Rick

On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 16:52:50 GMT, Rick wrote:

Rick

ARe B&Q in *that* much financial trouble?

sponix

On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:39:51 +0100, --s-p-o-n-i-x--
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 16:52:50 GMT, Rick wrote:

Rick

ARe B&Q in *that* much financial trouble?

sponix


They have simply restructured their retail capacity to match changed
market conditions. This is a responsible thing to do to protect the
business in the longer term.


--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Hi All

Just noticed that B&Q Performance Power range of power tools has changed
colour to grey/white and Screwfix have started selling Titan, which look
suspiciously like Performance Pro in blue/yellow.

What is going on here?

No wonder they are having problems!

Dave

On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 00:09:55 GMT, "david lang"
wrote:

Hi All

Just noticed that B&Q Performance Power range of power tools has changed
colour to grey/white and Screwfix have started selling Titan, which look
suspiciously like Performance Pro in blue/yellow.

What is going on here?

No wonder they are having problems!


B&Q and Screwfix are volume warehousing operations. That's it. The
business model is based on cost, volume and margin. A relatively
fixed cost is the space used to store and retail the goods. This is
why B&Q has most low value goods stacked in high racks and only those
that have to be layed out further to sell at all and higher
value/margin items are spread out. Key measured parameters are the
turnover and margin per square metre and the number of turns per year
of stock. If the space can produce a higher rate of return by
renting it out to other complementary businesses then it is a
consideration.

The so-called Performance Power, Titan etc. "brands" are simply
shells. There is no long term commitment to a given product or even
style and no proper backup provided.

Volume operations like SF and B&Q don't want to deal with these
issues. The equation is that they agree to a certain volume with a
Chinese factory and if the volume/price equation is there, agree the
colours and the label for a period of time or volume. The so-called
warranties are carefully calculated as a marketing exercise on the
basis that if the tool is cheap enough, people won't bother to return
it or will throw it away and buy another. There will be certain
return rates which are factored into the cost of the line and may even
be pushed back to the manufacturer.

The reality is that these are all cheap generic Chinese products in a
given colour and packaging. They will continue to come and go.

There is no problem with this as long as people understand that this
is what they are getting. However, too often I have seen people in
the returns area of B&Q trying to get spares for one of these products
or to get something done after the warranty. Of course it's non
existent, but for some reason people seem to think that they can
expect the same type and level of product cover that they would have
had if they had bought Bosch, Makita, etc.

IMO, that is not an acceptable way of marketing. The customer has
been given the impression from the warranty that there really is a
proper brand with all the backup. The reality is that there is a
veneer.

So if the Kingfisher group changes things around and the same product
appears in a different colour from another outlet, this is not an
indicator of having problems, but simply a natural outcome of this
type of product and how it is marketed. No surprises at all.




--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Andy Hall wrote:
snip

There is no problem with this as long as people understand that this
is what they are getting.

True.

However, too often I have seen people in
the returns area of B&Q trying to get spares for one of these products
or to get something done after the warranty. Of course it's non
existent, but for some reason people seem to think that they can
expect the same type and level of product cover that they would have
had if they had bought Bosch, Makita, etc.

Lets be fair, not entirely "non-existent".

Perfomance Pro Helpline is on 0845 300 2577.

As mentioned in an earlier thread, they offered to get parts for me...

I have no affilation with Kingfisher or subs.

snip

On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 08:22:59 +0100, AlexW
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
snip

There is no problem with this as long as people understand that this
is what they are getting.

True.

However, too often I have seen people in
the returns area of B&Q trying to get spares for one of these products
or to get something done after the warranty. Of course it's non
existent, but for some reason people seem to think that they can
expect the same type and level of product cover that they would have
had if they had bought Bosch, Makita, etc.

Lets be fair, not entirely "non-existent".

Perfomance Pro Helpline is on 0845 300 2577.

As mentioned in an earlier thread, they offered to get parts for me...

This is better than nothing, but somehow I doubt if it would be
comprehensive across the range or lasting for a long period.



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Andy Hall wrote:
On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 08:22:59 +0100, AlexW
wrote:


Andy Hall wrote:
snip

There is no problem with this as long as people understand that this
is what they are getting.

True.


However, too often I have seen people in
the returns area of B&Q trying to get spares for one of these products
or to get something done after the warranty. Of course it's non
existent, but for some reason people seem to think that they can
expect the same type and level of product cover that they would have
had if they had bought Bosch, Makita, etc.

Lets be fair, not entirely "non-existent".

Perfomance Pro Helpline is on 0845 300 2577.

As mentioned in an earlier thread, they offered to get parts for me...


This is better than nothing, but somehow I doubt if it would be
comprehensive across the range or lasting for a long period.




