Hi all,

I replaced the old sealant around our bath over the weekend. I took
advantage of the fact that we were away to fill the bath with water and
do the sealant before leaving, letting it fully set before emptying the
bath on our return.

All went well and looked good until this morning I noticed yesterday
that some of the grout around the bottom two rows of tiles was falling
our and this morning noticed that some of the tiles had become loose.

I can only assume that this has happened because the solid sealant
between the tiles and the bath have pushed up on the tiles when the bath
has been emptied.

Is this my fault - or is it the fault of whoever put the tiles up
(previous owner I assume, who seems to have made a cock-of everything
else!) I am of the opinion that I did my bit properly and that the
tiles were not bonded to the wall very well - but am willing to be put
in my place if that's not the case

Finally, what are the chances of me removing the few loose tiles and
refitting them without it looking obvious?

Thanks,
Richard

Richard Conway wrote:
Hi all,

I replaced the old sealant around our bath over the weekend. I took
advantage of the fact that we were away to fill the bath with water and
do the sealant before leaving, letting it fully set before emptying the
bath on our return.

All went well and looked good until this morning I noticed yesterday
that some of the grout around the bottom two rows of tiles was falling
our and this morning noticed that some of the tiles had become loose.

I can only assume that this has happened because the solid sealant
between the tiles and the bath have pushed up on the tiles when the bath
has been emptied.

Is this my fault - or is it the fault of whoever put the tiles up
(previous owner I assume, who seems to have made a cock-of everything
else!) I am of the opinion that I did my bit properly and that the
tiles were not bonded to the wall very well - but am willing to be put
in my place if that's not the case

Finally, what are the chances of me removing the few loose tiles and
refitting them without it looking obvious?

Thanks,
Richard

What sealant did you use ?
Simon.

sm_jamieson wrote:
Richard Conway wrote:
Hi all,

I replaced the old sealant around our bath over the weekend. I took
advantage of the fact that we were away to fill the bath with water and
do the sealant before leaving, letting it fully set before emptying the
bath on our return.

All went well and looked good until this morning I noticed yesterday
that some of the grout around the bottom two rows of tiles was falling
our and this morning noticed that some of the tiles had become loose.

I can only assume that this has happened because the solid sealant
between the tiles and the bath have pushed up on the tiles when the bath
has been emptied.

Is this my fault - or is it the fault of whoever put the tiles up
(previous owner I assume, who seems to have made a cock-of everything
else!) I am of the opinion that I did my bit properly and that the
tiles were not bonded to the wall very well - but am willing to be put
in my place if that's not the case

Finally, what are the chances of me removing the few loose tiles and
refitting them without it looking obvious?

Thanks,
Richard

What sealant did you use ?
Simon.


Evo-Stik Sanitary Sealant:

http://tinyurl.com/jwozy

On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 10:31:48 +0100, Richard Conway
wrote:

Hi all,

I replaced the old sealant around our bath over the weekend. I took
advantage of the fact that we were away to fill the bath with water and
do the sealant before leaving, letting it fully set before emptying the
bath on our return.

All went well and looked good until this morning I noticed yesterday
that some of the grout around the bottom two rows of tiles was falling
our and this morning noticed that some of the tiles had become loose.

I can only assume that this has happened because the solid sealant
between the tiles and the bath have pushed up on the tiles when the bath
has been emptied.

Is this my fault - or is it the fault of whoever put the tiles up
(previous owner I assume, who seems to have made a cock-of everything
else!) I am of the opinion that I did my bit properly and that the
tiles were not bonded to the wall very well - but am willing to be put
in my place if that's not the case

How wide/deep is the seam and how much movement when the bath is
empty/full? That will make a lot of difference.

Might be better to fill most of the seam with closed cell foam eg from
pipe insulation, then put sealant on top. Also fill the bath 1/2 to
2/3 fill so it takes some movement either way.

cheers,
Pete.

Finally, what are the chances of me removing the few loose tiles and
refitting them without it looking obvious?

Thanks,
Richard

Richard Conway wrote:
Finally, what are the chances of me removing the few loose tiles and
refitting them without it looking obvious?

Quite good, if you're careful. Make sure there are no high spots on
the wall or tile. Scrape back on the wall. Remove all grout from
the fallen-off tiles, and around the edges of the ones still in
place. Re-stick tiles, adjusting level as needed, grout with an
appropriately-coloured grout.

