We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "John Anderton"
saying something like:

At 100% energy efficiency, enough to get you half a mile? So, you're
saying you only need to be towed *half* the way home...

I'm sorry to say I've been really, really bored today and I've actually
spent time thinking about this. :-)

Although I don't doubt that towing a standard electric car half a mile
will enable it, at best, to then go about half a mile under it's own
power, it *is* actually possible, in theory, to impart enough energy to
an electric vehicle in that distance to enable it to travel many miles.

To achieve this you either have to tow the car using a vehicle with a
far more powerful engine or tow the car using a vehicle with a
comparable engine but slowly. You also need a dynamo in the electric
car that creates many times the resistance suffered by the car when it
is running normally (caused by wind resistance, friction etc.) and
tyres that enable the dynamo to turn without the car losing traction on
the road.

Exactly. I'd think the response of most truckers to being asked for a
tow for Drivel's flattened MINI would be quite robust. As for the tyres;
well, if all the energy from the towing vehicle was being transmitted
through them to the wheel motors in a charging fashion, they wouldn't
last long at all.

Highly unlikely scenario. In short, no way is an ordinary tow going to
do it, except in DrivelWorld.
--

Dave

In article ,
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
Really? Creates energy does it?

Yep.

Jesus H. Kreist.

Hear that hum? That's Einstein spinning in his grave, that is.

http://www.engineersedge.com/thermod.../first_law.htm

Nothing new - dribble has long believed in boilers which exceed 100%
efficiency which of course means he is totally without clue.

--
*I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message ews.net,
Doctor Drivel writes

Although I don't doubt that towing a standard electric car half a mile
will enable it, at best, to then go about half a mile under it's own
power, it *is* actually possible, in theory, to impart enough energy to
an electric vehicle in that distance to enable it to travel many miles.

Yep. They also use large capacitors to store energy.

Another one for the scrap book

--
geoff

The message
from "Dave Plowman (News)" contains these words:

Nothing new - dribble has long believed in boilers which exceed 100%
efficiency which of course means he is totally without clue.

I suppose if the incoming gas was /very/ hot and wasn't counted on the
input side of the equation...

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "John Anderton"
saying something like:

At 100% energy efficiency, enough to get you half a mile? So, you're
saying you only need to be towed *half* the way home...

I'm sorry to say I've been really, really bored today and I've actually
spent time thinking about this. :-)

Although I don't doubt that towing a standard electric car half a mile
will enable it, at best, to then go about half a mile under it's own
power, it *is* actually possible, in theory, to impart enough energy to
an electric vehicle in that distance to enable it to travel many miles.

To achieve this you either have to tow the car using a vehicle with a
far more powerful engine or tow the car using a vehicle with a
comparable engine but slowly. You also need a dynamo in the electric
car that creates many times the resistance suffered by the car when it
is running normally (caused by wind resistance, friction etc.) and
tyres that enable the dynamo to turn without the car losing traction on
the road.

Exactly. I'd think the response of most truckers to being asked for a
tow for Drivel's flattened MINI would be quite robust. As for the tyres;
well, if all the energy from the towing vehicle was being transmitted
through them to the wheel motors in a charging fashion, they wouldn't
last long at all.

Highly unlikely scenario. In short, no way is an ordinary tow going to
do it, except in DrivelWorld.

You made all that up.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
Really? Creates energy does it?

Yep.

Jesus H. Kreist.

Hear that hum? That's Einstein spinning in his grave, that is.

http://www.engineersedge.com/thermod.../first_law.htm

Nothing

Will you please eff off as you are an idiot.

"Guy King" wrote in message
...

I suppose if the incoming gas was /very/ hot and wasn't counted on the
input side of the equation...

You don't know much about these things do you?

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 21:04:01 +0100, Guy King
wrote:

The message
from "Dave Plowman (News)" contains these words:

Nothing new - dribble has long believed in boilers which exceed 100%
efficiency which of course means he is totally without clue.

I suppose if the incoming gas was /very/ hot and wasn't counted on the
input side of the equation...

Like counting the 'free' miles gained by starting with a fully
charged battery you mean ;-)

Yes you could potentially impart energy in a hybrid using 'regen' by
towing it by a petrol car [1] .. but that sorta defeats the point eh
(except as mentioned, only in 'DrivelWorld' g).

All the best ..

T i m

[1] Drivel would probably get another electric car to tow charge his
electric car .. oh, we just created perpetual motion again!

pre snip Drivels drivel

In message ews.net,
Doctor Drivel writes

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
Really? Creates energy does it?

