For those who have switched off from VE day Warplanes ...

http://www.pledgebank.com/no2id


--
geoff

In article ,
raden writes:

For those who have switched off from VE day Warplanes ...

http://www.pledgebank.com/no2id

I read the pledge the first couple of times as
"I will refuse to register for an ID card but only if 3,000,000
people will sign up [for an ID card]."

Also, I think there might be a problem scaling the page to
3,000,000 signatories... ;-)

--
Andrew Gabriel

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
.. .
In article ,
raden writes:

For those who have switched off from VE day Warplanes ...

http://www.pledgebank.com/no2id

I read the pledge the first couple of times as
"I will refuse to register for an ID card but only if 3,000,000
people will sign up [for an ID card]."

Also, I think there might be a problem scaling the page to
3,000,000 signatories... ;-)

Andrew Gabriel


I'm all for Photo and Finger Print ID Cards. It should be made mandatory to
carried your ID at all times, and detention or a spot fine imposed if you're
found without one.

Just think of the implications if someone is arrested after breaking in to a
house. If they don't have an ID card on them, then it is automatically an
arrestible offence, and if they can't produce a qualified ID card within a
certain time frame, then another offence is added to the original crime. If
they produce a forged ID, then the offence is automatically doubled or tripled.

What a different society we'd all see, I think.

"BigWallop" wrote in message news:4r6je.35564


I'm all for Photo and Finger Print ID Cards. It should be made mandatory
to
carried your ID at all times, and detention or a spot fine imposed if
you're
found without one.

I admit that I can't see any problem with having them. But as for having
them with you at all times - I don't carry anything at all times, if I did
I'd probably lose it.

For instance, I've just been up to the football field with Spoouse to try
out his new electric plane. I took a camera and handkerchief, nothing else.
We walked so not even any keys. No need for money, purse, anything. I had no
pocket so where would I have put an ID card?

I take only what I need wherever I go.

Just think of the implications if someone is arrested after breaking in to
a
house. If they don't have an ID card on them, then it is automatically an
arrestible offence, and if they can't produce a qualified ID card within a
certain time frame, then another offence is added to the original crime.
If
they produce a forged ID, then the offence is automatically doubled or
tripled.

Ah - well I've no intention of breaking into a house.

What a different society we'd all see, I think.

I think you're probably right - or would be if it weren't for solicitors.

Mary

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

"BigWallop" wrote in message
news:4r6je.35564


I'm all for Photo and Finger Print ID Cards. It should be made
mandatory
to
carried your ID at all times, and detention or a spot fine imposed
if
you're
found without one.

I admit that I can't see any problem with having them. But as for
having
them with you at all times - I don't carry anything at all times, if
I did
I'd probably lose it.

For instance, I've just been up to the football field with Spoouse
to try
out his new electric plane. I took a camera and handkerchief,
nothing else.
We walked so not even any keys. No need for money, purse, anything.
I had no
pocket so where would I have put an ID card?

On a chain around your neck? You could even be naked and still carry
your ID card !


I take only what I need wherever I go.

So you would NEED to carry your ID card, just like most people
remember that they need to take their house keys when they go out, if
they are going to get back un that is.

Not that I can see ID cards solving anything....

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
eenews.net...


I'm all for Photo and Finger Print ID Cards. It should be made
mandatory
to
carried your ID at all times, and detention or a spot fine imposed
if
you're
found without one.

I admit that I can't see any problem with having them. But as for
having
them with you at all times - I don't carry anything at all times, if
I did
I'd probably lose it.

For instance, I've just been up to the football field with Spouse
to try
out his new electric plane. I took a camera and handkerchief,
nothing else.
We walked so not even any keys. No need for money, purse, anything.
I had no
pocket so where would I have put an ID card?

On a chain around your neck? You could even be naked and still carry
your ID card !

I'm not going out on a cold evening with no clothes!


I take only what I need wherever I go.

So you would NEED to carry your ID card, just like most people
remember that they need to take their house keys when they go out, if
they are going to get back un that is.

We didn't lock the door ... :-)

Not that I can see ID cards solving anything....

Perhaps not but I can't see them doing any harm either. It's worth a try.

Mary

In message ws.net,
":::Jerry::::" writes

So you would NEED to carry your ID card, just like most people
remember that they need to take their house keys when they go out, if
they are going to get back un that is.

Not that I can see ID cards solving anything....

I presume you left out a "'t" there

--
geoff

In message , Mary
Fisher writes

"BigWallop" wrote in message news:4r6je.35564


I'm all for Photo and Finger Print ID Cards. It should be made mandatory
to
carried your ID at all times, and detention or a spot fine imposed if
you're
found without one.

I admit that I can't see any problem with having them.

