I have to paint an interior concrete floor (approx. 3 metres by 4 and a
bit). I was going to apply stabilising solution before painting. However I
keep seeing references to the use of acid etching solutions. What are
these? Should I be applying one before using anything else?

Any and all advice gratefully received...

TIA

--
Steve

Orson Cart wrote:
I have to paint an interior concrete floor (approx. 3 metres by 4 and a
bit). I was going to apply stabilising solution before painting. However I
keep seeing references to the use of acid etching solutions. What are
these? Should I be applying one before using anything else?

Any and all advice gratefully received...

TIA

--
Steve

Do not apply stabilisation solution to the floor before painting it.
Stabilisation solutions are meant to arrest 'dusting' of the floor. It
will also slightly act as a waterproofing which will prevent any
penetration of 'floor paint' or a proper coating to the surface. The
Floor paint or an epoxy coating will lift.

Acid etching is mostly only used on new concrete floors to get rid of
the 'laitance' which is the weak layer of cement powder brought to the
surface of the concrete during trowelling or working the concrete. It
consists of using strong acid, Hydrochloric, Nitric etc etc to
neutralise the alkaline cement, break it up and the resultant liquids
have to be rinsed away completely or the coating will disbond.

Older concrete is probably best treated by a powerful jet wash and
allowed to dry thoroughly and I mean thoroughly probaby 2 weeks or more
dependant on temperature and humidity.

If the floor is intended to take a fair bollocking consider using Epoxy
Resin rather than cheap floor Paint from the sheds.

Some of the best info will be found on the Watco website. I do not work
for Watco but have worked in the industry for many years.

On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 08:53:32 +0100, Bookworm wrote:

[snip]

Do not apply stabilisation solution to the floor before painting it.
Stabilisation solutions are meant to arrest 'dusting' of the floor. It
will also slightly act as a waterproofing which will prevent any
penetration of 'floor paint' or a proper coating to the surface. The
Floor paint or an epoxy coating will lift.

Acid etching is mostly only used on new concrete floors to get rid of
the 'laitance' which is the weak layer of cement powder brought to the
surface of the concrete during trowelling or working the concrete. It
consists of using strong acid, Hydrochloric, Nitric etc etc to
neutralise the alkaline cement, break it up and the resultant liquids
have to be rinsed away completely or the coating will disbond.

Older concrete is probably best treated by a powerful jet wash and
allowed to dry thoroughly and I mean thoroughly probaby 2 weeks or more
dependant on temperature and humidity.

If the floor is intended to take a fair bollocking consider using Epoxy
Resin rather than cheap floor Paint from the sheds.

Some of the best info will be found on the Watco website. I do not work
for Watco but have worked in the industry for many years.


Thanks for your reply, and the warning about stabilisation solutions. And
I'm exploring the Watco website as we speak...

The floor is new, laid 2-3 months ago, and my problem is all the fine
dust/powder. So should I acid etch it before painting? Or can I get away
with brushing it thoroughly and then painting? Or could I just stabilise
it and forget the paint? As I say, I'm mainly concerned about the dust -
I'm not bothered about the floor's appearance.

So I guess I've just redefined the question - how do I best avoid/suppress
the dust on a newish (2-3 months) concrete floor?

Sorry for all the questions - I'm venturing into unexplored territory...

Cheers,

--
Steve

Orson Cart wrote:
On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 08:53:32 +0100, Bookworm wrote:

[snip]

Do not apply stabilisation solution to the floor before painting it.
Stabilisation solutions are meant to arrest 'dusting' of the floor. It
will also slightly act as a waterproofing which will prevent any
penetration of 'floor paint' or a proper coating to the surface. The
Floor paint or an epoxy coating will lift.

Acid etching is mostly only used on new concrete floors to get rid of
the 'laitance' which is the weak layer of cement powder brought to the
surface of the concrete during trowelling or working the concrete. It
consists of using strong acid, Hydrochloric, Nitric etc etc to
neutralise the alkaline cement, break it up and the resultant liquids
have to be rinsed away completely or the coating will disbond.

Older concrete is probably best treated by a powerful jet wash and
allowed to dry thoroughly and I mean thoroughly probaby 2 weeks or more
dependant on temperature and humidity.

If the floor is intended to take a fair bollocking consider using Epoxy
Resin rather than cheap floor Paint from the sheds.

Some of the best info will be found on the Watco website. I do not work
for Watco but have worked in the industry for many years.


Thanks for your reply, and the warning about stabilisation solutions. And
I'm exploring the Watco website as we speak...

The floor is new, laid 2-3 months ago, and my problem is all the fine
dust/powder. So should I acid etch it before painting? Or can I get away
with brushing it thoroughly and then painting? Or could I just stabilise
it and forget the paint? As I say, I'm mainly concerned about the dust -
I'm not bothered about the floor's appearance.

So I guess I've just redefined the question - how do I best avoid/suppress
the dust on a newish (2-3 months) concrete floor?

Sorry for all the questions - I'm venturing into unexplored territory...

Cheers,

--
Steve

Acid etch before painting. If you put coating on top of 'laitance' it
will just peel.

Some of the Water Based Epoxy Floor paints are excellent as long as you
do not want to run cars etc over them.

