On Fri, 20 May 2005 11:58:48 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

Yes - and a lot of stuff from armchair experts who seem to know everything.

No, not EVERYthing, Mary!

MM

"Brian G" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:
"Brian G" wrote in message
...
Grumps wrote:
The only people who might object to id cards are those who are
either illegal in this country or those who have something to
hide!!!!
In one way or another we carry id cards now! either a driving
licence or credit/debit card so what's the objections?.,
Grumps



carrying driving licences and credit cards with you is NOT
mandatory. If you leave them at home and then stopped and asked for
ID you are NOT commiting an offence by not having them on your
person.

Introduce a mandatory scheme, and then if you don't show the card
when asked
by ANYONE who has been granted the necessary authority (not just the
local plod, but literally the butcher, the baker and the
candle-stick maker if they have been given the authority to do so) ,
you can/will be arrested.

Big brother is coming - a little late, but he is coming!

Well, you'll be in IoM so you'll be OK.

Bye ...

Mary

Brian G

Who's to say that you'll be safe there Mary?

I'm not going, I was waving at whoever itwas said it was going ...

Mary

"Sue Begg" wrote in message
...


Once, when stopped, I was asked if I were in the police because I was
wearing one of their blue shirts. I'd bought it at a charity shop, it
didn't
take much convincing that a little fat woman wasn't really suitable
material
for the West Yorkshire Constabulary.

Mary


We used to have lots of those shirts because my father in law was in the
fire brigade there and they were issued with new shirts faster than he
could wear them out.
Not much use to me because although I am fat I was nowhere near his 20
stone 6ft frame. But they made great painting overalls :-)

Waste not want not!

Recycling rules OK!

Mary
--
Sue Begg
Remove my clothes to reply

Do not mess in the affairs of dragons - for
you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

"Brian G" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:
"Brian G" wrote in message
...


If everyone of an innocent nature was carrying an ID card, then you
wouldn't be worried at all about being stopped in the street by the
police and asked to show your ID. I think you'd only fly off the
handle and object if you knew you had something to hide, or had just
done something that is against the rules of society, normally called
the moral code.

What about the freedom just to walk about without having to explain
yourself
to all and sundry. Remember, it just won't be PC plod who will have
the power to stop you.

For some it might be nice to be talked to :-)

Being asked for an ID card is not 'being talked to' is it?

Oh - you don't mean they'll use flash cards?

That will be a pity, especially for the illiterate.


Ask that question to those people who have been stopped and searched
under the 'Suss law' - even though they have been going about their
lawful business. You, like me are old enough to remember that one,
with people being stopped just because they had long hair - I last
saw that law being used a few years ago when driving through a major
city and four plods had just stopped a young lad for no apparent
reason in the 'club-land' area and
were searching him.

"apparent" is the key word.

What I saw, was a perfectly innocent lad being stopped bt four bores
coppers

How do you know they were bores?

standing on the street - and he was let go rather quickly when a little
fraca started just up the road - as I said, four bored plods!

No, you said 'bores' ...


Why are you playing away? No need to answer that, I'm not interested,
but it's something to examine your own conscience about.


Wife was with me at the time Mary, and after nearly forty years of
marriage,
I think that's the last thing I want to do (keeping one female happy take
all the time that I have, as you will understand) but 'playing away' has
more than one connotation in my book, and it was being used as an
example -
anyway, howcome you are so familiar with the term?

I'm probably even older than you, you can't get to my dotage without picking
up street language. I've had a rich life :-)

Mary

"Brian G" wrote in message
...




Read my response to Mary above - quite right, but I do have a pair of eyes
and a brain that tells me that 2 + 2 is 4 (not 5)

Only for certain valies of 2. and 5.

Mary

"Brian G" wrote in message
...

I actually agree with the CORRECT use of speed cameras - and as you infer,
if you break the speed limit and get caught - then tough and don't whinge
about it...

I've never heard of an incorrect use of one.

Not one I believe anyway :-)

Of to make dinner, wild salmon, wilted buttered bistort, home grown mixed
salad, home made sourdough bread, good salty Welsh butter and Sancerre.

I didn't realise how hungry I was.

Mary




Brian G

On Fri, 20 May 2005 12:34:45 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Peter Parry" wrote in message

There's often a police car outside our house. I don't think it's done us any
harm.

