We recently rented our house out for a year and the tenants did not get
our permission to have a water meter installed.

Three Valley are refusing to give us unmetered water now.

On their website it clearly states:
What if I am renting my premises?
You must obtain the permission of your landlord before applying for a meter installation.

so I though I had a fairly strong case.

Has anybody got any ideas or lines of enquiry I could persue to try and
get unmetered water back.

Reason for wanting unmetered water:
Three Valleys currently charge about £130 per year for unmetered water
to a property like ours.
At the moment metered water is costing us approx £20 per month.

Thanks in advance

Charlie

On 8 Aug 2006 05:03:54 -0700, "Charlie"
wrote:

We recently rented our house out for a year and the tenants did not get
our permission to have a water meter installed.

Three Valley are refusing to give us unmetered water now.

On their website it clearly states:
What if I am renting my premises?
You must obtain the permission of your landlord before applying for a meter installation.

so I though I had a fairly strong case.

Has anybody got any ideas or lines of enquiry I could persue to try and
get unmetered water back.

Ask the water company for a copy of the permission granted "by the
landlord" before the meter was installed. If such was not given, then
they have installed the meter unlawfully and you, as the landlord, can
charge them a wayleave for as long as it's there.

--
Frank Erskine

"Charlie" wrote in message
oups.com...
We recently rented our house out for a year and the tenants did not get
our permission to have a water meter installed.

Three Valley are refusing to give us unmetered water now.

On their website it clearly states:
What if I am renting my premises?
You must obtain the permission of your landlord before applying for a
meter installation.

so I though I had a fairly strong case.

Has anybody got any ideas or lines of enquiry I could persue to try and
get unmetered water back.

Reason for wanting unmetered water:
Three Valleys currently charge about £130 per year for unmetered water
to a property like ours.
At the moment metered water is costing us approx £20 per month.

Thanks in advance

Charlie



You may have a claim against your tenants - try uk.legal but the advice is
not a consistently good as it is on here

Maybe I'll try Frank's approach first before claiming against my
tenants. It sounds a bit messy.

Charlie

hzatph wrote:

"Charlie" wrote in message
oups.com...
We recently rented our house out for a year and the tenants did not get
our permission to have a water meter installed.

Three Valley are refusing to give us unmetered water now.

On their website it clearly states:
What if I am renting my premises?
You must obtain the permission of your landlord before applying for a
meter installation.

so I though I had a fairly strong case.

Has anybody got any ideas or lines of enquiry I could persue to try and
get unmetered water back.

Reason for wanting unmetered water:
Three Valleys currently charge about £130 per year for unmetered water
to a property like ours.
At the moment metered water is costing us approx £20 per month.

Thanks in advance

Charlie



You may have a claim against your tenants - try uk.legal but the advice is
not a consistently good as it is on here

"Charlie" wrote in message
oups.com...
Maybe I'll try Frank's approach first before claiming against my
tenants. It sounds a bit messy.

Charlie

hzatph wrote:

"Charlie" wrote in message
oups.com...
We recently rented our house out for a year and the tenants did not get
our permission to have a water meter installed.

Three Valley are refusing to give us unmetered water now.

On their website it clearly states:
What if I am renting my premises?
You must obtain the permission of your landlord before applying for a
meter installation.

so I though I had a fairly strong case.

Has anybody got any ideas or lines of enquiry I could persue to try and
get unmetered water back.

Reason for wanting unmetered water:
Three Valleys currently charge about £130 per year for unmetered water
to a property like ours.
At the moment metered water is costing us approx £20 per month.

Thanks in advance

Charlie



You may have a claim against your tenants - try uk.legal but the advice is
not a consistently good as it is on here

Try uk.legal.moderated less prats and trolls

PhilC

Charlie wrote:
We recently rented our house out for a year and the tenants did not
get
our permission to have a water meter installed.

Three Valley are refusing to give us unmetered water now.

On their website it clearly states:
What if I am renting my premises?
You must obtain the permission of your landlord before applying for
a meter installation.

so I though I had a fairly strong case.

Has anybody got any ideas or lines of enquiry I could persue to try
and
get unmetered water back.

Reason for wanting unmetered water:
Three Valleys currently charge about £130 per year for unmetered water
to a property like ours.
At the moment metered water is costing us approx £20 per month.