And you'd be quite happy to pay £80 (which will probably be
significantly more) for it, or did you forget that bit ?


--
geoff

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , Mary Fisher
writes

"BigWallop" wrote in message
news:4r6je.35564


I'm all for Photo and Finger Print ID Cards. It should be made
mandatory
to
carried your ID at all times, and detention or a spot fine imposed if
you're
found without one.

I admit that I can't see any problem with having them.

And you'd be quite happy to pay £80 (which will probably be significantly
more) for it, or did you forget that bit ?

I object to paying for something which is imposed and about which, unlike
say road fund tax, there is no choice.

That isn't a problem with HAVING an ID card though.

Mary


--
geoff

BigWallop wrote:

I'm all for Photo and Finger Print ID Cards. It should be made
mandatory to carried your ID at all times, and detention or a
spot fine imposed if you're found without one.

Just think of the implications if someone is arrested after
breaking in to a house. If they don't have an ID card on them,
then it is automatically an arrestible offence, and if they can't
produce a qualified ID card within a certain time frame, then
another offence is added to the original crime. If they produce
a forged ID, then the offence is automatically doubled or
tripled.

What a different society we'd all see, I think.

Yeah, a police state.
You are David Blunkett, AICMFP.

BigWallop wrote:

I'm all for Photo and Finger Print ID Cards. It should be made mandatory to
carried your ID at all times, and detention or a spot fine imposed if you're
found without one.

OMG

I always thought you were a little odd, but /really/???


--
Grunff

On Thu, 19 May 2005 20:12:48 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:


Just think of the implications if someone is arrested after breaking in to a
house. If they don't have an ID card on them, then it is automatically an
arrestible offence, and if they can't produce a qualified ID card within a
certain time frame, then another offence is added to the original crime. If
they produce a forged ID, then the offence is automatically doubled or tripled.

What a different society we'd all see, I think.

The clear up rate would soar - people could now be arrested for _not_
breaking into houses. Society would indeed be different.

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

BigWallop wrote:
"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
.. .
In article ,
raden writes:

For those who have switched off from VE day Warplanes ...

http://www.pledgebank.com/no2id

I read the pledge the first couple of times as
"I will refuse to register for an ID card but only if 3,000,000
people will sign up [for an ID card]."

Also, I think there might be a problem scaling the page to
3,000,000 signatories...

Andrew Gabriel


I'm all for Photo and Finger Print ID Cards. It should be made
mandatory to carried your ID at all times, and detention or a spot
fine imposed if you're found without one.

What happens if you forget your wallet? Or just feel like wandering around
the beach on a nice hot hot day in just your bathers (nowhere to slip your
ID into) , and a rather officious PC plod decides to ask for your ID and
won't allow you to go beck to where your clothes are? It will happen, and
according to your statement, you're going to spend a little time in a cell
and probably end up with a criminal record just for 'forgetting'.

Won't happen? Can't happen, you bet it will!

Just think of the implications if someone is arrested after breaking
in to a house. If they don't have an ID card on them, then it is
automatically an arrestible offence, and if they can't produce a
qualified ID card within a certain time frame, then another offence
is added to the original crime. If they produce a forged ID, then
the offence is automatically doubled or tripled.

What are the chances of someone being detected? My wife and I were asleep
when the b*****ds did us over - nobody detected them or even caught 'em.

What a different society we'd all see, I think.

Yes, an Orwellian society where it is possible that a little jumped-up prat
can sit at a computer terminal and wipe all your records clean - leaving you
out on a limb trying to prove who you are.

Won't happen? Can't happen, you bet it will!

Run out of cash when shopping and nip into the local bank and when you're
there, you find that you have 'forgotten' your ID card - sorry sir, I can't
give YOUR own cash, but hang on a minute whilst I call the police, because
even though I recognise you from your many visits here, those are the rules!

Won't happen? Can't happen, you bet it will!

Just wait for a few years after they have been made compulsory and see how
many British citizens are designated 'non-persons' because of errors and
deliberate tampering of their details.

Won't happen? Can't happen, you bet it will -- especially if you are a
committed anti-war or or other type of protestor - just read how they
recently tried to swing an ASBO on a lady who has been legally protesting
against an American base in this country. If they can try and abuse that
for their own ends, it will be even easier with an ID card - no judges to
fight against.

Paranoid about this? You bet I am as I know all-to-well how easy it is for
someone to sit at a computer terminal and deliberately delete details - and
once that is done, try proving who you are or that the details were even
there in the first place!

Brian G

"Brian G" wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote:
"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
.. .
In article ,
raden writes:

For those who have switched off from VE day Warplanes ...

http://www.pledgebank.com/no2id

I read the pledge the first couple of times as
"I will refuse to register for an ID card but only if 3,000,000
people will sign up [for an ID card]."

