Being a complete numpty when it comes to these things I thought I would ask
her. My landlord is changing the boiler and said he is going to install a
condenser boiler. Can someone tell me if these are better than a standard
boiler and what benefits they have?
The pilot light is forever going out on the one we have so he said he sis
replacing it. We have to light the pilot about 4 times a day, every day


thanks Simon

Simon wrote:
Being a complete numpty when it comes to these things I thought I
would ask her. My landlord is changing the boiler and said he is
going to install a condenser boiler. Can someone tell me if these are
better than a standard boiler and what benefits they have?
The pilot light is forever going out on the one we have so he said he
sis replacing it. We have to light the pilot about 4 times a day,
every day

Beware he doesn't change it to a Worcester otherwise you'll be re-lighting
it 20 times a day.

Condensing boilers use less gas than non condensing, meaning lower bills for
you

Phil L wrote:
Simon wrote:
Being a complete numpty when it comes to these things I thought I
would ask her. My landlord is changing the boiler and said he is
going to install a condenser boiler. Can someone tell me if these are
better than a standard boiler and what benefits they have?
The pilot light is forever going out on the one we have so he said he
sis replacing it. We have to light the pilot about 4 times a day,
every day

Beware he doesn't change it to a Worcester otherwise you'll be re-lighting
it 20 times a day.

Condensing boilers use less gas than non condensing, meaning lower bills for
you


efficiency is about the only good point! the bad points are the crappy
hot water, more expensive repairs/imho(limited experience) and from what
ive heard more frequent repairs. i love my system! nice big fat bath
full of red hot water! cost alot to run tho!

can't you suggest that he just fixes the current boiler, if
raden/andy/ed have a minute they could tell you what it might be and
then you could suggest it to him. if it's a combi anyway then you
probably wont notice a difference apart from the cost maybe

Gav" ""gavbriggs\"@[cut the spam]blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
Phil L wrote:
Simon wrote:
Being a complete numpty when it comes to these things I thought I
would ask her. My landlord is changing the boiler and said he is
going to install a condenser boiler. Can someone tell me if these
are better than a standard boiler and what benefits they have?
The pilot light is forever going out on the one we have so he said
he sis replacing it. We have to light the pilot about 4 times a day,
every day

Beware he doesn't change it to a Worcester otherwise you'll be
re-lighting it 20 times a day.

Condensing boilers use less gas than non condensing, meaning lower
bills for you


efficiency is about the only good point! the bad points are the crappy
hot water, more expensive repairs/imho(limited experience) and from
what ive heard more frequent repairs. i love my system! nice big fat
bath full of red hot water! cost alot to run tho!


Our condensing boiler will fill a bath within 10 minutes, and the water's
almost hot enough to make tea with!
Your other points don't apply because it's the landlord's responsibility to
maintain it.


can't you suggest that he just fixes the current boiler, if
raden/andy/ed have a minute they could tell you what it might be and
then you could suggest it to him. if it's a combi anyway then you
probably wont notice a difference apart from the cost maybe

In message , Gav writes
Phil L wrote:
Simon wrote:
Being a complete numpty when it comes to these things I thought I
would ask her. My landlord is changing the boiler and said he is
going to install a condenser boiler. Can someone tell me if these are
better than a standard boiler and what benefits they have?
The pilot light is forever going out on the one we have so he said he
sis replacing it. We have to light the pilot about 4 times a day,
every day
Beware he doesn't change it to a Worcester otherwise you'll be
re-lighting it 20 times a day.
Condensing boilers use less gas than non condensing, meaning lower
bills for you
efficiency is about the only good point! the bad points are the crappy
hot water, more expensive repairs/imho(limited experience) and from
what ive heard more frequent repairs. i love my system! nice big fat
bath full of red hot water! cost alot to run tho!

can't you suggest that he just fixes the current boiler, if
raden/andy/ed have a minute they could tell you what it might be and
then you could suggest it to him. if it's a combi anyway then you
probably wont notice a difference apart from the cost maybe

If it is a perm. pilot (i looks like it is from the description) then a
dirty pilot jet or thermocouple on the way out sound like the most
likely source of the problem - at a cost of very little to fix

--
geoff

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 21:19:39 GMT, "Phil L"
wrote:

Beware he doesn't change it to a Worcester otherwise you'll be re-lighting
it 20 times a day.

Like how?

Drill a hole in the side of the combustion chamber and chuck a match
in?