Thanks in advance

Charlie

I'm just wondering why they got a meter in? when the monthly payment would
have been at 13GBP if as you say it was 130GBP before?

Wish I was paying 20GBP instead of 25.65GBP

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

Charlie wrote:
We recently rented our house out for a year and the tenants did not get
our permission to have a water meter installed.

Three Valley are refusing to give us unmetered water now.

On their website it clearly states:
What if I am renting my premises?
You must obtain the permission of your landlord before applying for a meter installation.

so I though I had a fairly strong case.

Has anybody got any ideas or lines of enquiry I could persue to try and
get unmetered water back.

Reason for wanting unmetered water:
Three Valleys currently charge about £130 per year for unmetered water
to a property like ours.
At the moment metered water is costing us approx £20 per month.

Thanks in advance

Charlie

Reduce your bill by using less water. You could end up being charged
less than when you were unmetered.

It was a corporate let so I guess they didn't care because they weren't
paying.

I also thinkg 3 Valleys are making all new customers take a meter,
although I'm not 100% on this.

Charlie



The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:

Charlie wrote:
We recently rented our house out for a year and the tenants did not
get
our permission to have a water meter installed.

Three Valley are refusing to give us unmetered water now.

On their website it clearly states:
What if I am renting my premises?
You must obtain the permission of your landlord before applying for
a meter installation.

so I though I had a fairly strong case.

Has anybody got any ideas or lines of enquiry I could persue to try
and
get unmetered water back.

Reason for wanting unmetered water:
Three Valleys currently charge about £130 per year for unmetered water
to a property like ours.
At the moment metered water is costing us approx £20 per month.

Thanks in advance

Charlie

I'm just wondering why they got a meter in? when the monthly payment would
have been at 13GBP if as you say it was 130GBP before?

Wish I was paying 20GBP instead of 25.65GBP

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

Rob Horton wrote:

Reduce your bill by using less water. You could end up being charged
less than when you were unmetered.

I thought that it been more or less proved that having a water meter
doesn't reduce water consumption. If you need to use water you use it.
I know that my kids frequently don't flush the toilet but thay are lazy
toe rags, they don't do it to save water. I then use twice as much
water cleaning the **** stain out of the wc.
That dirty ******* Ken Livingstone doesn't flush his toilet after
taking a ****. God his house must stink.

Kevin

Charlie wrote:
It was a corporate let so I guess they didn't care because they
weren't paying.

I also thinkg 3 Valleys are making all new customers take a meter,
although I'm not 100% on this.

Charlie




You should read the site information.

Under all circumstances, you have the right to revert back to non-metered
charges provided that you do so by giving written notice within 18 months
of the meter installation.






--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

I did see this but to be fair I wasn't sure if it applied since I
wasn't the one who got the meter put in.

E.g. say you buy a house from someone who has recently had a meter put
in. Can you then revert back to non-metered charges because it's
within 18 months?

I just figured this clause would only apply to a single customer.

Charlie


The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:

You should read the site information.

Under all circumstances, you have the right to revert back to non-metered
charges provided that you do so by giving written notice within 18 months
of the meter installation.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

Charlie wrote:
I did see this but to be fair I wasn't sure if it applied since I
wasn't the one who got the meter put in.

E.g. say you buy a house from someone who has recently had a meter put
in. Can you then revert back to non-metered charges because it's
within 18 months?

I just figured this clause would only apply to a single customer.

Charlie


The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:

You should read the site information.

Under all circumstances, you have the right to revert back to
non-metered charges provided that you do so by giving written notice
within 18 months of the meter installation.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

Go to the local CAB,they'll have this scenario going through their books
daily and will advise what to do.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

We recently rented our house out for a year and the tenants did
not get our permission to have a water meter installed.

Three Valley are refusing to give us unmetered water now.

I was under the impression (although it may well be erroneous) that if the
householder changes, they can insist on a water meter anyway. i.e. as you
are the new "tenant", they can install one even if there wasn't one already.
I am probably misremembering, though.

Christian.

On 2006-08-08, Charlie wrote:
We recently rented our house out for a year and the tenants did not get
our permission to have a water meter installed.