Also, I think there might be a problem scaling the page to
3,000,000 signatories...

Andrew Gabriel


I'm all for Photo and Finger Print ID Cards. It should be made
mandatory to carried your ID at all times, and detention or a spot
fine imposed if you're found without one.

What happens if you forget your wallet? Or just feel like wandering around
the beach on a nice hot hot day in just your bathers (nowhere to slip your
ID into) , and a rather officious PC plod decides to ask for your ID and
won't allow you to go beck to where your clothes are? It will happen, and
according to your statement, you're going to spend a little time in a cell
and probably end up with a criminal record just for 'forgetting'.

Won't happen? Can't happen, you bet it will!


Stop taking these points to the extreme. Of course there will be times when
carrying a card are impossible, but don't keep saying "it will come to the point
that" all the time. As I did state, if you can't produce a valid card within a
certain time frame, like you have to for documents for a vehicle now, then you
have commited an offence. No cop is going to stop you from going and getting
your card from a few metres away, or going to the house up the road for it.
You're just being silly now.

Just think of the implications if someone is arrested after breaking
in to a house. If they don't have an ID card on them, then it is
automatically an arrestible offence, and if they can't produce a
qualified ID card within a certain time frame, then another offence
is added to the original crime. If they produce a forged ID, then
the offence is automatically doubled or tripled.

What are the chances of someone being detected? My wife and I were asleep
when the b*****ds did us over - nobody detected them or even caught 'em.


That happens, and is an extremely harrowing experience for the victims, but if
the thugs had been caught, and couldn't positively identify themselves, then
their sentence would have been automatically set to a whole lot longer time in a
jail. But this crime still hasn't been solved, and the culprits still haven't
been brought to justice, but it isn't the only crime that still sits unsolved.


What a different society we'd all see, I think.

Yes, an Orwellian society where it is possible that a little jumped-up prat
can sit at a computer terminal and wipe all your records clean - leaving you
out on a limb trying to prove who you are.


Bull****!!! In the extreme again. I also stated that picture and finger print
cards are the only sure way of complete identification. How is wiping records
of you going to stop your card from proving who you really are. Your picture
and finger print would be on it.

Won't happen? Can't happen, you bet it will!

Run out of cash when shopping and nip into the local bank and when you're
there, you find that you have 'forgotten' your ID card - sorry sir, I can't
give YOUR own cash, but hang on a minute whilst I call the police, because
even though I recognise you from your many visits here, those are the rules!

Won't happen? Can't happen, you bet it will!

Just wait for a few years after they have been made compulsory and see how
many British citizens are designated 'non-persons' because of errors and
deliberate tampering of their details.

Won't happen? Can't happen, you bet it will -- especially if you are a
committed anti-war or or other type of protestor - just read how they
recently tried to swing an ASBO on a lady who has been legally protesting
against an American base in this country. If they can try and abuse that
for their own ends, it will be even easier with an ID card - no judges to
fight against.

Paranoid about this? You bet I am as I know all-to-well how easy it is for
someone to sit at a computer terminal and deliberately delete details - and
once that is done, try proving who you are or that the details were even
there in the first place!

Brian G



Weird. It all sounds like paranoia to me, I'm afraid. Or you really have
something to hide.

BigWallop wrote:

Bull****!!! In the extreme again. I also stated that picture and finger print
cards are the only sure way of complete identification. How is wiping records
of you going to stop your card from proving who you really are. Your picture
and finger print would be on it.

So if I make myself a card with picture and fingerprint then that proves
who I am does it?

What, does not link to the database? - "yeah sorry gov, been like that
for weeks - some pleb pushed a wrong button someplace".


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Fri, 20 May 2005 01:03:58 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:


"Brian G" wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote:
"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
.. .
In article ,
raden writes:

For those who have switched off from VE day Warplanes ...

http://www.pledgebank.com/no2id

I read the pledge the first couple of times as
"I will refuse to register for an ID card but only if 3,000,000
people will sign up [for an ID card]."

Also, I think there might be a problem scaling the page to
3,000,000 signatories...

Andrew Gabriel


I'm all for Photo and Finger Print ID Cards. It should be made
mandatory to carried your ID at all times, and detention or a spot
fine imposed if you're found without one.

What happens if you forget your wallet? Or just feel like wandering around
the beach on a nice hot hot day in just your bathers (nowhere to slip your
ID into) , and a rather officious PC plod decides to ask for your ID and
won't allow you to go beck to where your clothes are? It will happen, and
according to your statement, you're going to spend a little time in a cell
and probably end up with a criminal record just for 'forgetting'.

