while ripping down my ceiling for my kitchen extension to do a bit of
electrical work i have discovered that there is no insulation in the
roof.What is the best optiion for this - how thick do i need it and what is
the best to use bearing in mind that i am putting up spots



cheers

Mark

"Mark Downey" wrote in message
...
while ripping down my ceiling for my kitchen extension to do a bit of
electrical work i have discovered that there is no insulation in the
roof.What is the best optiion for this - how thick do i need it and what
is the best to use bearing in mind that i am putting up spots



cheers

Mark


Loft insulation should be about 250mm. So if you work by the same principle.

But about as much as you can fit in would be ideal.

"RedOnRed" wrote in message
...

"Mark Downey" wrote in message
...
while ripping down my ceiling for my kitchen extension to do a bit of
electrical work i have discovered that there is no insulation in the
roof.What is the best optiion for this - how thick do i need it and what
is the best to use bearing in mind that i am putting up spots



cheers

Mark


Loft insulation should be about 250mm. So if you work by the same
principle.

But about as much as you can fit in would be ideal.


And leaving around 200 to 300 mm around the spot light positions, and an air
gap to allow ventilation of the heat away from them. In fact, does a
kitchen ceiling really need to be insulated fully?

"RedOnRed" wrote in message
...

Loft insulation should be about 250mm. So if you work by the same
principle.

But about as much as you can fit in would be ideal.

Remembering it's the air trapped in it that is the main insulator - don't
pack it in tight, let it sit loosely.

If you compress it all up it's way less effective.

"RedOnRed" wrote in message
...

"Mark Downey" wrote in message
...

while ripping down my ceiling for my kitchen extension to do a bit of
electrical work i have discovered that there is no insulation in the
roof.What is the best optiion for this - how thick do i need it and what
is the best to use bearing in mind that i am putting up spots

Loft insulation should be about 250mm.

No. As thick as you can get it.

"BigWallop" wrote in message
news

"RedOnRed" wrote in message
...

"Mark Downey" wrote in message
...
while ripping down my ceiling for my kitchen extension to do a bit of
electrical work i have discovered that there is no insulation in the
roof.What is the best optiion for this - how thick do i need it and
what
is the best to use bearing in mind that i am putting up spots

Loft insulation should be about 250mm. So if you work by the same
principle.

But about as much as you can fit in would be ideal.

And leaving around 200 to 300 mm around the spot light positions, and an
air
gap to allow ventilation of the heat away from them. In fact, does a
kitchen ceiling really need to be insulated fully?

yep it does.

Doctor Evil wrote:

Loft insulation should be about 250mm.


No. As thick as you can get it.

Usual clueless nonsense...

Dr. Drivel, usenet posting "As thick as you can get it"!



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Mark Downey wrote:

while ripping down my ceiling for my kitchen extension to do a bit of
electrical work i have discovered that there is no insulation in the
roof.What is the best optiion for this - how thick do i need it and what is
the best to use bearing in mind that i am putting up spots

Since the flat roof is (I assume) already sat straight on the tops of
the firings (or perhaps even the rafters), you don't have the option of
a warm deck construction (i.e. with insulation above the woodwork, but
below the roof substrate).

This basically leaves the option of stuffing the space between the
rafters. Hopefully water should not be getting in from outside the roof,
so there is less need to arrange ventilation of the roof timbers (as
there would be in a loft for example). Most moisture that gets there
will be coming from the kitchen. Hence a foil covered PIR board (like
Celotex, Kingspan, Ecotherm etc) cut to be an interference fit between
the rafters would be the simplest way forward. A whole lot nicer to work
with (and more efficient) than the traditional rockwool type products.
100mm would probably be overkill, as little as 50mm would make a big
difference... (especially when you consider the problem with many
kitchens is getting the unwanted heat out of them!). It would also leave
a bit of air space round the spots to stop them overheating.

You may want to opt for fully reflective bulbs (i.e. not dichroic) to
ensure not too much heat is allowed to pass back into the ceiling void.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Isn't this also a situation for those back cover thingies - the type that
fill with foam and seal the spot light fitting to prevent fire bridging?
Not sure how possible these are to fit with no loft access mind!

Phil

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
....Hopefully water should not be getting in from outside the roof....

This is a *flat* roof we're talking about!

Leaking is what they do :-(

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Doctor Evil wrote:

Loft insulation should be about 250mm.


No. As thick as you can get it.

