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Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
I've noticed that more and more Li-ion tools are being made available,
but given the careful charging and handling requirements of the batteries are these going to be dangerous for site or DIY use? There are many examples of Li-ion batteries exploding and injuring users. And it is recommended that these batteries are not left unattended when charging. As these batteries are more likely to be knocked and sustain unnoticed damage, I wondered if they can be trusted? dg |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
dg wrote:
I've noticed that more and more Li-ion tools are being made available, but given the careful charging and handling requirements of the batteries are these going to be dangerous for site or DIY use? There are many examples of Li-ion batteries exploding and injuring users. And it is recommended that these batteries are not left unattended when charging. As these batteries are more likely to be knocked and sustain unnoticed damage, I wondered if they can be trusted? There is nothing inherently more dangerous about Li-ion or Li-poly than NiCd and NiMH. Many of the problems that have hit the news have been due to manufacturing faults. Because the cells in these batteries are different from the standard cylindrical configuration, manufacturers have had to re-tool in order to manufacture them. This is the first major re-tool in a very long time, and it's just taken a bit of time to iron out some difficulties. The advantages of Li-ion are huge - much higher power density, no heavy metal content, great charge-discharge characteristics, the list goes on. For a glimpse of what can be done with Li-ion, take a look at this: http://www.pmlflightlink.com/archive/news_mini.html -- Grunff |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
Grunff wrote: http://www.pmlflightlink.com/archive/news_mini.html "It is truly an outstanding example of British innovation at it's best!" Pity we never invented the metric system isn't it. Pity someone never told their advertisers. I would never consider looking seriously at an ad that gave the specs in French. Nothing against the French of course. But if the morons overlooked the fact that we drive miles in this country and still consume fuel by the gallon despite what the arses in government want us to do, I might be looking at a car designed to travel on the wrong side of the street for my tastes. |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
dg wrote:
I've noticed that more and more Li-ion tools are being made available, but given the careful charging and handling requirements of the batteries are these going to be dangerous for site or DIY use? No. The problem is specific to laptop batteries, where extra thin separators are used to squeeze more capacity into a small space. NT |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
But if the morons overlooked the fact that we drive miles in this
country and still consume fuel by the gallon It does give the fuel consumption as 80 mpg. And where do you buy fuel by the gallon these days. I measure my fuel consumption in miles/litre. |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
"Grunff" wrote in message ... dg wrote: I've noticed that more and more Li-ion tools are being made available, but given the careful charging and handling requirements of the batteries are these going to be dangerous for site or DIY use? There are many examples of Li-ion batteries exploding and injuring users. And it is recommended that these batteries are not left unattended when charging. As these batteries are more likely to be knocked and sustain unnoticed damage, I wondered if they can be trusted? There is nothing inherently more dangerous about Li-ion or Li-poly than NiCd and NiMH. Many of the problems that have hit the news have been due to manufacturing faults. Because the cells in these batteries are different from the standard cylindrical configuration, manufacturers have had to re-tool in order to manufacture them. This is the first major re-tool in a very long time, and it's just taken a bit of time to iron out some difficulties. The advantages of Li-ion are huge - much higher power density, no heavy metal content, great charge-discharge characteristics, the list goes on. For a glimpse of what can be done with Li-ion, take a look at this: http://www.pmlflightlink.com/archive/news_mini.html -- Grunff Very impressive, would love to see it go :) My only worry is there are NO mechanical brake. Fully reliant on software/hardware for the regen braking!!!! |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
On 2006-09-03 16:35:48 +0100, "Tim Morley" tim.morley*REMOVE
said: "Grunff" wrote in message ... There is nothing inherently more dangerous about Li-ion or Li-poly than NiCd and NiMH. Many of the problems that have hit the news have been due to manufacturing faults. Because the cells in these batteries are different from the standard cylindrical configuration, manufacturers have had to re-tool in order to manufacture them. This is the first major re-tool in a very long time, and it's just taken a bit of time to iron out some difficulties. The advantages of Li-ion are huge - much higher power density, no heavy metal content, great charge-discharge characteristics, the list goes on. For a glimpse of what can be done with Li-ion, take a look at this: http://www.pmlflightlink.com/archive/news_mini.html -- Grunff Very impressive, would love to see it go :) My only worry is there are NO mechanical brake. Fully reliant on software/hardware for the regen braking!!!! Don't worry about that..... Grunff wrote the software. He's very good :-) |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
