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Posted to uk.d-i-y
altheman
 
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Default CENTRAL HEATING..BOTH SWITCHES ON OR NOT?

hello, this may a stupid question to some but to me it is not...i have
recently moved into another house...the current central heating system is
run with a ...RANDALL 4033 PROGRAMMER....it has 2 switches...one that
controls the hot water...the other controls the central heating (
radiators)...what i can gather the PROGRAMMER is approx 20yrs old...but
still seems to work perfectly...my question therefore is....do i need to put
both switches down to run just the central heating ?..for just the hot
water i only put 1 switch down...but someone said that to run the radiators
i had to put both switches down...even if i only wanted radiators on and NOT
hot water,we also have a BAXI gas fire with a back boiler ( if that is of
any importance)..many thanks in advance


  #2   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
EricP
 
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Default CENTRAL HEATING..BOTH SWITCHES ON OR NOT?

On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 21:00:02 -0000, "altheman" alan@ford50(no
spam).freeserve.co.uk wrote:

hello, this may a stupid question to some but to me it is not...i have
recently moved into another house...the current central heating system is
run with a ...RANDALL 4033 PROGRAMMER....it has 2 switches...one that
controls the hot water...the other controls the central heating (
radiators)...what i can gather the PROGRAMMER is approx 20yrs old...but
still seems to work perfectly...my question therefore is....do i need to put
both switches down to run just the central heating ?..for just the hot
water i only put 1 switch down...but someone said that to run the radiators
i had to put both switches down...even if i only wanted radiators on and NOT
hot water,we also have a BAXI gas fire with a back boiler ( if that is of
any importance)..many thanks in advance

Can you say whether you have gravity HW or is it all pumped?
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Posted to uk.d-i-y
altheman
 
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Default CENTRAL HEATING..BOTH SWITCHES ON OR NOT?

hi, thanks for the speedy response....i am not sure if i have gravity hw or
all pumped..the set up is as follows....i have in the loft a main tank...and
a header tank....and also in the airing cupboard there is a big tank that
actually holds the hot water...not sure if that is the type of information
that will help...but personnaly i have no ideas about central
heating..sorry...thanks again


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raden
 
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Default CENTRAL HEATING..BOTH SWITCHES ON OR NOT?

In message , altheman
writes
hi, thanks for the speedy response....i am not sure if i have gravity hw or
all pumped..the set up is as follows....i have in the loft a main tank...and
a header tank....and also in the airing cupboard there is a big tank that
actually holds the hot water...not sure if that is the type of information
that will help...but personnaly i have no ideas about central
heating..sorry...thanks again


Just try it and see then ...

Did you not think to play with it a bit before it suddenly became an
urgent problem ?


--
geoff
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Posted to uk.d-i-y
EricP
 
Posts: n/a
Default CENTRAL HEATING..BOTH SWITCHES ON OR NOT?

On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 22:06:25 -0000, "altheman" alan@ford50(no
spam).freeserve.co.uk wrote:

hi, thanks for the speedy response....i am not sure if i have gravity hw or
all pumped..the set up is as follows....i have in the loft a main tank...and
a header tank....and also in the airing cupboard there is a big tank that
actually holds the hot water...not sure if that is the type of information
that will help...but personnaly i have no ideas about central
heating..sorry...thanks again

Ay it's simplest installation, the HW switch simply turns the boiler
on and the other switch just turns the CH pump on to pull the water
through the radiators.

Turn both switches off and let the boiler cool down.

Turn the HW switch on and the boiler should ignite.
Turn that off and turn the CH switch on. You should just hear the pump
whining away somewhere but the boiler won't ignite.

Thus you have an unpumped HW system with the pump turning the
radiators on.

If the second switch also turns the boiler on as well as the pump, you
will have some motorised valve in the pipework somewhere.

You really need someone mildly familiar with CH to have a look at it
and identify what does what.



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Posted to uk.d-i-y
chris French
 
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Default CENTRAL HEATING..BOTH SWITCHES ON OR NOT?

In message , altheman
writes
hello, this may a stupid question to some but to me it is not...i have
recently moved into another house...the current central heating system is
run with a ...RANDALL 4033 PROGRAMMER....it has 2 switches...one that
controls the hot water...the other controls the central heating (
radiators)...what i can gather the PROGRAMMER is approx 20yrs old...but
still seems to work perfectly...my question therefore is....do i need to put
both switches down to run just the central heating ?..for just the hot
water i only put 1 switch down...but someone said that to run the radiators
i had to put both switches down...even if i only wanted radiators on and NOT
hot water,we also have a BAXI gas fire with a back boiler ( if that is of
any importance)..many thanks in advance


Probably yes, if this is an older system, as it sounds like.

