I am looking for a replacement drill for my Black and Decker 600Watt
2 speed,hammer action,corded,keyed 1/2" chuck which is now many years
old and past it's best .
I'm ordering stuff from Screwfix soon so would prefer to get it from
them .I don't need SDS and have had little need for the hammer action
..I guess that a cordless one needs to be a good ( and therefore
expensive) one so I'm happy enough with a corded one . A keyless chuck
would be helpful unless there is a reason why they are not to be
recommended .??
Anyone any ideas

Stuart

"Stuart" wrote in message
...
I am looking for a replacement drill for my Black and Decker 600Watt
2 speed,hammer action,corded,keyed 1/2" chuck which is now many years
old and past it's best .
I'm ordering stuff from Screwfix soon so would prefer to get it from
them .I don't need SDS and have had little need for the hammer action
.I guess that a cordless one needs to be a good ( and therefore
expensive) one so I'm happy enough with a corded one . A keyless chuck
would be helpful unless there is a reason why they are not to be
recommended .??
Anyone any ideas

Any cheap corded drill with a keyless chuck will do. I have seen them in
the sheds for £15-20.

Stuart wrote:
I am looking for a replacement drill for my Black and Decker 600Watt
2 speed,hammer action,corded,keyed 1/2" chuck which is now many years
old and past it's best .
I'm ordering stuff from Screwfix soon so would prefer to get it from
them .I don't need SDS and have had little need for the hammer action
.I guess that a cordless one needs to be a good ( and therefore
expensive) one so I'm happy enough with a corded one . A keyless chuck
would be helpful unless there is a reason why they are not to be
recommended .??
Anyone any ideas

Ok.
Cheap screwless chucks tend not to be able to be tightened up as much as
even the cheapest drill chucks.

IMO, for a light, DIY, "all-in-one" drill.

Variable speed is essential - for screwdriving for example, as is
reverse.

'aluminum gearbox', or whatever, is a nice option, but it can be fairly
heavy, the two speeds do make for less compromises, however, the drill
may be physically longer.

Bosch PSB500RE+S Percussion Drill 230V
does not look unreasonable, if it supports reverse.

Ian Stirling wrote:

Cheap screwless chucks tend not to be able to be tightened up as much as
even the cheapest drill chucks.

IMO, for a light, DIY, "all-in-one" drill.

Variable speed is essential - for screwdriving for example, as is
reverse.

'aluminum gearbox', or whatever, is a nice option, but it can be fairly
heavy, the two speeds do make for less compromises, however, the drill
may be physically longer.

Yup, if you want to do screw driving then go for one with a gearbox (and
reverse).


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
Ian Stirling wrote:

Cheap screwless chucks tend not to be able to be tightened up as much as
even the cheapest drill chucks.

IMO, for a light, DIY, "all-in-one" drill.

Variable speed is essential - for screwdriving for example, as is
reverse.

'aluminum gearbox', or whatever, is a nice option, but it can be fairly
heavy, the two speeds do make for less compromises, however, the drill
may be physically longer.

Yup, if you want to do screw driving then go for one with a gearbox (and
reverse).

It depends - gearboxes can make the thing a fair bit heavier, and are
not really required if the drill also supports a speed limiter on the
trigger (as 99% of variable speed drills do).
(Unless you're doing BIG screws into hard wood.)

In article ,
Ian Stirling wrote:
It depends - gearboxes can make the thing a fair bit heavier, and are
not really required if the drill also supports a speed limiter on the
trigger (as 99% of variable speed drills do).
(Unless you're doing BIG screws into hard wood.)

A mains drill already has a gearbox, since the armature speed is approx
20,000 rpm. And single speed drills are usually designed to give about
2500 rpm before electronic control. To give a say 600 watt drill decent
slow speed torque for screwdriving this basic speed needs to be under 1000
rpm. But that might make the drill rather restricted for general use.

