The walls of our 1930's house appear to be thinner upstairs than
downstairs, most obvious on the landing where there's a shelf / second
window sill:

http://tinyurl.com/3a8tuo

Our neighbour told me that, when she had cavity wall insulation
recently, the installers were only able to do downstairs. She wasn't
sure whether this was because upstairs was solid or a thinner cavity.

Has anyone come across this type of construction before? Is it more
likely that it's solid or just a thinner cavity? I'd have thought that,
if a cavity existed, it could be filled with the kind of blown
insulation that's used today.

Thanks.

Mick6 wrote:
The walls of our 1930's house appear to be thinner upstairs than
downstairs, most obvious on the landing where there's a shelf / second
window sill:

http://tinyurl.com/3a8tuo

Our neighbour told me that, when she had cavity wall insulation
recently, the installers were only able to do downstairs. She wasn't
sure whether this was because upstairs was solid or a thinner cavity.

Has anyone come across this type of construction before? Is it more
likely that it's solid or just a thinner cavity? I'd have thought
that, if a cavity existed, it could be filled with the kind of blown
insulation that's used today.

Thanks.

As a CWI installer I came across this from time to time, and while not very
common, it's not a rarity neither - I think builders went through a short
spell of doing this as you say, around the 30's, and yes, the shelf on the
stairs is a feature of all of them.

With regards to having them insulated, they will only insulate the lower
part because while there may be a small cavity upstairs, an inch at most,
this isn't possible to insulate by injection, and even if it were, it would
be useless as mineral wool only works over 40mm in thickness, and you could
never get the correct density given that the inch cavity would be completely
solid in parts where debris has filled it

In article , Mick6
wrote:

The walls of our 1930's house appear to be thinner upstairs than
downstairs, most obvious on the landing where there's a shelf / second
window sill:

http://tinyurl.com/3a8tuo

My house is a former farm foreman's cottage dating from 1919 and it is
if very similar construction. The ground floor walls comprise a
conventional nine inch solid wall with an inner single brick thick
inner skin, while the upper floor is just a nine inch wall, externally
rendered and pebble dashed.

Adrian

Thanks for the reply, Phil.

Do you happen to know roughly what the going rate for a 3-bed semi
would be up north -- and if you only have the ground floor done, is it
half the price or doesn't it work like that?

I'm assuming we'll have to pay as most of the grants on www.est.co.uk
are linked to various state benefits.

Mick6 wrote:
Thanks for the reply, Phil.

Do you happen to know roughly what the going rate for a 3-bed semi
would be up north -- and if you only have the ground floor done, is it
half the price or doesn't it work like that?

Approx 5 quid a metre, measure from your internal floor to your 'shelf'.
write it down.
Go outside and measure the front, side and back, times it by the height and
knock off any doors, windows etc - you don't have to be exact, and I can
tell you that half a semi is around 40m2, so £200 ish


I'm assuming we'll have to pay as most of the grants on www.est.co.uk
are linked to various state benefits.

Any disabilities in the house? - war pensioners? - family tax credits?

All these are elligible for a 100% grant for CWI

In article ,
"Phil L" wrote:


Approx 5 quid a metre, measure from your internal floor to your 'shelf'.
write it down.
Go outside and measure the front, side and back, times it by the height and
knock off any doors, windows etc - you don't have to be exact, and I can
tell you that half a semi is around 40m2, so £200 ish

Thanks.

"Mick6" wrote in message
...
The walls of our 1930's house appear to be thinner upstairs than
downstairs, most obvious on the landing where there's a shelf / second
window sill:

http://tinyurl.com/3a8tuo

Our neighbour told me that, when she had cavity wall insulation
recently, the installers were only able to do downstairs. She wasn't
sure whether this was because upstairs was solid or a thinner cavity.

Has anyone come across this type of construction before? Is it more
likely that it's solid or just a thinner cavity? I'd have thought that,
if a cavity existed, it could be filled with the kind of blown
insulation that's used today.


Yes very common (in spite of what some "tradesmen" may say). My last house
(1928) was exactly thus. They are usually rendered top half as well, to give
weatherproofing to the solid construction upstairs. There will be no cavity
in the top half. By the time we had built extensions there just wasn't
enough cavity to make cavity insulating remotely cost effective.

The ledge round the stairs is very useful when decorating: (a) it will
support a platform (old doors or whatever) to work from and (b) it means you
can decorate /wallpaper top half then bottom half separately. Almost ideal,
I would say!


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 18:31:07 GMT Mick6 wrote :
Our neighbour told me that, when she had cavity wall insulation
recently, the installers were only able to do downstairs. She wasn't
sure whether this was because upstairs was solid or a thinner cavity.