Won't happen? Can't happen, you bet it will!


Stop taking these points to the extreme. Of course there will be times when
carrying a card are impossible, but don't keep saying "it will come to the point
that" all the time. As I did state, if you can't produce a valid card within a
certain time frame, like you have to for documents for a vehicle now, then you
have commited an offence. No cop is going to stop you from going and getting
your card from a few metres away, or going to the house up the road for it.
You're just being silly now.

Just think of the implications if someone is arrested after breaking
in to a house. If they don't have an ID card on them, then it is
automatically an arrestible offence, and if they can't produce a
qualified ID card within a certain time frame, then another offence
is added to the original crime. If they produce a forged ID, then
the offence is automatically doubled or tripled.

What are the chances of someone being detected? My wife and I were asleep
when the b*****ds did us over - nobody detected them or even caught 'em.


That happens, and is an extremely harrowing experience for the victims, but if
the thugs had been caught, and couldn't positively identify themselves, then
their sentence would have been automatically set to a whole lot longer time in a
jail. But this crime still hasn't been solved, and the culprits still haven't
been brought to justice, but it isn't the only crime that still sits unsolved.


What a different society we'd all see, I think.

Yes, an Orwellian society where it is possible that a little jumped-up prat
can sit at a computer terminal and wipe all your records clean - leaving you
out on a limb trying to prove who you are.


Bull****!!! In the extreme again. I also stated that picture and finger print
cards are the only sure way of complete identification. How is wiping records
of you going to stop your card from proving who you really are. Your picture
and finger print would be on it.

Won't happen? Can't happen, you bet it will!

Run out of cash when shopping and nip into the local bank and when you're
there, you find that you have 'forgotten' your ID card - sorry sir, I can't
give YOUR own cash, but hang on a minute whilst I call the police, because
even though I recognise you from your many visits here, those are the rules!

Won't happen? Can't happen, you bet it will!

Just wait for a few years after they have been made compulsory and see how
many British citizens are designated 'non-persons' because of errors and
deliberate tampering of their details.

Won't happen? Can't happen, you bet it will -- especially if you are a
committed anti-war or or other type of protestor - just read how they
recently tried to swing an ASBO on a lady who has been legally protesting
against an American base in this country. If they can try and abuse that
for their own ends, it will be even easier with an ID card - no judges to
fight against.

Paranoid about this? You bet I am as I know all-to-well how easy it is for
someone to sit at a computer terminal and deliberately delete details - and
once that is done, try proving who you are or that the details were even
there in the first place!

Brian G



Weird. It all sounds like paranoia to me, I'm afraid. Or you really have
something to hide.

The best argument I have heard since this whole ID card farrago
started was given by the journalist Matthew Parris in an Any Questions
programme a couple of weeks ago. Here is the exchange between Dimbleby
and Parris. You can find the audio clip as well at the BBC Listen
Again web site. He spoke with passion and moved the audience to pretty
much overwhelming rejection of the ID card. Read all of it and ponder
why we are English, Scottish, or Welsh and what we will have left
after Blair and his Neo Labour party start charging us to exist in our
own country:

DIMBLEBY[CLAPPING] Matthew Parris.

PARRISI can find no rational arguments against identity cards and I
come down to this - I hate it, I hate it, I absolutely hate the idea
of having to carry around myself with myself something that identified
me on demand to a policeman or to anybody else, it just grates with
me, it just goes completely against the grain. To me it's somehow
antipathetical almost to being an Englishman, I just can't stand the
idea of ID cards. And I think that this bill, if it's brought in, it
will be like the casinos bill, it'll be very similar, it'll start out
with widespread but rather shallow acquiescence from most people and
once the details become clear opposition will harden and harden and
harden to it and it will be discovered that those that were in favour
of it weren't as in favour of it as those who are against it are
against it and the government will run into all kinds of difficulty
with it. I think they will drop it, I hope they will.

DIMBLEBYYou speak with passion about it, how do you distinguish in
your mind between the horror of the ID card and inevitability if you
drive of a driving licence or if you use the health service of a
national insurance card?

PARRISIf you want something, if you want a service, if you're asking
somebody or some agency of the state to give you something I can
understand why they may ask you to show some sort of identification in
return. But I don't see why to walk out in the street and to stand in
the sunshine and to breathe in my own country I should present anybody
with any kind of identification.

DIMBLEBYAnd if you could be persuaded - if you could be persuaded that
in that balance between freedom and security a foolproof ID card would
in the long term help protect you from a terrorist would that alter
your opinion or would the desire for the liberty be too potent?

PARRISI am so far from being persuaded either that the terrorist
threat in that form exists or that ID cards in the form in which the
government is proposing them would be proof against the terrorist
threat that I don't think I even need to weigh it in the balance.