Yep.

Jesus H. Kreist.

Hear that hum? That's Einstein spinning in his grave, that is.

http://www.engineersedge.com/thermod.../first_law.htm

Nothing

Will you please eff off as you are an idiot.


Ha ha



--
geoff

Doctor Drivel wrote:


Yep. They also use large capacitors to store energy.

Is that in the form of AC or DC ?

Dave

"Dave" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:


Yep. They also use large capacitors to store energy.

Is that in the form of AC or DC ?

Dave

Pat, what would you think?

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 21:04:01 +0100, Guy King
wrote:

The message
from "Dave Plowman (News)" contains these words:

Nothing new - dribble has long believed in boilers which exceed 100%
efficiency which of course means he is totally without clue.

I suppose if the incoming gas was /very/ hot and wasn't counted on the
input side of the equation...

Like counting the 'free' miles gained by starting with a fully
charged battery you mean ;-)

Yes you could potentially impart energy in a hybrid using 'regen' by
towing it by a petrol car [1] .. but that sorta defeats the point eh

Do you mean it can be done? The uk.d-i-y Lunatic Association (affiliated)
says it cannot.

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message ews.net,
Doctor Drivel writes

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
Really? Creates energy does it?

Yep.

Jesus H. Kreist.

Hear that hum? That's Einstein spinning in his grave, that is.

http://www.engineersedge.com/thermod.../first_law.htm

Nothing

Will you please eff off as you are an idiot.


Ha ha

Maxie, you have been on the pop gain haven't you? Naught, naughty!

On 2006-09-11 23:25:32 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Dave" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:


Yep. They also use large capacitors to store energy.

Is that in the form of AC or DC ?

Dave

Pat, what would you think?

He just wants to know if you are AC/DC...

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 23:26:52 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"T i m" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 21:04:01 +0100, Guy King
wrote:

The message
from "Dave Plowman (News)" contains these words:

Nothing new - dribble has long believed in boilers which exceed 100%
efficiency which of course means he is totally without clue.

I suppose if the incoming gas was /very/ hot and wasn't counted on the
input side of the equation...

Like counting the 'free' miles gained by starting with a fully
charged battery you mean ;-)

Yes you could potentially impart energy in a hybrid using 'regen' by
towing it by a petrol car [1] .. but that sorta defeats the point eh

Do you mean it can be done? The uk.d-i-y Lunatic Association (affiliated)
says it cannot.

I'm not sure they were, but the mere physics and logic of doing so
would be ridiculous (not that is a problem for your good self of
course) ;-)

Towing an inertia (flywheel) driven vehicle up_to_speed (like the
'friction' cars in yer toy box) might be more realistic as the energy
could be input in a progressive way but the energy output would never
equal the energy input ... (believe it or not) ... ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2006-09-11 23:25:32 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Dave" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:


Yep. They also use large capacitors to store energy.

Is that in the form of AC or DC ?

Dave

Pat, what would you think?

He just wants to know if you are AC/DC...

So, he is fishing eh. Trying it on with the bright ones. Well he does go by
male and femal names.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 23:26:52 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"T i m" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 21:04:01 +0100, Guy King
wrote:

The message
from "Dave Plowman (News)" contains these words:

Nothing new - dribble has long believed in boilers which exceed 100%
efficiency which of course means he is totally without clue.

I suppose if the incoming gas was /very/ hot and wasn't counted on the
input side of the equation...

Like counting the 'free' miles gained by starting with a fully
charged battery you mean ;-)

Yes you could potentially impart energy in a hybrid using 'regen' by
towing it by a petrol car [1] .. but that sorta defeats the point eh

Do you mean it can be done? The uk.d-i-y Lunatic Association (affiliated)
says it cannot.

I'm not sure they were,

Oh, they were.

but the mere physics and logic of doing so
would be ridiculous (not that is a problem for your good self of
course) ;-)

It is not for me at all.

In article ,
T i m wrote:
Yes you could potentially impart energy in a hybrid using 'regen' by
towing it by a petrol car [1] .. but that sorta defeats the point eh

Do you mean it can be done? The uk.d-i-y Lunatic Association
(affiliated) says it cannot.

I'm not sure they were, but the mere physics and logic of doing so
would be ridiculous (not that is a problem for your good self of
course) ;-)

Logic and dribble will never be bed mates.

