -- Dave The Medway Handymanwww.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 The RK is really only needed when rip sawing natural timber, which might close onto the blade. When cross cutting natural timber, or cutting man-made board, there is almost no chance of the blade being closed upon. |
#3
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Riving Knife
On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 20:14:48 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
mused: Looking for a new circ saw to replace my old B&D - which is a great saw, but the fence doesn't tuck under the base, so it won't rip less that 40mm - and is big & heavy. Looking for a 160mm ish saw with a 50mm depth of cut & I notice that many circ saws no longer have a riving knife fitted. I've removed the one on my old B&D because its a PITA in many ways, but I can always re fit it if I need to. Thought you were looking at Makitas? They all seem to come with a riving knife AFAICS. The purpose of a riving knife AFAIUI is to stop the cut closing up & binding on the blade. So how do the saws without the RK overcome this - or don't they. I was wondering why they hadn't fitted them? Took mine off when I bought the saw nearly 10 years ago and have never touched it since. -- Regards, Stuart. |
#4
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Riving Knife
On 30 Mar, 23:56, Lurch wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 20:14:48 +0100, "The Medway Handyman" mused: Looking for a new circ saw to replace my old B&D - which is a great saw, but the fence doesn't tuck under the base, so it won't rip less that 40mm - and is big & heavy. Looking for a 160mm ish saw with a 50mm depth of cut & I notice that many circ saws no longer have a riving knife fitted. I've removed the one on my old B&D because its a PITA in many ways, but I can always re fit it if I need to. Thought you were looking at Makitas? They all seem to come with a riving knife AFAICS. The purpose of a riving knife AFAIUI is to stop the cut closing up & binding on the blade. So how do the saws without the RK overcome this - or don't they. I was wondering why they hadn't fitted them? Took mine off when I bought the saw nearly 10 years ago and have never touched it since. If the saw jams at the front, no harm done, as the wood is pulled against the baseplate, so nothing goes anywhere. If the saw jams at the back, the circ saw is thrown upwards at the user. So I kept my riving knife. NT |
#5
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Riving Knife
On 31 Mar, 08:16, wrote:
If the saw jams at the front, no harm done, as the wood is pulled against the baseplate, so nothing goes anywhere. If the saw jams at the back, the circ saw is thrown upwards at the user. So I kept my riving knife. NT they also protect against forceful upthrust caused by pushing the saw to the side, which is an easy thing to unintentionally do. NT |
#6
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Riving Knife
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#7
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Riving Knife
Lurch wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 20:14:48 +0100, "The Medway Handyman" mused: Looking for a new circ saw to replace my old B&D - which is a great saw, but the fence doesn't tuck under the base, so it won't rip less that 40mm - and is big & heavy. Thought you were looking at Makitas? They all seem to come with a riving knife AFAICS. I still am, but I can't find out if the fence tucks under the base. And the Makita doesn't seem to come with a case, which is a PITA and adds to the cost. The purpose of a riving knife AFAIUI is to stop the cut closing up & binding on the blade. So how do the saws without the RK overcome this - or don't they. I was wondering why they hadn't fitted them? Took mine off when I bought the saw nearly 10 years ago and have never touched it since.. But I wondered why they now make them without - given all the safety regs these days? -- Dave The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 |
#8
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Riving Knife
On 2007-03-31 09:29:40 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said: Lurch wrote: On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 20:14:48 +0100, "The Medway Handyman" mused: Looking for a new circ saw to replace my old B&D - which is a great saw, but the fence doesn't tuck under the base, so it won't rip less that 40mm - and is big & heavy. Thought you were looking at Makitas? They all seem to come with a riving knife AFAICS. I still am, but I can't find out if the fence tucks under the base. And the Makita doesn't seem to come with a case, which is a PITA and adds to the cost. That ought to be a minor consideration though. I know that manufacturers like to throw in blades, sets of gloves etc. Cases are an arguable thing, although I tend to agree that for something sold for trade use, there ought to be one. Even so, it shouldn't be the major decision making criterion. The purpose of a riving knife AFAIUI is to stop the cut closing up & binding on the blade. So how do the saws without the RK overcome this - or don't they. I was wondering why they hadn't fitted them? Took mine off when I bought the saw nearly 10 years ago and have never touched it since.. But I wondered why they now make them without - given all the safety regs these days? Which manufacturers? I looked at all of the major quality brands and all seem to have riving knives. I certainly wouldn't buy or use a portable circular saw without. They certainly can kick back otherwise and if the timing is wrong and you are too close, the spring return on the guard may not have completely closed off the blade..... |
#9