Others have not been so lucky "Pub cellarman Ian Lawless, 40, and his
unemployed godson, Gary Lawson, 20, firebombed former tugboat skipper
Alf Wilkins's Grimsby flat... They struck after reading he had been
accused of molesting a nine-year-old girl on their estate. "

"A 14 year old girl was burnt alive in the West Midlands when
vigilantes firebombed her home, wrongly believing a paedophile was
living there"

"Francis Duffy, 67, was nearly beaten to death after the Manchester
Evening News published a picture of a paedophile who looked like him"

"Hello Jim, saw you by our neighbours this morning" "Yes - it's about
this missing girl - we got their name off the computer so went to
chat to them. Didn't get anything out of them though" Won't ever
harm anyone will it?

There is nowhere else in the world where such a draconian system as
being proposed for the UK is in use or even contemplated.

Evidence?

http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/pre...F/IDreport.pdf

Clause 1 and Schedule 1 of the Bill sets out more than fifty
categories of information that may be required for the register
(subject to change by regulation). Along with the standard
identifiers such as name, birth coordinates, current and previous
addresses and residential status, the register is also mandated to
contain such data as biometric details, full chronology of
residential location in the UK and overseas, a record of all dealings
between the individual and the Register and a full audit trail of
access and disclosure activity on the Register.

The Bill creates many new offences including:-

Refusal to obey an order from the Secretary of State.
Failure to notify authorities about a lost, stolen, damaged or
defective card.
Failure to renew a card.
Failure to submit to fingerprinting.
Failure to provide information demanded by the government.
Failure to attend an interview at a specified place and time.
Failure to notify the Secretary of State of any change in
personal circumstances (including change of address).
Failure to obey an order to register.
Providing false information.
Penalties range from £1,000 fine to two years imprisonment.
A penalty of up to £2,500 can be levied for failure to attend an
appointment for a scan of fingerprints and iris. This fine can be
repeated for each and every subsequent failure to attend.

Happy with all that? Especially as the scheme is expected to have
almost no impact upon crime, terrorism or immigration.


--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

Mary Fisher wrote:


Since there isn't a correlation between the potatoes we use and the ID
device it's irrelevant :-)

You also dodged the question... What do you want ID cards to achieve,
and, are there alternative more cost effective / less intusive ways of
achieving them?

Oh, you mean let other people suffer first? That is, if they DO suffer.
That's not a charitable outlook.

Its a pragmatic one. It is the difference between wizdom and
experiance... experiance says when you trip over a dodgy pavement, "I
won't do that again", when you see someone else trip over the pavement
and think "that pavement must be dodgy, I will remeber to not to do
that" you have wizdom. No point in you both suffering!


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Fri, 20 May 2005 17:10:54 GMT, Lee
wrote:

MM wrote:

How big is this clip? I've been waiting for at least 2 minutes! I only
have dial-up (no BB out here in the sticks!)

MM

It's only 332k

That's a lifetime achievement award when one is on dial-up.

MM

On Fri, 20 May 2005 18:35:37 +0100, Peter Parry
wrote:

On Fri, 20 May 2005 12:34:45 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Peter Parry" wrote in message

There's often a police car outside our house. I don't think it's done us any
harm.

Others have not been so lucky "Pub cellarman Ian Lawless, 40, and his
unemployed godson, Gary Lawson, 20, firebombed former tugboat skipper
Alf Wilkins's Grimsby flat... They struck after reading he had been
accused of molesting a nine-year-old girl on their estate. "

"A 14 year old girl was burnt alive in the West Midlands when
vigilantes firebombed her home, wrongly believing a paedophile was
living there"

"Francis Duffy, 67, was nearly beaten to death after the Manchester
Evening News published a picture of a paedophile who looked like him"

"Hello Jim, saw you by our neighbours this morning" "Yes - it's about
this missing girl - we got their name off the computer so went to
chat to them. Didn't get anything out of them though" Won't ever
harm anyone will it?

There is nowhere else in the world where such a draconian system as
being proposed for the UK is in use or even contemplated.

Evidence?

http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/pre...F/IDreport.pdf

Clause 1 and Schedule 1 of the Bill sets out more than fifty
categories of information that may be required for the register
(subject to change by regulation). Along with the standard
identifiers such as name, birth coordinates, current and previous
addresses and residential status, the register is also mandated to
contain such data as biometric details, full chronology of
residential location in the UK and overseas, a record of all dealings
between the individual and the Register and a full audit trail of
access and disclosure activity on the Register.