You can use dustproofers/concrete surface sealants/hardeners but if you
do you will be stuck with the grey of the concrete because you will
never be able to paint the floor.

In article . com,
"Bookworm" wrote:

Do not apply stabilisation solution to the floor before painting it.
Stabilisation solutions are meant to arrest 'dusting' of the floor. It
will also slightly act as a waterproofing which will prevent any
penetration of 'floor paint' or a proper coating to the surface. The
Floor paint or an epoxy coating will lift.

EH?! I had a new garage floor 14 years ago. For once in my life I
thought I'd do a Proper Job on painting it, so I bought proper concrete
paint from the builder's merchant (not a "shed"), and I also bought the
recommended stabiliser to use underneath it.

After some *years*, the paint lifted in various parts, where I drive the
car into the garage. It's now looking tatty enough for me to think
about doing it again.

It would never occur to me that I'd be doing the wrong thing by applying
a stabiliser first. The fact that it's lifting (or should I just say
'worn away') now is fair wear and tear if you ask me. By the way I've
parked the car in in the garage every night, for 14 years.

John

On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 12:51:59 +0100, John wrote:

In article . com,
"Bookworm" wrote:

Do not apply stabilisation solution to the floor before painting it.
Stabilisation solutions are meant to arrest 'dusting' of the floor. It
will also slightly act as a waterproofing which will prevent any
penetration of 'floor paint' or a proper coating to the surface. The
Floor paint or an epoxy coating will lift.

EH?! I had a new garage floor 14 years ago. For once in my life I
thought I'd do a Proper Job on painting it, so I bought proper concrete
paint from the builder's merchant (not a "shed"), and I also bought the
recommended stabiliser to use underneath it.

After some *years*, the paint lifted in various parts, where I drive the
car into the garage. It's now looking tatty enough for me to think
about doing it again.

It would never occur to me that I'd be doing the wrong thing by applying
a stabiliser first. The fact that it's lifting (or should I just say
'worn away') now is fair wear and tear if you ask me. By the way I've
parked the car in in the garage every night, for 14 years.

John

My floor is in an outhouse that I've had built - somewhere to which I can
retreat to do man stuff ;-) - and the only wear and tear will be from my
feet. I'll run the risk of the paint lifting and do what you did...
probably... and that's a definite maybe...

--
Steve

John wrote:


EH?! I had a new garage floor 14 years ago. For once in my life I
thought I'd do a Proper Job on painting it, so I bought proper concrete
paint from the builder's merchant (not a "shed"), and I also bought the
recommended stabiliser to use underneath it.


John

The description 'Stabilisation Solution' has many meanings. Sometimes
it it is in reality a priming solution, sometimes it is a dustproofer,
sometimes it is a hardener. They all call it a 'Stabilising Solution'

If the manufactururer says ' Use X .. Stabilisation Solution' then use
it. He usually knows best.

'If all else fails read the instructions'

On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 12:51:59 +0100, John wrote:


After some *years*, the paint lifted in various parts, where I drive the
car into the garage. It's now looking tatty enough for me to think
about doing it again.

It would never occur to me that I'd be doing the wrong thing by applying
a stabiliser first. The fact that it's lifting (or should I just say
'worn away') now is fair wear and tear if you ask me. By the way I've
parked the car in in the garage every night, for 14 years.

You may not have done anything wrong but I am told that rubber car
tyres reacts with ordinary floor paint and pulls it off. (I painted my
garage floor with Crown floor paint a couple of years ago and you
could see where my car had been after a very short period of light use
- I have a can of Crown Epimac floor paint to put down when I feel in
the mood for clearing the floor; apparently that should be OK.)

Peter Johnson wrote:


You may not have done anything wrong but I am told that rubber car
tyres reacts with ordinary floor paint and pulls it off. (I painted my
garage floor with Crown floor paint a couple of years ago and you
could see where my car had been after a very short period of light use
- I have a can of Crown Epimac floor paint to put down when I feel in
the mood for clearing the floor; apparently that should be OK.)

If it pulls off its not adhered properly. It should wear off with a lot
of use. Now you are either going to remove all the previous badly
adhered paint or paint on top of badly adhered paint. I wish you the
best of luck.

Most of these paint manufacturers make product down to a price, (max
profit), and cut corners and, in some cases take the ****.

There are many specialist flooring epoxies etc on the market and they
will give you far better results than with 'floor paints' which are
what they say, little more than 'paint'.

A lot of them are cheaper than 'Floor Paint' anyway.

In message . com,
Bookworm writes
Peter Johnson wrote:


You may not have done anything wrong but I am told that rubber car
tyres reacts with ordinary floor paint and pulls it off. (I painted my
garage floor with Crown floor paint a couple of years ago and you
could see where my car had been after a very short period of light use
- I have a can of Crown Epimac floor paint to put down when I feel in
the mood for clearing the floor; apparently that should be OK.)

If it pulls off its not adhered properly. It should wear off with a lot
of use.

Not necessarily, as Peter says there is a particular problem with a
reaction with cars tyres causing delamination.

It's mentioned specifically in the Watco datasheet for their
Polyurethane Floor Paint (where they do recommend an expoxy product for
this useage)

http://www.watco.co.uk/pdfs/CFP-ds.pdf

--
Chris French