My current system is like that - waiting to be upgraded next year. The
HW is a gravity circuit. This means it circulates just because the HW
rises from the boiler in the pipes. There should be pump pumping water
around the heating system. My timer is such that you have to have both
the HW and CH on to get the boiler to fire

I plan on upgrading to a fully pumped system probably next year.

--
Chris French

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Posted to uk.d-i-y
Set Square
 
Posts: n/a
Default CENTRAL HEATING..BOTH SWITCHES ON OR NOT?

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
altheman alan@ford50(no spam).freeserve.co.uk wrote:

hello, this may a stupid question to some but to me it is not...i have
recently moved into another house...the current central heating
system is run with a ...RANDALL 4033 PROGRAMMER....it has 2
switches...one that controls the hot water...the other controls the
central heating ( radiators)...what i can gather the PROGRAMMER is
approx 20yrs old...but still seems to work perfectly...my question
therefore is....do i need to put both switches down to run just the
central heating ?..for just the hot water i only put 1 switch
down...but someone said that to run the radiators i had to put both
switches down...even if i only wanted radiators on and NOT hot
water,we also have a BAXI gas fire with a back boiler ( if that is of
any importance)..many thanks in advance


In the unlikely event that you have a fully pumped system - in which case
you will have one or two motorised valves and a tank stat - you will have
independent control over HW and CH and will be able to have either without
the other - or both together.

In the more likely event that you've got gravity HW and pumped CH, they are
*not* independent. You can have just HW (by running the boiler without the
pump) but you can't have just CH - because you need the pump *and* boiler
for this, and get HW thrown in whether you want it or not.

You can probably still select just CH on the programmer, and it will work -
because most programmers used on this sort of system have an internal link
which switches HW - i.e. the boiler - on even though *you* haven't switched
it on.

As others have suggested, why not suck it and see?
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.


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Posted to uk.d-i-y
chris French
 
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Default CENTRAL HEATING..BOTH SWITCHES ON OR NOT?

In message , Owain
writes
altheman wrote:
hello, this may a stupid question to some but to me it is not...i have
recently moved into another house...the current central heating system is
run with a ...RANDALL 4033 PROGRAMMER....it has 2 switches...one that
controls the hot water...the other controls the central heating (
radiators)...what i can gather the PROGRAMMER is approx 20yrs old...but
still seems to work perfectly...my question therefore is....do i need to put
both switches down to run just the central heating ?..for just the hot
water i only put 1 switch down...but someone said that to run the radiators
i had to put both switches down...even if i only wanted radiators on and NOT
hot water,we also have a BAXI gas fire with a back boiler ( if that is of
any importance)..many thanks in advance



It depends on how the system has been plumbed and wired. Usually (and
I'm not familiar with that particular programmer) if there is no
heating-only option then the switches are interlocked so if you put the
heating on the hot water switch is also moved to on.

On my programmer in the new house the switches aren't interlocked, not
sure if they were/should be/could be though.

Put the heating switch on and see what happens. If the boiler starts
firing on-and-off then the call for heat is reaching the boiler but not
running the pump, in which case either the switches should be
interlocked or the system replumbed/wired to prevent this happening.


But hat doesn't happen, the [pump just runs in heating only mode.
--
Chris French

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Posted to uk.d-i-y
Dave Plowman (News)
 
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Default CENTRAL HEATING..BOTH SWITCHES ON OR NOT?

In article ,
chris French wrote:
Put the heating switch on and see what happens. If the boiler starts
firing on-and-off then the call for heat is reaching the boiler but not
running the pump, in which case either the switches should be
interlocked or the system replumbed/wired to prevent this happening.


But hat doesn't happen, the [pump just runs in heating only mode.


Most simple programmers have the switches for both heating and water fed
via removable links. For a gravity circulation system it's usual to feed
the heating switch off the output from the hot water one so the heating
only option you have with a fully pumped one does nothing on its own.

--
*I wish the buck stopped here. I could use a few.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
  #10   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
altheman
 
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Default CENTRAL HEATING..BOTH SWITCHES ON OR NOT?

hi again,
i have now read your advice......i have now switched on "hot water"
only...and the pump fires up.....i then switched off hot water...and just
switched on central heating.....again the pump fired up.....so i am now
guessing that both switches work independantly of each other...so it is safe
to just switch on central heating on its own without having to switch on hot
water also...would that be right?....many thanks yet again in advance




  #11   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
Dave Plowman (News)
 
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Default CENTRAL HEATING..BOTH SWITCHES ON OR NOT?