[This transcript is on the BBC web site.]

MM

BigWallop wrote:
"Brian G" wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote:
"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
.. .
In article ,
raden writes:

For those who have switched off from VE day Warplanes ...

http://www.pledgebank.com/no2id

I read the pledge the first couple of times as
"I will refuse to register for an ID card but only if 3,000,000
people will sign up [for an ID card]."

Also, I think there might be a problem scaling the page to
3,000,000 signatories...

Andrew Gabriel


I'm all for Photo and Finger Print ID Cards. It should be made
mandatory to carried your ID at all times, and detention or a spot
fine imposed if you're found without one.

What happens if you forget your wallet? Or just feel like wandering
around the beach on a nice hot hot day in just your bathers (nowhere
to slip your ID into) , and a rather officious PC plod decides to
ask for your ID and won't allow you to go beck to where your clothes
are? It will happen, and according to your statement, you're going
to spend a little time in a cell and probably end up with a criminal
record just for 'forgetting'.

Won't happen? Can't happen, you bet it will!


Stop taking these points to the extreme. Of course there will be
times when carrying a card are impossible, but don't keep saying "it
will come to the point that" all the time. As I did state, if you
can't produce a valid card within a certain time frame, like you have
to for documents for a vehicle now, then you have commited an
offence. No cop is going to stop you from going and getting your
card from a few metres away, or going to the house up the road for
it. You're just being silly now.

Sorry BW, but I honestly believe that this is just the thin end of the
wedge. Let's take a step backwards to 'recent' introductions by the
previous Home Secretary:

1 Arrest and imprisonment of non-British nationals without charge or
trial.

2 When eventually the courts got their hands on the cases and the Home
Secretary was told to charge or release these people - what did he do?
Push legislation to say that ALL people within these fair Islands could be
held under 'House Arrest and tagged' again without charge - now that is NOT
an extreme statement but fact and where will it all end -- a police state I
believe?

Just think of the implications if someone is arrested after breaking
in to a house. If they don't have an ID card on them, then it is
automatically an arrestible offence, and if they can't produce a
qualified ID card within a certain time frame, then another offence
is added to the original crime. If they produce a forged ID, then
the offence is automatically doubled or tripled.

What are the chances of someone being detected? My wife and I were
asleep when the b*****ds did us over - nobody detected them or even
caught 'em.


That happens, and is an extremely harrowing experience for the
victims, but if the thugs had been caught, and couldn't positively
identify themselves, then their sentence would have been
automatically set to a whole lot longer time in a jail. But this
crime still hasn't been solved, and the culprits still haven't been
brought to justice, but it isn't the only crime that still sits
unsolved.

Ah! But would they have had a higher chance of being caught if the were
carrying ID cards? I doubt it.

What a different society we'd all see, I think.

Yes, an Orwellian society where it is possible that a little
jumped-up prat can sit at a computer terminal and wipe all your
records clean - leaving you out on a limb trying to prove who you
are.


Bull****!!! In the extreme again. I also stated that picture and
finger print cards are the only sure way of complete identification.
How is wiping records of you going to stop your card from proving who
you really are. Your picture and finger print would be on it.

Not really extreme is it if an ID card is to be the ONLY official means of
identity. At the moment, records are held on a number of 'scattered
databases' and it is possible that if they are 'wiped' off one, another
could prove your identity.

Imagine a FUTURE scenario whereby all records are held on a one and only
official central database, then what is the difficulty in changing your
photo and fingerprints on this central record. These changes can be done
now with passports, driving licences etc by the criminal fraternity - it
will be even easier to do so by the corrupt official in control of the
keyboard - irrespective of the bleatings that this will be impossible
security is paramount. It is done on a smaller scale with the credit/debit
cards, as fast as the banks come up with new security devices, the criminal
element is getting around them fairly easily.


Won't happen? Can't happen, you bet it will!

Snipped

Won't happen? Can't happen, you bet it will -- especially if you
are a committed anti-war or or other type of protestor - just read
how they recently tried to swing an ASBO on a lady who has been
legally protesting against an American base in this country. If
they can try and abuse that for their own ends, it will be even
easier with an ID card - no judges to fight against.

Paranoid about this? You bet I am as I know all-to-well how easy
it is for someone to sit at a computer terminal and deliberately
delete details - and once that is done, try proving who you are or
that the details were even there in the first place!

Weird. It all sounds like paranoia to me, I'm afraid. Or you really
have something to hide.