--
*The more people I meet, the more I like my dog.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 15:46:02 +0000, Stuart
wrote:

I am looking for a replacement drill for my Black and Decker 600Watt
2 speed,hammer action,corded,keyed 1/2" chuck which is now many years
old and past it's best .
I'm ordering stuff from Screwfix soon so would prefer to get it from
them .I don't need SDS and have had little need for the hammer action
.I guess that a cordless one needs to be a good ( and therefore
expensive) one so I'm happy enough with a corded one . A keyless chuck
would be helpful unless there is a reason why they are not to be
recommended .??
Anyone any ideas

How about another B&D?

sponix

On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 11:29:10 GMT, (Sponix) wrote:

On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 15:46:02 +0000, Stuart
wrote:

I am looking for a replacement drill for my Black and Decker 600Watt
2 speed,hammer action,corded,keyed 1/2" chuck which is now many years
old and past it's best .
I'm ordering stuff from Screwfix soon so would prefer to get it from
them .I don't need SDS and have had little need for the hammer action
.I guess that a cordless one needs to be a good ( and therefore
expensive) one so I'm happy enough with a corded one . A keyless chuck
would be helpful unless there is a reason why they are not to be
recommended .??
Anyone any ideas

How about another B&D?

sponix

For better or worse I've gone for this one

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...23096&ts=00699

If the keyless chuck doesnt workproperly I'll try exchanging it fot
the similar keyed Bosch one at the same price..






Stuart

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ,
Ian Stirling wrote:
It depends - gearboxes can make the thing a fair bit heavier, and are
not really required if the drill also supports a speed limiter on the
trigger (as 99% of variable speed drills do).
(Unless you're doing BIG screws into hard wood.)

A mains drill already has a gearbox, since the armature speed is approx
20,000 rpm. And single speed drills are usually designed to give about
2500 rpm before electronic control. To give a say 600 watt drill decent
slow speed torque for screwdriving this basic speed needs to be under 1000
rpm. But that might make the drill rather restricted for general use.

IME, anything 75mm or under will go into almost any wood, just fine with
a 'One speed' drill. A bit over that, and you may need to use a dab of
grease.
A bit over that, and it won't put it all thej way in.

In article ,
Ian Stirling wrote:
A mains drill already has a gearbox, since the armature speed is
approx 20,000 rpm. And single speed drills are usually designed to
give about 2500 rpm before electronic control. To give a say 600 watt
drill decent slow speed torque for screwdriving this basic speed needs
to be under 1000 rpm. But that might make the drill rather restricted
for general use.

IME, anything 75mm or under will go into almost any wood, just fine with
a 'One speed' drill. A bit over that, and you may need to use a dab of
grease. A bit over that, and it won't put it all thej way in.

I'd broadly agree. I've got a fairly ancient B&D Tradesman 2 speed gearbox
variable speed and reverse drill. It was the first one I owned capable of
screw driving. And on the low speed gear it'll drive any screw I've tried,
but not on the high one. Not that the high speed is much use for this
anyway - I like about 50 rpm max for screw driving.

--
*If a thing is worth doing, wouldn't it have been done already?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ,
Ian Stirling wrote:
A mains drill already has a gearbox, since the armature speed is
approx 20,000 rpm. And single speed drills are usually designed to
give about 2500 rpm before electronic control. To give a say 600 watt
drill decent slow speed torque for screwdriving this basic speed needs
to be under 1000 rpm. But that might make the drill rather restricted
for general use.

IME, anything 75mm or under will go into almost any wood, just fine with
a 'One speed' drill. A bit over that, and you may need to use a dab of
grease. A bit over that, and it won't put it all thej way in.

I'd broadly agree. I've got a fairly ancient B&D Tradesman 2 speed gearbox
variable speed and reverse drill. It was the first one I owned capable of
screw driving. And on the low speed gear it'll drive any screw I've tried,
but not on the high one. Not that the high speed is much use for this
anyway - I like about 50 rpm max for screw driving.

Two speed drills tpically have a high speed that goes faster than one
speed drills though, with correspondingly lower torque.

High speed takes getting used to.
I think I typically use around 250RPM.
I put in several hundred 30-60mm screws in a shed, using a Power Base
PB550HB drill, that was IIRC 19.99.

Hold trigger in one hand, and the other hand under the chuck, with it
running on your hand, with the back of your hand supporting the collar,
and the thumb and adjacent finger holding the screw to the chuck.

Adjust the drill to about 250RPM limit.

Put the screw on the bit, touch the screw to the wood, apply a force of
100g or so, and let the drill run until the screw drills in far enough
to bite.
Then rapidly increase the force pressing down on the screw, while
backing off the trigger.
The screw finishes off the very end by the drills inertia.

Ian Stirling wrote:

It depends - gearboxes can make the thing a fair bit heavier, and are
not really required if the drill also supports a speed limiter on the
trigger (as 99% of variable speed drills do).
(Unless you're doing BIG screws into hard wood.)

I was mainly thinking back to the single gear variable speed nutool I
had a play with. Using it to exert the kind of torque required for screw
driving simply resulted in the brushes practically catching fire!