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Riving Knife
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#10
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Riving Knife
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Thought you were looking at Makitas? They all seem to come with a riving knife AFAICS. I still am, but I can't find out if the fence tucks under the base. And the I am surprised you can't modify your B&D to do this... my one will rip much closer that 40mm. I will do some photos of it shortly and post them, you may be able to see a way of copying its layout, Makita doesn't seem to come with a case, which is a PITA and adds to the cost. Some do: http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/...ws&product=976 In fact there are quite a few on this page with cases: http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/...ircular%20Saws (The Hitachi saws are *really* nice IME as well) The purpose of a riving knife AFAIUI is to stop the cut closing up & binding on the blade. So how do the saws without the RK overcome this - or don't they. I was wondering why they hadn't fitted them? Took mine off when I bought the saw nearly 10 years ago and have never touched it since.. But I wondered why they now make them without - given all the safety regs these days? Probably because for the majority of users it is not usually a risk factor. Most cuts made are in man made boards. I have never seen ordinary softwood close up on cutting. Its only when you get into less common species, or very deep cuts (issue only on bigger saws obviously) that the potential for this problem increases. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#11
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Riving Knife
On 31 Mar, 11:28, Stuart Noble
wrote: wrote: On 31 Mar, 08:16, wrote: If the saw jams at the front, no harm done, as the wood is pulled against the baseplate, so nothing goes anywhere. If the saw jams at the back, the circ saw is thrown upwards at the user. So I kept my riving knife. NT they also protect against forceful upthrust caused by pushing the saw to the side, which is an easy thing to unintentionally do. NT If you can't concentrate, stay away from power tools altogether lol |
#12
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Riving Knife
Andy Hall wrote:
Which manufacturers? I looked at all of the major quality brands and all seem to have riving knives. I certainly wouldn't buy or use a portable circular saw without. They certainly can kick back otherwise and if the timing is wrong and you are too close, the spring return on the guard may not have completely closed off the blade..... Tha last one I noticed it on (or not on) was a MacAlister in B&Q but I have seen a 'major brand' without a RK - might have been Skil? -- Dave The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 |
#13
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Riving Knife
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Andy Hall wrote: Which manufacturers? I looked at all of the major quality brands and all seem to have riving knives. I certainly wouldn't buy or use a portable circular saw without. They certainly can kick back otherwise and if the timing is wrong and you are too close, the spring return on the guard may not have completely closed off the blade..... Tha last one I noticed it on (or not on) was a MacAlister in B&Q but I have seen a 'major brand' without a RK - might have been Skil? It was - Skil Orca http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/...ircular%20Saws -- Dave The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 |
#14
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Riving Knife
The Medway Handyman wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote: Andy Hall wrote: Which manufacturers? I looked at all of the major quality brands and all seem to have riving knives. I certainly wouldn't buy or use a portable circular saw without. They certainly can kick back otherwise and if the timing is wrong and you are too close, the spring return on the guard may not have completely closed off the blade..... Tha last one I noticed it on (or not on) was a MacAlister in B&Q but I have seen a 'major brand' without a RK - might have been Skil? It was - Skil Orca http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/...ircular%20Saws ....and the Hitachi C7SB2 -- Dave The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 |
#15
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Riving Knife
John Rumm wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote: Thought you were looking at Makitas? They all seem to come with a riving knife AFAICS. I still am, but I can't find out if the fence tucks under the base. And the I am surprised you can't modify your B&D to do this... my one will rip much closer that 40mm. I will do some photos of it shortly and post them, you may be able to see a way of copying its layout, Makita doesn't seem to come with a case, which is a PITA and adds to the cost. Some do: http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/...ws&product=976 In fact there are quite a few on this page with cases: http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/...ircular%20Saws Thanks John, but it's not just the fence, the B&D is far too big & heavy. I'm looking for a 160mm saw with a 50mm depth of cut really. -- Dave The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 |
#16
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Riving Knife