In article ,
altheman alan@ford50(no spam).freeserve.co.uk wrote:
i have now read your advice......i have now switched on "hot water"
only...and the pump fires up.....i then switched off hot water...and
just switched on central heating.....again the pump fired up.....so i am
now guessing that both switches work independantly of each other...so it
is safe to just switch on central heating on its own without having to
switch on hot water also...would that be right?....many thanks yet again
in advance


If the water is heated by gravity circulation then it will be heated any
time the boiler is firing, regardless of any switch setting. Is it getting
too hot?

--
*Why is it that doctors call what they do "practice"?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Set Square
 
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Default CENTRAL HEATING..BOTH SWITCHES ON OR NOT?

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
altheman alan@ford50(no spam).freeserve.co.uk wrote:

hi again,
i have now read your advice......i have now switched on "hot water"
only...and the pump fires up.....i then switched off hot water...and
just switched on central heating.....again the pump fired up.....so i
am now guessing that both switches work independantly of each
other...so it is safe to just switch on central heating on its own
without having to switch on hot water also...would that be
right?....many thanks yet again in advance


But you haven't told us whether the *boiler* fired up. Did it? The pump on
its own will just circulate cold water - which is a complete waste of time!

If the pump runs in HW only mode, it suggests that you've got a fully pumped
system. Have you got any motorised valves anywhere - maybe in the airing
cupboard? Is there a thermostat strapped round the hot water cylinder (not
the one in an immersion heater)? How many water pipes connect to the back
boiler behind the gas fire?
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
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Posted to uk.d-i-y
altheman
 
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Default CENTRAL HEATING..BOTH SWITCHES ON OR NOT?

so then...if i switch on just central heating..it will either ..work or not
work?.....and i cannot do any damage to system..that correct?...sorry about
all this but i really have no idea .thanks yet again in advance


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Posted to uk.d-i-y
Set Square
 
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Default CENTRAL HEATING..BOTH SWITCHES ON OR NOT?

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
altheman alan@ford50(no spam).freeserve.co.uk wrote:

so then...if i switch on just central heating..it will either ..work
or not work?.....and i cannot do any damage to system..that
correct?...sorry about all this but i really have no idea .thanks
yet again in advance


You are correct in the above assumption.

Would you care to elaborate on exactly what you're trying to achieve, and on
what prompted you to ask the initial question?
--
Cheers,
Set Square
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Posted to uk.d-i-y
altheman
 
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Default CENTRAL HEATING..BOTH SWITCHES ON OR NOT?

hi again..what i am exactly trying to achieve..is the following...as it it a
new central heating system to me....i thought that in this cold weather i
would have to put on both HOT WATER & CENTRAL HEATING switches to run the
central heating...but then i thought as i had a seperate switch for both
surely i would not have to switch on HOT WATER switch to run the HEATING (
therefore saving some money as to not have to have both on at once).hope you
understand what i am explaining here.but thats the gist of it...many thanks
again




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Posted to uk.d-i-y
Set Square
 
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Default CENTRAL HEATING..BOTH SWITCHES ON OR NOT?

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Owain wrote:

Set Square wrote:
In the unlikely event that you have a fully pumped system - in which
case you will have one or two motorised valves and a tank stat - you
will have independent control over HW and CH and will be able to
have either without the other - or both together.


It's possible to be fully pumped but still not have independent
control of HW and CH.

Owain


That would be extremely foolish!
--
Cheers,
Set Square
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Set Square
 
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Default CENTRAL HEATING..BOTH SWITCHES ON OR NOT?

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
altheman alan@ford50(no spam).freeserve.co.uk wrote:

hi again..what i am exactly trying to achieve..is the following...as
it it a new central heating system to me....i thought that in this
cold weather i would have to put on both HOT WATER & CENTRAL HEATING
switches to run the central heating...but then i thought as i had a
seperate switch for both surely i would not have to switch on HOT
WATER switch to run the HEATING ( therefore saving some money as to
not have to have both on at once).hope you understand what i am
explaining here.but thats the gist of it...many thanks again


Fair enough. Assuming you have independent control - and we still don't
know, because you haven't answered the questions about motorised valves
etc. - you can certainly save money by *not* heating the hot water cylinder.
But you won't then have any hot water available at your hot taps for
washing, showering, bathing, etc.

Assuming you *need* hot water, the best way of saving money is by heating
and storing it efficiently. This means that you need a proper control system
which automatically stops heating it when it gets hot enough - and you need
a well-lagged cylinder so that the water *stays* hot after you have heated
it.

People here can advise you about the best way to control your system - but
only after you've given details of what you've actually got.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
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