I have just moved into a victorian house with a loft room. I think
that the room has been converted over 40 years ago due to lath and
plaster on the walls and the previous owners vague recolection around
that time. There is a staircase leading to it with odd steps and the
door is of reduced height. The floor is currently on the ceiling
joists (about 3"x2") causing them to bow a bit.
What I would like to do is strengthen the existing layout by putting
the floor on independent joists supported by either timber or steel
joists across the house. I would like to improve the stairs and fit a
normal height door, all within the confines of the existing room space.
For peace of mind I would fit a hard wired smoke alarm and escape
velux at the front of the roof (compliant with building regs)

I have spoken to several builders. One said I need buildings regs
approval but the other two said that I didn't really as I was simply
improving the existing situation. I could go down the building regs
route although I am worried that height that the floor would be raised
would cause the need for a dormer on the back above the stairs, which I
don't want. The builders who said no to building regs preffered to use
timber joists 8"x4" rather than steel and hang 4"x2" joists off and sit
them on the main load bearing wall. I know that building regs prefer
you to span this wall although I am not sure why.

Any advice please?

compactpowerhouse wrote:
I have just moved into a victorian house with a loft room. I think
that the room has been converted over 40 years ago due to lath and
plaster on the walls and the previous owners vague recolection around
that time. There is a staircase leading to it with odd steps and the
door is of reduced height. The floor is currently on the ceiling
joists (about 3"x2") causing them to bow a bit.
What I would like to do is strengthen the existing layout by putting
the floor on independent joists supported by either timber or steel
joists across the house. I would like to improve the stairs and fit a
normal height door, all within the confines of the existing room space.
For peace of mind I would fit a hard wired smoke alarm and escape
velux at the front of the roof (compliant with building regs)

I have spoken to several builders. One said I need buildings regs
approval but the other two said that I didn't really as I was simply
improving the existing situation. I could go down the building regs
route although I am worried that height that the floor would be raised
would cause the need for a dormer on the back above the stairs, which I
don't want. The builders who said no to building regs preffered to use
timber joists 8"x4" rather than steel and hang 4"x2" joists off and sit
them on the main load bearing wall. I know that building regs prefer
you to span this wall although I am not sure why.

Any advice please?


You could look at uprating the existing joists to a figure dependant on
the spans involved. 6x2 was common a century ago and performed fine
over 15' spans, but is not br compliant today. You can uprate joists by
gluing and screwing new wood onto the top of the old. In most lofts you
need to keep as much headroom as poss.

AFAIK any creation of a new structure would need to be br compliant.
6x2 is not compliant. Compliance means losing significant headroom.
There lies the problem.

There is one compliant low profile option: a solid wood floor. This is
a joistless self supporting floor typically 3"-4" thick. Cost is more
but its not bad.

There is another way forward which afaik does not need approval, and
thats addition of noggins. Lots of noggins would strengthen the whole
structure considerably. Then you can screw sheet floor down to make a
stressed box construction for further stiffness.

If this option were taken, would people recommend jacking the present
structure up to make it about level before adding the noggins?


NT

Thanks for the advice.

My other question is, once you have gone down the building regs route
does this count as some of your permitted development? I would like to
extend the kitchen at a later date which would obviously be easier
without full planning permission. It would be a shame to lose a
percentage of the permitted development volume on a loft space that has
existed for 40 years.

compactpowerhouse wrote:
Thanks for the advice.

My other question is, once you have gone down the building regs route
does this count as some of your permitted development? I would like to
extend the kitchen at a later date which would obviously be easier
without full planning permission. It would be a shame to lose a
percentage of the permitted development volume on a loft space that has
existed for 40 years.

youre not increasing the external volume of the house any, so there is
no development.

Frankly its going to cost far more to put a new structure in than it
would just to reinforce the existing one, and BRs willl only create
more work.


NT

wrote:
compactpowerhouse wrote:
Thanks for the advice.

My other question is, once you have gone down the building regs route
does this count as some of your permitted development? I would like to
extend the kitchen at a later date which would obviously be easier
without full planning permission. It would be a shame to lose a
percentage of the permitted development volume on a loft space that has
existed for 40 years.

youre not increasing the external volume of the house any, so there is
no development.

?

Loft conversions count towards permitted development. It's nothing to
do with increasing external volume in this case.

The base line is the house as originally built or it's volume in 1948
for anything built previously to that date, so a 40 year old conversion
does use up permitted development.

MBQ

wrote:
wrote:
compactpowerhouse wrote:
Thanks for the advice.

My other question is, once you have gone down the building regs route
does this count as some of your permitted development? I would like to
extend the kitchen at a later date which would obviously be easier
without full planning permission. It would be a shame to lose a
percentage of the permitted development volume on a loft space that has
existed for 40 years.

youre not increasing the external volume of the house any, so there is
no development.

?

Loft conversions count towards permitted development. It's nothing to
do with increasing external volume in this case.

The base line is the house as originally built or it's volume in 1948
for anything built previously to that date, so a 40 year old conversion
does use up permitted development.

MBQ

So it was 'converted' in 1948 instead then....

Loft conversions count towards permitted development. It's nothing to
do with increasing external volume in this case.

Well, if you increase the external volume by 0m3, then you've used 0m3 of
your permitted development. Converting a loft without adding a dormer means
you use none of your permitted development rights.

It effectively does not need planning permission at all, assuming there are
no problems with the window positioning, listed, conservatory area etc. It
can be, however, onerous on the building regulations.

Christian.