Has anyone come across this type of construction before? Is it more
likely that it's solid or just a thinner cavity? I'd have thought that,
if a cavity existed, it could be filled with the kind of blown
insulation that's used today.

I've never heard of this, but until c.1974 the regs allowed 75mm blocks to
be used for the inner skin of a cavity at first floor level. The cavity
width shouldn't be reduced though.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

"Phil L" wrote in message
.. .
Mick6 wrote:
The walls of our 1930's house appear to be thinner upstairs than
downstairs, most obvious on the landing where there's a shelf / second
window sill:

http://tinyurl.com/3a8tuo

Our neighbour told me that, when she had cavity wall insulation
recently, the installers were only able to do downstairs. She wasn't
sure whether this was because upstairs was solid or a thinner cavity.

Has anyone come across this type of construction before? Is it more
likely that it's solid or just a thinner cavity? I'd have thought
that, if a cavity existed, it could be filled with the kind of blown
insulation that's used today.

Thanks.

As a CWI installer I came across this from time to time, and while not
very common, it's not a rarity neither - I think builders went through a
short spell of doing this as you say, around the 30's, and yes, the shelf
on the stairs is a feature of all of them.

With regards to having them insulated, they will only insulate the lower
part because while there may be a small cavity upstairs, an inch at most,
this isn't possible to insulate by injection, and even if it were, it
would be useless as mineral wool only works over 40mm in thickness, and
you could never get the correct density given that the inch cavity would
be completely solid in parts where debris has filled it

Great, as you once did the job then can you please tell me why the CWI
installers insulated my gable end in the loft. I assumed this was "dead"
space and would not have needed insulating. I am not complaining but just
curious. They did a top quality job to my requirements (ie work from inside
and not smash any tiles in the kichen)

Cheers

Adam

ARWadsworth wrote:


Great, as you once did the job then can you please tell me why the CWI
installers insulated my gable end in the loft. I assumed this was
"dead" space and would not have needed insulating. I am not
complaining but just curious. They did a top quality job to my
requirements (ie work from inside and not smash any tiles in the
kichen)
Cheers

Adam

All walls must be insulated to the top of the cavity, so the peaks on gables
are always done, this is to prevent any water that may ingress from tracking
across the top of the 'stopped' insulation - if the cavity is 100% filled,
the water will simply make it's way down to the DPC naturally.

We only did peaks from inside the loft if there ws an obstruction outside in
the way of the ladders, or if the top was covered in timber cladding
etc...sometimes we did them from inside if the ladders wouldn't reach, but
we used 36ft ladders so this was a rarity.

All newbuild properties are done from inside prior to plastering

In article ,
"Bob Mannix" wrote:


Yes very common (in spite of what some "tradesmen" may say). My last house
(1928) was exactly thus. They are usually rendered top half as well, to give
weatherproofing to the solid construction upstairs. There will be no cavity
in the top half. By the time we had built extensions there just wasn't
enough cavity to make cavity insulating remotely cost effective.

Well, we just had a quote -- £205 for the side wall and the front.
There's a new insulated extension at the back.

Surveyor said it was hardly worth doing as most of the heat would escape
though the upstairs walls anyway. He phoned the office and they said he
should quote 2-bed bungalow instead of a 3-bed semi to take account of
the reduced wall area. (They seem to work on fixed rates.)

It strikes me as quite expensive but on the other hand, gas bills are
expensive and the neighbour claimed she could tell the difference after
hers was done.

Anyone any thoughts on viabilty? Will it take decades to pay back that
amount?

There's no DIY method by any chance...? :-)

"Phil L" wrote in message
...
ARWadsworth wrote:


Great, as you once did the job then can you please tell me why the CWI
installers insulated my gable end in the loft. I assumed this was
"dead" space and would not have needed insulating. I am not
complaining but just curious. They did a top quality job to my
requirements (ie work from inside and not smash any tiles in the
kichen)
Cheers

Adam

All walls must be insulated to the top of the cavity, so the peaks on
gables are always done, this is to prevent any water that may ingress from
tracking across the top of the 'stopped' insulation - if the cavity is
100% filled, the water will simply make it's way down to the DPC
naturally.

We only did peaks from inside the loft if there ws an obstruction outside
in the way of the ladders, or if the top was covered in timber cladding
etc...sometimes we did them from inside if the ladders wouldn't reach, but
we used 36ft ladders so this was a rarity.

All newbuild properties are done from inside prior to plastering

Thanks for that Phil. Just what I needed to know. I actually had all the
house done from the inside for cosmetic reasons as the whole house will be
reskimmed the next year and I did not want to view the spots on the outside
wall where the installers had drilled and then made good the holes.

Adam