On 2007-03-31 18:41:46 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said: John Rumm wrote: The Medway Handyman wrote: Thought you were looking at Makitas? They all seem to come with a riving knife AFAICS. I still am, but I can't find out if the fence tucks under the base. And the I am surprised you can't modify your B&D to do this... my one will rip much closer that 40mm. I will do some photos of it shortly and post them, you may be able to see a way of copying its layout, Makita doesn't seem to come with a case, which is a PITA and adds to the cost. Some do: http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/...ws&product=976 In fact there are quite a few on this page with cases: http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/...ircular%20Saws Thanks John, but it's not just the fence, the B&D is far too big & heavy. I'm looking for a 160mm saw with a 50mm depth of cut really. Festool TS55 is those sizes, comes with a riving knife and in a Systainer case. It's rather nice to use as well. |
#17
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Riving Knife
Andy Hall wrote:
Festool TS55 is those sizes, comes with a riving knife and in a Systainer case. It's rather nice to use as well. Bloody well should be at £250 + !!! I'd want an operator thrown in at that price! -- Dave The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 |
#18
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Riving Knife
On 2007-03-31 19:41:56 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said: Andy Hall wrote: Festool TS55 is those sizes, comes with a riving knife and in a Systainer case. It's rather nice to use as well. Bloody well should be at £250 + !!! Actually the Hitachi one isn't bad either. I'd want an operator thrown in at that price! Like this one? Maureen is a friendly, well-trained, highly-experienced operator based in Hull. Maureen is regularly coached and tested to make sure she €“ or he! €“ provides the sort of customer service that makes you happy. |
#19
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Riving Knife
Stuart Noble wrote:
wrote: On 31 Mar, 08:16, wrote: If the saw jams at the front, no harm done, as the wood is pulled against the baseplate, so nothing goes anywhere. If the saw jams at the back, the circ saw is thrown upwards at the user. So I kept my riving knife. NT they also protect against forceful upthrust caused by pushing the saw to the side, which is an easy thing to unintentionally do. NT If you can't concentrate, stay away from power tools altogether 50 years ago, it was almost expected that a full-time sawyer would not finish his career with a full set of fingers; or if he didn't, it was entirely his own fault. Such attitudes are not acceptable now; but even back then, the one safety precaution they *did* insist on was a riving knife. -- Ian White |
#20
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Riving Knife
I've got the Skil Orca, it's a very reasonable saw at it's price
point. As you say, it's designed without a riving knife. The manual says that when held properly the operator should be able to control kick backs, should one occur. It comes with a neat, compact case (many power tool cases are overly large for what they hold IMO), though the saw fits in a peculiar canted over position that isn't obvious. 90 quid at www.axminster.co.uk For a little more money, I think CC manufacturers are bundling guide rail systems - very useful for repetitive panel work. |
#22
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Riving Knife
Thanks, but it's a 190mm machine. I'm looking for a 160mm. Why the smaller blade? I gave my old 140mm skilsaw away recently, as it was never used now I have the 190mm one. |
#23
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Riving Knife
wrote:
Thanks, but it's a 190mm machine. I'm looking for a 160mm. Why the smaller blade? I gave my old 140mm skilsaw away recently, as it was never used now I have the 190mm one. Size & weight really. I don't need the extra depth of cut. My B&D is a huge beast, cumbersome and the case takes up a load of space in the van. BTW anyone know anything about the Wolf Sapphire WCS160S ? http://tinyurl.com/ytbbsk Seems like someone is just using the brand name - seems too cheap to be any good. -- Dave The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 |
#24
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Riving Knife
Why the smaller blade? I gave my old 140mm skilsaw away recently, as it was never used now I have the 190mm one. Size & weight really. I don't need the extra depth of cut. My B&D is a huge beast, cumbersome and the case takes up a load of space in the van. Fair enough. I did consider hanging on to mine for just that reason, but I found in practice I'd habitually use the larger one. Those little cordless ones look like they'd be cool for details, but I understand they suck the batteries very quickly. |
#25
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Riving Knife
wrote:
Why the smaller blade? I gave my old 140mm skilsaw away recently, as it was never used now I have the 190mm one. Size & weight really. I don't need the extra depth of cut. My B&D is a huge beast, cumbersome and the case takes up a load of space in the van. Fair enough. I did consider hanging on to mine for just that reason, but I found in practice I'd habitually use the larger one. Those little cordless ones look like they'd be cool for details, but I understand they suck the batteries very quickly. Indeed they do - or some do. I have an SIP 18v jobby with 2 x 1.9a/h batteries & it is rather disapointing. -- Dave The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 |
#26
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Riving Knife
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Andy Hall wrote: Festool TS55 is those sizes, comes with a riving knife and in a Systainer case. It's rather nice to use as well. Bloody well should be at £250 + !!! I'd want an operator thrown in at that price! There are some tools you should pay good money for but the circ saw isn't one of them IMO |