--

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 21:31:43 GMT, Gav ""gavbriggs\"@[cut the
spam]blueyonder.co.uk" wrote:

Phil L wrote:
Simon wrote:
Being a complete numpty when it comes to these things I thought I
would ask her. My landlord is changing the boiler and said he is
going to install a condenser boiler. Can someone tell me if these are
better than a standard boiler and what benefits they have?
The pilot light is forever going out on the one we have so he said he
sis replacing it. We have to light the pilot about 4 times a day,
every day

Beware he doesn't change it to a Worcester otherwise you'll be re-lighting
it 20 times a day.

Condensing boilers use less gas than non condensing, meaning lower bills for
you


efficiency is about the only good point! the bad points are the crappy
hot water, more expensive repairs/imho(limited experience) and from what
ive heard more frequent repairs. i love my system! nice big fat bath
full of red hot water! cost alot to run tho!

can't you suggest that he just fixes the current boiler, if
raden/andy/ed have a minute they could tell you what it might be and
then you could suggest it to him. if it's a combi anyway then you
probably wont notice a difference apart from the cost maybe

Ummm..... What do you think the connection is between condensing
boiler and crappy hot water? Did you mean combi?


--

..andy


Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

Matt wrote:
On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 21:19:39 GMT, "Phil L"
wrote:

Beware he doesn't change it to a Worcester otherwise you'll be
re-lighting it 20 times a day.

Like how?

Drill a hole in the side of the combustion chamber and chuck a match
in?

No, it's a red button at the side of a red light, if the red light is
flashing, it means you have to relight the boiler by pressing the red button
for five seconds.....it's all technical stuff.

In message , Phil L
wrote

Condensing boilers use less gas than non condensing, meaning lower bills for
you

What is the actual saving? I get the impression that the hype on the
savings is comparing a modern boiler with something installed 30 years
ago and took two men and a crane to lift on to the wall.

Would an average household run a condensing boiler in the most efficient
way and is a low water content boiler of, say, 15 years age that much
less inefficient?

As a landlord is replacing the boiler the OP will not directly have the
installation charge but how long is the break even pay-back (extra cost
of boiler plus maintenance over lower gas costs)?

I wonder in the case of the OP the cost of repair is a £5 thermocouple
and not a boiler costing hundreds of times more?
--
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 22:20:54 GMT, "Phil L"
wrote:

Matt wrote:
On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 21:19:39 GMT, "Phil L"
wrote:

Beware he doesn't change it to a Worcester otherwise you'll be
re-lighting it 20 times a day.

Like how?

Drill a hole in the side of the combustion chamber and chuck a match
in?

No, it's a red button at the side of a red light, if the red light is
flashing, it means you have to relight the boiler by pressing the red button
for five seconds.....it's all technical stuff.

Never ever had to do that with the (multiple) Worcester's we have.

Just a rotary switch to turn the boiler on and then changing the
programmable thermostat from off to auto.

The diverter valve then moves, the microswitch closes, the boiler fan
starts, the gas valve opens and the boiler lights a few seconds later.

No need for red lights or switches.


--

Andy Hall wrote:
On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 21:31:43 GMT, Gav ""gavbriggs\"@[cut the
spam]blueyonder.co.uk" wrote:

Phil L wrote:
Simon wrote:
Being a complete numpty when it comes to these things I thought I
would ask her. My landlord is changing the boiler and said he is
going to install a condenser boiler. Can someone tell me if these are
better than a standard boiler and what benefits they have?
The pilot light is forever going out on the one we have so he said he
sis replacing it. We have to light the pilot about 4 times a day,
every day
Beware he doesn't change it to a Worcester otherwise you'll be re-lighting
it 20 times a day.

Condensing boilers use less gas than non condensing, meaning lower bills for
you


efficiency is about the only good point! the bad points are the crappy
hot water, more expensive repairs/imho(limited experience) and from what
ive heard more frequent repairs. i love my system! nice big fat bath
full of red hot water! cost alot to run tho!

can't you suggest that he just fixes the current boiler, if
raden/andy/ed have a minute they could tell you what it might be and
then you could suggest it to him. if it's a combi anyway then you
probably wont notice a difference apart from the cost maybe

Ummm..... What do you think the connection is between condensing
boiler and crappy hot water? Did you mean combi?


basically, yes!