Usual clueless

I repeat. "As thick as you can get it." It is cheap and easy to install
too.

"PC Paul" wrote in message
. uk...
"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
....Hopefully water should not be getting in from outside the roof....

This is a *flat* roof we're talking about!

Leaking is what they do :-(

Best to use high performing Kingspan foam insulation in case of water
ingress.

"PC Paul" wrote in message
. uk...
"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
....Hopefully water should not be getting in from outside the roof....

This is a *flat* roof we're talking about!

Leaking is what they do :-(





No it aint.

I've got a flat roof which I had re-done with a fibre glass roofing system
and a 25 year guarantee with it. It's miles better then the tar & felt
option which we still persevere with since Roman times.

On 11 Jul 2005, RedOnRed wrote
"PC Paul" wrote in message
. uk...

This is a *flat* roof we're talking about!
Leaking is what they do :-(

No it aint.
I've got a flat roof which I had re-done with a fibre glass
roofing system and a 25 year guarantee with it. It's miles better
then the tar & felt option which we still persevere with since
Roman times.

I don't think the Romans had many flat roofs in the wet colonies --
very shallow-pitched ones (with tiles), yes; but flat?

(And if they did, I suspect they used a lot of lead instead of tarred
felt. They were big on lead, were the Romans. And it's still a fairly
unbeatable covering for roof flats.)

--
Cheers,
Harvey

"RedOnRed" wrote in message
...

"PC Paul" wrote in message
. uk...
"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
....Hopefully water should not be getting in from outside the roof....

This is a *flat* roof we're talking about!

Leaking is what they do :-(

No it aint.

I've got a flat roof which I had re-done with a fibre glass roofing system
and a 25 year guarantee with it. It's miles better then the tar & felt
option which we still persevere with since Roman times.

I had my garage done the same - been great ever since. But every flat roof
I've ever had has needed something doing to it. Damn things.

Probability says that unless the roof has already been redone, leaks *will*
be a problem and the choice of insulation should take that into account.

"Harvey Van Sickle" wrote in message
...
On 11 Jul 2005, RedOnRed wrote
"PC Paul" wrote in message
. uk...

This is a *flat* roof we're talking about!
Leaking is what they do :-(

No it aint.
I've got a flat roof which I had re-done with a fibre glass
roofing system and a 25 year guarantee with it. It's miles better
then the tar & felt option which we still persevere with since
Roman times.

I don't think the Romans had many flat roofs in the wet colonies --
very shallow-pitched ones (with tiles), yes; but flat?

(And if they did, I suspect they used a lot of lead instead of tarred
felt. They were big on lead, were the Romans. And it's still a fairly
unbeatable covering for roof flats.)

--
Cheers,
Harvey

I should have said tar and felt technology which, before you start on about
how they didn't use felt from Wickes or something back then, has basically
been in use since Roman times in one variation or another.

Hope that makes things clearer for you.

TheScullster wrote:

Isn't this also a situation for those back cover thingies - the type that
fill with foam and seal the spot light fitting to prevent fire bridging?

An Intumescent hood?

These are designed to maintain fire break integrity. They don't do
anything to allow the lamp fitting itself to cool however - you still
want some space round them

Not sure how possible these are to fit with no loft access mind!

Doable, they fold up to allow you to get them in there...

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
Mark Downey wrote:
while ripping down my ceiling for my kitchen extension to do a bit of
electrical work i have discovered that there is no insulation in the
roof.What is the best optiion for this - how thick do i need it and what
is the best to use bearing in mind that i am putting up spots

When I has something like this done, the architect wanted to leave a free
flow of air to the joists and roof plywood base. So he specified 4"
polystyrene between joists and plasterboard. Of course you lose some
ceiling height.

--
*I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article .net,
Doctor Evil wrote:
while ripping down my ceiling for my kitchen extension to do a bit
of electrical work i have discovered that there is no insulation in
the roof.What is the best optiion for this - how thick do i need it
and what is the best to use bearing in mind that i am putting up
spots

Loft insulation should be about 250mm.

No. As thick as you can get it.

And just what size joists do

A general response to general comment. Obvious to the intelligent, but not
to you. Sad but true.

In article s.net,
Doctor Evil wrote:
Loft insulation should be about 250mm.

No. As thick as you can get it.

And just what size joists do

A general response to general comment.

No it wasn't - you simply didn't read the post fully as usual. So dashed
off one of your one size fits all replies.

--
*When the going gets tough, the tough take a coffee break *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.