The Bill creates many new offences including:-

Refusal to obey an order from the Secretary of State.
Failure to notify authorities about a lost, stolen, damaged or
defective card.
Failure to renew a card.
Failure to submit to fingerprinting.
Failure to provide information demanded by the government.
Failure to attend an interview at a specified place and time.
Failure to notify the Secretary of State of any change in
personal circumstances (including change of address).
Failure to obey an order to register.
Providing false information.
Penalties range from £1,000 fine to two years imprisonment.
A penalty of up to £2,500 can be levied for failure to attend an
appointment for a scan of fingerprints and iris. This fine can be
repeated for each and every subsequent failure to attend.

Happy with all that? Especially as the scheme is expected to have
almost no impact upon crime, terrorism or immigration.

Peter, you're wasting your time. There's none so deaf as those who do
not wish to hear.

MM

:::Jerry:::: wrote:

information will not use it for wrongdoing.... by malice, or more
likely, incompetance.



Just like now you mean....

Yup just like now, only without the safguards of multiple incompatible
distributed and non connected databases that limit the scope of an
error, and provide alternative routes to perform sanity checks and
consistency checks on the data when something goes wrong.

Also don't forget the new scope for data mining exercises correlating
your innocent behaviour to that of a known problem groups.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

MM wrote:

I just thought I'd lighten the mood a bit. Oh, no! I've been struck by
lightning! (This is how the goose step was invented.)

20kV through the helmet... yup that might do it ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Mary Fisher wrote:
"Kieran Mansley" wrote in message
news

It's a pretty expensive thing to just try and see if it does
anything! Can't you think of anything else that you'd rather see
3 billion ukp spent on?

There may be financial benefits. You don't know until it's tried.

Thanks for that compelling business case... )

BigWallop wrote:

Stop taking these points to the extreme. Of course there will be
times when carrying a card are impossible, but don't keep saying
"it will come to the point that" all the time. As I did state,
if you can't produce a valid card within a certain time frame,
like you have to for documents for a vehicle now, then you have
commited an offence.

Oh, so they're going to issue 7 day 'producer' tickets then? That'll have
Al Quaeda trembling.....

MM wrote:

The best argument I have heard since this whole ID card farrago
started was given by the journalist Matthew Parris

PARRIS If you want something, if you want a service, if you're
asking somebody or some agency of the state to give you something
I can understand why they may ask you to show some sort of
identification in return. But I don't see why to walk out in the
street and to stand in the sunshine and to breathe in my own
country I should present anybody with any kind of identification.

Speak for the nation, Matthew!

raden wrote:
In message , Steve Walker
writes

This isn't crime prevention, the real crims & illegals will
continue to trade in cash or use false papers. It's the
introduction of a subservient, surveilled population of
work-units, instead of a nation of free & sovereign citizens.

I take it you're signing up then

Absolutely, I'll be first in line... )

BigWallop wrote:
"raden" wrote in message
news

Together with other recent pieces of legislation, we will end up
wit a significant proportion of people just living outside the
law

Just like now you mean? So no change there then. :-)

Except we'll have wasted £3bn on getting nowhere...

BigWallop wrote:

Moral code is allowing others the freedom to live their lives, as
well as you living yours.

Agreed - so sod off with trying to impose an ID card on me, please.

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

"Brian G" wrote in message
...

I actually agree with the CORRECT use of speed cameras - and as
you infer,
if you break the speed limit and get caught - then tough and don't
whinge
about it...

I've never heard of an incorrect use of one.

Not one I believe anyway :-)


I've got one not to far away from me now, the camera is positioned to
catch the accidental speeding that might happen when pulling away from
a roundabout, the reasons given for the road needing the camera was
due to the fact that there is a dangerous section of road
(duel-carriageway) were people have been killed, this section of road
is a mile further down the road - people still speed at the
location...

Up to the point this camera was erected I respected there use and the
given reasons for there positioning, that has all gone now - and no I
don't speed and thus have never been caught.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:


Since there isn't a correlation between the potatoes we use and the ID
device it's irrelevant :-)

You also dodged the question...

I don't think so but you've snipped so it's gone.For good as far as I'm
concerned, your choice.

What do you want ID cards to achieve,

I didn't suggest it, I merely offered the opinion that I don't object to it.
Perhaps not in those exact words but I hold to it.

and, are there alternative more cost effective / less intusive ways of
achieving them?

Irrelevant in the light of my reply.

Oh, you mean let other people suffer first? That is, if they DO suffer.
That's not a charitable outlook.