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Stuart" wrote in message
...

I am looking for a replacement drill for my Black and Decker 600Watt

Last week I was talking to a Bosch power tools rep. He was quite objective
and said that PP Pro has taken a slice of all the major companies markets.
He said many men on sites now use PP Pro. He talked favourably about Ryobi
and said their marketing dept had done a good job on the ONE+ range. He
said Bosch had that but with only 14.4v batteries, so missed out, but they
did not market the one battery approach, and give it a name, and did not
sell the 'bare' batteryless tool. he said DeWalt have the one battery range
but have seriously dropped their market share across the board. I said they
are not better than B&D. He agreed.

About having them repaired, he said the men on sites don't bother too much
with normal drills and just buy another as they can't afford the wait. He
put that attitude down to PP Pro gaining ground, which 'can' be cheap enough
to throw away. Although he noted the top of the range is not that cheap.
He said overall PP Pro is good value for money and that the line between
serious DIY and pro is now blurred.

The new Bosch Lith Ion battery drill he rates and gives the torque, but the
men on site will not buy it as they don't think it can do the job viewing
battery voltage as the yardstick, and it does not look macho enough for
them. Around 2 amp/hr is what the site boys are going for. BTW, an Aldi I
went in had for £17 a small fit in your palm type Lith Ion battery driver of
around 7.5v. Looked very handy, and it will probably have the torque of a
NiCad 12v.

His personal view is that 24v is only worth it on SDS drills, as they are
too heavy. He rated the Kress/Wickes range of tools, which he said had
stood the test of time.

On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 00:41:42 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Stuart" wrote in message
.. .

I am looking for a replacement drill for my Black and Decker 600Watt

Last week I was talking to a Bosch power tools rep. He was quite objective
and said that PP Pro has taken a slice of all the major companies markets.
He said many men on sites now use PP Pro. He talked favourably about Ryobi
and said their marketing dept had done a good job on the ONE+ range. He
said Bosch had that but with only 14.4v batteries, so missed out, but they
did not market the one battery approach, and give it a name, and did not
sell the 'bare' batteryless tool. he said DeWalt have the one battery range
but have seriously dropped their market share across the board. I said they
are not better than B&D. He agreed.

About having them repaired, he said the men on sites don't bother too much
with normal drills and just buy another as they can't afford the wait. He
put that attitude down to PP Pro gaining ground, which 'can' be cheap enough
to throw away. Although he noted the top of the range is not that cheap.
He said overall PP Pro is good value for money and that the line between
serious DIY and pro is now blurred.

The new Bosch Lith Ion battery drill he rates and gives the torque, but the
men on site will not buy it as they don't think it can do the job viewing
battery voltage as the yardstick, and it does not look macho enough for
them. Around 2 amp/hr is what the site boys are going for. BTW, an Aldi I
went in had for £17 a small fit in your palm type Lith Ion battery driver of
around 7.5v. Looked very handy, and it will probably have the torque of a
NiCad 12v.

His personal view is that 24v is only worth it on SDS drills, as they are
too heavy. He rated the Kress/Wickes range of tools, which he said had
stood the test of time.


So to sum up, he agreed with all that you've ever said,in detail, with
no disagreements at all. You must have felt completely vindicated,
and should feel justifiably proud.....





--

..andy

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 00:41:42 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Stuart" wrote in message
.. .

I am looking for a replacement drill for my Black and Decker 600Watt


The new Bosch Lith Ion battery drill he rates and gives the torque, but
the men on site will not buy it as they don't think it can do the job
viewing battery voltage as the yardstick, and it does not look macho
enough for them. Around 2 amp/hr is what the site boys are going for.
BTW, an Aldi I went in had for £17 a small fit in your palm type Lith
Ion battery driver of around 7.5v. Looked very handy, and it will
probably have the torque of a NiCad 12v.

His personal view is that 24v is only worth it on SDS drills, as they
are too heavy. He rated the Kress/Wickes range of tools, which he
said had stood the test of time.


So to sum up, he agreed with all that you've ever said,in detail, with
no disagreements at all. You must have felt completely vindicated,
and should feel justifiably proud.....

The bit about wanting macho looking tools but then buying some bargain
basement make simply doesn't ring true.

Brands are everything to that sort of chav.

We have contractors of one sort or another in near continuously. And since
dribble has made this comment before I note what makes they're using.
Invariably Makita, Bosch or DeWalt.