No BW, after fifty six years, I have nothing to hide. I just value the
freedom that I have to do whatever I want within the law and travel wherever
I want without having to prove my identity to all and sundry every few
miles - and yes you could say that it is paranoia because I have seen how
easy it is to take those freedoms away a little piece at a time, without the
masses realising it until its too late - and once you realise this, then
its already too late.

A question for you:

Did the introduction of ID cards stop illegal immigration, terrorist attacks
and crime in those countries who have introduced them?

Brian G

BigWallop wrote:

Stop taking these points to the extreme. Of course there will be
times when carrying a card are impossible, but don't keep saying
"it will come to the point that" all the time. As I did state,
if you can't produce a valid card within a certain time frame,
like you have to for documents for a vehicle now, then you have
commited an offence.

Oh, so they're going to issue 7 day 'producer' tickets then? That'll have
Al Quaeda trembling.....

"Brian G" wrote in message
...


Brian G

Why don't you use your name? Are you trying to hide something?

On Fri, 20 May 2005 09:15:33 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Brian G" wrote in message
...


Brian G

Why don't you use your name? Are you trying to hide something?

Anyone who uses his own name in these newsgroups is asking for
trouble. There are a bunch of nutters out there, and you can never be
sure that your personal safety is guaranteed any more. That's why more
and more people go ex-directory and hide everything they possibly can.
This is a nation of snoopers. We are the most watched society in the
Western world. People are willing, keen even, since we love a nice
dollop of Schadenfreude whenever we can get it, to denounce their
distant neighbours if their face doesn't fit. The situation is already
dire. I would grab myself a new moniker as quickly as poss, if I were
you. After all, why does it matter *who* you are? It's what we say
that counts.

MM

Mary Fisher wrote:
"Brian G" wrote in message
...


Brian G

Why don't you use your name? Are you trying to hide something?

Mary,

Brian G is my name, all I have done is withheld the last three letters of my
surname -as is my right at the moment to use any name that I want - how do I
know that YOUR name IS Mary Fisher?

As far as I am concerned, you could be a big hairy bloke using the keyboard
using a feminine name.

Brian G

On Thu, 19 May 2005 20:12:48 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:

Just think of the implications if someone is arrested after breaking in to a
house.

Well as things stand, they'd be arrested for burglary.

We don't have a problem with burglars being caught, then let loose when
they claim to be householders, we have a problem in _catching_ them. ID
cards will do nothing to help here.

The fundamental flaw of all "licensing" schemes is that they track the
law-abiding, not the miscreants.

The only people who might object to id cards are those who are either
illegal in this country or those who have something to hide!!!!
In one way or another we carry id cards now! either a driving licence or
credit/debit card so what's the objections?.,
Grumps


"raden" wrote in message
...

For those who have switched off from VE day Warplanes ...

http://www.pledgebank.com/no2id


--
geoff

"Grumps" wrote in message
...
The only people who might object to id cards are those who are either
illegal in this country or those who have something to hide!!!!
In one way or another we carry id cards now! either a driving licence or
credit/debit card so what's the objections?.,

Quite.

Grumpess.

Grumps

"Grumps" wrote:
The only people who might object to id cards are those who are either
illegal in this country or those who have something to hide!!!!
In one way or another we carry id cards now! either a driving licence or
credit/debit card so what's the objections?.,

Ask yourself this question. Would you let the government install a
GPS tracking system in your car* or on your person, so that they
would know where you were the majority of the time?

Read the proposed legislation. It gives the government and other
authorities rights to access to every instance of the ID being
checked (it isn't just a visual check). As more and more
transactions will require your ID to be checked, they will eventually
know where you are most of the time, and what you do with your
time . As a rule I don't have any truck with civil liberties nonsense,
but this is a privacy issue more than a liberty issue. This scheme
goes *way* beyond a simple ID card (which is what most people
think it is).

FWIW, I do think it will cut crime, but I don't even have a
supermarket loyalty card because I don't like people collecting data
on my shopping habits, so the potential abuses of the proposed ID
card scheme horrify me.

Just my 2p,
Al

*this is also planned, under the guise of monitoring speeding

Al Reynolds wrote:

Read the proposed legislation. It gives the government and other
authorities rights to access to every instance of the ID being
checked (it isn't just a visual check). As more and more
transactions will require your ID to be checked, they will
eventually know where you are most of the time, and what you do
with your time . As a rule I don't have any truck with civil liberties
nonsense, but this is a privacy issue more than a liberty issue. This
scheme goes *way* beyond a simple ID card (which is what
most people think it is).

Damned right. Within a few years you'll be swiping your ID to visit a
library, to draw money at the bank, to get on a bus. Private companies will
widely require them as part of a transaction, and link their data into the
statre systems.