Its a pragmatic one. It is the difference between wizdom and experiance...
experiance says when you trip over a dodgy pavement, "I won't do that
again", when you see someone else trip over the pavement and think "that
pavement must be dodgy, I will remeber to not to do that" you have wizdom.
No point in you both suffering!

That paragraph isn't a good example of that. When you read good spelling do
you remember to use the right ones in your posts?

Mary


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
MM wrote:

The best argument I have heard since this whole ID card farrago
started was given by the journalist Matthew Parris

PARRIS If you want something, if you want a service, if you're
asking somebody or some agency of the state to give you something
I can understand why they may ask you to show some sort of
identification in return. But I don't see why to walk out in the
street and to stand in the sunshine and to breathe in my own
country I should present anybody with any kind of identification.

Speak for the nation, Matthew!

But not for me.

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote:
"raden" wrote in message
news

Together with other recent pieces of legislation, we will end up
wit a significant proportion of people just living outside the
law

Just like now you mean? So no change there then. :-)

Except we'll have wasted £3bn on getting nowhere...

Ah, not nowhere. All that hardware to be manufactured by people making a
living, ditto designers, ditto software, ditto operators, dittor enforcers,
ditto card makers, ditto ink... oh I can't be bothered. £3bn doesn't just go
nowhere, it's spent on things and services, all of which keep the world busy
and what goes round comes round.

Mary

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...

Yup just like now, only without the safguards of multiple incompatible
distributed and non connected databases that limit the scope of an error,
and provide alternative routes to perform sanity checks and consistency
checks on the data when something goes wrong.

Can you put that into Plain English please?

Also don't forget the new scope for data mining exercises correlating your
innocent behaviour to that of a known problem groups.

And that.

Mary

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
MM wrote:

I just thought I'd lighten the mood a bit. Oh, no! I've been struck by
lightning! (This is how the goose step was invented.)

20kV through the helmet... yup that might do it ;-)

You mean it might make him light up?

Mary


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Peter Parry" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 20 May 2005 12:34:45 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Peter Parry" wrote in message

There's often a police car outside our house. I don't think it's done us
any
harm.

Others have not been so lucky "Pub cellarman Ian Lawless, 40, and his
unemployed godson, Gary Lawson, 20, firebombed former tugboat skipper
Alf Wilkins's Grimsby flat... They struck after reading he had been
accused of molesting a nine-year-old girl on their estate. "

"A 14 year old girl was burnt alive in the West Midlands when
vigilantes firebombed her home, wrongly believing a paedophile was
living there"

"Francis Duffy, 67, was nearly beaten to death after the Manchester
Evening News published a picture of a paedophile who looked like him"

"Hello Jim, saw you by our neighbours this morning" "Yes - it's about
this missing girl - we got their name off the computer so went to
chat to them. Didn't get anything out of them though" Won't ever
harm anyone will it?

You've been reading the newspapersagain.

There is nowhere else in the world where such a draconian system as
being proposed for the UK is in use or even contemplated.

Evidence?

http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/pre...F/IDreport.pdf

Clause 1 and Schedule 1 of the Bill sets out more than fifty
categories of information that may be required for the register
(subject to change by regulation). Along with the standard
identifiers such as name, birth coordinates, current and previous
addresses and residential status, the register is also mandated to
contain such data as biometric details, full chronology of
residential location in the UK and overseas, a record of all dealings
between the individual and the Register and a full audit trail of
access and disclosure activity on the Register.

The Bill creates many new offences including:-

Refusal to obey an order from the Secretary of State.
Failure to notify authorities about a lost, stolen, damaged or
defective card.
Failure to renew a card.
Failure to submit to fingerprinting.
Failure to provide information demanded by the government.
Failure to attend an interview at a specified place and time.
Failure to notify the Secretary of State of any change in
personal circumstances (including change of address).
Failure to obey an order to register.
Providing false information.
Penalties range from £1,000 fine to two years imprisonment.
A penalty of up to £2,500 can be levied for failure to attend an
appointment for a scan of fingerprints and iris. This fine can be
repeated for each and every subsequent failure to attend.

My you HAVE been busy :-)

Happy with all that? Especially as the scheme is expected to have
almost no impact upon crime, terrorism or immigration.

I'm neither happy nor unhappy, just unmoved.

Mary


--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

I presume you left out a "'t" there


No, I don't think so (care to point out were you think it's missing),
but there is a typo 'u' should have been an 'i'.

