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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#41
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In message , Capitol
writes raden wrote: Surely volume is much more important and easier to measure Since when did common sense apply to political decisions? Sorry, you got me there -- geoff |
#42
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there really arent better packing options for bulky items, thats why
its used. Maybe you know of one... There are better options but they aren't as convenient for the packer. Corrugated board (cardboard to you!) can be cut and folded into all manner of ingenious fitments, and is 100% recyclable. Around 80% of every sheet of board made in the UK is recycled material. The remaining 20% is made from trees that would not otherwise have been grown. In the US they can grow more trees so they use a lot more virgin fibre - again, these are trees that would not otherwise have been planted. Corrugated board is green, and it was used for packing washing machines and the like long before polystyrene became popular! There is another alternative, which is moulded pulp fitments, made from 100% recycled paper, but capital costs prevent its widespread use. BTW, I am a freelance writer, specialising in paper and packaging - any commissions out there? |
#43
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#44
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On 5 Jun 2005 23:55:32 -0700, "Homer2911" wrote:
BTW, I am a freelance writer, specialising in paper Isn't it all done on word processors and email these days? 8-) |
#46
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wrote in message oups.com... Mary Fisher wrote: wrote in message oups.com. there really arent better packing options for bulky items, thats why its used. Maybe you know of one... No, but it's not necessary to get the item home from the store. no, its necessary to get it from factory to store. I've seen moulded cardboard fibre doing the same thing very effectively - and it can be recycled. But my point was that the plastic could be removed at the checkout desk and left in the store. If enough people do that some other solution will be found. Packaging is a tough nut to crack. Folk often clamour for less, but in most cases that would only lead to more waste from damaged goods. Silly packaging seems to be the exception these days, though certainly it was more common once. I think the airbags are a real move forward. Maybe we need to develop expanded straw packing! I agree. It's very successful. Airbags and extremely good too - but they're used in unnecessary applications. For instance, if you order a small book from Amazon it comes in a box which is too big for the book. It could be made even bigger using clever built-in folds. The same box will be used for very large books. The space surrounding your small book will be filled with airbags. I know, having worked in packaging, that it's done so that the minimum number of box sizes have to be bought and stored. It's also so that the monkeys who do they packing don't have to make intelligent decisions, such as "which size of box shall I use?". Viking Direct have a better system, their goods are strapped down into the box, no extra packaging is needed. There must be many other protective packing systems, all it needs is some consideration for the planet and the future. Moulded expanded polystyrene is NOT essential. Mary NT |
#47
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Mary Fisher wrote:
For instance, if you order a small book from Amazon it comes in a box which is too big for the book. It could be made even bigger using clever built-in folds. The same box will be used for very large books. The space surrounding your small book will be filled with airbags. I have always been quite impressed with the way Amazon package groups of things... a card with soft plastic film that traps the books and then it sits in suspension in the box. Simple and effective at maintaining some elasticated "air space" round the books but without much packaging. I know, having worked in packaging, that it's done so that the minimum number of box sizes have to be bought and stored. It's also so that the monkeys who do they packing don't have to make intelligent decisions, such as "which size of box shall I use?". You also have to balance the "big picture" environmental impact of quantity of packaging against returns rate due to damage in transit. Viking Direct have a better system, their goods are strapped down into the box, no extra packaging is needed. Screwfix seem to be doing something similar with a sticky partition that reduces the effective box size to match the content. There must be many other protective packing systems, all it needs is some consideration for the planet and the future. Moulded expanded polystyrene is NOT essential. Scrunched up brown paper also works quite well. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#48
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Rob Morley wrote:
You can get foam packaging that's made from vegetable starch. Tastes like wotsits without the cheesy coating! Another variety could be used as sugarless 'sugar puffs' breakfast cereal with a bit of milk. I used to work with PC components delivered in that kind of stuff. Got a reputation in stores as the 'foam muncher'. -- Adrian |
#49