No, I would not expect to be able to source parts many years down the
line. And my experience was for a SCMS which was relatively expensive at
£130 for them.

Alex

--s-p-o-n-i-x-- wrote:
On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 16:52:50 GMT, Rick wrote:

Rick

ARe B&Q in *that* much financial trouble?

sponix

See
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/mai...16/ixcity.html

They're going the same way as Homebase "Out go hundreds of lines of
nuts and bolts, in come DVD players and television sets."

Although they try to deny it "When asked whether the move was merely
copying Homebase, which is owned by GUS, he said: "Our proposition will
be very different from Homebase... but if we stay in the same market it
is unclear why we would ever increase sales"

MBQ

wrote:
They're going the same way as Homebase "Out go hundreds of lines of
nuts and bolts, in come DVD players and television sets."

Although they try to deny it "When asked whether the move was merely
copying Homebase, which is owned by GUS, he said: "Our proposition will
be very different from Homebase... but if we stay in the same market it
is unclear why we would ever increase sales"


The point which I notice is that the B & Q stores have lost any
semblance of order or cleanliness. I guess the staff have become
demoralised. Also, the stock is virtually identical to
Homebase/Focus/Wickes, it is what I understand as "Sheep Syndrome"
(copyright CSLtd), ie all stores have the same suppliers and stock. This
is certain death to any business. The success of Texas Homecare 20+
years ago was their willingness to take risks with the products that
they were offering. B & Q have lost this ability. They are well behind
Homebase, in say stocking a complete steam shower cubicle and their
brassware selection is utterly unimaginative. ( Even Lidl can outsell
them!!) Their general product range condemns them to low profit margins
and "poor" customers. MFI have at least recognised that there are
profits in stocking Neff, Miele and Fisher & Paykel products.

B & Q are also uncompetitive on simple products such as replacement
lampshades and "Chinese" tools. They are just not in touch with the
market and rely on customer ignorance to get away with ridiculously high
prices for many cheap products. Competitors such as "Pound shops",
"Wilkinsons" or "Range" are running rings around them in terms of
persuading the customers to part with their money!! To quote the old
maxim, " 2.5% of something is worth a lot more than 50% of nothing."
Even the pensioners have given up spending their money there on a
Wednesday!!

They should send their buyers to look at say "Menards" in the USA to
find a few new diy products which would attract some customers.

Regards
Capitol

On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 22:18:05 +0100, Capitol
wrote:



They should send their buyers to look at say "Menards" in the USA to
find a few new diy products which would attract some customers.


I tend to agree. It is surprising, because they did a slavish job of
copying Home Depot almost to the finest detail including logo, colours
and concepts.

With this latest chosen change, it will be interesting to see if they
clean up their act.


The borg has split out "fashionable" products for the home into an
operation called Expo Design Center. www.expo.com. These stores
are typically next to HD stores but separate.



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Capitol wrote:
|| The point which I notice is that the B & Q stores have lost any
|| semblance of order or cleanliness. I guess the staff have become
|| demoralised.

I'd agree with that, but it varies. I live on the edge of Strood, Kent, so
I'm about equidistant between a B&Q in Strood, a Wickes in Chatham and the
same two stores in Gravesend.

The difference is incredible, both the Gravesend stores are cleaner, tidier
and have much more of what you want in stock. Staff are more helpful &
knowledgeable - different world. Must be the managers.

|| Also, the stock is virtually identical to
|| Homebase/Focus/Wickes, it is what I understand as "Sheep Syndrome"
|| (copyright CSLtd), ie all stores have the same suppliers and stock.

I'd defend Wickes, they are more heavyside than B&Q or Homebase, not to
mention cheaper on most stuff.

Homebase is turning into a toyshop, not a DIY store. Only saving grace is
the panel cutting service. Focus is cramped, dirty and the staff have an
attitude problem round here.

|| B & Q are also uncompetitive on simple products such as replacement
|| lampshades and "Chinese" tools. They are just not in touch with the
|| market and rely on customer ignorance to get away with ridiculously
|| high prices for many cheap products.

No doubt about that, local plumbing shop regularly kicks B&Q's ass on price.


Dave

Well, our local B&Q here in Lincoln is having a hard time by the look of it.
Their plumbing/heating range has been 50% missing for 3 months and when I
enquired as to why there was virtually no stock of toilet valves/parts I was
told that their supplier had gone bust. Sounded like a tall story to me.
The one thing that jumps out at me every time I go in there is a lack of
customers. Midweek, you're lucky if there are three (of 14) checkouts
going. The demoralised attitude of the staff - and the frequency of staff
turnover - is there for all to see. How they pull it round is anyone's
guess. I would imagine the sales of the big ticket items has gone seriously
tits up and they won't make money selling packets of woodscrews. I was in
there a couple of days ago on a Thursday late morning and the car park was
10% full. Desperation hangs heavy in the air.