And I suspect that 'were' should have been 'where'.

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
eenews.net...


I actually agree with the CORRECT use of speed cameras - and as
you infer,
if you break the speed limit and get caught - then tough and don't
whinge
about it...

I've never heard of an incorrect use of one.

Not one I believe anyway :-)


I've got one not to far away from me now, the camera is positioned to
catch the accidental speeding that might happen when pulling away from
a roundabout,

Accidental speeding when pulling away from a roundabout???

Sounds more like accidentally pulling my leg.

Mary

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
:::Jerry:::: wrote:

information will not use it for wrongdoing.... by malice, or more
likely, incompetance.



Just like now you mean....

Yup just like now, only without the safguards of multiple incompatible
distributed and non connected databases that limit the scope of an
error, and provide alternative routes to perform sanity checks and
consistency checks on the data when something goes wrong.

Also don't forget the new scope for data mining exercises correlating
your innocent behaviour to that of a known problem groups.

--
On the other hand consider this. The way our government works has not been
changed for centuries. There are, IIRC, about 14 major government
departments and on each of them you can have multiple identities. They do
not communicate between them because of bureaucracy, so the maths says that
the opportunity for fraud is proportional to Factorial 14. The bit that
gets me is the scroungers who know this and take advantage of it that is
costing me and you hard earned cash. I am not talking of the genuine single
parent who is having a hard time - its the professional lazy *******s who
are parasites to our society. A single identity across all of government
would eliminate the great majority of that. Think of how many hospitals
could be build by the savings.

Mike

In message , Mary
Fisher writes

"Kieran Mansley" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 19 May 2005 22:36:53 +0100, Mary Fisher wrote:

Not that I can see ID cards solving anything....

Perhaps not but I can't see them doing any harm either. It's worth a try.

Why is it worth a try ?

It's a solution which is very unlikely to solve most of the problems
which it's meant to address, and those it would solve are already
solvable by other means



It's a pretty expensive thing to just try and see if it does anything!
Can't you think of anything else that you'd rather see 3 billion ukp spent
on?

There may be financial benefits. You don't know until it's tried.

We could try and build a manned flight to Mars, what harm would it do,
there would definitely be financial benefits to the companies who got
the contracts and we haven't tried it yet
--
geoff

In message , Mary
Fisher writes

"Kieran Mansley" wrote in message


My point is that there are many other things that we could spend that
money on that would be much more likely to result in a benefit. Why risk
such a large amount of money on something when there are so many other
better uses for the cash?

Such as?

Now you're just getting silly

--
geoff

In message , Mary
Fisher writes

Not that I can see ID cards solving anything....

Perhaps not but I can't see them doing any harm either. It's worth a try.


I stirred this up in another NG too, here's an interesting response for
you Mary:

"I already had my credit rating shot to pieces once because of an admin
error, I would not like to have me shot to pieces because of a similar
error. "

--
geoff

On Fri, 20 May 2005 21:35:27 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


I'm neither happy nor unhappy, just unmoved.

A pity, I had expected more.

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

"raden" wrote in message
...

Not that I can see ID cards solving anything....

Perhaps not but I can't see them doing any harm either. It's worth a
try.

Why is it worth a try ?

If it's tried and fails that will be a great triumph for the detractors.
They'll be able to say that they were right. If it's not tried it will
rumble on for years with people complaining that it should be done.

It's a solution which is very unlikely to solve most of the problems which
it's meant to address, and those it would solve are already solvable by
other means

That's your opinion.



It's a pretty expensive thing to just try and see if it does anything!
Can't you think of anything else that you'd rather see 3 billion ukp
spent
on?

There may be financial benefits. You don't know until it's tried.

We could try and build a manned flight to Mars, what harm would it do,

None that I can see, it wouldn't be on my list of priorities but nor is ID.
I just don't think that it will do any harm and can't understand why people
get so uptight about it.

That's my opinion, it's not important because I have no influence. And don't
want any. I'm not trying to persuade anyone one way or the other.
..
there would definitely be financial benefits to the companies who got the
contracts and we haven't tried it yet

Indeed. And you never know, we might get an even better non-stick pan as a
by-product.

What's more, it will happen one day. Some things happen inexorably, like
manned flight to Mars, ID, legal euthanasia, cloned reproduction ... In my
experience if something's possible and talked about for long enough it
happens. It's the human condition.

Mary
--
geoff

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
eenews.net...


