Hi folks,

My latest project is to build a foot powered wood working lathe but there
are a few points that I am having trouble with design wise and I would
appreciate some advice.

I'm fairly good at working wood but I have very little experience working
metal. There is, unfortunatly for me, two bits of the lathe that I think
have to be fabricated in metal - the treadle mechanism and the head / tail
stock.

I think I can probably muddle my way through a design for the head / tail
stock (I was thinking of using a drill chuck or something similar) but the
treadle mechanism has me stumped.

The current plan was to have something like this (excuse the bad art)

--B----| |--
--B----| |--
|A|
| |
-|D|-----| |--
-|D|-----| |--
| | | |
|C|
| |
Z Z
| |
--E---------------F------
------------------F------

That's a terrible drawing sorry )

A = Crank ~5cm
B = Flywheel Axle
C = Other Crank Bit ~30cm (Sorry don't know the correct names)
D = Bearing (I hope)
E = Another Bearing
F = Treadle Plate (it's pivotted BTW)
Z = Shows this bar is much longer than A

Can you buy this sort of set up? If so where as google has let me down. If
not how would you go about producing this? I have considered butchering a
couple of bicycle pedles but that feels like a really bad solution.

Many Thanks,

Graham

--
..¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`· Shallow Sea Aquatics .¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·
..¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯ http://www.shallowsea.com ¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`

"doozer" wrote in message
newsan.2005.10.27.13.22.45.728932@crazysquirrel. removethisbit.com...
Hi folks,

My latest project is to build a foot powered wood working lathe but there
are a few points that I am having trouble with design wise and I would
appreciate some advice.

I'm fairly good at working wood but I have very little experience working
metal. There is, unfortunatly for me, two bits of the lathe that I think
have to be fabricated in metal - the treadle mechanism and the head / tail
stock.

I think I can probably muddle my way through a design for the head / tail
stock (I was thinking of using a drill chuck or something similar) but the
treadle mechanism has me stumped.

The current plan was to have something like this (excuse the bad art)

--B----| |--
--B----| |--
|A|
| |
-|D|-----| |--
-|D|-----| |--
| | | |
|C|
| |
Z Z
| |
--E---------------F------
------------------F------

That's a terrible drawing sorry )

A = Crank ~5cm
B = Flywheel Axle
C = Other Crank Bit ~30cm (Sorry don't know the correct names)
D = Bearing (I hope)
E = Another Bearing
F = Treadle Plate (it's pivotted BTW)
Z = Shows this bar is much longer than A

Can you buy this sort of set up? If so where as google has let me down. If
not how would you go about producing this? I have considered butchering a
couple of bicycle pedles but that feels like a really bad solution.

Many Thanks,

Graham

--
.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`· Shallow Sea Aquatics .¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·
.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯ http://www.shallowsea.com ¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`

===============
Have you considered using an old Singer sewing machine foot treadle? You
can usually find old sewing machine stands quite cheaply which incorporate a
foot treadle. They usually drive the machine via a round leather belt. You
might be able to cannibalise or copy.

Cic.

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 13:28:44 +0000, Cicero wrote:
Have you considered using an old Singer sewing machine foot treadle? You
can usually find old sewing machine stands quite cheaply which incorporate a
foot treadle. They usually drive the machine via a round leather belt. You
might be able to cannibalise or copy.

Cic.

Yeah, I have considered it but I'm not sure it would be up to the job. The
flywheel I am hoping to turn with it is 80cm in diameter made from three
(or more) sheets of ply. There is also the problem of expense unless
someone has one going for free...

Graham

--
..¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`· Shallow Sea Aquatics .¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·
..¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯ http://www.shallowsea.com ¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:22:51 +0100, doozer
wrote:

My latest project is to build a foot powered wood working lathe but there
are a few points that I am having trouble with design wise and I would
appreciate some advice.

Have you thought about a spring pole lathe? Far simpler to make, although
the action is intermittent. The idea might be 600 years (approx) old, (and
I think rather more) but is still sound. It takes some skill, but then any
wood-turning operation does.

http://www.historicgames.com/lathes/springpole.html

for a starter. The kilt is clearly an optional thing. Perhaps you could
find an old leaf spring ply to suit. Many years ago I and a few other
students built a crossbow with one. After we tested it and shot a bolt 3"
into a brick wall the head of craft pointedly locked it into the display
cabinet. Probably for the best, in retrospect.