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"John Rumm" wrote in message ... I have always been quite impressed with the way Amazon package groups of things... a card with soft plastic film that traps the books and then it sits in suspension in the box. Simple and effective at maintaining some elasticated "air space" round the books but without much packaging. I often get air bags. They're wonderful for packing things we send out! I know, having worked in packaging, that it's done so that the minimum number of box sizes have to be bought and stored. It's also so that the monkeys who do they packing don't have to make intelligent decisions, such as "which size of box shall I use?". You also have to balance the "big picture" environmental impact of quantity of packaging against returns rate due to damage in transit. There's no reason why an efficient small packageshould be any less secure than a large one. Viking Direct have a better system, their goods are strapped down into the box, no extra packaging is needed. Screwfix seem to be doing something similar with a sticky partition that reduces the effective box size to match the content. There must be many other protective packing systems, all it needs is some consideration for the planet and the future. Moulded expanded polystyrene is NOT essential. Scrunched up brown paper also works quite well. But it's in short supply ... Mary |
#50
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On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 14:41:09 +0100, Adrian C wrote:
Tastes like wotsits without the cheesy coating! But with added fungicides... |
#51
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On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 10:14:09 +0100, Owain
wrote: Popcorn was supposed to be the new environmentally-friendly packaging, Allegedly invented at Los Alamos, as packaging for bits of the Trinity Gadget. |
#52
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On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 15:03:43 UTC, "Mary Fisher"
wrote: Scrunched up brown paper also works quite well. But it's in short supply ... Not if you get deliveries from CPC...who often use scrunched up brown paper.... |
#53
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Bob Eager wrote:
Scrunched up brown paper also works quite well. But it's in short supply ... It is? Not if you get deliveries from CPC...who often use scrunched up brown paper.... Must admit I had only had air bags from CPC of late... -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#54
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On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 15:49:49 UTC, John Rumm
wrote: Bob Eager wrote: Scrunched up brown paper also works quite well. But it's in short supply ... It is? Not if you get deliveries from CPC...who often use scrunched up brown paper.... Must admit I had only had air bags from CPC of late... Seems to be pretty random..probably depends on the packer. Parcel I had last week used brown paper... |
#55
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"Bob Eager" wrote in message ... On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 15:03:43 UTC, "Mary Fisher" wrote: Scrunched up brown paper also works quite well. But it's in short supply ... Not if you get deliveries from CPC...who often use scrunched up brown paper.... CPC? Mary |
#56
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On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 18:34:46 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote: CPC? Ubiquitous supplier of spare belts for microwaves and new needles for videos. |
#57
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"Andy Dingley" wrote in message ... On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 18:34:46 +0100, "Mary Fisher" wrote: CPC? Ubiquitous supplier of spare belts for microwaves and new needles for videos. Oh. Thanks. We have neither so I wouldn't be expected to know :-) Mary p.s. belts in a microwave? I didn't realise they had mechanical transmission .... |
#58
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In message , Bob Eager
writes On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 15:03:43 UTC, "Mary Fisher" wrote: Scrunched up brown paper also works quite well. But it's in short supply ... Not if you get deliveries from CPC...who often use scrunched up brown paper.... Yeah one small piece folded in the top of a massive box with everything rattling around ... on several occasions But yes, I always use it for packing fans -- geoff |
#59
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In message , Bob Eager
writes On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 15:49:49 UTC, John Rumm wrote: Bob Eager wrote: Scrunched up brown paper also works quite well. But it's in short supply ... It is? Not if you get deliveries from CPC...who often use scrunched up brown paper.... Must admit I had only had air bags from CPC of late... Seems to be pretty random..probably depends on the packer. Parcel I had last week used brown paper... But not as bad as RS .... who will send e.g. transformers in a jiffy bag and the capacitors etc from the same order in a box (when there's plenty of room in the box for the whole order) -- geoff |
#60
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In message , Mary
Fisher writes "Bob Eager" wrote in message ... On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 15:03:43 UTC, "Mary Fisher" wrote: Scrunched up brown paper also works quite well. But it's in short supply ... Not if you get deliveries from CPC...who often use scrunched up brown paper.... CPC? Err mary ... google or even the diy faqs -- geoff |
#61
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In message .com,
Homer2911 writes there really arent better packing options for bulky items, thats why its used. Maybe you know of one... There are better options but they aren't as convenient for the packer. Corrugated board (cardboard to you!) can be cut and folded into all manner of ingenious fitments, and is 100% recyclable. Around 80% of every sheet of board made in the UK is recycled material. The remaining 20% is made from trees that would not otherwise have been grown. In the US they can grow more trees so they use a lot more virgin fibre - again, these are trees that would not otherwise have been planted. Corrugated board is green, and it was used for packing washing machines and the like long before polystyrene became popular! There is another alternative, which is moulded pulp fitments, made from 100% recycled paper, but capital costs prevent its widespread use. BTW, I am a freelance writer, specialising in paper and packaging - any commissions out there? Yes, I'm looking for someone to do my packing for me But not IIRC in Telford -- geoff |