Three Valley are refusing to give us unmetered water now.

On their website it clearly states:
What if I am renting my premises?
You must obtain the permission of your landlord before applying for a meter installation.

Tenants do seem to have some rights in this area:

http://www.defra.gov.uk/environment/...ing/rights.htm

Not sure how that page squares with the Three Valleys page, though.

--
John Phillips

Charlie wrote:
It was a corporate let so I guess they didn't care because they weren't
paying.

Still a bit odd then - why go to the trouble of changing anyway then?
(Maybe they were subjected to hard sell by the water co?)

David
PS PLEASE don't top post in this ng - the locals don't appreciate it!




The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:

Charlie wrote:
We recently rented our house out for a year and the tenants did not
get
our permission to have a water meter installed.

Three Valley are refusing to give us unmetered water now.

On their website it clearly states:
What if I am renting my premises?
You must obtain the permission of your landlord before applying for
a meter installation.
so I though I had a fairly strong case.

Has anybody got any ideas or lines of enquiry I could persue to try
and
get unmetered water back.

Reason for wanting unmetered water:
Three Valleys currently charge about £130 per year for unmetered water
to a property like ours.
At the moment metered water is costing us approx £20 per month.

Thanks in advance

Charlie
I'm just wondering why they got a meter in? when the monthly payment would
have been at 13GBP if as you say it was 130GBP before?

Wish I was paying 20GBP instead of 25.65GBP

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

John Phillips wrote:
On 2006-08-08, Charlie wrote:
We recently rented our house out for a year and the tenants did not
get our permission to have a water meter installed.

Three Valley are refusing to give us unmetered water now.

On their website it clearly states:
What if I am renting my premises?
You must obtain the permission of your landlord before applying
for a meter installation.

Tenants do seem to have some rights in this area:


http://www.defra.gov.uk/environment/...ring/rights.ht
m

Not sure how that page squares with the Three Valleys page, though.

So there you have it Charlie they did have the right to have the meter
installed, even if you pointed out no meter to be installed.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

Charlie wrote:
Maybe I'll try Frank's approach first before claiming against my
tenants. It sounds a bit messy.

Also - consider - did your tenancy agreement have a clause expressly
forbidding the tenants from changing to a metered supply? If so, then
forget it... Even if you do have such a clause, you shold investigate
whether it would be considered an "Unfair Term in Consumer Contracts"
(see http://tinyurl.com/7a46b [or
http://www.oft.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/DAAEFE58-1AAB-422A-AFED-BDE6C654A4EE/0/oft356.pdf)
and therefore unenforceable. For example, a landlord is not allowed
to stipulate that a tenant may not change the supplier of his
electricity or gas... to my mind, moving to metered water sounds a
similar sort of issue.

David


Charlie

hzatph wrote:

"Charlie" wrote in message
oups.com...
We recently rented our house out for a year and the tenants did not get
our permission to have a water meter installed.

Three Valley are refusing to give us unmetered water now.

On their website it clearly states:
What if I am renting my premises?
You must obtain the permission of your landlord before applying for a
meter installation.
so I though I had a fairly strong case.

Has anybody got any ideas or lines of enquiry I could persue to try and
get unmetered water back.

Reason for wanting unmetered water:
Three Valleys currently charge about £130 per year for unmetered water
to a property like ours.
At the moment metered water is costing us approx £20 per month.

Thanks in advance

Charlie



You may have a claim against your tenants - try uk.legal but the advice is
not a consistently good as it is on here

http://www.defra.gov.uk/environment/...ing/rights.htm

The way I read that, the water company can definitely insist on metering and
there is no case against the previous tenants either.

Christian.

OK, I rang Three Valleys Water again and they say that the meter was
"Compulsory Fit" when the tenants moved in.

And that under the Water Industry Act 1991 Section 114b, Subsection 2b
they are entitled to do this.

I checked this act at: http://tinyurl.com/oksun

But couldn't see anything under section 114 that seemed relevant.

I'm not feeling very confident about this anymore :-(

Charlie

Christian McArdle wrote:

http://www.defra.gov.uk/environment/...ing/rights.htm

The way I read that, the water company can definitely insist on metering and
there is no case against the previous tenants either.

Christian.

