Our boiler is getting on a bit and I'm considering having it replaced.
We don't have many options for locating it - basically it will have to
remain in the same position, which is wall-mounted in the kitchen. The
current boiler is between two wall-mounted cupboards (the type that are
taller than usual), and is itself behind a door that matches the
cupboards to either side. In other words, the boiler is hidden and the
effect is a line of three cupboards.

Now as I understand it there are a couple of problems with this.
First: strictly speaking there is currently insufficient clearance
between the front of the boiler and the door. Second: I believe it
used to be possible to buy shallower boilers that would solve the
clearance problem, but now new boiler installations have to be
condensing types (is this correct?) and these tend to be deeper.

I can think of a few options:

- don't try to hide the boiler. This will look a bit naff as there is
coving along the top and bottom of the cupboards, the bottom one hiding
a fluorescent light fitting that goes the full length.

- remount the cupboards so that they are not directly against the back
wall and are brought forward a few cm as needed. The run of cupboards
does not go along the whole length of wall so this will require some
kind of side panel to hide the gap at the visible side. Similarly the
coving is mitred to turn round this corner, into the wall, so I'll
probably have to replace the whole lot.

- get some deeper wall cupboards and replace the current cupboards, but
keeping the doors. This sounds like the best option: if I am going to
have to faff around anyway, we might as well get a bit of useful extra
storage out of it. I'll still have to do the coving as in the last
option. The main problem I see here is that I'm not sure it is even
possible to get deeper wall cupboards. All I have seen are in standard
300mm depth. I would also need the taller type that we have now.

Any thoughts on this? Other ideas, or a source for the deeper
cupboards? Or maybe it is possible to get a shallower boiler after all?


Thanks in advance,

--
Ian

wrote:
Our boiler is getting on a bit and I'm considering having it replaced.
We don't have many options for locating it - basically it will have to
remain in the same position, which is wall-mounted in the kitchen.
[snip]

Any preference why it has to remain in the kitchen?

No place upstairs it can be sited i.e bathroom,landing bearing in mind a
cabinet can hide it.
--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:10:13 -0700, ian_news66 wrote:

Our boiler is getting on a bit and I'm considering having it replaced.
We don't have many options for locating it - basically it will have to
remain in the same position, which is wall-mounted in the kitchen. The
current boiler is between two wall-mounted cupboards (the type that are
taller than usual), and is itself behind a door that matches the
cupboards to either side. In other words, the boiler is hidden and the
effect is a line of three cupboards.

Now as I understand it there are a couple of problems with this.
First: strictly speaking there is currently insufficient clearance
between the front of the boiler and the door. Second: I believe it
used to be possible to buy shallower boilers that would solve the
clearance problem, but now new boiler installations have to be
condensing types (is this correct?) and these tend to be deeper.

I can think of a few options:

- don't try to hide the boiler. This will look a bit naff as there is
coving along the top and bottom of the cupboards, the bottom one hiding
a fluorescent light fitting that goes the full length.

- remount the cupboards so that they are not directly against the back
wall and are brought forward a few cm as needed. The run of cupboards
does not go along the whole length of wall so this will require some
kind of side panel to hide the gap at the visible side. Similarly the
coving is mitred to turn round this corner, into the wall, so I'll
probably have to replace the whole lot.

- get some deeper wall cupboards and replace the current cupboards, but
keeping the doors. This sounds like the best option: if I am going to
have to faff around anyway, we might as well get a bit of useful extra
storage out of it. I'll still have to do the coving as in the last
option. The main problem I see here is that I'm not sure it is even
possible to get deeper wall cupboards. All I have seen are in standard
300mm depth. I would also need the taller type that we have now.

Any thoughts on this? Other ideas, or a source for the deeper
cupboards? Or maybe it is possible to get a shallower boiler after all?


Thanks in advance,

Choose a boiler that fits the cupboards and allows the required clearances
which may be as little as 5mm.

Start with something like discountheating.co.uk (?) and follow the links
to the manufacturers who will give the specifications.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

wrote:

First: strictly speaking there is currently insufficient clearance
between the front of the boiler and the door.

Depends on the boiler specifications, but the gap can often be
surprisingly small with modern boilers.

Second: I believe it
used to be possible to buy shallower boilers that would solve the
clearance problem, but now new boiler installations have to be
condensing types (is this correct?) and these tend to be deeper.

Yes condensing boilers are now required except in exceptional
circumstances (basically only when they are impossible to install for
some reason). They are usually (always?) deeper than the comparable
non-condensing model; there may be some around which fit behind standard
cupboard doors?

- get some deeper wall cupboards and replace the current cupboards, but
keeping the doors. This sounds like the best option: if I am going to
have to faff around anyway, we might as well get a bit of useful extra
storage out of it. I'll still have to do the coving as in the last
option. The main problem I see here is that I'm not sure it is even
possible to get deeper wall cupboards. All I have seen are in standard
300mm depth. I would also need the taller type that we have now.

You could always go for a tower/larder unit - they are typically 600mm
deep, ie full worktop width. Don't know if that would work with your
kitchen though.

David

wrote:

between the front of the boiler and the door. Second: I believe it
used to be possible to buy shallower boilers that would solve the
clearance problem, but now new boiler installations have to be
condensing types (is this correct?) and these tend to be deeper.

