Do the wiring regulations permit a 13amp ring main spur to start at the consumer
unit. i.e. The two ring main cables, and the spur cable would connect together
at the consumer unit.

--

Michael Chare

"Michael Chare" wrote in message
...
Do the wiring regulations permit a 13amp ring main spur to start at the
consumer
unit. i.e. The two ring main cables, and the spur cable would connect
together
at the consumer unit.

Why not put the spur on its own mcb for better protection, organisation and
neatness, if you have a spare mcb slot of course.

Michael Chare wrote:

Do the wiring regulations permit a 13amp ring main spur to start at the consumer
unit. i.e. The two ring main cables, and the spur cable would connect together
at the consumer unit.

Yes, that is allowed. The spur can of course only feed one single or
double socket, or one item of fixed equipment.

--
Andy

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"Michael Chare" wrote in message
...
Do the wiring regulations permit a 13amp ring main spur to start at the
consumer
unit. i.e. The two ring main cables, and the spur cable would connect
together
at the consumer unit.

Why not put the spur on its own mcb for better protection, organisation and
neatness, if you have a spare mcb slot of course.

Yes, - but I knew that I could do that! - I may have to if I can't get three
wires into the fuse box terminal.

--

Michael Chare

Doctor Drivel wrote:


"Michael Chare" wrote in message
...

Do the wiring regulations permit a 13amp ring main spur to start at
the consumer
unit. i.e. The two ring main cables, and the spur cable would connect
together
at the consumer unit.


Why not put the spur on its own mcb for better protection, organisation
and neatness, if you have a spare mcb slot of course.

Stupid boy!

Why not answer the question?

Dave

On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 13:52:09 +0000, Andy Wade
wrote:

Michael Chare wrote:

Do the wiring regulations permit a 13amp ring main spur to start at the consumer
unit. i.e. The two ring main cables, and the spur cable would connect together
at the consumer unit.

Yes, that is allowed. The spur can of course only feed one single or
double socket, or one item of fixed equipment.


Does that also apply to taking a feed for a light in the cupboard the
cons unit is fitted from one of the lighting circuits in n the cons
unit ..




Stuart















--

Shift THELEVER to reply.

Stuart wrote:

Does that also apply to taking a feed for a light in the cupboard the
cons unit is fitted from one of the lighting circuits in n the cons
unit ..

Yes - but bear in mind that it's a good idea to have such a light on a
different circuit to the other surrounding lighting.

--
Andy

On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 23:03:35 +0000, Stuart
wrote:

On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 13:52:09 +0000, Andy Wade
wrote:

Michael Chare wrote:

Do the wiring regulations permit a 13amp ring main spur to start at the consumer
unit. i.e. The two ring main cables, and the spur cable would connect together
at the consumer unit.

Yes, that is allowed. The spur can of course only feed one single or
double socket, or one item of fixed equipment.


Does that also apply to taking a feed for a light in the cupboard the
cons unit is fitted from one of the lighting circuits in n the cons
unit ..



If you were feeding a light from a ring circuit, then the connection
would have to go via a fused spur unit with 3A fuse.

A better solution would be to connect the light to one of the lighting
circuit MCBs - normally 6A

A better solution still would be to make the light a maintained
emergency fitting and to have it switched on when you open the
cupboard door. Little 8W ones are available for about £18.



--

..andy

Andy Hall wrote:

A better solution still would be to make the light a maintained
emergency fitting and to have it switched on when you open the
cupboard door. Little 8W ones are available for about £18.

Oh, the door switch is a nice wrinkle I had not thought of doing ;-)
(works well in fridges I guess)

Out of interest where can you get maintained fittings for £18? (I know
TLC do non maintained ones for that sort of money[1], but not seen a
maintained one at that price)

[1] I needed a bog standard rectangular fluorescent bulkhead type
fitting for a friends garage/workshop the other day, so I bought one of
the newer cheaper non maintained ones they added to the catalogue
recently. IIRC was about £14 instead of the normal £20 for the Legrand
ones. It was actually a *much* better design from the POV of the
installer. The base could be fixed in place and the the main module with
tube and Tx etc fixed in place and then hinged down for wiring. Hence
you did not need to play the game of dangle a 'kin heavy fitting from
the supply wires).