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Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
Guy King wrote: The message .com from contains these words: No. The problem is specific to laptop batteries, where extra thin separators are used to squeeze more capacity into a small space. Not just laptops. Model aeroplanes have had a few go pop, too. -- Skipweasel Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. And the ones for cameras, phones and small torches too (Cr123). I understood it was the technology not the actual design which is sensitive. I've even read of problems with non rechargeable Li-ions dg |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
In message . com,
Weatherlawyer writes Grunff wrote: http://www.pmlflightlink.com/archive/news_mini.html "It is truly an outstanding example of British innovation at it's best!" Pity we never invented the metric system isn't it. Pity someone never told their advertisers. I would never consider looking seriously at an ad that gave the specs in French. Nothing against the French of course. But if the morons overlooked the fact that we drive miles in this country and still consume fuel by the gallon despite what the arses in government want us to do, I might be looking at a car designed to travel on the wrong side of the street for my tastes. WTF are you whittering on about this time ? -- geoff |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 13:52:42 +0100, Grunff wrote:
http://www.pmlflightlink.com/archive/news_mini.html "No mechanical brakes" it sez. I note the blocks under the tyres in the top picture :-) |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 18:39:14 GMT, raden wrote:
In message . com, Weatherlawyer writes Grunff wrote: http://www.pmlflightlink.com/archive/news_mini.html "It is truly an outstanding example of British innovation at it's best!" Pity we never invented the metric system isn't it. Pity someone never told their advertisers. I would never consider looking seriously at an ad that gave the specs in French. Nothing against the French of course. But if the morons overlooked the fact that we drive miles in this country and still consume fuel by the gallon despite what the arses in government want us to do, I might be looking at a car designed to travel on the wrong side of the street for my tastes. WTF are you whittering on about this time ? Its a Sunday, he starts early. |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
On 3 Sep 2006 11:38:06 -0700, "dg" wrote:
Guy King wrote: The message .com from contains these words: No. The problem is specific to laptop batteries, where extra thin separators are used to squeeze more capacity into a small space. Not just laptops. Model aeroplanes have had a few go pop, too. -- Skipweasel Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. And the ones for cameras, phones and small torches too (Cr123). I understood it was the technology not the actual design which is sensitive. And I've had difficulty getting such posted from the US .. (laptop battery). And for the car .. 80 mpg indeed .. ;-) Oh and .. "Emissions - Zero for 4 hours" .. so charged by hydroelectric then? Steps back and waits for Dr Drivel .. ;-) All the best .. T i m |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
in 565679 20060903 193914 raden wrote:
In message . com, Weatherlawyer writes Grunff wrote: http://www.pmlflightlink.com/archive/news_mini.html "It is truly an outstanding example of British innovation at it's best!" Pity we never invented the metric system isn't it. Pity someone never told their advertisers. I would never consider looking seriously at an ad that gave the specs in French. Nothing against the French of course. But if the morons overlooked the fact that we drive miles in this country and still consume fuel by the gallon despite what the arses in government want us to do, I might be looking at a car designed to travel on the wrong side of the street for my tastes. WTF are you whittering on about this time ? It's still 1906 for a lot of people in this country. Don't disturb them. |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
T i m wrote:
And for the car .. 80 mpg indeed .. ;-) Oh and .. "Emissions - Zero for 4 hours" .. so charged by hydroelectric then? Who cares - have you seen how fast it is?? -- Grunff |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
"Grunff" wrote in message ... T i m wrote: And for the car .. 80 mpg indeed .. ;-) Oh and .. "Emissions - Zero for 4 hours" .. so charged by hydroelectric then? Who cares - have you seen how fast it is?? If you flatten the battery and have no fuel, all it needs is a tow for 1/2 mile or so and the wheels turning will charge the battery, they you get home. |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