#62
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On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 20:01:15 UTC, "Mary Fisher"
wrote: "Andy Dingley" wrote in message ... On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 18:34:46 +0100, "Mary Fisher" wrote: CPC? Ubiquitous supplier of spare belts for microwaves and new needles for videos. Oh. Thanks. We have neither so I wouldn't be expected to know :-) They get mentioned on here a fair bit (CPC, that is...) |
#63
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"Bob Eager" wrote in message news:176uZD2KcidF-pn2- CPC? Ubiquitous supplier of spare belts for microwaves and new needles for videos. Oh. Thanks. We have neither so I wouldn't be expected to know :-) They get mentioned on here a fair bit (CPC, that is...) But probably only in posts I don't read. I don't open everything :-( Memo to self: must take a greater interest even in things I don't know about .... Mary |
#64
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"raden" wrote in message ... In message , Mary Fisher writes "Bob Eager" wrote in message ... On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 15:03:43 UTC, "Mary Fisher" wrote: Scrunched up brown paper also works quite well. But it's in short supply ... Not if you get deliveries from CPC...who often use scrunched up brown paper.... CPC? Err mary ... google No. I get better answers here, as I've said before. No-one needs to answer. If they don't like it they can tell me to FO. But not everyone is as rude as that :-) Mary |
#65
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Mary Fisher wrote:
CPC? Combined Precision Components. Sort of like RS but less "presentation" and (much) cheaper prices, bit like Maplin but more stuff, Very like Farnell (since they liked 'em so much they bought them a few years back!) See www.cpc.co.uk (supprised that anyone on uk.d-i-y has not heard of them... they seem to get about one order a week from me at the moment!) -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#66
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Andy Dingley wrote:
On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 14:41:09 +0100, Adrian C wrote: Tastes like wotsits without the cheesy coating! But with added fungicides... Was years ago, I don't think the effects are a permanent problem. Me other head doesn't do much in the way of thinking anyway, and I've got used to tripping up over the extra leg. :-) -- Adrian |
#67
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"John Rumm" wrote in message news:42a4c0dd$0$1727$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp- CPC? Combined Precision Components. Thank you. Sort of like RS er ... ? but less "presentation" and (much) cheaper prices, bit like Maplin but more stuff, Very like Farnell (since they liked 'em so much they bought them a few years back!) Oh, I seem to remember a takeover but I still see the Farnell vans. See www.cpc.co.uk (supprised that anyone on uk.d-i-y has not heard of them... they seem to get about one order a week from me at the moment!) I'm not an electronics type. Maplin is local and does most things we need, which isn't much. It all seems to be entertainment stuff in there ... Mary -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#68
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On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 18:34:46 +0100, Mary Fisher wrote:
CPC? Want a catalogue? Cost of postage it's about 3kg... They have recently sent me two 2005 ones for no apparent reason and I already had one... On the basis of "they know best" the orginal went for recycling last week. But I still have one spare. -- Cheers Dave. pam is missing e-mail |
#69
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Mary Fisher wrote:
Sort of like RS "Radio Spares" - the industry standard supplier of all stuff most hi-tech firms want: rswww.com (and no that was not a typo!) but less "presentation" and (much) cheaper prices, bit like Maplin but more stuff, Very like Farnell (since they liked 'em so much they bought them a few years back!) Oh, I seem to remember a takeover but I still see the Farnell vans. Yup Farnell still trade under their own name as well. Seem to have the same product range almost as well. I'm not an electronics type. They do electronics, but loads of other stuff as well including tools. They also have a big range of "white goods" spares for domestic appliances. (When our fridge freezer decided its frost free fan was going to fail a couple of weeks back (after 12 years or so) CPC had a drop in replacement - well more like wedge in replacement with your hand being gently sliced and frozen by the heat exchanger! ;-)) Maplin is local and does most things we need, which isn't much. It all seems to be entertainment stuff in there ... They still have some serious stuff, but they are not a patch on how they were! (I grew up 10 mins walk from their first shop. It was a place of awe and wonder in those days... not much on display (it was counter service only in those days) apart for a couple of the rather more serious looking synths and a couple of Atari 800 computers, but it was quite impressive for the staff who were very well clued up. It was interesting to see someone explain what they were attempting to build to the chap behind the counter, who would then set about designing a circuit for him on a bit of scrap paper, calculate the component values, and return ten mins later with a bag of all the bits required to build it!) -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#70