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article , Andy Wade
writes

Yes, that is allowed. The spur can of course only feed one single or
double socket, or one item of fixed equipment.

Wouldn't that mean the spur would be fed from a 32A MCB (since the OP is
talking about connecting the spur to the same MCB as a ring final
circuit), and thus be incorrect? I'd have said that a spur wired using
2.5mm cable should have a 16A or 20A breaker.

In article ,
Michael Chare wrote:
Yes, - but I knew that I could do that! - I may have to if I can't get
three wires into the fuse box terminal.

They tend to be the same size as those in sockets, so will take 3 x 2.5mm
cables ok.

--
*A 'jiffy' is an actual unit of time for 1/100th of a second.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Mike Tomlinson wrote:
Yes, that is allowed. The spur can of course only feed one single or
double socket, or one item of fixed equipment.

Wouldn't that mean the spur would be fed from a 32A MCB (since the OP is
talking about connecting the spur to the same MCB as a ring final
circuit), and thus be incorrect? I'd have said that a spur wired using
2.5mm cable should have a 16A or 20A breaker.

In principle it's no different from any other spur on a ring. However,
if the proposed new socket has easy wiring access to the CU (as is
obvious) I'd say it would also be easy to incorporate it into the ring
rather than making it a spur.

--
*I speak fluent patriarchy but it's not my mother tongue

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Trevor Smith wrote:

I thought that all spurs on a ring main are fed from a 30A fuse/32A MCB
or have I got it wrong all these years

No, you're quite correct. The 30 or 32 A device only provides s/c
protection for the cable; overload protection is provided by the 13 A
plug or FCU fuse(s) downstream. That's why there's a restriction to one
load point (it being assumed that the load on a double 13 A socket won't
exceed 20 A, and that only one side might be overloaded at any
particular time).

--
Andy

Yes, that is allowed. The spur can of course only feed one single or
double socket, or one item of fixed equipment.

Wouldn't that mean the spur would be fed from a 32A MCB (since the OP is
talking about connecting the spur to the same MCB as a ring final
circuit),

Yes.

and thus be incorrect? I'd have said that a spur wired using
2.5mm cable should have a 16A or 20A breaker.

No. A shortish length of 2.5mm may be short circuit protected by a 32A Type
B MCB, provided that alternative means are found to protect against overload
current. Such overload protection may be downstream in the form of BS1362
plug top fuses, provided that only one accessory (such as a double socket or
fused connection unit) is attached.

Christian.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

They tend to be the same size as those in sockets, so will take 3 x 2.5mm
cables ok.

IME, they tend to be a good deal larger than that on modern CUs... the
screw connection on the top of the MCBs tesds to be common across the
range regardless of the actuall MCB rating. Hence are usually good for a
16mm^2 cable, and the neutral bus bar will usually have at least some
locations that will take that size.

(much depends on the type/age of CU we are talking about here)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Michael Chare" wrote in message
news
"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"Michael Chare" wrote in message
...
Do the wiring regulations permit a 13amp ring main spur to start at the
consumer
unit. i.e. The two ring main cables, and the spur cable would connect
together
at the consumer unit.

Why not put the spur on its own mcb for better protection, organisation
and
neatness, if you have a spare mcb slot of course.

Yes, - but I knew that I could do that! - I may have to if I can't get
three
wires into the fuse box terminal.

If the spare slot is there use it, and do it professionally.

On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 01:57:07 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 23:03:35 +0000, Stuart
wrote:

On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 13:52:09 +0000, Andy Wade
wrote:

Michael Chare wrote:

Do the wiring regulations permit a 13amp ring main spur to start at the consumer
unit. i.e. The two ring main cables, and the spur cable would connect together
at the consumer unit.

Yes, that is allowed. The spur can of course only feed one single or
double socket, or one item of fixed equipment.