raden wrote:
In message , Gav writes
Phil L wrote:
Simon wrote:
Being a complete numpty when it comes to these things I thought I
would ask her. My landlord is changing the boiler and said he is
going to install a condenser boiler. Can someone tell me if these are
better than a standard boiler and what benefits they have?
The pilot light is forever going out on the one we have so he said he
sis replacing it. We have to light the pilot about 4 times a day,
every day
Beware he doesn't change it to a Worcester otherwise you'll be
re-lighting it 20 times a day.
Condensing boilers use less gas than non condensing, meaning lower
bills for you
efficiency is about the only good point! the bad points are the crappy
hot water, more expensive repairs/imho(limited experience) and from
what ive heard more frequent repairs. i love my system! nice big fat
bath full of red hot water! cost alot to run tho!

can't you suggest that he just fixes the current boiler, if
raden/andy/ed have a minute they could tell you what it might be and
then you could suggest it to him. if it's a combi anyway then you
probably wont notice a difference apart from the cost maybe

If it is a perm. pilot (i looks like it is from the description) then a
dirty pilot jet or thermocouple on the way out sound like the most
likely source of the problem - at a cost of very little to fix

told you raden would sort it!

In message , Gav writes
raden wrote:
In message , Gav writes
Phil L wrote:
Simon wrote:
Being a complete numpty when it comes to these things I thought I
would ask her. My landlord is changing the boiler and said he is
going to install a condenser boiler. Can someone tell me if these are
better than a standard boiler and what benefits they have?
The pilot light is forever going out on the one we have so he said he
sis replacing it. We have to light the pilot about 4 times a day,
every day
Beware he doesn't change it to a Worcester otherwise you'll be
re-lighting it 20 times a day.
Condensing boilers use less gas than non condensing, meaning lower
bills for you
efficiency is about the only good point! the bad points are the
crappy hot water, more expensive repairs/imho(limited experience)
and from what ive heard more frequent repairs. i love my system!
nice big fat bath full of red hot water! cost alot to run tho!

can't you suggest that he just fixes the current boiler, if
raden/andy/ed have a minute they could tell you what it might be and
then you could suggest it to him. if it's a combi anyway then you
probably wont notice a difference apart from the cost maybe
If it is a perm. pilot (i looks like it is from the description)
then a dirty pilot jet or thermocouple on the way out sound like the
most likely source of the problem - at a cost of very little to fix

told you raden would sort it!

He has a problem copying CDs at the moment

so the CDs promised might have to wait until I sort the problem out


--
geoff

"Gav" ""gavbriggs\"@[cut the spam]blueyonder.co.uk" wrote in message
. uk...
Phil L wrote:
Simon wrote:
Being a complete numpty when it comes to these things I thought I
would ask her. My landlord is changing the boiler and said he is
going to install a condenser boiler. Can someone tell me if these are
better than a standard boiler and what benefits they have?
The pilot light is forever going out on the one we have so he said he
sis replacing it. We have to light the pilot about 4 times a day,
every day

Beware he doesn't change it to a Worcester
otherwise you'll be re-lighting it 20 times a day.

Condensing boilers use less gas than non condensing, meaning lower bills
for you
efficiency is about the only good point! the bad points are the crappy hot
water,

Total tripe!

more expensive repairs/imho(limited experience)

Total tripe. A condensing boilers is the same as anon-condensing except a
larger heat exchanger.

and from what ive heard more frequent repairs.

Total tripe.

i love my system! nice big fat bath full of red hot water! cost alot to
run tho!

You deserve high bills.

can't you suggest that he just fixes the current boiler,

Best you don't suggest anything and you know sweet nothing about boilers.

"Gav" ""gavbriggs\"@[cut the spam]blueyonder.co.uk" wrote in message
. uk...
Andy Hall wrote:
On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 21:31:43 GMT, Gav ""gavbriggs\"@[cut the
spam]blueyonder.co.uk" wrote:

Phil L wrote:
Simon wrote:
Being a complete numpty when it comes to these things I thought I
would ask her. My landlord is changing the boiler and said he is
going to install a condenser boiler. Can someone tell me if these are
better than a standard boiler and what benefits they have?
The pilot light is forever going out on the one we have so he said he
sis replacing it. We have to light the pilot about 4 times a day,
every day
Beware he doesn't change it to a Worcester otherwise you'll be
re-lighting it 20 times a day.