Pete C wrote:
On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 10:31:48 +0100, Richard Conway
wrote:

Hi all,

I replaced the old sealant around our bath over the weekend. I took
advantage of the fact that we were away to fill the bath with water and
do the sealant before leaving, letting it fully set before emptying the
bath on our return.

All went well and looked good until this morning I noticed yesterday
that some of the grout around the bottom two rows of tiles was falling
our and this morning noticed that some of the tiles had become loose.

I can only assume that this has happened because the solid sealant
between the tiles and the bath have pushed up on the tiles when the bath
has been emptied.

Is this my fault - or is it the fault of whoever put the tiles up
(previous owner I assume, who seems to have made a cock-of everything
else!) I am of the opinion that I did my bit properly and that the
tiles were not bonded to the wall very well - but am willing to be put
in my place if that's not the case

How wide/deep is the seam and how much movement when the bath is
empty/full? That will make a lot of difference.

The gap is quite big and it does vary quite a lot between full and
empty. It only seems to be two or three tiles though and the gap was
the same all along, so I'm tempted to think that maybe the few coming
off weren't adhered very well.

Might be better to fill most of the seam with closed cell foam eg from
pipe insulation, then put sealant on top. Also fill the bath 1/2 to
2/3 fill so it takes some movement either way.

Is this good advice in general? I always thought you should really fill
it, or is that just for when tiling?

cheers,
Pete.

Finally, what are the chances of me removing the few loose tiles and
refitting them without it looking obvious?

Thanks,
Richard

On Wed, 07 Jun 2006 10:04:28 +0100, Richard Conway
wrote:

The gap is quite big and it does vary quite a lot between full and
empty.

Hmmm, maybe worth looking into how well the bath is supported... or
not! Plenty of info in past postings:

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk.d-i-y/search?group=uk.d-i-y&q=bath+support&qt_g=1&searchnow=Search+this+grou p

It only seems to be two or three tiles though and the gap was
the same all along, so I'm tempted to think that maybe the few coming
off weren't adhered very well.

If the others can be prised off easily then worth doing at the same
time I'd have thought.

Might be better to fill most of the seam with closed cell foam eg from
pipe insulation, then put sealant on top. Also fill the bath 1/2 to
2/3 fill so it takes some movement either way.

Is this good advice in general?

More of a workaround if all else fails, to minimise the force on the
tiles.

I always thought you should really fill
it, or is that just for when tiling?

When tiling it would best be empty, I'd have thought.

Leaving a gap between the tiles and bath that is at least 1/4" and 4x
the amount it moves when filled would be ideal IMHO.

There are special seals that can take a lot of movement and look a bit
ugly too, but it's better to ensure the bath is well supported so they
aren't needed.

cheers,
Pete.

Pete C wrote:
On Wed, 07 Jun 2006 10:04:28 +0100, Richard Conway
wrote:

The gap is quite big and it does vary quite a lot between full and
empty.

Hmmm, maybe worth looking into how well the bath is supported... or
not! Plenty of info in past postings:

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk.d-i-y/search?group=uk.d-i-y&q=bath+support&qt_g=1&searchnow=Search+this+grou p

Cheers for that - it is quite probably that the bath is not supported
properly - as I said, the guy who had the house before has done plenty
of dodgy things! I suspect that its going to be a bit tricky to
retrospectively fit a batten along the wall edge without removing the
bath which I really don't want to do.

My two thoughts we

1) Try and fit maybe 2 battens vertically on the wall under the bath.
Theses would support the lip at the top but be screwed at the bottom
where access is not restricted by the bath itself. This would only work
if there was actually enough room to do it - which is doubtful

2) If there is enough space between the bath and the wall when the tiles
are removed, it may be possible to push two or three angle brackets up
behind the bath and screw them to the wall above it before tiling over.
The L would fit tightly against the lip so as to support it.

If I were to do either of these, what state should the bath be in while
I attach them - full or empty? I don't want to attach supports when its
empty to find that the bath can't take the movement when I fill it up
and starts to crack or something

On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 13:46:20 +0100, Richard Conway
wrote:

1) Try and fit maybe 2 battens vertically on the wall under the bath.
Theses would support the lip at the top but be screwed at the bottom
where access is not restricted by the bath itself. This would only work
if there was actually enough room to do it - which is doubtful

2) If there is enough space between the bath and the wall when the tiles
are removed, it may be possible to push two or three angle brackets up
behind the bath and screw them to the wall above it before tiling over.
The L would fit tightly against the lip so as to support it.