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On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 23:28:18 +0100, Mary Fisher wrote:
Oh, I seem to remember a takeover but I still see the Farnell vans. Thats 'cos Farnell are in Leeds. CPC are in Preston... I'm not an electronics type. Maplin is local and does most things we need, which isn't much. It all seems to be entertainment stuff in there ... CPC do a lot more than electronics. Looking through the catalogue can become "I didn't know I wanted ones of those" experiences... -- Cheers Dave. pam is missing e-mail |
#71
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Adrian C wrote:
Andy Dingley wrote: On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 14:41:09 +0100, Adrian C wrote: Tastes like wotsits without the cheesy coating! But with added fungicides... Was years ago, I don't think the effects are a permanent problem. Me other head doesn't do much in the way of thinking anyway, and I've got used to tripping up over the extra leg. :-) -- Adrian lol funny. I would assume it was all made from spoiled food starches, mouldy, contaminated and so on. NT |
#72
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Mary Fisher wrote:
wrote in message oups.com. there really arent better packing options for bulky items, thats why its used. Maybe you know of one... No, but it's not necessary to get the item home from the store. no, its necessary to get it from factory to store. I've seen moulded cardboard fibre doing the same thing very effectively - and it can be recycled. plastic packing takes much less energy to make than paper fibre based, hence the use of plastic bags now. But my point was that the plastic could be removed at the checkout desk and left in the store. If enough people do that some other solution will be found. ahh, i got ya Packaging is a tough nut to crack. Folk often clamour for less, but in most cases that would only lead to more waste from damaged goods. Silly packaging seems to be the exception these days, though certainly it was more common once. I think the airbags are a real move forward. Maybe we need to develop expanded straw packing! I agree. It's very successful. Im confused, theres no such thing as expanded straw, as far as i know anyway. Nor any way it could be expanded to use as packing - though no doubt someone will figure it out. Would be a great thing if they do, straw is plentiful and green. Airbags and extremely good too - but they're used in unnecessary applications. For instance, if you order a small book from Amazon it comes in a box which is too big for the book. It could be made even bigger using clever built-in folds. The same box will be used for very large books. The space surrounding your small book will be filled with airbags. I know, having worked in packaging, that it's done so that the minimum number of box sizes have to be bought and stored. It's also so that the monkeys who do they packing don't have to make intelligent decisions, such as "which size of box shall I use?". yes. Making decisions takes time, costs money. Wrong decisions result in damaged goods, and your energy savings undone 100fold. Viking Direct have a better system, their goods are strapped down into the box, no extra packaging is needed. There must be many other protective packing systems, all it needs is some consideration for the planet and the future. Moulded expanded polystyrene is NOT essential. there must? what are they? Consideration is why we use what we do. Polystyrene is used to reduce goods damage, it would waste more energy to not use it. You need to tell us what the alternative option is youre suggesting. As far as I can see there isnt one, we're doing as good as we can, in most cases. NT |
#73
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On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 21:32:21 UTC, John Rumm
wrote: (supprised that anyone on uk.d-i-y has not heard of them... they seem to get about one order a week from me at the moment!) Same here...the frequent 'flyers' are quite tempting. And they do a wider range of stuff than I ever realise...not all of it rock bottom prices, but mostly.. Have just been tempted by the one piece disposable overalls for just over a pound... (for SWMBO, of course...) |
#74
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"John Rumm" wrote in message ... Mary Fisher wrote: Sort of like RS "Radio Spares" - the industry standard supplier of all stuff most hi-tech firms want: rswww.com (and no that was not a typo!) but less "presentation" and (much) cheaper prices, bit like Maplin but more stuff, Very like Farnell (since they liked 'em so much they bought them a few years back!) Oh, I seem to remember a takeover but I still see the Farnell vans. Yup Farnell still trade under their own name as well. Seem to have the same product range almost as well. Right. Thanks for patiently explaning all of the above. I'm not an electronics type. They do electronics, but loads of other stuff as well including tools. They also have a big range of "white goods" spares for domestic appliances. ears prick up (When our fridge freezer decided its frost free fan was going to fail a couple of weeks back (after 12 years or so) CPC had a drop in replacement - well more like wedge in replacement with your hand being gently sliced and frozen by the heat exchanger! ;-)) OUCH! Maplin is local and does most things we need, which isn't much. It all seems to be entertainment stuff in there ... They still have some serious stuff, but they are not a patch on how they were! Oh good, it's not just us being picky then! (I grew up 10 mins walk from their first shop. It