The govt supercomputers will be able to map your movements, your friends and
your hobbies. Any govt agency, any social worker or tax inspector, any
friendly foreign govt or multi-national corporation, will be able to browse
your life like an episode of Big Brother, whether they're trying to catch
you or sell you soap powder.

This isn't crime prevention, the real crims & illegals will continue to
trade in cash or use false papers. It's the introduction of a subservient,
surveilled population of work-units, instead of a nation of free & sovereign
citizens.

Steve Walker wrote:

Damned right. Within a few years you'll be swiping your ID to visit a
library, to draw money at the bank, to get on a bus. Private companies will
widely require them as part of a transaction, and link their data into the
statre systems.

This (Merkin) clip sums up my objection to ID cards:
http://www.adcritic.com/interactive/view.php?id=5927

Lee
--
Email address is valid, but is unlikely to be read.

Lee wrote:
Steve Walker wrote:

Damned right. Within a few years you'll be swiping your ID to
visit a library, to draw money at the bank, to get on a bus. Private
companies will widely require them as part of a
transaction, and link their data into the statre systems.

This (Merkin) clip sums up my objection to ID cards:
http://www.adcritic.com/interactive/view.php?id=5927

fantastic - bookmarked!

"Lee" wrote in message
...
Steve Walker wrote:

Damned right. Within a few years you'll be swiping your ID to visit a
library, to draw money at the bank, to get on a bus. Private companies
will widely require them as part of a transaction, and link their data
into the statre systems.

This (Merkin) clip sums up my objection to ID cards:
http://www.adcritic.com/interactive/view.php?id=5927

I haven't looked at that but Americans have to have ID. So do very many
countries' citizens. You've probably visited some of them ... do you know
why they are?

Mary

Lee
--
Email address is valid, but is unlikely to be read.

On Thu, 19 May 2005 22:31:34 GMT, Lee
wrote:

Steve Walker wrote:

Damned right. Within a few years you'll be swiping your ID to visit a
library, to draw money at the bank, to get on a bus. Private companies will
widely require them as part of a transaction, and link their data into the
statre systems.

This (Merkin) clip sums up my objection to ID cards:
http://www.adcritic.com/interactive/view.php?id=5927

How big is this clip? I've been waiting for at least 2 minutes! I only
have dial-up (no BB out here in the sticks!)

MM

In message , Steve Walker
writes
Al Reynolds wrote:

Read the proposed legislation. It gives the government and other
authorities rights to access to every instance of the ID being
checked (it isn't just a visual check). As more and more
transactions will require your ID to be checked, they will
eventually know where you are most of the time, and what you do
with your time . As a rule I don't have any truck with civil liberties
nonsense, but this is a privacy issue more than a liberty issue. This
scheme goes *way* beyond a simple ID card (which is what
most people think it is).

Damned right. Within a few years you'll be swiping your ID to visit a
library, to draw money at the bank, to get on a bus. Private companies will
widely require them as part of a transaction, and link their data into the
statre systems.

The govt supercomputers will be able to map your movements, your friends and
your hobbies. Any govt agency, any social worker or tax inspector, any
friendly foreign govt or multi-national corporation, will be able to browse
your life like an episode of Big Brother, whether they're trying to catch
you or sell you soap powder.

This isn't crime prevention, the real crims & illegals will continue to
trade in cash or use false papers. It's the introduction of a subservient,
surveilled population of work-units, instead of a nation of free & sovereign
citizens.

I take it you're signing up then

--
geoff

raden wrote:
In message , Steve Walker
writes

This isn't crime prevention, the real crims & illegals will
continue to trade in cash or use false papers. It's the
introduction of a subservient, surveilled population of
work-units, instead of a nation of free & sovereign citizens.

I take it you're signing up then

Absolutely, I'll be first in line... )

Al Reynolds wrote:

FWIW, I do think it will cut crime, but I don't even have a
supermarket loyalty card because I don't like people collecting data
on my shopping habits, so the potential abuses of the proposed ID
card scheme horrify me.


Ah, but it's worth it when Tesco decide you haven't visited the wine &
spirits aisle often enough and send you a personalised =A35 voucher.

MBQ

Grumps wrote:
The only people who might object to id cards are those who are
either illegal in this country or those who have something to
hide!!!!

I am neither, and I resent your offensive insinuations. I simply wish to
enjoy my traditional British birthright of privacy, without being tracked,
tagged and surveilled by an unaccountable army of public and commercial
'security services'.

I propose to install cctv in your home, grumps. I'm going to wire it to
every room, so that we can watch you night and day. You will only object to
this if you are either illegal in this country or have something to hide...

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
Grumps wrote:
The only people who might object to id cards are those who are
either illegal in this country or those who have something to
hide!!!!

I am neither, and I resent your offensive insinuations. I simply wish to
enjoy my traditional British birthright of privacy,

er-birthright?