Towing an inertia (flywheel) driven vehicle up_to_speed (like the
'friction' cars in yer toy box) might be more realistic as the energy
could be input in a progressive way but the energy output would never
equal the energy input ... (believe it or not) ... ;-)

Really, as used on buses for many a year. Braking for a bus stop (say)
runs up a flywheel, and the stored energy of that helps start it off
again. Much more efficient than generating and storing electricity for
that sort of application.

--
*No husband has ever been shot while doing the dishes *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 19:38:45 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
Yes you could potentially impart energy in a hybrid using 'regen' by
towing it by a petrol car [1] .. but that sorta defeats the point eh

Do you mean it can be done? The uk.d-i-y Lunatic Association
(affiliated) says it cannot.

I'm not sure they were, but the mere physics and logic of doing so
would be ridiculous (not that is a problem for your good self of
course) ;-)

Logic and dribble will never be bed mates.

Towing an inertia (flywheel) driven vehicle up_to_speed (like the
'friction' cars in yer toy box) might be more realistic as the energy
could be input in a progressive way but the energy output would never
equal the energy input ... (believe it or not) ... ;-)

Really, as used on buses for many a year.

Yup, exactly ;-)

Braking for a bus stop (say)
runs up a flywheel, and the stored energy of that helps start it off
again.

Indeed, so initially you have to either spin the flywheel up using
some sort of motor / engine, or tow it with yer 'get yer electric car
home by towing charging it' vehicle ;-)

Much more efficient than generating and storing electricity for
that sort of application.

Indeed .. only frictional rather than chemical losses to contend with.

You just have to hope more folk want to travel to the bottom of the
hill than the top ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

On 2006-09-11 23:25:32 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Dave" wrote in message
...

Doctor Drivel wrote:


Yep. They also use large capacitors to store energy.


Is that in the form of AC or DC ?

Dave


Pat, what would you think?


He just wants to know if you are AC/DC...


So, he is fishing eh. Trying it on with the bright ones. Well he does
go by male and femal names.


DIMM shows his ignorance again!!!!

Since when was a good old Irish name like Pat, been applied to a female?

Dave

Dave wrote:
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

On 2006-09-11 23:25:32 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Dave" wrote in message
...

Doctor Drivel wrote:


Yep. They also use large capacitors to store energy.


Is that in the form of AC or DC ?

Dave


Pat, what would you think?


He just wants to know if you are AC/DC...


So, he is fishing eh. Trying it on with the bright ones. Well he does
go by male and femal names.


DIMM shows his ignorance again!!!!

Since when was a good old Irish name like Pat, been applied to a female?


Since the diminution of Patricia.


Dave

"Dave" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

On 2006-09-11 23:25:32 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Dave" wrote in message
...

Doctor Drivel wrote:


Yep. They also use large capacitors to store energy.


Is that in the form of AC or DC ?

Dave


Pat, what would you think?


He just wants to know if you are AC/DC...


So, he is fishing eh. Trying it on with the bright ones. Well he does go
by male and femal names.

DIMM shows his ignorance again!!!!

Maxie, step in here. This ac/dc person is on about your Oriental
enchantress.

Since when was a good old Irish name like Pat, been applied to a female?

Back pedalling now eh.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
T i m wrote:
Yes you could potentially impart energy in a hybrid using 'regen' by
towing it by a petrol car [1] .. but that sorta defeats the point eh

Do you mean it can be done? The uk.d-i-y Lunatic Association
(affiliated) says it cannot.

I'm not sure they were, but the mere physics and logic of doing so
would be ridiculous (not that is a problem for your good self of
course) ;-)

Logic

You really must eff off as you are an idiot.

In article ,
Dave wrote:
So, he is fishing eh. Trying it on with the bright ones. Well he does
go by male and femal names.


DIMM shows his ignorance again!!!!

Since when was a good old Irish name like Pat, been applied to a female?

Short for Patricia.

As regards unisex names, what about Doctor?

Perhaps dribble is a woman? She did once say she was a 'man' of mystery.
Perhaps the mystery was where 'his' balls had gone...

--
*Failure is not an option. It's bundled with your software.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The message
from Dave contains these words:

Since when was a good old Irish name like Pat, been applied to a female?

My mum's been known as Pat all her life - though christened Patricia.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Dave wrote:
So, he is fishing eh. Trying it on with the bright ones. Well he does
go by male and femal names.


DIMM shows his ignorance again!!!!