was a place of awe and wonder in those days... not much on display (it was counter service only in those days) apart for a couple of the rather more serious looking synths and a couple of Atari 800 computers, but it was quite impressive for the staff who were very well clued up. It was interesting to see someone explain what they were attempting to build to the chap behind the counter, who would then set about designing a circuit for him on a bit of scrap paper, calculate the component values, and return ten mins later with a bag of all the bits required to build it!) Yes sigh I remember our local one being like that. Now it's mostly sound, light, toys ... and certainly not as well clued-up staff. If they don't know something or can't find it they sigh and blame HO who "are always changing things" :-( Your tip about the white goods parts source could be useful. At the moment we have our own pet supplier (Regam) for that sort of thing but they've been in the same place for donkeys years and it can't last for ever, I've a feeling that the area is going to be developed. So thanks again, Mary |
#75
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"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message ll.com... On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 23:28:18 +0100, Mary Fisher wrote: Oh, I seem to remember a takeover but I still see the Farnell vans. Thats 'cos Farnell are in Leeds. CPC are in Preston... Oh ... I'm not an electronics type. Maplin is local and does most things we need, which isn't much. It all seems to be entertainment stuff in there ... CPC do a lot more than electronics. Looking through the catalogue can become "I didn't know I wanted ones of those" experiences... In that case I'll resist looking. Mary well perhaps a tiny peek won't harm ... |
#76
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"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message ll.com... On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 18:34:46 +0100, Mary Fisher wrote: CPC? Want a catalogue? Cost of postage it's about 3kg... That's £7.20 ... (up to 4Kg parcel service) I'll think about it. Didn't someone say something about a website? Mary |
#77
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wrote in message I think the airbags are a real move forward. Maybe we need to develop expanded straw packing! I agree. It's very successful. Im confused, theres no such thing as expanded straw, as far as i know anyway. Nor any way it could be expanded to use as packing - though no doubt someone will figure it out. Would be a great thing if they do, straw is plentiful and green. Perhaps I used the wrong tense. Back in the eighties a son did his masters on alternative uses of straw and various forms of the material were used in packaging, one was certainly a method which used it very finely chopped and 'expanded' by bonding it with some other material - not a man-made plastic. But I can't remember what and can't fine the thesis. It might have been in another part of the world even. I was excited by it because pod waste from OSR was used in the same way. So many things which happened then never took off. Straw is a problem for the agricultural industry, even with shorter stalked varieties there's far too much of it. The i.c.e. has a lot to answer for ... .... There must be many other protective packing systems, all it needs is some consideration for the planet and the future. Moulded expanded polystyrene is NOT essential. there must? what are they? I think youre reading of 'must' and my intention are perhaps different ... Consideration is why we use what we do. Polystyrene is used to reduce goods damage, it would waste more energy to not use it. You need to tell us what the alternative option is youre suggesting. As far as I can see there isnt one, we're doing as good as we can, in most cases. I don't understand that last sentence. Mary NT |
#78
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On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 00:52:00 +0100, John Rumm
wrote: Sort of like RS "Radio Spares" - the industry standard supplier of all stuff most hi-tech firms want: RS stands for "RS". It has never stood for "Radio Spares", or anything else. Oh no, certainly not. They can get quite vehement about this if you ask them 8-) I'm surprised they even still keep packaging in the same colours (although it's more yellow than the old cream and brown). I don't know what their excuse for the pervese rswww.com was. And the foot-long Broadvision URLs were another terrible idea. |
#79
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In article .com, Homer2911
URL:mailto BTW, I am a freelance writer, specialising in paper and packaging - any commissions out there? When you don't provide context for your missives? -- AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk ** Would you like to learn to post effectively? ** ** http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?How_to_post ** |
#80
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On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:23:32 UTC, Andy Dingley
wrote: On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 00:52:00 +0100, John Rumm wrote: Sort of like RS "Radio Spares" - the industry standard supplier of all stuff most hi-tech firms want: RS stands for "RS". It has never stood for "Radio Spares", or anything else. Surely the previous name of the company was RadioSpares? Or at least, they used to market stuff with that name on the packaging. But (many years ago now) they decided that 'RS Components' was a better name... I don't know what their excuse for the pervese rswww.com was. Well, rs.com is/was already Rocket Software. And Nominet don't allow top level names of only two characters...it was still a silly choice! |
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