--
*If a pig loses its voice, is it disgruntled? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 10:29:10 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 00:41:42 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Stuart" wrote in message
.. .

I am looking for a replacement drill for my Black and Decker 600Watt


The new Bosch Lith Ion battery drill he rates and gives the torque, but
the men on site will not buy it as they don't think it can do the job
viewing battery voltage as the yardstick, and it does not look macho
enough for them. Around 2 amp/hr is what the site boys are going for.
BTW, an Aldi I went in had for £17 a small fit in your palm type Lith
Ion battery driver of around 7.5v. Looked very handy, and it will
probably have the torque of a NiCad 12v.

His personal view is that 24v is only worth it on SDS drills, as they
are too heavy. He rated the Kress/Wickes range of tools, which he
said had stood the test of time.


So to sum up, he agreed with all that you've ever said,in detail, with
no disagreements at all. You must have felt completely vindicated,
and should feel justifiably proud.....

The bit about wanting macho looking tools but then buying some bargain
basement make simply doesn't ring true.

Brands are everything to that sort of chav.

We have contractors of one sort or another in near continuously. And since
dribble has made this comment before I note what makes they're using.
Invariably Makita, Bosch or DeWalt.


I was going to ask him how the job at Bosch was going, but that
sounded equally implausible.


--

..andy

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

I was going to ask him how the job at Bosch was going, but that
sounded equally implausible.

Unless a knock down deal, I wouldn't buy one. I pointed out to the Bosch
rep about the poor quality experience of Bosch I have had. I told him about
the torque ring that slips from drill to No. 5 a lot, after 6 months,. He
said why didn't you get it repaired under guarantee, I said I couldn't be
bothered with the hassle as I needed it at the time, and how many have done
the same as me, and I pointed out the cheap throw away tools available, so
having them repaired is more hassle than what it is worth with cheap enough
tools. He sort of agreed but pointed out expensive table saws and the likes
can't be thrown away. A different market I pointed out. I find that Bosch
as still in the past in many ways. Probably too big to adjust too quickly.

On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 11:45:24 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .

I was going to ask him how the job at Bosch was going, but that
sounded equally implausible.

Unless a knock down deal, I wouldn't buy one. I pointed out to the Bosch
rep about the poor quality experience of Bosch I have had. I told him about
the torque ring that slips from drill to No. 5 a lot, after 6 months,. He
said why didn't you get it repaired under guarantee, I said I couldn't be
bothered with the hassle as I needed it at the time, and how many have done
the same as me, and I pointed out the cheap throw away tools available, so
having them repaired is more hassle than what it is worth with cheap enough
tools. He sort of agreed but pointed out expensive table saws and the likes
can't be thrown away. A different market I pointed out. I find that Bosch
as still in the past in many ways. Probably too big to adjust too quickly.

Ah... sorry.... I thought it was you describing your first week
working at Bosch.... and that you were the rep in question.



--

..andy

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 11:45:24 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
. ..

I was going to ask him how the job at Bosch was going, but that
sounded equally implausible.

Unless a knock down deal, I wouldn't buy one. I pointed out to the Bosch
rep about the poor quality experience of Bosch I have had. I told him
about
the torque ring that slips from drill to No. 5 a lot, after 6 months,. He
said why didn't you get it repaired under guarantee, I said I couldn't be
bothered with the hassle as I needed it at the time, and how many have
done
the same as me, and I pointed out the cheap throw away tools available, so
having them repaired is more hassle than what it is worth with cheap
enough
tools. He sort of agreed but pointed out expensive table saws and the
likes
can't be thrown away. A different market I pointed out. I find that Bosch
as still in the past in many ways. Probably too big to adjust too
quickly.

Ah... sorry.... I thought it was you describing your first week
working at Bosch.... and that you were the rep in question.

Matt , you are barking.

On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 14:22:56 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 11:45:24 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

I was going to ask him how the job at Bosch was going, but that
sounded equally implausible.

Unless a knock down deal, I wouldn't buy one. I pointed out to the Bosch
rep about the poor quality experience of Bosch I have had. I told him
about
the torque ring that slips from drill to No. 5 a lot, after 6 months,. He
said why didn't you get it repaired under guarantee, I said I couldn't be
bothered with the hassle as I needed it at the time, and how many have
done
the same as me, and I pointed out the cheap throw away tools available, so
having them repaired is more hassle than what it is worth with cheap
enough
tools. He sort of agreed but pointed out expensive table saws and the
likes
can't be thrown away. A different market I pointed out. I find that Bosch
as still in the past in many ways. Probably too big to adjust too
quickly.

