Traditionally / historically (to me, at least) it seems that cable drops to
sockets and switches are just that, ie, vertical drops from ceiling to
socket. My question is, is it possible to run cable horizontally and still
comply with the various rules and regs?

Forget Part P and kitchens for now (that will be dealt with properly), I
just want to know if my plan is feasible as it would make life so much
easier.

We're renovating our kitchen and I want to rewire and give it it's own ring
main before plastering and tiling. If I stand looking at my kitchen window,
there is a wall to my right and behind this particular part of it is the
glory hole "under the stairs", on which is mounted the consumer unit, at a
height of about 2ft 4in maybe 2ft 5in.

What I'd like to do is to go under the stairs, drill out through the back of
the consumer unit and then chase a channel out horizontally, at that height,
around that wall, then going vertically up to socket boxes positioned on
that wall above the worktops, finally going up and across the ceiling void
to drop down to sockets on the opposite wall. I'm an absolutely abysmal
drawer but, if you promise not to laugh too much, you can see a very rough
drawing of what I mean he http://tinyurl.com/nyb3v

Thanks for your input, good or bad.

Barry

What I'd like to do is to go under the stairs, drill out through the back
of
the consumer unit and then chase a channel out horizontally, at that
height,
around that wall, then going vertically up to socket boxes positioned on
that wall above the worktops,

In a kitchen, I would run horizontally directly from socket to socket at the
above worktop height. This reduces the circuit length. It is allowed by
regulations, although I would only consider it in the kitchen situation.

Your solution is only acceptable if the horizontal sections are surface
mounted on the wall (i.e. behind the units). If buried, then they would need
physical protection.

Christian.

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 15:55:20 +0100 someone who may be "Barry"
wrote this:-

What I'd like to do is to go under the stairs, drill out through the back of
the consumer unit and then chase a channel out horizontally, at that height,
around that wall, then going vertically up to socket boxes positioned on
that wall above the worktops,

That would be fine if:-

1) all the cable runs are mechanically protected under the surface.

2) the cable is run on the surface.

3) the cable is run horizontally or vertically between visible
sockets, with or without mechanical protection. You could drill
above the consumer unit to come out into the back of a socket and
then run horizontally to the next socket.

finally going up

From a socket as 3), otherwise 1) or 2).

and across the ceiling void

No problem.

to drop down to sockets on the opposite wall.

As in my first paragraph.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
...
What I'd like to do is to go under the stairs, drill out through the back
of
the consumer unit and then chase a channel out horizontally, at that
height,
around that wall, then going vertically up to socket boxes positioned on
that wall above the worktops,

In a kitchen, I would run horizontally directly from socket to socket at
the
above worktop height. This reduces the circuit length. It is allowed by
regulations, although I would only consider it in the kitchen situation.

Your solution is only acceptable if the horizontal sections are surface
mounted on the wall (i.e. behind the units). If buried, then they would
need
physical protection.

Christian.

Thanks for your reply Christian. If you'd be so kind to have a look at my
(equally abysmal) second drawing he http://tinyurl.com/k57ne would that
be the preferable option. I hadn't thought about a socket on the dividing
wall between kitchen and "under the stairs" but it would certainly come in
handy.

Thanks,

Barry

"Barry" wrote in message
...

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
...
What I'd like to do is to go under the stairs, drill out through the
back
of
the consumer unit and then chase a channel out horizontally, at that
height,
around that wall, then going vertically up to socket boxes positioned on
that wall above the worktops,

In a kitchen, I would run horizontally directly from socket to socket at
the
above worktop height. This reduces the circuit length. It is allowed by
regulations, although I would only consider it in the kitchen situation.

Your solution is only acceptable if the horizontal sections are surface
mounted on the wall (i.e. behind the units). If buried, then they would
need
physical protection.

Christian.

Thanks for your reply Christian. If you'd be so kind to have a look at my
(equally abysmal) second drawing he http://tinyurl.com/k57ne would that
be the preferable option. I hadn't thought about a socket on the dividing
wall between kitchen and "under the stairs" but it would certainly come in
handy.

Thanks,

Barry


And you will run a second 2.5 T+E in the same channel, from the
last socket all the way back to the CU to complete the ring?

Or will you run the other leg of the ring a different route back to the CU?

--
Ron

"Ron Lowe" wrote in message
...

"Barry" wrote in message
...

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
...
What I'd like to do is to go under the stairs, drill out through the
back
of
the consumer unit and then chase a channel out horizontally, at that
height,
around that wall, then going vertically up to socket boxes positioned
on
that wall above the worktops,

In a kitchen, I would run horizontally directly from socket to socket at
the
above worktop height. This reduces the circuit length. It is allowed by
regulations, although I would only consider it in the kitchen situation.

Your solution is only acceptable if the horizontal sections are surface
mounted on the wall (i.e. behind the units). If buried, then they would
need
physical protection.

