I've finally decided to enter the 21st century and give microbore copper
tube a go for some radiators I need to install.

I've just run a couple of lengths of the stuff roughly in place, between
radiator and supply/feed pipes below the floorboards which has
involved some bending around curves etc; next I need to cut off the free
ends to the exact length before connecting them to the rad/pipework.
(I'm using 15-10mm reducers in the TRVs/LSVs, ie compression fittings;
and 15-10mm Yorkshire fittings to the pipework).

Now clearly this stuff deforms extremely easily, but I'm mindful that I
need a perfectly circular section at the tips or my joints won't work.
I've bought one of these gizmos so it will cut cleanly:
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...21946&ts=05537 but am
wondering about where it's been bent and straightened eg to get round
corners. Is there a way of protecting the ends or something, to stop
them getting deformed during installation? Or am I worrying over much?

Would welcome input from anyone who's experienced with the stuff!

David

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
I've finally decided to enter the 21st century and give microbore copper
tube a go for some radiators I need to install.

I've just run a couple of lengths of the stuff roughly in place, between
radiator and supply/feed pipes below the floorboards which has involved
some bending around curves etc; next I need to cut off the free ends to
the exact length before connecting them to the rad/pipework. (I'm using
15-10mm reducers in the TRVs/LSVs, ie compression fittings; and 15-10mm
Yorkshire fittings to the pipework).

Now clearly this stuff deforms extremely easily, but I'm mindful that I
need a perfectly circular section at the tips or my joints won't work.
I've bought one of these gizmos so it will cut cleanly:
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...21946&ts=05537 but am
wondering about where it's been bent and straightened eg to get round
corners. Is there a way of protecting the ends or something, to stop them
getting deformed during installation? Or am I worrying over much?

Would welcome input from anyone who's experienced with the stuff!

David

Just cut a couple of inches off the end if it has deformed during
installation - assuming you have enough 'slack'. Don't forget to insulate
the pipes where you can and especially beneath the floors. heat loss is
lower than 15 and 22mm as the surface area is less but it's still
significant.

For what it's worth I've had a microbore system for over 25 years with no
problems.

Peter

I 'm mindful that I need a perfectly circular section at the tips or my joints won't work.
I've bought one of these gizmos so it will cut cleanly:
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...21946&ts=05537 but am
wondering about where it's been bent and straightened eg to get round
corners.

I think you're worrying too much (!) but...

I've worked with 10mm microbore and you're right, it does have a
tendency to go oval when you bend it. I didn't have any awkward
compression joints to make with the stuff as I used 15mm for rad-tails.
Once out of sight I used soldered 15-10mm reducers and then 10mm back
to the manifold. I am sure compression joints would be less forgiving
than soldered joints if the pipe is deformed. I had no problems at all
with my soldered joints though.

So my advice would be, try to avoid making complicated snaking runs
involving a lot of bending and restraightening as you worm your way
round the corners. You can always make up a series of smaller bent
sections and then solder them together. Soldering 10mm is dead easy
anyway, especially with Yorkshire fittings!

Luke

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
I've finally decided to enter the 21st century and give microbore copper
tube a go for some radiators I need to install.

I've just run a couple of lengths of the stuff roughly in place, between
radiator and supply/feed pipes below the floorboards which has
involved some bending around curves etc; next I need to cut off the free
ends to the exact length before connecting them to the rad/pipework.
(I'm using 15-10mm reducers in the TRVs/LSVs, ie compression fittings;
and 15-10mm Yorkshire fittings to the pipework).

Now clearly this stuff deforms extremely easily, but I'm mindful that I
need a perfectly circular section at the tips or my joints won't work.
I've bought one of these gizmos so it will cut cleanly:
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...21946&ts=05537 but am
wondering about where it's been bent and straightened eg to get round
corners. Is there a way of protecting the ends or something, to stop
them getting deformed during installation? Or am I worrying over much?

Would welcome input from anyone who's experienced with the stuff!

David

====================
I've used 8mm for many years (10mm is similar but less fragile) without any
problems. It helps greatly if you use a spring to unroll / straighten the
tube. In case you're not aware of microbore springs they LOOK like this:

http://www.tooled-up.com/Product.asp...Bending-Spring

Mine has a funnel at one end and obviously it goes over the tube rather than
inside. I THINK that 'Tooled-up' might have their pictures mixed upbecause
I've never seen a 15mm external spring. It would be worth a call to find out
what 'tooled-up' are actually offering.