Probably worth investigating how it's supported underneath first, it
might look as if it's been done by 'The Cat In The Hat'...

If I were to do either of these, what state should the bath be in while
I attach them - full or empty? I don't want to attach supports when its
empty to find that the bath can't take the movement when I fill it up
and starts to crack or something

I'd be very wary of supporting the lip on points, it may well do just
that. If the support underneath is checked and sorted then it may well
be OK.

Also check the frame round the panel is supporting that side well.

cheers,
Pete.

Pete C wrote:
On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 13:46:20 +0100, Richard Conway
wrote:

1) Try and fit maybe 2 battens vertically on the wall under the bath.
Theses would support the lip at the top but be screwed at the bottom
where access is not restricted by the bath itself. This would only work
if there was actually enough room to do it - which is doubtful

2) If there is enough space between the bath and the wall when the tiles
are removed, it may be possible to push two or three angle brackets up
behind the bath and screw them to the wall above it before tiling over.
The L would fit tightly against the lip so as to support it.

Probably worth investigating how it's supported underneath first, it
might look as if it's been done by 'The Cat In The Hat'...

If I were to do either of these, what state should the bath be in while
I attach them - full or empty? I don't want to attach supports when its
empty to find that the bath can't take the movement when I fill it up
and starts to crack or something

I'd be very wary of supporting the lip on points, it may well do just
that. If the support underneath is checked and sorted then it may well
be OK.

Also check the frame round the panel is supporting that side well.

cheers,
Pete.

Just thought I'd give an update as to the progress with this.

I took the loose tiles off over the weekend and three things became
apparent:

1) The tiles hadn't be well adhered in the first place - the wall was
uneven and although the adhesive was covering the whole wall, it only
touched the back of the tiles at a few points.

2) The plaster behind the tiles just above the bath was wet and crumbly
- probably due to the old sealant being crap. I don't think this
contributed to the problem though because it's only in a couple of
places and did need some poking at to pull it off.

3) The bath is supported by some kind of metal brackets - I found one
when I poked the plaster off the wall - it seems they were put on before
the wall was skimmed.

So, I am relinquishing all blame for this one, and I'm gonna replace the
crumbled plaster with some one coat and re-tile then re-seal. My only
question is, how long should I leave the on coat to dry before tiling?
Would a week be enough or should it be longer?

Richard Conway wrote:
Just thought I'd give an update as to the progress with this.

I took the loose tiles off over the weekend and three things became
apparent:

1) The tiles hadn't be well adhered

"Stuck"?


in the first place - the wall was
uneven and although the adhesive was covering the whole wall, it only
touched the back of the tiles at a few points.

2) The plaster behind the tiles just above the bath was wet and crumbly
- probably due to the old sealant being crap. I don't think this
contributed to the problem though because it's only in a couple of
places and did need some poking at to pull it off.

3) The bath is supported by some kind of metal brackets - I found one
when I poked the plaster off the wall - it seems they were put on before
the wall was skimmed.

So, I am relinquishing all blame for this one, and I'm gonna replace the
crumbled plaster with some one coat and re-tile then re-seal. My only
question is, how long should I leave the on coat to dry before tiling?
Would a week be enough or should it be longer?

Just 'till it's dry - that'll depend on how thick it is. You can speed
things up a little by using a fan (not heater) after a day or two.

Chris Bacon wrote:
Richard Conway wrote:
Just thought I'd give an update as to the progress with this.

I took the loose tiles off over the weekend and three things became
apparent:

1) The tiles hadn't be well adhered

"Stuck"?


in the first place - the wall was uneven and although the adhesive was
covering the whole wall, it only touched the back of the tiles at a
few points.

2) The plaster behind the tiles just above the bath was wet and
crumbly - probably due to the old sealant being crap. I don't think
this contributed to the problem though because it's only in a couple
of places and did need some poking at to pull it off.

3) The bath is supported by some kind of metal brackets - I found one
when I poked the plaster off the wall - it seems they were put on
before the wall was skimmed.

So, I am relinquishing all blame for this one, and I'm gonna replace
the crumbled plaster with some one coat and re-tile then re-seal. My
only question is, how long should I leave the on coat to dry before
tiling? Would a week be enough or should it be longer?

Just 'till it's dry - that'll depend on how thick it is. You can speed
things up a little by using a fan (not heater) after a day or two.

I did consider this but thought it might be a bit foolish putting an
electric fan in the bath!