Doctor Drivel wrote: If you flatten the battery and have no fuel, all it needs is a tow for 1/2 mile or so and the wheels turning will charge the battery, they you get home. As long as you only live a mile or so away, of course Cheers, John (sensing another classic Dr Drivel exchange in the offing) |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
"Grunff" wrote in message ... T i m wrote: And for the car .. 80 mpg indeed .. ;-) Oh and .. "Emissions - Zero for 4 hours" .. so charged by hydroelectric then? Who cares - have you seen how fast it is?? 160hp per wheel and a motor on each wheel. That is over 600hp. The car is overpowered. They may be wanting to claw back more brake regen by using a motor on each wheel. The management system should bring in and out front and rear drive wheels automatically. A simple overview: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/08/the_hybrid_mini.php |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
On Mon, 4 Sep 2006 14:24:21 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote: "Grunff" wrote in message . .. T i m wrote: And for the car .. 80 mpg indeed .. ;-) Oh and .. "Emissions - Zero for 4 hours" .. so charged by hydroelectric then? Who cares - have you seen how fast it is?? 160hp per wheel and a motor on each wheel. That is over 600hp. So it would need to be towed by an F1 car then (most trucks only being ~450hp). And they are environmentally friendly aren't they? ;-) All the best .. T i m |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Doctor Drivel" saying something like: If you flatten the battery and have no fuel, all it needs is a tow for 1/2 mile or so and the wheels turning will charge the battery, they you get home. Really? Creates energy does it? FFS. I suppose it fills up the petrol tank too. -- Dave |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
In article ,
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote: If you flatten the battery and have no fuel, all it needs is a tow for 1/2 mile or so and the wheels turning will charge the battery, they you get home. Really? Creates energy does it? FFS. I suppose it fills up the petrol tank too. One of the correspondents who contributes to Autocar runs a Lexus GS300, and borrowed the same car but the hybrid version. Got 28 mpg with it during his usual commute across London. Exactly the same as his own car. It's about time they sorted those false MPG claims - and also the false low CO2 output company car tax is based on... -- *Indian Driver - Smoke signals only* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
In message , Grimly
Curmudgeon writes We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "Doctor Drivel" saying something like: If you flatten the battery and have no fuel, all it needs is a tow for 1/2 mile or so and the wheels turning will charge the battery, they you get home. Really? Creates energy does it? FFS. I suppose it fills up the petrol tank too. ******** - missed that the first time around saved for posterity ... -- geoff |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message ... We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "Doctor Drivel" saying something like: If you flatten the battery and have no fuel, all it needs is a tow for 1/2 mile or so and the wheels turning will charge the battery, they you get home. Really? Creates energy does it? Yep. I suppose it fills up the petrol tank too. It does? |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Grimly Curmudgeon wrote: If you flatten the battery and have no fuel, all it needs is a tow for 1/2 mile or so and the wheels turning will charge the battery, they you get home. Really? Creates energy does it? FFS. I suppose it fills up the petrol tank too. One of the correspondents who contributes to Autocar runs a Lexus GS300, Oh no the naive intervene again. Will you please eff off as you are an idiot. |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
"raden" wrote in message ... In message , Grimly Curmudgeon writes We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "Doctor Drivel" saying something like: If you flatten the battery and have no fuel, all it needs is a tow for 1/2 mile or so and the wheels turning will charge the battery, they you get home. Really? Creates energy does it? FFS. I suppose it fills up the petrol tank too. ******** - missed that the first time around saved for posterity ... Maxie, what are you saving for your posterior? |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote: One of the correspondents who contributes to Autocar runs a Lexus GS300, Oh no the naive intervene again. The naive are those who blindly believe adverts. Remind you of anyone? Will you please eff off as you are an idiot. Think I'll start taking record of these comments and pass them on to your ISP. BTW, I'm still waiting for the police to arrive. -- *If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
In message ews.net,
Doctor Drivel writes "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Grimly Curmudgeon wrote: If you flatten the battery and have no fuel, all it needs is a tow for 1/2 mile or so and the wheels turning will charge the battery, they you get home. Really? Creates energy does it? FFS. I suppose it fills up the petrol tank too. One of the correspondents who contributes to Autocar runs a Lexus GS300, Oh no the naive intervene again. Will you please eff off as you are an idiot. "If you flatten the battery and have no fuel, all it needs is a tow for 1/2 mile or so and the wheels turning will charge the battery, they you get home" ha ha - you dIMM plonker -- geoff |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