I'm fairly good at working wood but I have very little experience working
metal. There is, unfortunatly for me, two bits of the lathe that I think
have to be fabricated in metal - the treadle mechanism and the head /
tail
stock.

You might have to bite the bullet and buy a morse taper centre. The other
thing that occurs is a boring old plumb-bob. I think that should be OK for
woodworking tolerances. if you include a peg on the headstock, you will
only have to use a dowel, G-cramp mole grip or similar to force the
workpiece to rotate.

John Schmitt

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:55:44 +0100, John Schmitt wrote:

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:22:51 +0100, doozer
wrote:

My latest project is to build a foot powered wood working lathe but there
are a few points that I am having trouble with design wise and I would
appreciate some advice.

Have you thought about a spring pole lathe? Far simpler to make, although
the action is intermittent. The idea might be 600 years (approx) old, (and
I think rather more) but is still sound. It takes some skill, but then any
wood-turning operation does.

http://www.historicgames.com/lathes/springpole.html

for a starter. The kilt is clearly an optional thing.

Yep, in fact the project started out as a pole lathe since it is the
simplest to build but I am not keen on the reciprocating motion (if
reciprocating applies to things that spin as well as go backwards and
forwards).

The kilt is appealing though ;o)

The closest I have found to what I intend to build is this

http://homepage.mac.com/estuary1/est...otoAlbum4.html

which is similar in most major respects. I think I can improve on the
treadle system and the tensioner in particular.

Perhaps you could
find an old leaf spring ply to suit. Many years ago I and a few other
students built a crossbow with one. After we tested it and shot a bolt 3"
into a brick wall the head of craft pointedly locked it into the display
cabinet. Probably for the best, in retrospect.

I'm fairly good at working wood but I have very little experience working
metal. There is, unfortunatly for me, two bits of the lathe that I think
have to be fabricated in metal - the treadle mechanism and the head /
tail
stock.

You might have to bite the bullet and buy a morse taper centre. The other
thing that occurs is a boring old plumb-bob. I think that should be OK for
woodworking tolerances. if you include a peg on the headstock, you will
only have to use a dowel, G-cramp mole grip or similar to force the
workpiece to rotate.

I haven't given the head and tail stock as much though as I would have
liked yet as I assumed (probably wrongly) that it wouldn't be that
difficult to put something together. A morse taper may be the way forward
though.

Graham

--
..¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`· Shallow Sea Aquatics .¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·
..¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯ http://www.shallowsea.com ¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`

John Schmitt wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:22:51 +0100, doozer
wrote:

My latest project is to build a foot powered wood working lathe but there
are a few points that I am having trouble with design wise and I would
appreciate some advice.

Have you thought about a spring pole lathe? Far simpler to make, although
the action is intermittent.

Doesn't have to be intermittent if you incorporate a flywheel. Bike
transmission could be good - you'd have a freewheel and gears for
different diameter turnings

cheers

Jacob

wrote in message
ups.com...

John Schmitt wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:22:51 +0100, doozer
wrote:

My latest project is to build a foot powered wood working lathe but
there
are a few points that I am having trouble with design wise and I would
appreciate some advice.

Have you thought about a spring pole lathe? Far simpler to make, although
the action is intermittent.

Doesn't have to be intermittent if you incorporate a flywheel. Bike
transmission could be good - you'd have a freewheel and gears for
different diameter turnings

If you can find it, the US magazine "Fine Woodworkig" had a design some
years ago that used a bicycle chain from the treadle to drive a bicycle
sprocket and gearbox coupled to the flywheel. The freewheel allows the
treadle to return on the upstroke while the flywheel (and the work) carries
on forward.

In article pan.2005.10.27.13.40.24.12656
@crazysquirrel.removethisbit.com,
says...
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 13:28:44 +0000, Cicero wrote:
Have you considered using an old Singer sewing machine foot treadle? You
can usually find old sewing machine stands quite cheaply which incorporate a
foot treadle. They usually drive the machine via a round leather belt. You
might be able to cannibalise or copy.

Cic.

Yeah, I have considered it but I'm not sure it would be up to the job. The
flywheel I am hoping to turn with it is 80cm in diameter made from three
(or more) sheets of ply.