Since when was a good old Irish name like Pat, been applied to a female?

Short

You really must eff off as you are an idiot.

On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 21:55:38 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
T i m wrote:
Yes you could potentially impart energy in a hybrid using 'regen' by
towing it by a petrol car [1] .. but that sorta defeats the point eh

Do you mean it can be done? The uk.d-i-y Lunatic Association
(affiliated) says it cannot.

I'm not sure they were, but the mere physics and logic of doing so
would be ridiculous (not that is a problem for your good self of
course) ;-)

Logic

You really must eff off as you are an idiot.

Bless ;-)

I hope you get well soon ..

Love ..

T i m

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Dave wrote:

Doctor Drivel wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

On 2006-09-11 23:25:32 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Dave" wrote in message
...

Doctor Drivel wrote:


Yep. They also use large capacitors to store energy.



Is that in the form of AC or DC ?

Dave



Pat, what would you think?



He just wants to know if you are AC/DC...



So, he is fishing eh. Trying it on with the bright ones. Well he
does go by male and femal names.



DIMM shows his ignorance again!!!!

Since when was a good old Irish name like Pat, been applied to a female?


Since the diminution of Patricia.

I was rather hoping to string this out for DIM, but you have guessed my
wife's name and made a mess of my plans :-)

Dave

On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 22:18:14 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Dave wrote:
So, he is fishing eh. Trying it on with the bright ones. Well he does
go by male and femal names.


DIMM shows his ignorance again!!!!

Since when was a good old Irish name like Pat, been applied to a female?

Short for Patricia.

As regards unisex names, what about Doctor?

Perhaps dribble is a woman? She did once say she was a 'man' of mystery.
Perhaps the mystery was where 'his' balls had gone...

Well, in this instance I can assure you our 'Dribble' was in fact
*created*[1] as a man (but only just) but many years being sexually
'dominated' (both paid for and abuse on his ward) have rendered him
'asexual'? ;-(

Mind you, the drugs / shock_therapy help him stay cheerful so that's
something I suppose .. (bless).

All the best ..

T i m (Married to a real 'woman' and driving a real car with no
'magic' x10 sticker after the mpg indicator (but still doing 50 mpg in
this world)).

[1] All be it not in the conventional way ..

"Dave" wrote in message
...
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Dave wrote:

Doctor Drivel wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

On 2006-09-11 23:25:32 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
said:


"Dave" wrote in message
...

Doctor Drivel wrote:


Yep. They also use large capacitors to store energy.



Is that in the form of AC or DC ?

Dave



Pat, what would you think?



He just wants to know if you are AC/DC...



So, he is fishing eh. Trying it on with the bright ones. Well he does
go by male and femal names.



DIMM shows his ignorance again!!!!

Since when was a good old Irish name like Pat, been applied to a female?


Since the diminution of Patricia.

I was rather hoping to string this out for DIM, but you have guessed my
wife's name and made a mess of my plans :-)

Are you having an affair with Maxies bird? Maxie, this Lunatic Association
are something else aren't they.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 22:18:14 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Dave wrote:
So, he is fishing eh. Trying it on with the bright ones. Well he does
go by male and femal names.


DIMM shows his ignorance again!!!!

Since when was a good old Irish name like Pat, been applied to a female?

Short for Patricia.

As regards unisex names, what about Doctor?

Perhaps dribble is a woman? She did once say she was a 'man' of mystery.
Perhaps the mystery was where 'his' balls had gone...

Well, in this instance I can assure you our 'Dribble' was in fact
*created*[1] as a man (but only just) but many years being sexually
'dominated' (both paid for and abuse on his ward) have rendered him
'asexual'? ;-(

Mind you, the drugs / shock_therapy help him stay cheerful so that's
something I suppose .. (bless).

All the best ..

T i m (Married to a real 'woman' and driving a real car with no
'magic' x10 sticker after the mpg indicator (but still doing 50 mpg in
this world)).

[1] All be it not in the conventional way ..

Are you an associate member of the uk.d-i-y Lunatic Association (affiliated)

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 21:55:38 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
T i m wrote:
Yes you could potentially impart energy in a hybrid using 'regen' by
towing it by a petrol car [1] .. but that sorta defeats the point
eh

Do you mean it can be done? The uk.d-i-y Lunatic Association
(affiliated) says it cannot.

I'm not sure they were, but the mere physics and logic of doing so
would be ridiculous (not that is a problem for your good self of
course) ;-)

Logic

You really must eff off as you are an idiot.