On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 05:03:54 -0700, Charlie wrote:

We recently rented our house out for a year and the tenants did not get
our permission to have a water meter installed.

Three Valley are refusing to give us unmetered water now.

On their website it clearly states:
What if I am renting my premises?
You must obtain the permission of your landlord before applying for a meter installation.

so I though I had a fairly strong case.

Has anybody got any ideas or lines of enquiry I could persue to try and
get unmetered water back.

Reason for wanting unmetered water:
Three Valleys currently charge about £130 per year for unmetered water
to a property like ours.
At the moment metered water is costing us approx £20 per month.

Thanks in advance

How many of you are there?
If there is less than four of you then there is a almost certinaly some
scope for water savings.

I think the best that you could hope for is to persue the tenants in the
small claims court for the likely difference multiplied by a few years.

I'm with Three Valleys and 5 people use £20/month.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

Charlie wrote:
OK, I rang Three Valleys Water again and they say that the meter was
"Compulsory Fit" when the tenants moved in.

And that under the Water Industry Act 1991 Section 114b, Subsection 2b
they are entitled to do this.

I checked this act at: http://tinyurl.com/oksun

But couldn't see anything under section 114 that seemed relevant.

I'm not feeling very confident about this anymore :-(

I think you've got the wrong section there, and in any case, the Act
has been extensively amended.

You need section 144A as inserted by the Water Industry Act 1999.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1999/19990009.htm#6

Email me if you have questions.

Sairey

Ed Sirett wrote:

I think the best that you could hope for is to persue the tenants in the
small claims court for the likely difference multiplied by a few years.

Of course he could capitalise on the renting market and just carry on
letting it out, possibly buying a new house with no water meter.

http://www.online-lettings.co.uk/
(if of course he is in Bristol)

crawls back under protective stone
:¬)

Pete

--
http://gymratz.co.uk - Best Gym Equipment & Bodybuilding Supplements UK.
http://trade-price-supplements.co.uk - TRADE PRICED SUPPLEMENTS for ALL!
http://fitness-equipment-uk.com - UK's No.1 Fitness Equipment Suppliers.
http://Water-Rower.co.uk - Worlds best prices on the Worlds best Rower.

You need section 144A as inserted by the Water Industry Act 1999.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1999/19990009.htm#6

Yes, that was my understanding before, that the water supplier is entitled
to install a meter whenever the tenant changes.

Basically, if the OP moved back in, the water company could insist on a
meter right now, even if none already existed.

Christian.

Charlie wrote:
I did see this but to be fair I wasn't sure if it applied since I
wasn't the one who got the meter put in.

E.g. say you buy a house from someone who has recently had a meter put
in. Can you then revert back to non-metered charges because it's
within 18 months?

With our water co., you have a 12 month trial after which you can
revert to the old billihg method. The meter stays in place and as soon
as the property changes hands the new owners have to pay for a meterd
supply.

Question is, can they deem a change of tenants to be the same as change
of ownership?

MBQ

Ed Sirett wrote:
On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 05:03:54 -0700, Charlie wrote:

How many of you are there?
If there is less than four of you then there is a almost certinaly some
scope for water savings.

A metered supply would almost certainly be cheaper than the old method
for less than four people unless you are particularly profligate with
your water.

MBQ

Charlie wrote:
Reason for wanting unmetered water:
Three Valleys currently charge about £130 per year for unmetered water
to a property like ours.
At the moment metered water is costing us approx £20 per month.


Are you sure that £20 is the actual *cost* of the water and not some
semi-random monthly payment based on the previous usage. Ask for a
statement of account and see if you are in credit and can reduce the
monthly payment.

MBQ

wrote in message
oups.com...

Charlie wrote:
Reason for wanting unmetered water:
Three Valleys currently charge about £130 per year for unmetered water
to a property like ours.
At the moment metered water is costing us approx £20 per month.


Are you sure that £20 is the actual *cost* of the water and not some
semi-random monthly payment based on the previous usage. Ask for a
statement of account and see if you are in credit and can reduce the
monthly payment.

And are you sure that you aren't taking Sewerage charges into account in one
bill and not in the other? Anglian water charge over £120 for sewage alone
in the 3 Valleys Area, and I imagine Thames Water's charges are similar.

Andy