If it is any help, my condensing boiler (Ideal Isar) is shallower than a
standard wall unit and only requires clearance of 5mm to each side. I am
sure there are others that should fit as well.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

wrote in message
ups.com...
Our boiler is getting on a bit and I'm considering having it replaced.
We don't have many options for locating it - basically it will have to
remain in the same position, which is wall-mounted in the kitchen. The
current boiler is between two wall-mounted cupboards (the type that are
taller than usual), and is itself behind a door that matches the
cupboards to either side. In other words, the boiler is hidden and the
effect is a line of three cupboards.

Now as I understand it there are a couple of problems with this.
First: strictly speaking there is currently insufficient clearance
between the front of the boiler and the door. Second: I believe it
used to be possible to buy shallower boilers that would solve the
clearance problem, but now new boiler installations have to be
condensing types (is this correct?) and these tend to be deeper.

I can think of a few options:

- don't try to hide the boiler. This will look a bit naff as there is
coving along the top and bottom of the cupboards, the bottom one hiding
a fluorescent light fitting that goes the full length.

- remount the cupboards so that they are not directly against the back
wall and are brought forward a few cm as needed. The run of cupboards
does not go along the whole length of wall so this will require some
kind of side panel to hide the gap at the visible side. Similarly the
coving is mitred to turn round this corner, into the wall, so I'll
probably have to replace the whole lot.

- get some deeper wall cupboards and replace the current cupboards, but
keeping the doors. This sounds like the best option: if I am going to
have to faff around anyway, we might as well get a bit of useful extra
storage out of it. I'll still have to do the coving as in the last
option. The main problem I see here is that I'm not sure it is even
possible to get deeper wall cupboards. All I have seen are in standard
300mm depth. I would also need the taller type that we have now.

Any thoughts on this? Other ideas, or a source for the deeper
cupboards? Or maybe it is possible to get a shallower boiler after all?


Thanks in advance,

--
Ian


I have an Ideal Isar condensing combi which can be cupboard mounted

Now as I understand it there are a couple of problems with this.
First: strictly speaking there is currently insufficient clearance
between the front of the boiler and the door.

Usually with modern condensing boilers, the required front clearance is for
maintenance access and can be zero when it is a door. Check the installation
instructions.

Any thoughts on this? Other ideas, or a source for the deeper
cupboards? Or maybe it is possible to get a shallower boiler after all?

How deep are the cupboards?

Christian.

I have an Ideal Isar condensing combi which can be cupboard mounted

Yes, they are 278mm deep. The non-combi model is called the Icos if a
system/heating boiler is required.

Christian.

You could always go for a tower/larder unit - they are typically 600mm
deep, ie full worktop width. Don't know if that would work with your
kitchen though.

Thanks for the suggestion but the boiler is in the middle of the wall,
so there is a cupboard either side and worktop below.

Ian

Choose a boiler that fits the cupboards and allows the required clearances
which may be as little as 5mm.

I had been led to believe that condensing boilers that shallow don't
exist by the chap who last serviced the current boiler, hence my
questions. However, it seems from some other replies in this thread
that suitable models might exist.

Thanks,

Ian

Christian McArdle wrote:
I have an Ideal Isar condensing combi which can be cupboard mounted

Yes, they are 278mm deep. The non-combi model is called the Icos if a
system/heating boiler is required.


I was going to say that I wasn't sure a combi would be suitable but
you've addressed that one, thanks!

The reason I would hesitate about a combi that it needs to supply
heating/water for a moderately sized 3 bed semi and I'm not sure a
combi would be up to that. Or would it? I'd be happy to be corrected -
I used to own a flat with a Vaillant combi and it was great not having
to worry about whether there was enough hot water in the tank. The
only downside was the flow rate for filling a bath etc, but I got used
to it. The other reason I don't know whether a combi would be suitable
is that the current system is a vented one; I worry that turning it
into a pressurised system might cause leaks to spring all over the
place! Also I remeber reading that it's not possible to put inhibitor
in a pressurised system. We are in a hard water area so that would be
a concern.

--
Ian

How deep are the cupboards?

They are standard 300mm depth.

Any preference why it has to remain in the kitchen?

No place upstairs it can be sited i.e bathroom,landing bearing in mind a
cabinet can hide it.


There is nowhere suitable on the landing and the bathroom is quite
small. There is an airing cupboard in the bathroom so I suppose one
option would be to install a combi there and get rid of the tank. I'm
not sure about the suitability of a combi though, as I've mentioned in
another reply. Also my hope is that it will be possible to get away
with not too much disruption to existing pipework etc if the boiler is
installed in a similar position to the current one.

--
Ian

wrote:

How deep are the cupboards?


They are standard 300mm depth.

A small system boiler like the Icos should fit nicely then. Some change
to the pipework except for converting to a sealed system (see Ed's FAQ
for details on that).

You could take the opportunity to upgrade the cylinder to a fast
recovery one. That should eliminate any worries about lack of hot water
since the boiler should be able to reheat it in less time than it takes
to have a shower or bath.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

The other reason I don't know whether a combi would be suitable
is that the current system is a vented one; I worry that turning it
into a pressurised system might cause leaks to spring all over the
place! Also I remeber reading that it's not possible to put inhibitor

Quite frankly, if it does spring leaks when it goes pressurised, then the
system is about to leak anyway. Indeed, the fact that (a) a plumber is
already on site when it does so and (b) is specifically testing for leaks
(even hidden ones), means that the damage is likely to be less than if you
leave it vented.

So even if you go non-combi, I would strongly recommend going pressurised
anyway. There are loads of other advantages, too.

Christian.