Bless ;-)

If you want. As long the idiot effs off.

On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 00:50:41 +0100, "Ms Doctor Drivel"
wrote:



All the best ..

T i m (Married to a real 'woman' and driving a real car with no
'magic' x10 sticker after the mpg indicator (but still doing 50 mpg in
this world)).

[1] All be it not in the conventional way ..

Are you an associate member of the uk.d-i-y Lunatic Association (affiliated)

Well, I would be if only they could get my membership application
right (useless bunch of lunatics).

Maybe as the founder member you could pull some strings for me please?

If you can, I'll take up your offer of a 'ride in the Prius', as long
as you leave the sweets in the glove box (why was that full of latex
gloves ..?).

All the best ..

T i m

In article ,
T i m wrote:
Are you an associate member of the uk.d-i-y Lunatic Association
(affiliated)

Well, I would be if only they could get my membership application
right (useless bunch of lunatics).

You get it automatically by disagreeing with dribble on anything. Which
makes just about the entire readership of uk.d-i-y members...

--
*We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Dave" wrote in message
...

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Dave wrote:

Doctor Drivel wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

On 2006-09-11 23:25:32 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
said:


"Dave" wrote in message
...

Doctor Drivel wrote:


Yep. They also use large capacitors to store energy.




Is that in the form of AC or DC ?

Dave




Pat, what would you think?




He just wants to know if you are AC/DC...




So, he is fishing eh. Trying it on with the bright ones. Well he
does go by male and femal names.




DIMM shows his ignorance again!!!!

Since when was a good old Irish name like Pat, been applied to a
female?


Since the diminution of Patricia.


I was rather hoping to string this out for DIM, but you have guessed
my wife's name and made a mess of my plans :-)


Are you having an affair with Maxies bird? Maxie, this Lunatic
Association are something else aren't they.

Pity your grammar is not up to news group postings.

Dave

On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 19:09:39 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
Are you an associate member of the uk.d-i-y Lunatic Association
(affiliated)

Well, I would be if only they could get my membership application
right (useless bunch of lunatics).

You get it automatically by disagreeing with dribble on anything. Which
makes just about the entire readership of uk.d-i-y members...

;-)

"Dave" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Dave" wrote in message
...

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Dave wrote:

Doctor Drivel wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

On 2006-09-11 23:25:32 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
said:


"Dave" wrote in message
...

Doctor Drivel wrote:


Yep. They also use large capacitors to store energy.




Is that in the form of AC or DC ?

Dave




Pat, what would you think?




He just wants to know if you are AC/DC...




So, he is fishing eh. Trying it on with the bright ones. Well he
does go by male and femal names.




DIMM shows his ignorance again!!!!

Since when was a good old Irish name like Pat, been applied to a
female?


Since the diminution of Patricia.


I was rather hoping to string this out for DIM, but you have guessed my
wife's name and made a mess of my plans :-)


Are you having an affair with Maxies bird? Maxie, this Lunatic
Association are something else aren't they.

Pity your grammar is not up to news group postings.

Been sniffing after Maxie's bird eh!

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
T i m wrote:
Are you an associate member of the uk.d-i-y Lunatic Association
(affiliated)

Well, I would be if only they could get my membership application
right (useless bunch of lunatics).

You get it automatically by disagreeing with dribble on anything. Which
makes just about the entire readership of uk.d-i-y members...

There you Timmy me boy the founder and chairman aids you in membership.
They char-banc trips you know.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 19:09:39 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
Are you an associate member of the uk.d-i-y Lunatic Association
(affiliated)

Well, I would be if only they could get my membership application
right (useless bunch of lunatics).

You get it automatically by disagreeing with dribble on anything. Which
makes just about the entire readership of uk.d-i-y members...

;-)

So, expect your card in the post. It says on the back: you can be as many
people as you like, and the one card does them all.

On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 00:37:18 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
T i m wrote:
Are you an associate member of the uk.d-i-y Lunatic Association
(affiliated)

Well, I would be if only they could get my membership application
right (useless bunch of lunatics).

You get it automatically by disagreeing with dribble on anything. Which
makes just about the entire readership of uk.d-i-y members...

There you Timmy me boy the founder and chairman aids you in membership.

Neat (thanks) but now do I *have* to go_with_you in the Prius? (it
hurt my bottom last time) ;-(

They char-banc trips you know.

Yoda, is that you ... ?

Timmy.