In message ews.net,
Doctor Drivel writes "raden" wrote in message ... In message , Grimly Curmudgeon writes We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "Doctor Drivel" saying something like: If you flatten the battery and have no fuel, all it needs is a tow for 1/2 mile or so and the wheels turning will charge the battery, they you get home. Really? Creates energy does it? FFS. I suppose it fills up the petrol tank too. ******** - missed that the first time around saved for posterity ... Maxie, what are you saving for your posterior? "If you flatten the battery and have no fuel, all it needs is a tow for 1/2 mile or so and the wheels turning will charge the battery, they you get home." you dIMM plonker -- geoff |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 09:41:40 UTC, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote: "Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message ... We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "Doctor Drivel" saying something like: If you flatten the battery and have no fuel, all it needs is a tow for 1/2 mile or so and the wheels turning will charge the battery, they you get home. Really? Creates energy does it? Yep. At 100% energy efficiency, enough to get you half a mile? So, you're saying you only need to be towed *half* the way home... -- The information contained in this post is copyright the poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by Avenue Supplies, http://avenuesupplies.co.uk |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
Bob Eager wrote: On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 09:41:40 UTC, "Doctor Drivel" wrote: "Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message ... We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "Doctor Drivel" saying something like: If you flatten the battery and have no fuel, all it needs is a tow for 1/2 mile or so and the wheels turning will charge the battery, they you get home. Really? Creates energy does it? Yep. At 100% energy efficiency, enough to get you half a mile? So, you're saying you only need to be towed *half* the way home... I'm sorry to say I've been really, really bored today and I've actually spent time thinking about this. :-) Although I don't doubt that towing a standard electric car half a mile will enable it, at best, to then go about half a mile under it's own power, it *is* actually possible, in theory, to impart enough energy to an electric vehicle in that distance to enable it to travel many miles. To achieve this you either have to tow the car using a vehicle with a far more powerful engine or tow the car using a vehicle with a comparable engine but slowly. You also need a dynamo in the electric car that creates many times the resistance suffered by the car when it is running normally (caused by wind resistance, friction etc.) and tyres that enable the dynamo to turn without the car losing traction on the road. Cheers, John |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 15:13:27 UTC, "John Anderton"
wrote: At 100% energy efficiency, enough to get you half a mile? So, you're saying you only need to be towed *half* the way home... I'm sorry to say I've been really, really bored today and I've actually spent time thinking about this. :-) Although I don't doubt that towing a standard electric car half a mile will enable it, at best, to then go about half a mile under it's own power, it *is* actually possible, in theory, to impart enough energy to an electric vehicle in that distance to enable it to travel many miles. I'm sure that's true, but pretty unlikely in that case. I think the driver of the towing vehicle might require a contribution for fuel... (yes, I did actually think of that before posting; rather akin to those 'pull back a little and let go' toy cars) -- The information contained in this post is copyright the poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by Avenue Supplies, http://avenuesupplies.co.uk |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article ews.net, Doctor Drivel wrote: One of the correspondents who contributes to Autocar runs a Lexus GS300, Oh no the naive intervene again. The naive are those who blindly believe adverts. Remind you of anyone? Will you please eff off as you are an idiot. Think Don't think. Please no, just eff off as you are an idiot |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
"raden" wrote in message ... In message ews.net, Doctor Drivel writes "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Grimly Curmudgeon wrote: If you flatten the battery and have no fuel, all it needs is a tow for 1/2 mile or so and the wheels turning will charge the battery, they you get home. Really? Creates energy does it? FFS. I suppose it fills up the petrol tank too. One of the correspondents who contributes to Autocar runs a Lexus GS300, Oh no the naive intervene again. Will you please eff off as you are an idiot. "If you flatten the battery and have no fuel, all it needs is a tow for 1/2 mile or so and the wheels turning will charge the battery, then you get home" ha ha - you dIMM plonker Maxie, Dim Lin, the Oriental; enchantress tress, is a plonker? |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