Flywheel on a Singer treadle is only 30cm, there's not much room to
expand it width-wise and none at all to increase the diameter, but you
might be able to fix some lead or steel plate to the sides. You'd still
have the problem that it drives from the outer rim, so is good for speed
but not for torque.

There is also the problem of expense unless
someone has one going for free...

Often available on eBay for a few quid if you can find one local to you.

In article ,
says...

wrote in message
ups.com...

John Schmitt wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:22:51 +0100, doozer
wrote:

My latest project is to build a foot powered wood working lathe but
there
are a few points that I am having trouble with design wise and I would
appreciate some advice.

Have you thought about a spring pole lathe? Far simpler to make, although
the action is intermittent.

Doesn't have to be intermittent if you incorporate a flywheel. Bike
transmission could be good - you'd have a freewheel and gears for
different diameter turnings

If you can find it, the US magazine "Fine Woodworkig" had a design some
years ago that used a bicycle chain from the treadle to drive a bicycle
sprocket and gearbox coupled to the flywheel. The freewheel allows the
treadle to return on the upstroke while the flywheel (and the work) carries
on forward.

Why not just use the back half of a bike? Attach a pivoted footplate to
the crank, and weight the wheel (lead pipe might be good for this - wrap
it around the rim and secure with wire or zip ties) to make a flywheel.
A 5-speed freewheel could be welded solid, one chain to the crank and
another to the lathe spindle.

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:15:31 +0100, Norman Billingham wrote:


wrote in message
ups.com...

John Schmitt wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:22:51 +0100, doozer
wrote:

My latest project is to build a foot powered wood working lathe but
there
are a few points that I am having trouble with design wise and I would
appreciate some advice.

Have you thought about a spring pole lathe? Far simpler to make, although
the action is intermittent.

Doesn't have to be intermittent if you incorporate a flywheel. Bike
transmission could be good - you'd have a freewheel and gears for
different diameter turnings

If you can find it, the US magazine "Fine Woodworkig" had a design some
years ago that used a bicycle chain from the treadle to drive a bicycle
sprocket and gearbox coupled to the flywheel. The freewheel allows the
treadle to return on the upstroke while the flywheel (and the work) carries
on forward.

Now that is a good, no great, idea. I had thought about using a bike
transmission because I liked the thought that I could have various power
settings but I dismissed the idea because it would mean a) sitting down
and pedaling while working and b) I couldn't see a way to move the pedals
so that I could work on large objects. With a chain attached front and
back to the tredle board looped over a freewheel it's problem solved. As
you suggest I could even have a Derailer system in there for variable
power. In fact thinking about it I might as well just fit a whole bike
transmission system to the treadle board.

Thanks for that. If you have any more thoughts on this idea I would like
to hear them

Graham

--
..¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`· Shallow Sea Aquatics .¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·
..¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯ http://www.shallowsea.com ¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`

doozer presented the following explanation :
Yeah, I have considered it but I'm not sure it would be up to the job. The
flywheel I am hoping to turn with it is 80cm in diameter made from three
(or more) sheets of ply. There is also the problem of expense unless
someone has one going for free...

That might work as a drive, but not as a flywheel. To provide the
flywheel action it needs weight, enough weight to keep it going once
started until your next push on the treadle.

I have seen wood turning lathes where the method of drive is a bow of
springy wood above, down to a rope around the wood being turned, then
down to a foot treadle.

You pull the bow down to tension it, loop around your wood onto the
hinged treadle. Put weight on the treadle with your foot and the wood
turns, release and it rewinds due to the tension of the bow.

If your are going along the flywheel route, then you might find parts
from a car scrap yard of some use. Brake disks for flywheel including
bearings, then two flat bits of of steel to form a crank bolted or even
better welded onto the disks.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

doozer wrote:
My latest project is to build a foot powered wood working lathe but
there are a few points that I am having trouble with design wise and
I would appreciate some advice.

From :-

http://p081.ezboard.com/fpaleoplanet...cID=15.topi c

There is a publication on this topic, with plans, "How to Make a
Treadle-Operated Wood-Turning Lathe" by Bob Ingham, illustrated by Paul
Smith - Intermediate Technologies Publications, copyright 1986. Based in
the U.K. the ISBN is 0946688168

As the title suggests, it is for a treadle lathe, but it uses bicycle
parts and I suspect you could adapt the design easily enough. The text
DOES assume you will weld the parts together. I should think bolts could
be substituted in some cases if that is not an option for you.