Christian.

Thanks for your reply Christian. If you'd be so kind to have a look at my
(equally abysmal) second drawing he http://tinyurl.com/k57ne would
that be the preferable option. I hadn't thought about a socket on the
dividing wall between kitchen and "under the stairs" but it would
certainly come in handy.

Thanks,

Barry


And you will run a second 2.5 T+E in the same channel, from the
last socket all the way back to the CU to complete the ring?

Or will you run the other leg of the ring a different route back to the
CU?

--
Ron

A different route back Ron. The layout in my useless illustrations is
because the bath is above that particular part of the kitchen and the side
of the bath has been tiled over by the previous occupant of the house. It
looks lovely but there's no obvious way of getting the side of the bath off
without smashing the tiles - hence I can only go up into the ceiling void
once I'm past the bath )

Barry.

In article ,
Barry wrote:
What I'd like to do is to go under the stairs, drill out through the
back of the consumer unit and then chase a channel out horizontally, at
that height, around that wall, then going vertically up to socket boxes
positioned on that wall above the worktops, finally going up and across
the ceiling void to drop down to sockets on the opposite wall. I'm an
absolutely abysmal drawer but, if you promise not to laugh too much,
you can see a very rough drawing of what I mean he
http://tinyurl.com/nyb3v

To comply with regs you should run the cable horizontally between sockets
- not down, horizontal, then up as shown. This is pretty convenient as
you'll usually be covering the cable run with tiles so it doesn't have to
be made good to perfection. It's also worth not actually fixing the
backing boxes until you tile - as it's then possible to get them exactly
uniform between tiles and coarses.

At the first and last socket if you wish to run horizontal from that
you'll need to protect the cable - only vertical is acceptable unprotected.

--
*When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The message
from David Hansen contains these words:

1) all the cable runs are mechanically protected under the surface.

What qualifies as protection?

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Guy King wrote:

The message
from David Hansen contains these words:

1) all the cable runs are mechanically protected under the surface.

What qualifies as protection?


Heavy gauge steel conduit (not the thin stuff). I believe standard capping,
metal or plastic doesn't count.

Or, some types of cable are deemed to be inherently protected, eg MICC, SWA
or earthed-foil screened cable of a certain BS type (can look up if you are
interested).

HTH

Tim

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Barry wrote:
What I'd like to do is to go under the stairs, drill out through the
back of the consumer unit and then chase a channel out horizontally, at
that height, around that wall, then going vertically up to socket boxes
positioned on that wall above the worktops, finally going up and across
the ceiling void to drop down to sockets on the opposite wall. I'm an
absolutely abysmal drawer but, if you promise not to laugh too much,
you can see a very rough drawing of what I mean he
http://tinyurl.com/nyb3v

To comply with regs you should run the cable horizontally between sockets
- not down, horizontal, then up as shown. This is pretty convenient as
you'll usually be covering the cable run with tiles so it doesn't have to
be made good to perfection. It's also worth not actually fixing the
backing boxes until you tile - as it's then possible to get them exactly
uniform between tiles and coarses.

At the first and last socket if you wish to run horizontal from that
you'll need to protect the cable - only vertical is acceptable
unprotected.

--
*When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Thanks very much one and all, I'm a much happier bunny now )

Barry.

Thanks for your reply Christian. If you'd be so kind to have a look at my
(equally abysmal) second drawing he http://tinyurl.com/k57ne would that
be the preferable option.

Looks fine to me. Be careful not to unbalance the ring using a long
unsocketed run back to the consumer unit.

I hadn't thought about a socket on the dividing wall between kitchen and
"under the stairs" but it would certainly come in handy.

In fact, with the layout as proposed, it is essential if you want to avoid
the need for cable protection.

Christian.

In article ,
Christian McArdle wrote:
Looks fine to me. Be careful not to unbalance the ring using a long
unsocketed run back to the consumer unit.

Not sure about that one - it might well happen that most of the load on a
ring is taken off 'one end' only in practice? Doesn't the design allow for
this?

--
*Why is the word abbreviation so long? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
...
Not sure about that one - it might well happen that most of the load on a
ring is taken off 'one end' only in practice? Doesn't the design allow
for
this?

When designing such circuits, I tend to run the flow and return (as it
were)
alongside each other. However, I alternate which cable gets each socket.
This way, balance is usually maintained, even if much of the load tends to
one geographic location.

If you anticipate all the heavy load at one end, you should make
allowances
in the design. Either use 4mm cable, a radial circuit, or the method
above.

Christian.


This may sound a daft question but is there any requirement in the
regulations to balance a circuit?

If it was deemed important wouldn't it have been added? The regulation
already assume a maximum working temperature of 70 degs C for PVC covered
wire where in practice an occasional working temperature over this is not
going to do much harm. In terms of temperature do the regulations take into
account of things like heat above light fittings?