I actually agree with the CORRECT use of speed cameras - and as
you infer,
if you break the speed limit and get caught - then tough and
don't
whinge
about it...

I've never heard of an incorrect use of one.

Not one I believe anyway :-)


I've got one not to far away from me now, the camera is positioned
to
catch the accidental speeding that might happen when pulling away
from
a roundabout,

Accidental speeding when pulling away from a roundabout???

Sounds more like accidentally pulling my leg.


You sound like a non driver (or one with little to nil experience)....

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , Mary Fisher
writes

Not that I can see ID cards solving anything....

Perhaps not but I can't see them doing any harm either. It's worth a try.


I stirred this up in another NG too, here's an interesting response for
you Mary:

"I already had my credit rating shot to pieces once because of an admin
error, I would not like to have me shot to pieces because of a similar
error. "

Well, Geoff, it's of no interest to me. It couldn't happen to me because I
don't want credit. I've learned the hard way that debt is destructive and
that I'd rather go without things than owe.

But as I've said before, on probably many other subjects, hard cases make
bad laws. The exceptions prove the rules etc. There are glitches in the best
run systems, have you never madea mistake? I have.

I'd bet that the poster who had a bad experience isn't typical of his credit
company and you can't make major decisions based on a minority of
misfortunes, you just have to aim for as few misfortunes as possible.

Mary

--
geoff

"Peter Parry" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 20 May 2005 21:35:27 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


I'm neither happy nor unhappy, just unmoved.

A pity, I had expected more.

You'll have to try harder :-)

But not tonight, I'm off to bed.

Just make sure that the gate, sheds, garage, front and back doors are
locked, that curtains are drawn, all electrical equipment unplugged, water
turned off, gas ... oh and look under the bed ... you never know!

Oh, poor old dear. One day she'll get her comeuppance.

Which reminds me that one night, years ago, we were burgled - that is,
someone came in through the (open - ajar - front door during the night and
took my bag from the sitting room. A simple phone call to CPP solved that
problem - oh no - they've got data on me. The police came and commented on
the mess the interlopers had left.

They hadn't touched anything else.

Goodnight,

Mary

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
eenews.net...

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
eenews.net...


I actually agree with the CORRECT use of speed cameras - and as
you infer,
if you break the speed limit and get caught - then tough and
don't
whinge
about it...

I've never heard of an incorrect use of one.

Not one I believe anyway :-)


I've got one not to far away from me now, the camera is positioned
to
catch the accidental speeding that might happen when pulling away
from
a roundabout,

Accidental speeding when pulling away from a roundabout???

Sounds more like accidentally pulling my leg.


You sound like a non driver (or one with little to nil experience)....

LOL! I was probably driving before you were born! And I've driven (and still
do) in all conditions and with a variety of vehicles you couldn't imagine.

Mary

fredbloggstwo wrote:
On the other hand consider this. The way our government works has not been
changed for centuries. There are, IIRC, about 14 major government
departments and on each of them you can have multiple identities. They do
not communicate between them because of bureaucracy, so the maths says that
the opportunity for fraud is proportional to Factorial 14. ...

An alternative would be to close thirteen government departments.

Owain

On Fri, 20 May 2005 17:03:53 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:


The "tracking" of a standard GSM mobile can only be done by
triangulation based on signal levels received at the cell base stations.

No, it is done by the timing component of the GSM signal. A single
base station can provide a fairly accurate range fix and a rough
azimuth. Two base stations provide an unambiguous fix of variable
accuracy and three provide the "cocked hat" beloved of real
navigators.

In a densely populated area (i.e. lots of base stations) that can be
accurate to a few hundred meters under best conditions.

Under best conditions it can be accurate to about 10m.

There is a new breed of phones that does include a GPS receiver.

Not in Europe.

Its main selling point is the ability to provide very local information
via SMS.

It has no selling point - it is a requirement of the American FCC.
Whether they ever appear elsewhere remains to be seen.

I believe that if the phone is off (as opposed to standby) then
these are defeated also.

They are.

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

Peter Parry wrote:
There is a new breed of phones that does include a GPS receiver.

Not in Europe.

Not quite true, some of the TETRA system hand-helds have TETRA/Cell/GPS
built in so I'm told, so any officer pressing the orange HELP ME NOW
button transmits 6 seconds or so of audio and GPS derived location with
Cell backing up the TETRA network.
Not all TETRA hand-helds have it though.

Niel.