Does that also apply to taking a feed for a light in the cupboard the
cons unit is fitted from one of the lighting circuits in n the cons
unit ..



If you were feeding a light from a ring circuit, then the connection
would have to go via a fused spur unit with 3A fuse.

A better solution would be to connect the light to one of the lighting
circuit MCBs - normally 6A

A better solution still would be to make the light a maintained
emergency fitting and to have it switched on when you open the
cupboard door. Little 8W ones are available for about £18.


I was intending taking it from the lighting circuit mcb but as
someone else said a better idea would be to use a spare mcb so it's on
it's own .
Stuart





Shift THELEVER to reply.

Doctor Drivel wrote:

If the spare slot is there use it, and do it professionally.

Do stop talking crap.

A spur is a perfectly legal and acceptable way of extending a ring final
circuit. There is no reason said extension can not be taken from the
consumer unit if that is the most logical place to take it from.

The choice of how to feed the circuit should be decided by the intended
use of the extension, and where it logically "fits" in the whole design.
For example it may make far more sense if adding one extra socket to a
"downstairs" power circuit to keep if fed from the same MCB as all the
other sockets. Otherwise you create an additional safety risk when a
future maintainer comes along and turns off the downstairs socket
circuit without realising that one of them is fed from its own MCB that
some plank forgot to label. If however you are adding a supply for a set
of interlinked smoke detectors then that would be far better taken from
a dedicated MCB.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Stuart wrote:

I was intending taking it from the lighting circuit mcb but as
someone else said a better idea would be to use a spare mcb so it's on
it's own .

If you go for an emergency light fitting like that which Andy described,
then it makes most sense when powered from the lighting circuit that
feeds the lights that normally illuminate the consumer unit.

That way when you lose power to that circuit the light turns itself on
for you, and you can still find the CU even though the other lights on
that floor are tripped.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Doctor Drivel wrote:

And encourage people to do cowboy work? You would do that wouldn't you?
You are lower than whale ****.

You were the one offering advice without being fully aware of the OP's
circumstances and requirements.

Butch Drivel and the Hacksaw Kid?

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
Doctor Drivel wrote:

And encourage people to do cowboy work? You would do that wouldn't
you? You are lower than whale ****.

You were the one offering advice without being fully aware of the OP's
circumstances and requirements.

Dribble in a previous guise had to ask here on how to wire an intermediate
switch - not that he actually knew it was called that. So any of his
'advice' on electrical matters should be taken with that in mind.

--
*When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"John Rumm" aka Pat-n-Dave wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

If the spare slot is there use it, and do it professionally.

Do stop talking crap.

A spur is a perfectly legal and acceptable way of extending a ring final
circuit.

He is taking a cable into a CU with a spare mcb slot. All he has to do is
buy an mcb and keep that circuit separate. Neat and easy and not ramming
too many cables into one terminal. The professional way of doing it.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
Doctor Drivel wrote:

And encourage people to do cowboy work? You would do that wouldn't
you? You are lower than whale ****.

You were the one offering advice without being fully aware of the OP's
circumstances and requirements.

Dribble in a previous guise had to ask here on how to wire an intermediate
switch

Mr Cranium, you should stop telling porkies for lent.

Doctor Drivel wrote:

He is taking a cable into a CU with a spare mcb slot. All he has to do
is buy an mcb and keep that circuit separate.

It may be that is should not be separate in the first place. I gave you
an example of when this would be poor design. It is easy to think of
plenty of other cases where not having a separate circuit makes more sense.

It all depends on what the circuit extension is for. Since you don't
know, it is better to stop guessing.

Neat and easy and not
ramming too many cables into one terminal.

You have never wired a modern CU have you? Get real.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

He is taking a cable into a CU with a spare mcb slot. All he has to do is
buy an mcb and keep that circuit separate.

It is not a good idea to have a stray socket on the wrong circuit, as it can
lead to electrocution when the wrong circuit is disabled. Subdivision of
circuits should be thought about and executed on a logical system. You don't
just put a single socket on its own MCB just because you can.