I've got a couple of cutters similar to the one you're showing and I've
found them completely useless, perhaps because of poor quality manufacture.
I always use a standard pipe cutter - the one with the round knob on the
end. In the distant past I believe that a mini hacksaw was the recommended
method of cutting because it doesn't close up the end of the pipe but I've
never had any problems with the standard cutter.

Cic.

David,

Ihate the stuff your right to be worried it deforms and leaks much easier
than the larger diameters. I would be very carefull of any bends near
fittings try to not bend use 90' fittings and use a simple spring type pipe
bender. Im not a plumber and I hate the 9mm stuff it just leaks al lthe
time. I did some plumbing with 15mm and it was a breeze. Be carefull.

Kev


"Lobster" wrote in message
...
I've finally decided to enter the 21st century and give microbore copper
tube a go for some radiators I need to install.

I've just run a couple of lengths of the stuff roughly in place, between
radiator and supply/feed pipes below the floorboards which has involved
some bending around curves etc; next I need to cut off the free ends to
the exact length before connecting them to the rad/pipework. (I'm using
15-10mm reducers in the TRVs/LSVs, ie compression fittings; and 15-10mm
Yorkshire fittings to the pipework).

Now clearly this stuff deforms extremely easily, but I'm mindful that I
need a perfectly circular section at the tips or my joints won't work.
I've bought one of these gizmos so it will cut cleanly:
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...21946&ts=05537 but am
wondering about where it's been bent and straightened eg to get round
corners. Is there a way of protecting the ends or something, to stop them
getting deformed during installation? Or am I worrying over much?

Would welcome input from anyone who's experienced with the stuff!

David

On Mon, 08 May 2006 21:24:58 GMT, "kevin foote"
wrote:

David,

Ihate the stuff your right to be worried it deforms and leaks much easier
than the larger diameters. I would be very carefull of any bends near
fittings try to not bend use 90' fittings and use a simple spring type pipe
bender. Im not a plumber and I hate the 9mm stuff it just leaks al lthe
time. I did some plumbing with 15mm and it was a breeze. Be carefull.

Kev

9mm .??

Lobster wrote:

I've finally decided to enter the 21st century and give microbore copper
tube a go for some radiators I need to install.

Now clearly this stuff deforms extremely easily, but I'm mindful that I
need a perfectly circular section at the tips or my joints won't work.
Is there a way of protecting the ends or something, to stop
them getting deformed during installation? Or am I worrying over much?

It does tend to deform with a couple of inches of any bend. You can buy
tools to "re-round" the tube, but I used a couple of different sized
drill bits (the blunt ends, obviously). Just push in and wiggle
around...
Once you can get the olive/reducer on, it will tend to force the tube
to a round profile. BTW I also use a smear of Fernox LSX. No leaks yet.

-Antony

replying to Stuart, Martin Moores wrote:
I have a load of 9mm microbore in my house. It's old stuff I have heard and
impossible to get fittings for. I need to replace a few joints now and have
had to replace loads with 10mm.
If anyone knows of a supplier for 9 mm microbore please let me know.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...ng-246065-.htm

On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 15:44:07 UTC, Martin Moores wrote:
replying to Stuart, Martin Moores wrote:
I have a load of 9mm microbore in my house. It's old stuff I have heard and
impossible to get fittings for. I need to replace a few joints now and have
had to replace loads with 10mm.
If anyone knows of a supplier for 9 mm microbore please let me know.

If I were in that position I might mandrel & hammer it out to 10mm.


NT

On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 11:59:28 -0800, tabbypurr wrote:

On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 15:44:07 UTC, Martin Moores wrote:
replying to Stuart, Martin Moores wrote:
I have a load of 9mm microbore in my house. It's old stuff I have heard
and impossible to get fittings for. I need to replace a few joints now
and have had to replace loads with 10mm.
If anyone knows of a supplier for 9 mm microbore please let me know.

If I were in that position I might mandrel & hammer it out to 10mm.


NT

I presume the OP means pre-metric 3/8 inch microbore which is what I've
got. When I had to have a couple of TRVs and lockshield valves replaced
my heating chap used 10mm fittings with extra solder and we haven't had
any leaks (touch wood).

--
TOJ.

On 14/11/2017 22:55, The Other John wrote:
On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 11:59:28 -0800, tabbypurr wrote:

On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 15:44:07 UTC, Martin Moores wrote:
replying to Stuart, Martin Moores wrote:
I have a load of 9mm microbore in my house. It's old stuff I have heard
and impossible to get fittings for. I need to replace a few joints now
and have had to replace loads with 10mm.
If anyone knows of a supplier for 9 mm microbore please let me know.

If I were in that position I might mandrel & hammer it out to 10mm.