Condensing boilers use less gas than non condensing, meaning lower
bills for you

efficiency is about the only good point! the bad points are the crappy
hot water, more expensive repairs/imho(limited experience) and from what
ive heard more frequent repairs. i love my system! nice big fat bath
full of red hot water! cost alot to run tho!

can't you suggest that he just fixes the current boiler, if
raden/andy/ed have a minute they could tell you what it might be and
then you could suggest it to him. if it's a combi anyway then you
probably wont notice a difference apart from the cost maybe

Ummm..... What do you think the connection is between condensing
boiler and crappy hot water? Did you mean combi?


basically, yes!

You obviously know nothing about boilers, so best be quiet.

Alan wrote:

What is the actual saving?

That depends...

I get the impression that the hype on the
savings is comparing a modern boiler with something installed 30 years
ago and took two men and a crane to lift on to the wall.

Yup that is often the case (especially if you see overly optimistic
figures posted by dribble)!

Note however that you will get improvements in running costs simply from
upgrading the controls (i.e. better stat, fitting TRVs etc) on old
systems even without changing the boiler.

Would an average household run a condensing boiler in the most efficient

Can't see why not. Modern boilers all tend to be modulating, and hence
will do a good job of matching the actual heat output to the current
demands (better ones can modulate over wider ranges). This also tends to
mean they can keep the return temperature low enough for extra
efficiency gains from the condensing aspect of their operation.

way and is a low water content boiler of, say, 15 years age that much
less inefficient?

Grab yourself a copy of the sedbuk boiler efficiency database browser
from he

http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

And you can see how various boilers compare. Note one anomaly in that
the sedbuk rating does not include the efficiency of producing hot water
(which makes sense for storage systems, but less so for combis). Some of
the condensing combis only run in condensing mode while doing heating.
(the WB Jr range for example)

As a landlord is replacing the boiler the OP will not directly have the
installation charge but how long is the break even pay-back (extra cost
of boiler plus maintenance over lower gas costs)?

Well I presume the Landlord will be paying the maintenance costs as well
so you can factor those out. There is also no reason for a condenser to
require any more maintenance than a conventional boiler of equal
complexity (assuming you he buys one of a reasonably reliable design and
not a hastiliy adapted old design bodged into looking like a condenser).

I wonder in the case of the OP the cost of repair is a £5 thermocouple
and not a boiler costing hundreds of times more?

From the landlords point of view you have to factor how much of his
time does it take dealing with problems on an old system. Even if the
repair is simple and cheap it may not be cost effective if it is
required frequently.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...


Condensing boilers use less gas than non condensing, meaning lower bills
for you
efficiency is about the only good point! the bad points are the crappy
hot water,

Total tripe!


Lower flow rates in a combi?

more expensive repairs/imho(limited experience)

Total tripe. A condensing boilers is the same as anon-condensing except a
larger heat exchanger.


Creating corrosive condensate which rots the heat exchangers.

"Fred" wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...


Condensing boilers use less gas than non condensing, meaning lower
bills for you
efficiency is about the only good point! the bad points are the crappy
hot water,

Total tripe!


Lower flow rates in a combi?

Some have high flowrates. Take your choice.

more expensive repairs/imho(limited experience)

Total tripe. A condensing boilers is the same as anon-condensing except
a larger heat exchanger.

Creating corrosive condensate which rots the heat exchangers.

Not in modern one piece exchanger condensing boilers.

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 21:19:39 GMT someone who may be "Phil L"
wrote this:-

Condensing boilers use less gas than non condensing, meaning lower bills for
you

That is true, provided that the heating system has been
designed/modified for a condensing boiler. If it has not been then
the boiler is unlikely to condense for any significant period and
will behave much like a non-condensing boiler.

Beware of bull**** from manufacturers.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 21:38:12 GMT someone who may be "Phil L"
wrote this:-

Our condensing boiler will fill a bath within 10 minutes, and the water's
almost hot enough to make tea with!

At the risk of getting into a mine's bigger then yours competition,
my non-condensing non-combination boiler will fill a large metal
bath in about four minutes. This it does with the aid of a hot water
cylinder. I spit on your ten lousy minutes:-)


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 21:19:39 GMT someone who may be "Phil L"
wrote this:-

Condensing boilers use less gas
than non condensing, meaning lower bills for
you

That is true,

You got that right. Now let's see what else he says....

provided that the heating system
has been designed/modified for
a condensing boiler.