Ah... sorry.... I thought it was you describing your first week
working at Bosch.... and that you were the rep in question.

Matt , you are barking.

That's in Essex.


--

..andy

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 14:22:56 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

Ah... sorry.... I thought it was you describing your first week
working at Bosch.... and that you were the rep in question.

Matt , you are barking.

In this case I'd agree with dribble, Andy. No company the size of Bosch
could employ idiots and survive.

That's in Essex.

--
*If God dropped acid, would he see people?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 14:22:56 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 11:45:24 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
m...

I was going to ask him how the job at Bosch was going, but that
sounded equally implausible.

Unless a knock down deal, I wouldn't buy one. I pointed out to the
Bosch
rep about the poor quality experience of Bosch I have had. I told him
about
the torque ring that slips from drill to No. 5 a lot, after 6 months,.
He
said why didn't you get it repaired under guarantee, I said I couldn't
be
bothered with the hassle as I needed it at the time, and how many have
done
the same as me, and I pointed out the cheap throw away tools available,
so
having them repaired is more hassle than what it is worth with cheap
enough
tools. He sort of agreed but pointed out expensive table saws and the
likes
can't be thrown away. A different market I pointed out. I find that
Bosch
as still in the past in many ways. Probably too big to adjust too
quickly.

Ah... sorry.... I thought it was you describing your first week
working at Bosch.... and that you were the rep in question.

Matt , you are barking.

That's in Essex.

Many from Essex are barking.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 14:22:56 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

Ah... sorry.... I thought it was you describing your first week
working at Bosch.... and that you were the rep in question.

Matt , you are barking.

In this case I'd agree

*** snip senile babble and drivel **

Sad isn't it, but is has to be snipped.

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ,
Ian Stirling wrote:
It depends - gearboxes can make the thing a fair bit heavier, and are
not really required if the drill also supports a speed limiter on the
trigger (as 99% of variable speed drills do).
(Unless you're doing BIG screws into hard wood.)

A mains drill already has a gearbox, since the armature speed is approx
20,000 rpm. And single speed drills are usually designed to give about
2500 rpm before electronic control. To give a say 600 watt drill decent
slow speed torque for screwdriving this basic speed needs to be under
1000
rpm. But that might make the drill rather restricted for general use.

IME, anything 75mm or under will go into almost any wood, just fine with
a 'One speed' drill. A bit over that, and you may need to use a dab of
grease.
A bit over that, and it won't put it all thej way in.

You need an Impact Driver.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 14:22:56 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

Ah... sorry.... I thought it was you describing your first week
working at Bosch.... and that you were the rep in question.
Matt , you are barking.

In this case I'd agree with dribble, Andy. No company the size of Bosch
could employ idiots and survive.

Errrrrr, a company the size of Bosch can employ many idiots and survive.
And inevitably it will have multiple idiots in various divisions. I've
worked with many companies from tiny to absolutely fecking huge and in
general the larger and more successful the company the greater the
IdiotLoad carried, and the more work is done covering up their mistakes
and/or trying to ensure that those mistakes never become public.

"Steve Firth" fresh from kicking **** wrote in
message ...
Dave Plowman (News) through a haze of senile flatulence wrote:
In article ,
Andy Hall aka Matt wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 14:22:56 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

Ah... sorry.... I thought it was you describing your first week
working at Bosch.... and that you were the rep in question.
Matt , you are barking.

In this case


** snip senility **

Errrrrr, a company the size of Bosch can employ many idiots and survive.

What company carried you?

On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 16:43:23 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:




Many from Essex are barking.


Are you sure you're not Plaistowed?


--

..andy

Andy Hall wrote:

Are you sure you're not Plaistowed?

I was born there - could explain a lot..............


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

In article ,
Steve Firth wrote:
In this case I'd agree with dribble, Andy. No company the size of Bosch
could employ idiots and survive.

Errrrrr, a company the size of Bosch can employ many idiots and survive.
And inevitably it will have multiple idiots in various divisions. I've
worked with many companies from tiny to absolutely fecking huge and in
general the larger and more successful the company the greater the
IdiotLoad carried, and the more work is done covering up their mistakes
and/or trying to ensure that those mistakes never become public.

Yehbut someone like dribble? He's in a class of his own.

--
*If God had wanted me to touch my toes, he would have put them on my knees

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.