Neat and easy and not ramming too many cables into one terminal.

Have you ever installed a modern consumer unit? You could probably "ram" 10
2.5mm cables into one MCB. They are designed to swallow enourmous bundles of
cable. 3x2.5mm won't trouble it one bit.

Christian.

"John Rumm" aka Pat-n-Dave wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

He is taking a cable into a CU with a spare mcb slot. All he has to do
is buy an mcb and keep that circuit separate.

It may be that is should not be separate in the first place. I gave you an
example of when this would be poor design. It is easy to think of plenty
of other cases where not having a separate circuit makes more sense.

It all depends on what the circuit extension is for. Since you don't know,
it is better to stop guessing.

Neat and easy and not ramming too many cables into one terminal.

You have never wired a modern CU have you? Get real.

Pat-n-Dave, I have wired everything.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
...
He is taking a cable into a CU with a spare mcb slot. All he has to do
is
buy an mcb and keep that circuit separate.

It is not a good idea to have a stray socket on the wrong circuit, as it
can
lead to electrocution when the wrong circuit is disabled. Subdivision of
circuits should be thought about and executed on a logical system. You
don't
just put a single socket on its own MCB just because you can.

Neat and easy and not ramming too many cables into one terminal.

Have you ever installed a modern consumer unit?

Yep.

Doctor Drivel wrote:

Dribble in a previous guise had to ask here on how to wire an
intermediate
switch


Mr Cranium, you should stop telling porkies for lent.

When in glass houses, stop throwing stones:

http://groups.google.com/group/uk.d-...27ff26bfff3 9


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
Dribble in a previous guise had to ask here on how to wire an
intermediate
switch

Mr Cranium, you should stop telling porkies for lent.

When in glass houses, stop throwing stones:

http://groups.google.com/group/uk.d-...27ff26bfff3 9

John isn't going to like this. But should realise denial is a symptom of
his illness.

--
*I am a nobody, and nobody is perfect; therefore I am perfect*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"John Rumm" aka Pat-n-dave wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Dribble in a previous guise had to ask here on how to wire an
intermediate
switch

Mr Cranium, you should stop telling porkies for lent.

When in glass houses, stop throwing stones:

Pat-n-dave, you are a fool. I know you are from Essex, but that was to add
value for the OP. Anyone can see that.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ,
John Rumm aka Pat-no-dave wrote:
Dribble in a previous guise had to ask here on how to wire an
intermediate
switch

Mr Cranium, you should stop telling porkies for lent.

When in glass houses, stop throwing stones:

** snip senile tripe **

New Years Eve, so the home have allowed them on the pop.

The message
from "Dave Plowman (News)" contains these words:

Mr Cranium, you should stop telling porkies for lent.

When in glass houses, stop throwing stones:

http://groups.google.com/group/uk.d-...27ff26bfff3 9

John isn't going to like this. But should realise denial is a symptom of
his illness.

Just doing research wasn't he? ISTR that was his excuse for asking what
latent heat was but I can't recall why he asked if metres cubed was a
measure of velocity. :-)

--
Roger Chapman

Roger wrote:

Just doing research wasn't he? ISTR that was his excuse for asking what
latent heat was

Yes, and the original question is he
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.h...e=source&hl=en

but I can't recall why he asked if metres cubed was a
measure of velocity. :-)

That wasn't quite the question - it was "Is this linear speed in cubic
metres per second?" and it came up in a discussion on pipe sizing:
http://groups.google.com/group/uk.d-...e=source&hl=en

--
Andy

"Roger" wrote appalling Rogerness in message
k...

** snip Rogerness **

--
Roger Chapman

Roger you really must work at your problem as new year resolution..

"Andy Wade" wrote nerdy stuff in message
...
Roger wrote: Rogerness:

--
Andy

You really must get yourself sorted.

"John Rumm" aka pat-n-dave wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

but that was to add value for the OP. Anyone can see that.

Anyone can see you are a lying retard.

Amazing, pat-n-dave, amazing. Are you wearing your Chav Essex clothes you
got for Christmas?