Oh my God what tripe. A condensing boiler will always be more efficient
than a non-condensing boiler, even when not condensing, because the heat
exchanger is bigger.

An condensing boiler can give great efficiencies if the system around it is
engineered to take advantage of it: larger rads blanced to 60-40C, etc.

Beware of bull**** from manufacturers.

...and people in the Internet.

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 23:51:41 +0100, Alan wrote:

In message , Phil L
wrote

Condensing boilers use less gas than non condensing, meaning lower bills for
you

What is the actual saving? I get the impression that the hype on the
savings is comparing a modern boiler with something installed 30 years
ago and took two men and a crane to lift on to the wall.

Would an average household run a condensing boiler in the most efficient
way and is a low water content boiler of, say, 15 years age that much
less inefficient?

As a landlord is replacing the boiler the OP will not directly have the
installation charge but how long is the break even pay-back (extra cost
of boiler plus maintenance over lower gas costs)?

This is not really the issue. The landlord owns the property and from time
to time big and nasty replacements and renovations will need to take
place i.e Boiler, Roof, Wiring, Kitchen.

The decision to replace the boiler is based on not just on removing the
cost of sending in someone to keep applying first aid. There is the hassle
to the owner and the hassle to the tenant or to a prospective future
tenant. Then there is the possibility that the tenant becomes so
exasperated with the heating that they wish to enforce the Landlord in
his/her duty to 'keep the property in good repair' at least as it was at
the beginning of the tenancy.

It may well be that this boiler was economically repairable
but the nettle would have to be grasped sooner or later.



I wonder in the case of the OP the cost of repair is a £5 thermocouple
and not a boiler costing hundreds of times more?
--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 23:02:48 +0100, Matt wrote:

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 21:19:39 GMT, "Phil L"
wrote:

Beware he doesn't change it to a Worcester otherwise you'll be re-lighting
it 20 times a day.

Like how?


Uh! What! New W-Bs light themselves as many times as needed so also to do
all the other models.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

"Simon" wrote in message
...
Being a complete numpty when it comes to these things I thought I would
ask her. My landlord is changing the boiler and said he is going to
install a condenser boiler. Can someone tell me if these are better than a
standard boiler and what benefits they have?
The pilot light is forever going out on the one we have so he said he sis
replacing it. We have to light the pilot about 4 times a day, every day


thanks Simon


many thanks much appreciated

David Hansen wrote:

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 21:19:39 GMT someone who may be "Phil L"
wrote this:-


Condensing boilers use less gas than non condensing, meaning lower bills for
you


That is true, provided that the heating system has been
designed/modified for a condensing boiler. If it has not been then
the boiler is unlikely to condense for any significant period and
will behave much like a non-condensing boiler.

This will only be true on the very coldest of days (i.e. sub zero
outside) since the rest of the time the boilers control systems will be
able to meet the heating demand without needing maximum temperature output.

I don't think I have seen my boiler *not* condense yet, even though all
the rads were sized for a conventional system.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 20:55:55 +0100, Ed Sirett
wrote:

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 23:02:48 +0100, Matt wrote:

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 21:19:39 GMT, "Phil L"
wrote:

Beware he doesn't change it to a Worcester otherwise you'll be re-lighting
it 20 times a day.

Like how?


Uh! What! New W-Bs light themselves as many times as needed so also to do
all the other models.

Ed, you replied to my post - I already knew what you said,
unfortunately the original poster didn't!


--

On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 20:55:55 +0100 Ed Sirett wrote :
Uh! What! New W-Bs light themselves as many times as needed so also
to do all the other models.

Aren't they required to have a 3 strikes and you're out control.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm
[Latest version QSEDBUK 1.12 released 8 Dec 2005]

In message , Tony Bryer
writes
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 20:55:55 +0100 Ed Sirett wrote :
Uh! What! New W-Bs light themselves as many times as needed so also
to do all the other models.

Aren't they required to have a 3 strikes and you're out control.


You might want to reassess what he was actually on about there

--
geoff

On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 18:01:17 +0100 someone who may be "Doctor
Drivel" wrote this:-

A condensing boiler will always be more efficient
than a non-condensing boiler, even when not condensing, because the heat
exchanger is bigger.

I too have read that, almost word for word, in manufacturers'
brochures. However, the figures for boilers of similar design and
age show that the difference in efficiency between the two is a few
percentage points.

As I typed and you snipped, under such conditions a condensing
boiler "will behave much like a non-condensing boiler."



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54