The only birthright any person has is that of being breast fed.

er - British?

What do you think your birthright would have been before the union?

without being tracked, tagged and surveilled by an unaccountable army of
public and commercial 'security services'.

Oh come on!

I propose to install cctv in your home, grumps. I'm going to wire it to
every room, so that we can watch you night and day. You will only object
to this if you are either illegal in this country or have something to
hide...

It wouldn't bother me. You'd get bored out of you paranoid mind watching it.
Can you imagine the result of your fears? Half the population watching the
other half 24/7?

Who watches the watchers? Not Blunkett.

Mary

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...

What do you think your birthright would have been before the union?

without being tracked, tagged and surveilled by an unaccountable army of
public and commercial 'security services'.

Oh come on!

It wouldn't bother me. You'd get bored out of you paranoid mind watching
it. Can you imagine the result of your fears? Half the population watching
the other half 24/7?

Who watches the watchers? Not Blunkett.

Mary


1 to 1 might be difficult, but East Germany got up to 1 to 6.5
http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/b...p?story=532434
Published : 18 June 2004


"in the snooper's state of East Germany, the Stasi secret police employed
one informer for every 6.5 citizens. Its agents monitored every aspect of
..."

"Toby Sleigh" wrote in message
...

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...

What do you think your birthright would have been before the union?

without being tracked, tagged and surveilled by an unaccountable army of
public and commercial 'security services'.

Oh come on!

It wouldn't bother me. You'd get bored out of you paranoid mind watching
it. Can you imagine the result of your fears? Half the population
watching the other half 24/7?

Who watches the watchers? Not Blunkett.

Mary


1 to 1 might be difficult, but East Germany got up to 1 to 6.5
http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/b...p?story=532434
Published : 18 June 2004


"in the snooper's state of East Germany, the Stasi secret police employed
one informer for every 6.5 citizens. Its agents monitored every aspect of
.."

I don't read newspapers even on their issue date :-)

But it would ensure full employment,the idea gets better all the time G

Mary

"Toby Sleigh" wrote in message
...
Who watches the watchers? Not Blunkett.

1 to 1 might be difficult, but East Germany got up to 1 to 6.5
http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/b...p?story=532434
Published : 18 June 2004

"in the snooper's state of East Germany, the Stasi secret police employed
one informer for every 6.5 citizens. Its agents monitored every aspect of
.."

But they had crap computers. Okay so do our government but that could be
dealt with. With modern techniques it should be possible to monitor
everybody on perhaps a 100:1 ratio.

As most of us have mobile phones our location is already usually known to
800m or so and this will come down significantly with the future GPS equiped
phones.

Think I'll move to the Isle of Man.

In message , Toby Sleigh
writes

Who watches the watchers? Not Blunkett.

Mary


1 to 1 might be difficult, but East Germany got up to 1 to 6.5
http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/b...p?story=532434
Published : 18 June 2004


"in the snooper's state of East Germany, the Stasi secret police employed
one informer for every 6.5 citizens. Its agents monitored every aspect of
.."

T'would make a significant dent in the unemployment figures

--
geoff

Mary Fisher wrote:
"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
Grumps wrote:
The only people who might object to id cards are those who are
either illegal in this country or those who have something to
hide!!!!

I am neither, and I resent your offensive insinuations. I simply
wish to enjoy my traditional British birthright of privacy,

er-birthright?

The only birthright any person has is that of being breast fed.

er - British?

What do you think your birthright would have been before the union?

without being tracked, tagged and surveilled by an unaccountable
army of public and commercial 'security services'.

Oh come on!

Mary, you are tracked now, you cannot go onto a major motorway or road
without being 'logged' by cameras that can read your number plate AND take a
very good photo of the driver and front seat passenger. And when they
ultimately fit the 'little black box' into your car under the guise of
'paying for the road you use' then they will be able to track you on every
journey right down to the time that you got into the car and then got out
again.

BTW, if you have a mobile phone, you can be tracked by GPS to within a few
metres - even with it turned off.

I propose to install cctv in your home, grumps. I'm going to wire
it to every room, so that we can watch you night and day. You will
only object to this if you are either illegal in this country or
have something to hide...

It wouldn't bother me. You'd get bored out of you paranoid mind
watching it. Can you imagine the result of your fears? Half the
population watching the other half 24/7?

That is exactly what will happen - you will be constantly looking over your
shoulder to see who is watching or following you.

Who watches the watchers? Not Blunkett.

There will be no need, a climate of fear will have been instilled and the
population will watch each other whilst the likes of Blunkett and Clark can
sleep safely in their beds surrounded by all the trappings of the pampered.


Brian G