NT

I presume the OP means pre-metric 3/8 inch microbore which is what I've
got. When I had to have a couple of TRVs and lockshield valves replaced
my heating chap used 10mm fittings with extra solder and we haven't had
any leaks (touch wood).

Assuming it is copper.

My parents had a system that lasted from 1972 to about 2008 and was
plumbed in 12mm, 10mm, 8mm and 6mm plastic. The only copper was the 22mm
connecting boiler and pump to both floors.

Gradually more and more was replaced with copper from the mid-'90s as
the plastic had become brittle and was very easily cracked if disturbed.

That meant extra work, as the original system had no lockshield valves
and all but two radiators were fed and returned from a single corner
(the valves had both flow and return connections and used an extension
pipe within the radiator to get the feed to the far end. As copper was
put in, the self-balancing of the carefully sized piepwork was disturbed
and feed and return had to be separated to opposite ends of the
radiators to allow lockshields to be fitted.

SteveW

On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 23:27:27 +0000, Steve Walker wrote:

My parents had a system that lasted from 1972 to about 2008 and was
plumbed in 12mm, 10mm, 8mm and 6mm plastic. The only copper was the 22mm
connecting boiler and pump to both floors.

That sounds like the Amtek (?) kit I installed about the same time.
Fortunately we moved before it needed repairs!

--
TOJ.

On Tuesday, 9 May 2006 13:34:15 UTC+1, Antony wrote:
Lobster wrote:

I've finally decided to enter the 21st century and give microbore copper
tube a go for some radiators I need to install.

Now clearly this stuff deforms extremely easily, but I'm mindful that I
need a perfectly circular section at the tips or my joints won't work.
Is there a way of protecting the ends or something, to stop
them getting deformed during installation? Or am I worrying over much?

It does tend to deform with a couple of inches of any bend. You can buy
tools to "re-round" the tube, but I used a couple of different sized
drill bits (the blunt ends, obviously). Just push in and wiggle
around...
Once you can get the olive/reducer on, it will tend to force the tube
to a round profile. BTW I also use a smear of Fernox LSX. No leaks yet.

-Antony

As it's eleven years old,I 'spect the problem has been resolved.

That meant extra work, as the original system had no lockshield valves
and all but two radiators were fed and returned from a single corner
(the valves had both flow and return connections and used an extension
pipe within the radiator to get the feed to the far end. As copper was
put in, the self-balancing of the carefully sized piepwork was
disturbed and feed and return had to be separated to opposite ends of
the radiators to allow lockshields to be fitted.

SteveW


The Lockshield was under a domed cover and was a screw. I thought they were
quite good - but never a thermostatic version so they were doomed.

On 15/11/2017 14:24, DerbyBorn wrote:

That meant extra work, as the original system had no lockshield valves
and all but two radiators were fed and returned from a single corner
(the valves had both flow and return connections and used an extension
pipe within the radiator to get the feed to the far end. As copper was
put in, the self-balancing of the carefully sized piepwork was
disturbed and feed and return had to be separated to opposite ends of
the radiators to allow lockshields to be fitted.

SteveW


The Lockshield was under a domed cover and was a screw. I thought they were
quite good - but never a thermostatic version so they were doomed.

This system didn't have lockshields at all. One valve per radiator and
it had an inlet (with handwheel) and outlet (right next to the inlet).

See
http://www.upperplumbers.co.uk/image...ator_valve.jpg

Balancing was pre-calculated sizing of the pipes to each radiator - for
instance, from memory, the hall radiator (close to the pump and return)
was a very large double panel radiator, connected with two 6mm pipes,
whereas the bathroom radiator (most distant) was a small, single panel
radiator, fed with two 10mm pipes.

SteveW

Steve Walker wrote in
news
http://www.upperplumbers.co.uk/image...g/Upperplumber
s_twin_entry_radiator_valve.jpg

Sorry - never seen that one before - I believe mine were called Twinfast
Valves and all had a balancing screw. I think the last ones were used when
my house was built in 1988. Had one fracture (the actual casting) and had
hell of a job finding one. Ended up in the scrap pile at a local plumbers
to remove one from an old radiator.

On 16/11/2017 08:58, DerbyBorn wrote:
Steve Walker wrote in
news
http://www.upperplumbers.co.uk/image...g/Upperplumber
s_twin_entry_radiator_valve.jpg

Sorry - never seen that one before - I believe mine were called Twinfast
Valves and all had a balancing screw.

That's fair enough, the ones you had made for a simpler system. The ones
my parents had didn't require any adjustment to balance the system, but
did require full calculation of the installation beforehand to ensure
that the system was balanced by pipe lengths and bores.

SteveW