That said, Roy Underhill wrote an article in Popular Woodworking (Oct
2000) entitled "Lathe from a Loft" - about making a treadle lathe from
cast off 2x lumber some students at the Institution of Higher Learning
his daughter was attending through out. He has a video on the topic as
well.

You have probably looked at this before but :-
http://www.inthewoodshop.org/methods/trlathe.shtml#1
--
This post contains no hidden meanings, no implications and certainly no
hidden agendas so it should be taken at face value. The wrong words
may be used this is due to my limitations with the English language .

doozer wrote:
Hi folks,

My latest project is to build a foot powered wood working lathe but there
are a few points that I am having trouble with design wise and I would
appreciate some advice.

I'm fairly good at working wood but I have very little experience working
metal. There is, unfortunatly for me, two bits of the lathe that I think
have to be fabricated in metal - the treadle mechanism and the head / tail
stock.

I think I can probably muddle my way through a design for the head / tail
stock (I was thinking of using a drill chuck or something similar) but the
treadle mechanism has me stumped.

The current plan was to have something like this (excuse the bad art)

--B----| |--
--B----| |--
|A|
| |
-|D|-----| |--
-|D|-----| |--
| | | |
|C|
| |
Z Z
| |
--E---------------F------
------------------F------

That's a terrible drawing sorry )

A = Crank ~5cm
B = Flywheel Axle
C = Other Crank Bit ~30cm (Sorry don't know the correct names)
D = Bearing (I hope)
E = Another Bearing
F = Treadle Plate (it's pivotted BTW)
Z = Shows this bar is much longer than A

Can you buy this sort of set up? If so where as google has let me down. If
not how would you go about producing this? I have considered butchering a
couple of bicycle pedles but that feels like a really bad solution.

Many Thanks,

Graham


one last suggestion:
any (dead or unpowered) motor or (LP) turntable would do as a
tailstock. Just file a point on the shaft/spindle.

A tail stock with more grip could be made a bit like gripper rod: lots
of very short pointy bits for multiple gripping. Just knock the
tailstock into the workpiece.

Its hard to know exactly what you want. I've used a wood lathe but
there's so much scope for variation. Pole lathe, drill, all the way
upto something more like an industrial metal lathe. Even cutting tools
bring more options. And of course what you plan to make will determine
best choice of head & tail.

One question: why manual power rather than drill?


NT

one last suggestion:
any (dead or unpowered) motor or (LP) turntable would do as a
tailstock. Just file a point on the shaft/spindle.

A tail stock with more grip could be made a bit like gripper rod: lots
of very short pointy bits for multiple gripping. Just knock the
tailstock into the workpiece.

Its hard to know exactly what you want. I've used a wood lathe but
there's so much scope for variation. Pole lathe, drill, all the way
upto something more like an industrial metal lathe. Even cutting tools
bring more options. And of course what you plan to make will determine
best choice of head & tail.

One question: why manual power rather than drill?


Numerous reasons really. Partially to see if I can build it, partially to
get fit. I find it appealing to think that I will be able to turn out a
great looking piece of wood on a machine I built. I intend to document
building it and stick it on-line. If people are interested I will post the
address when I'm finished.

What I am hoping is that I can build it in such a way that I will be able
to fit it with a motor (an old washing machine motor probably) at a later
date. Then, when I get fed up pushing the treadle I can still keep working.

I like the tail stock idea. I'll keep that in mind. I have been thinking
about it and I might try and use a head and tail stock from an old
electric lathe (assuming I can find one that I can make fit). The
advantage of doing that, I think, is that I will be able to use standard
equipment in the lathe.

Graham


NT

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..¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`· Shallow Sea Aquatics .¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·
..¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯ http://www.shallowsea.com ¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 21:06:41 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

doozer presented the following explanation :
Yeah, I have considered it but I'm not sure it would be up to the job. The
flywheel I am hoping to turn with it is 80cm in diameter made from three
(or more) sheets of ply. There is also the problem of expense unless
someone has one going for free...

That might work as a drive, but not as a flywheel. To provide the
flywheel action it needs weight, enough weight to keep it going once
started until your next push on the treadle.

I have seen wood turning lathes where the method of drive is a bow of
springy wood above, down to a rope around the wood being turned, then
down to a foot treadle.