#27
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Riving Knife
On 1 Apr, 13:28, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote: wrote: but I found in practice I'd habitually use the larger one. Those little cordless ones look like they'd be cool for details, but I understand they suck the batteries very quickly. Indeed they do - or some do. I have an SIP 18v jobby with 2 x 1.9a/h batteries & it is rather disapointing. I just assumed all ate batteries, circular sawing is a relatively power hungry app after all. Or do people have ones that dont? NT |
#28
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Riving Knife
On 2007-04-01 14:10:00 +0100, Stuart Noble
said: The Medway Handyman wrote: Andy Hall wrote: Festool TS55 is those sizes, comes with a riving knife and in a Systainer case. It's rather nice to use as well. Bloody well should be at £250 + !!! I'd want an operator thrown in at that price! There are some tools you should pay good money for but the circ saw isn't one of them IMO I disagree. It depends on what work you want to do. I tend to see circular saws in four categories: - The really cheap junk around £20-30 that isn't worth buying. - Reasonable quality light use such as Bosch green and B&D - Trade/industrial quality - Makita, Bosch blue, De Walt, Metabo, Hitachi - High end quality. Festool, Mafell, possibly a few others. In the top two categories one can expect a solid cast rather than stamped base - yes it does make a difference - , good quality adjusters that are easy to set and clean, smooth operation. I've compared the Festool and Mafell with Makita, Metabo and Hitachi and there is certainly a difference in feel between them. Certainly if one wanted to regularly use a circular saw as part of a panel cutting set up with guide rails, Festool and Mafell both have very good products that inegrate with them well. Had I been doing this, I certainly would have gone for one of these products. As it is I have a table saw with slider and outrigger so I can handle large panels anyway and so I have a Hitachi circular saw to cover applications needing a portable saw. This is a similar discussion to jig saws. People with experience only of entry level ones assume that all are limited, and that is not really the case. |
#29
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Riving Knife
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#30
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Riving Knife
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Size & weight really. I don't need the extra depth of cut. My B&D is a huge beast, cumbersome and the case takes up a load of space in the van. Many of the small smaller sizes these days are cordless ones. Perhaps you ought to investigate some of those? -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#31
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Riving Knife
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-04-01 14:10:00 +0100, Stuart Noble said: The Medway Handyman wrote: Andy Hall wrote: Festool TS55 is those sizes, comes with a riving knife and in a Systainer case. It's rather nice to use as well. Bloody well should be at £250 + !!! I'd want an operator thrown in at that price! There are some tools you should pay good money for but the circ saw isn't one of them IMO I disagree. It depends on what work you want to do. I tend to see circular saws in four categories: - The really cheap junk around £20-30 that isn't worth buying. - Reasonable quality light use such as Bosch green and B&D - Trade/industrial quality - Makita, Bosch blue, De Walt, Metabo, Hitachi - High end quality. Festool, Mafell, possibly a few others. In the top two categories one can expect a solid cast rather than stamped base - yes it does make a difference - , good quality adjusters that are easy to set and clean, smooth operation. I've compared the Festool and Mafell with Makita, Metabo and Hitachi and there is certainly a difference in feel between them. Certainly if one wanted to regularly use a circular saw as part of a panel cutting set up with guide rails, Festool and Mafell both have very good products that inegrate with them well. Had I been doing this, I certainly would have gone for one of these products. As it is I have a table saw with slider and outrigger so I can handle large panels anyway and so I have a Hitachi circular saw to cover applications needing a portable saw. This is a similar discussion to jig saws. People with experience only of entry level ones assume that all are limited, and that is not really the case. Totally different to a jigsaw where sustained power at low speed is required. A cheap jigsaw gives an inferior result every time so they aren't worth buying. However, any old circular saw will whizz through sheet materials and, with the right blade, deliver as good a cut as anything else. With the £30 Power Devil I like to leave half the pencil line (grade 2B) on the edge of the cut, but I guess I could achieve greater accuracy by paying a bit more :-) |
#32
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Riving Knife
On 2007-04-01 17:53:00 +0100, Stuart Noble
said: Totally different to a jigsaw where sustained power at low speed is required. A cheap jigsaw gives an inferior result every time so they aren't worth buying. However, any old circular saw will whizz through sheet materials and, with the right blade, deliver as good a cut as anything else. With the £30 Power Devil I like to leave half the pencil line (grade 2B) on the edge of the cut, but I guess I could achieve greater accuracy by paying a bit more :-) If you were using a marking knife possibly..... |
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