One of the things that grates with me is that I have been going there three
times a week on average for small plumbing bitrs - mostly toilet but a
number of showers/trays/low level toilet suites - and there is no regular
customer recognition. The staff are not trained or geared for it. They're
not there long enough anyway. When is someone at high level going to
recognise that to pull themselves out of the deep deep mire that they are
in, they are going to have to hire - and pay for - better quality staff who
dig in and who will stay longer than 3 months. They have built a business
on nothing other than perceived price with poor staff and now they are
reaping what they've sown. It is not enough to post a greeter at the door
with a rictus grin trying to shove a leaflet at you and hoping they'll ride
this out. They have lost sight of their core business and now the internet
operations are hovering like vultures. 22 closures and undoubtedly more to
come. A good example of greed once again. The size of the stores tells you
that.

I hope screwfix don't go down with them.

"wounded horse" wrote in message
...
Well, our local B&Q here in Lincoln is having a hard time by the
look of it.
Their plumbing/heating range has been 50% missing for 3 months and
when I
enquired as to why there was virtually no stock of toilet
valves/parts I was
told that their supplier had gone bust. Sounded like a tall story
to me.
The one thing that jumps out at me every time I go in there is a
lack of
customers. Midweek, you're lucky if there are three (of 14)
checkouts
going. The demoralised attitude of the staff - and the frequency
of staff
turnover - is there for all to see. How they pull it round is
anyone's
guess. I would imagine the sales of the big ticket items has gone
seriously
tits up and they won't make money selling packets of woodscrews. I
was in
there a couple of days ago on a Thursday late morning and the car
park was
10% full. Desperation hangs heavy in the air.

One of the things that grates with me is that I have been going
there three
times a week on average for small plumbing bitrs - mostly toilet
but a
number of showers/trays/low level toilet suites - and there is no
regular
customer recognition. The staff are not trained or geared for it.
They're
not there long enough anyway. When is someone at high level going
to
recognise that to pull themselves out of the deep deep mire that
they are
in, they are going to have to hire - and pay for - better quality
staff who
dig in and who will stay longer than 3 months.

The way they recruit staff doesn't help, all they seem to want is
someone who can jump when told to whilst being able to read a string
of numbers, knowing the actual difference between a set bolt and a
coach bolt (or what ever) doesn't come into the equation....

They have built a business
on nothing other than perceived price with poor staff and now they
are
reaping what they've sown. It is not enough to post a greeter at
the door
with a rictus grin trying to shove a leaflet at you and hoping
they'll ride
this out.

The problem is often made worse by, when actually finding something
in stock, not being able to get through the check outs in a
reasonable time - I've lost count of the times that either myself or
some other customer has chucked the goods onto a staff-less counter
and walked out, having waited for service whilst members of staff
chat with each other in the aisles... This at a store that does seem
to have full shelves and 'motivated, and some long standing, staff.

They have lost sight of their core business and now the internet
operations are hovering like vultures. 22 closures and undoubtedly
more to
come. A good example of greed once again. The size of the stores
tells you
that.

I hope screwfix don't go down with them.


Unless they recover quickly, or close / dispose of B&Q, I suspect all
the companies within the Kingfisher group will suffer - if not
Kingfisher it's self, this sort of problem have dragged other groups
down before, and I'm sure we haven't seen the last of such collapses
either...

wounded horse wrote:
|| Their plumbing/heating range has been 50% missing for 3
|| months and when I enquired as to why there was virtually no stock of
|| toilet valves/parts I was told that their supplier had gone bust.

My local B&Q has been out of plastic carrier bags for the last three weeks
:-)

Supplier blamed again!

Dave

david lang wrote:
Homebase is turning into a toyshop, not a DIY store. Only saving grace is
the panel cutting service. Focus is cramped, dirty and the staff have an
attitude problem round here.


I used to have that attitude and also a feeling that they (Homebase)
were expensive. That was all changed at the weekend. First of all we
found a bathroom suite we liked in the "half price sale". When I asked
when the next 10% off day was, they did a deal by marking down the
items that were in stock such that I got 10% off the whole order (the
rest to be delivered). I don't know if the fact B&Q were running a 10%
promo at the weekend was relevant.

Then, wanting some plumbing fittings, off we went to B&Q. The display
was absolutely appaling, with hooks crammed in everywhere, half of
which had the wrong items hanging on them. The queues were long
(probably due to the 10% promo) and they didn't have half of what I
wanted either. Back to Homebase, the store is clean, bright and every
item was in stock, correctly priced and labelled and the prices weren't
all that bad. Guess who got the business. In future, Homebase will be
first, rather than last resort as it is actually more convenient for
me.

MBQ