You pull the bow down to tension it, loop around your wood onto the
hinged treadle. Put weight on the treadle with your foot and the wood
turns, release and it rewinds due to the tension of the bow.

If your are going along the flywheel route, then you might find parts
from a car scrap yard of some use. Brake disks for flywheel including
bearings, then two flat bits of of steel to form a crank bolted or even
better welded onto the disks.

What you describe is a variation on a pole lathe and has the problem of
reciprocating motion (some people like it but I find it distracting).
Having read about numerous other flywheel lathes built to similar designs
I am confident that the flywheel will be sufficient. If it isn't I will
add more weight by drilling holes near the rim and packing them with lead.

The amount of energy stored in a flywheel increases linearly with weight
but exponetially (^2) with angular velocity. It is therefore much better
to get it spinning fast than to make it heavy.

As for the crank - I have decided to go with a bike transmission and use
the free wheeling mechanism. I think that should work and cuts down the
amount I need to fabricate myself.

Thanks for the ideas,

Graham.

--
..¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`· Shallow Sea Aquatics .¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·
..¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯ http://www.shallowsea.com ¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:46:19 +0100, doozer
wrote:

Yep, in fact the project started out as a pole lathe since it is the
simplest to build but I am not keen on the reciprocating motion (if
reciprocating applies to things that spin as well as go backwards and
forwards).

That is the case. However I have seen footage of one in action and it
seems with a little practise, step down/tool in, step up/tool out becomes
almost automatic.

which is similar in most major respects. I think I can improve on the
treadle system and the tensioner in particular.

For simplicity a dead-weight tensioner might be the answer.

I haven't given the head and tail stock as much though as I would have
liked yet as I assumed (probably wrongly) that it wouldn't be that
difficult to put something together. A morse taper may be the way forward
though.

Tilgear do not appear to have a webpage, but they have all sorts of
goodies in the tooling line.

John Schmitt

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

doozer wrote:
The amount of energy stored in a flywheel increases linearly with weight
but exponetially (^2) with angular velocity.

Nit: You mean "quadratically", not "exponetially".

It is therefore much better
to get it spinning fast than to make it heavy.

.... but this is still true :-)

On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 10:05:22 +0100, Martin Bonner
wrote:

The amount of energy stored in a flywheel increases linearly with weight
but exponetially (^2) with angular velocity.

Nit: You mean "quadratically", not "exponetially".

It is therefore much better
to get it spinning fast than to make it heavy.

... but this is still true :-)

Of course subsidiary nit: Mass not weight. In fact, it is all down to the
angular moment of inertia. If the flywheel is ply, perhaps nailing a roll
of lead flashing around the periphery will give sufficient staying power.
the further from the axis of rotation the mass is concentrated, the
better. The flywheel may require a push to start treadle operation, but
that should not present a problem on such a bare-bones machine.

John Schmitt

--
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On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:46:19 +0100, doozer
wrote:

Yep, in fact the project started out as a pole lathe since it is the
simplest to build but I am not keen on the reciprocating motion

Pole and treadle lathes are both crap. They're demanding of tools,
timber and skill to use. Great fun, but they're a bad place to learn to
turn, they can't produce at speed and they really limit you to spindle
turning in green timber.

So I only bother with a pole lathe, _because_ of the intermitent action.
If I'm doing this at all, I'm either doing something in a tent ful of
hippies, or I'm doing repro where I want the characteristic finish of a
reciprocating action. If I'm actually trying to get something _done_,
then it's an electric lathe with a variable speed on the fly. I wouldn't
bother with a treadle lathe for anythign bigger than pen or bobbin
turning,

I'd love to have a go with a Great Wheel lathe (an apprentice cranks the
handle)

On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 22:38:30 +0000, Andy Dingley wrote:

I'd love to have a go with a Great Wheel lathe (an apprentice cranks the
handle)

Could be fun -- at that end.

I know someone who did the cranking as an apprentice wheelwright. "Fifteen
minutes is about the limit!", and he was a fit teenager at the time. This was
turning wheel hubs for farm wagons, though, not a dainty turning by any stretch.
And they would occasionally snag and jump out at one.

Thomas Prufer

On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 07:59:19 +0100, Thomas Prufer
wrote:

This was
turning wheel hubs for farm wagons, though, not a dainty turning by any stretch.

Elm presumably, which is tough going to turn however you do it.