"raden" wrote in message ... In message ews.net, Doctor Drivel writes "raden" wrote in message ... In message , Grimly Curmudgeon writes We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "Doctor Drivel" saying something like: If you flatten the battery and have no fuel, all it needs is a tow for 1/2 mile or so and the wheels turning will charge the battery, they you get home. Really? Creates energy does it? FFS. I suppose it fills up the petrol tank too. ******** - missed that the first time around saved for posterity ... Maxie, what are you saving for your posterior? "If you flatten the battery and have no fuel, all it needs is a tow for 1/2 mile or so and the wheels turning will charge the battery, they you get home." you dIMM plonker Maxie, you must not keep repeating this about Dim Lin, the Oriental enchantress. |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
"Bob Eager" wrote in message ... On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 09:41:40 UTC, "Doctor Drivel" wrote: "Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message ... We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "Doctor Drivel" saying something like: If you flatten the battery and have no fuel, all it needs is a tow for 1/2 mile or so and the wheels turning will charge the battery, they you get home. Really? Creates energy does it? Yep. At 100% energy efficiency, enough to get you half a mile? So, you're saying you only need to be towed *half* the way home... If you say so. |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
"John Anderton" wrote in message oups.com... Bob Eager wrote: On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 09:41:40 UTC, "Doctor Drivel" wrote: "Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message ... We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "Doctor Drivel" saying something like: If you flatten the battery and have no fuel, all it needs is a tow for 1/2 mile or so and the wheels turning will charge the battery, they you get home. Really? Creates energy does it? Yep. At 100% energy efficiency, enough to get you half a mile? So, you're saying you only need to be towed *half* the way home... I'm sorry to say I've been really, really bored today and I've actually spent time thinking about this. :-) Although I don't doubt that towing a standard electric car half a mile will enable it, at best, to then go about half a mile under it's own power, it *is* actually possible, in theory, to impart enough energy to an electric vehicle in that distance to enable it to travel many miles. Yep. They also use large capacitors to store energy. To achieve this you either have to tow the car using a vehicle with a far more powerful engine or tow the car using a vehicle with a comparable engine but slowly. You also need a dynamo in the electric car that creates many times the resistance suffered by the car when it is running normally (caused by wind resistance, friction etc.) and tyres that enable the dynamo to turn without the car losing traction on the road. Cheers, John |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
"Bob Eager" wrote in message ... On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 15:13:27 UTC, "John Anderton" wrote: At 100% energy efficiency, enough to get you half a mile? So, you're saying you only need to be towed *half* the way home... I'm sorry to say I've been really, really bored today and I've actually spent time thinking about this. :-) Although I don't doubt that towing a standard electric car half a mile will enable it, at best, to then go about half a mile under it's own power, it *is* actually possible, in theory, to impart enough energy to an electric vehicle in that distance to enable it to travel many miles. I'm sure that's true, but pretty unlikely in that case. You made that up. |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
"dg" writes:
As these batteries are more likely to be knocked and sustain unnoticed damage, I wondered if they can be trusted? I think there's definitely something there yes. They are more difficult to make than what went before, nothing like as robust, poor at high rate discharge (where lead acid and NiCd excel) and prone to manufacturers pushing limits to make unrealistic capacities. Jon |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
That is yes I think they are a little untrustworthy.
Jon I wrote: "dg" writes: As these batteries are more likely to be knocked and sustain unnoticed damage, I wondered if they can be trusted? I think there's definitely something there yes. They are more difficult to make than what went before, nothing like as robust, poor at high rate discharge (where lead acid and NiCd excel) and prone to manufacturers pushing limits to make unrealistic capacities. Jon |
Are the new crop of Li-ion battery tools inherently dangerous?
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Doctor Drivel" saying something like: If you flatten the battery and have no fuel, all it needs is a tow for 1/2 mile or so and the wheels turning will charge the battery, they you get home. Really? Creates energy does it? Yep. Jesus H. Kreist. Hear that hum? That's Einstein spinning in his grave, that is. http://www.engineersedge.com/thermod.../first_law.htm -- Dave |
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